15 Jan
2013
15 Jan
'13
1:47 p.m.
I encourage everyone to read through the letters and
especially the
affidavit to see the absolute criminality of these vultures. I am
continuing to upload more material as I have time, but the basic story is
there.
The court system was absolutely useless, as were the police and sheriff.
I am having to sue for conversion, fraud, racketeering, unjust enrichment,
and probably other charges as I continue my research.
I am here to tell you right now: Anyone on the receiving end of my stolen
property is going to be entangled in this mess one way or another.
Therefore, my suggestion to you is that YOU SHOULD NOT BID ON OR BUY
ANYTHING FROM TRI-VALLEY RECYCLING IN STOCKTON, CALIFORNIA. If you do end
up with my stuff, you will become a part of the lawsuit in some way.
My interpretation is: tough noogies.
You spent half a year not paying bills or trying in any possible way to
relocate your belongings. It was excuse after excuse after excuse followed
by backlash. If you considered these computers so valueable you should of
been putting a LOT more effort into cramming it into a storage locker or a
spare bedroom.
Up here in Canada (I guess that's the key phrase because who knows just how
much different the laws are but at least up here it's nationally accepted
that....)if you don't pay the rent and you're that far due you can forget
about whatever you left there. The landlord can switch the locks and now
claim it as his own and the courts will laugh you out the door.
Just because you decided to play lazy does not mean that we can't bid in
fear of a pretty weak court case. If anything I advocate for more people to
bid on it because we at least know it came from a reputable person.
15 Jan
15 Jan
2:46 p.m.
I lost over 10,000 5.25" floppy disks from a storage locker in Ottawa that way :(
Yes, in this area, they chop the lock if you're even 24 hours late, no excuses.If you
have been a long time customer you might get 72 hours, if you're lucky.
From his last message I'd say he does have a point
on his side though,if the owner agreed to an arrangement then suddenly turned around and
did this,then he has a case.
But I also agree with other posters, he should have
sold some of the collectionin order to save the rest of it, rather than lose it all, no
matter who was right.
Also agree with the comments here, there are tons of collectors, the postershould have
been actively pursuing borrowing space from others, loaning,trading, etc.
This was let go far too long. Although I do hope he gets most of it back.
Dan.
From: ball.of.john at gmail.com
To: cctalk at classiccmp.org
Subject: Re: Vintage Computer Festival Archvies STOLEN by Tri-Valley
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2013 10:47:47 -0800
I encourage everyone to read through the letters
and especially the
affidavit to see the absolute criminality of these vultures. I am
continuing to upload more material as I have time, but the basic story is
there.
The court system was absolutely useless, as were the police and sheriff.
I am having to sue for conversion, fraud, racketeering, unjust enrichment,
and probably other charges as I continue my research.
I am here to tell you right now: Anyone on the receiving end of my stolen
property is going to be entangled in this mess one way or another.
Therefore, my suggestion to you is that YOU SHOULD NOT BID ON OR BUY
ANYTHING FROM TRI-VALLEY RECYCLING IN STOCKTON, CALIFORNIA. If you do end
up with my stuff, you will become a part of the lawsuit in some way.
My interpretation is: tough noogies.
You spent half a year not paying bills or trying in any possible way to
relocate your belongings. It was excuse after excuse after excuse followed
by backlash. If you considered these computers so valueable you should of
been putting a LOT more effort into cramming it into a storage locker or a
spare bedroom.
Up here in Canada (I guess that's the key phrase because who knows just how
much different the laws are but at least up here it's nationally accepted
that....)if you don't pay the rent and you're that far due you can forget
about whatever you left there. The landlord can switch the locks and now
claim it as his own and the courts will laugh you out the door.
Just because you decided to play lazy does not mean that we can't bid in
fear of a pretty weak court case. If anything I advocate for more people to
bid on it because we at least know it came from a reputable person.
4:02 p.m.
On Jan 15, 2013, at 2:46 PM, Dan Gahlinger <dgahling at hotmail.com> wrote:
But I also agree with other posters, he should have
sold some of the collectionin order to save the rest of it, rather than lose it all, no
matter who was right.
Didn't Sellam try to do exactly that? He posted a message here a while ago offering to
sell anything in his collection or maybe just things he had duplicates of. In any case, I
think he *did* try to sell things to raise money. Maybe there just weren't enough
willing buyers.
8:15 p.m.
I didnt know anything about the situation until his recent email,and I bet a lot of other
list members are in the same situation,
I certainly would have bought some items if we had
can't say what caused that glitch if it was posted to the list previously....
From: dbetz at xlisper.com
Subject: Re: Vintage Computer Festival Archvies STOLEN by Tri-Valley
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2013 16:02:30 -0500
To: cctalk at classiccmp.org
On Jan 15, 2013, at 2:46 PM, Dan Gahlinger <dgahling at hotmail.com> wrote:
But I also agree with other posters, he should
have sold some of the collectionin order to save the rest of it, rather than lose it all,
no matter who was right.
Didn't Sellam try to do exactly that? He posted a message here a while ago offering
to sell anything in his collection or maybe just things he had duplicates of. In any case,
I think he *did* try to sell things to raise money. Maybe there just weren't enough
willing buyers.
4:13 p.m.
Are some people here suffering from short term memory loss?! A month
and a half ago (12/1/2012) Sellam posted to cctalk that he was selling
some of his collection:
"The Vintage Computer Festival is currently securing funding for
operations and storage of the VCF Archives for the next 6 months. As
such, the VCF is conducting a limited sale of select items of the VCF
Archives."
Cheers,
Bryan
On 1/15/2013 2:46 PM, Dan Gahlinger wrote:
I lost over 10,000 5.25" floppy disks from a
storage locker in Ottawa that way :(
Yes, in this area, they chop the lock if you're even 24 hours late, no excuses.If you
have been a long time customer you might get 72 hours, if you're lucky.
From his last message I'd say he does have a
point on his side though,if the owner agreed to an arrangement then suddenly turned around
and did this,then he has a case.
But I also agree with other posters, he should
have sold some of the collectionin order to save the rest of it, rather than lose it all,
no matter who was right.
Also agree with the comments here, there are tons of collectors, the postershould have
been actively pursuing borrowing space from others, loaning,trading, etc.
This was let go far too long. Although I do hope he gets most of it back.
Dan.
From: ball.of.john at gmail.com
To: cctalk at classiccmp.org
Subject: Re: Vintage Computer Festival Archvies STOLEN by Tri-Valley
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2013 10:47:47 -0800
I encourage everyone to read through the letters
and especially the
affidavit to see the absolute criminality of these vultures. I am
continuing to upload more material as I have time, but the basic story is
there.
The court system was absolutely useless, as were the police and sheriff.
I am having to sue for conversion, fraud, racketeering, unjust enrichment,
and probably other charges as I continue my research.
I am here to tell you right now: Anyone on the receiving end of my stolen
property is going to be entangled in this mess one way or another.
Therefore, my suggestion to you is that YOU SHOULD NOT BID ON OR BUY
ANYTHING FROM TRI-VALLEY RECYCLING IN STOCKTON, CALIFORNIA. If you do end
up with my stuff, you will become a part of the lawsuit in some way.
My
interpretation is: tough noogies.
You spent half a year not paying bills or trying in any possible way to
relocate your belongings. It was excuse after excuse after excuse followed
by backlash. If you considered these computers so valueable you should of
been putting a LOT more effort into cramming it into a storage locker or a
spare bedroom.
Up here in Canada (I guess that's the key phrase because who knows just how
much different the laws are but at least up here it's nationally accepted
that....)if you don't pay the rent and you're that far due you can forget
about whatever you left there. The landlord can switch the locks and now
claim it as his own and the courts will laugh you out the door.
Just because you decided to play lazy does not mean that we can't bid in
fear of a pretty weak court case. If anything I advocate for more people to
bid on it because we at least know it came from a reputable person.
3:20 p.m.
On Tue, 15 Jan 2013, John Ball wrote:
by backlash. If you considered these computers so
valueable you should of
been putting a LOT more effort into cramming it into a storage locker or a
spare bedroom.
spare bedroom??!?
Can I move into your house?
Maybe put my HOUSE into one of your spare bedrooms?
Just the stuff that he hauled out from my closing office
would fill three normal "spare bedroom"s.
about whatever you left there. The landlord can switch
the locks and now
claim it as his own and the courts will laugh you out the door.
Just because you decided to play lazy does not mean that we can't bid in
fear of a pretty weak court case. If anything I advocate for more people to
bid on it because we at least know it came from a reputable person.
He is contesting the "conversion", and making notice that he
contends that it is "STOLEN" merchandise. Knowingly accepting
stolen merchandise (if he should prevail) is, indeed, a crime.
Accepting stolen merchandise UNknowingly is not a crime. However,
if a court rules that it was stolen, then it must be returned
to its rightful owner. Any purchaser who UNknowingly accepted
the stolen merchandise is not entitled to compensation for the
return to the rightful owner, and can merely attempt to collect
back from the seller.
OTOH, if it were to get purchased by a shill, he might be able
to regain it.
--
Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin at xenosoft.com
6:20 p.m.
Accepting stolen merchandise UNknowingly is not a
crime. However,
if a court rules that it was stolen, then it must be returned
to its rightful owner. Any purchaser who UNknowingly accepted
the stolen merchandise is not entitled to compensation for the
return to the rightful owner, and can merely attempt to collect
back from the seller.
FWIW, when my storage unit was burgled, one of the items turned up at a
local pawn shop. The detective (this is Southern California) said the
arrangement was that the pawn shop could not profit from the arrangement,
but that they were entitled to the cost they paid to receive the item. I
paid them that cost, got the item back, and charged it to the burglary
insurance (who promptly denied it, but that's a whole other story).
--
------------------------------------ personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ --
Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckaiser at floodgap.com
-- This message will self-destruct in five seconds. Good luck, Jim. -- M:I ----
3:43 p.m.
John Ball wrote:
Up here in Canada (I guess that's the key phrase
because who knows
just how much different the laws are but at least up here it's
nationally accepted that....)if you don't pay the rent and you're that
far due you can forget about whatever you left there. The landlord can
switch the locks and now claim it as his own and the courts will laugh
you out the door.
In the US this is a matter of state law, which of course varies from
state to state. In California, the landlord can NOT take simply
possession of the tenant's belongings. The eviction process involves
having the Sheriff seize the tenant's belongings. If the property is
believed to be worth more than $700, it has to be sold at a public sale
(auction) at a time and place published in a general circulation
newspaper. I rather doubt that eBay qualifies. See California Civil
Code section 1980-1991, especially section 1988.
If the landlord takes possession of the belongings or disposes of them
in a different manner than prescribed by law, it is theft, conversion,
and/or unjust enrichment.
[These are my personal opinions, which are worth exactly what you've
paid for them. I am not a lawyer, and this isn't legal advice.]//
5:17 p.m.
On Jan 15, 2013, at 12:43 PM, Eric Smith <eric at brouhaha.com> wrote:
John Ball wrote:
Thanks Eric, good this is good to know. The question then becomes one of if the procedure
was followed or not. It sounds as if it could have been without Sellam's knowledge.
Is there a requirement to notify the tenant if not physically present on the property?
How long does the process take? While it isn't stated, would think that the recycler
was able to satisfy the police that they had purchased the contents of the building
legally.
Zane
Up here in Canada (I guess that's the key
phrase because who knows just how much different the laws are but at least up here
it's nationally accepted that....)if you don't pay the rent and you're that
far due you can forget about whatever you left there. The landlord can switch the locks
and now claim it as his own and the courts will laugh you out the door.
In the US this is a matter of state law, which of course varies from state to state. In
California, the landlord can NOT take simply possession of the tenant's belongings.
The eviction process involves having the Sheriff seize the tenant's belongings. If
the property is believed to be worth more than $700, it has to be sold at a public sale
(auction) at a time and place published in a general circulation newspaper. I rather
doubt that eBay qualifies. See California Civil Code section 1980-1991, especially section
1988.
If the landlord takes possession of the belongings or disposes of them in a different
manner than prescribed by law, it is theft, conversion, and/or unjust enrichment.
[These are my personal opinions, which are worth exactly what you've paid for them. I
am not a lawyer, and this isn't legal advice.]//
5:54 p.m.
I wrote:
In the US this is a matter of state law, which of
course varies from
state to state. In California, the landlord can NOT take simply
possession of the tenant's belongings. The eviction process involves
having the Sheriff seize the tenant's belongings. If the property is
believed to be worth more than $700, it has to be sold at a public
sale (auction) at a time and place published in a general circulation
newspaper. I rather doubt that eBay qualifies. See California Civil
Code section 1980-1991, especially section 1988.
Someone pointed out to me off-list that this was a commercial eviction,
so the rules aren't exactly the same. However, I'm pretty sure that
it's still the case that the landlord can't just take possession of the
stuff, must hold an auction, and post a legal notice of the auction
place and time. The landlord doesn't wind up with ownership of any of
the stuff unless he wins it at auction. Also, the landlord can't dribble
it out to auction a little bit at a time.
But as I said before, I am not a lawyer.
Eric
4184
days inactive
4185
days old
9 comments
8 participants
participants (8)
-
ball.of.john＠gmail.com -
bryan.pope＠comcast.net -
cisin＠xenosoft.com -
dbetz＠xlisper.com -
dgahling＠hotmail.com -
eric＠brouhaha.com -
healyzh＠aracnet.com -
spectre＠floodgap.com