4 Feb
2015
4 Feb
'15
1:43 p.m.
Hi,
Having gotten the 11/34 rig up to a good spec, I'm sufficiently excited
to tackle the 11/45. It's been powered off since 2004, when I briefly
turned it on only to find a wild jumble of lights and that none of the
front panel switches or knobs did anything to the lights. Couldn't get it
to run or deposit values or *anything*. I therefore assumed it was badly
broken and so left it until now. It has stayed perfectly high and dry but
has gone to extremes in temperature as the storage isn't climate controlled
(this is in western Pennsylvania). And there's a lot of dust.
I'm not going for museum perfection, but want it to be very presentable
(lobbying to keep it as my 'art' in the living room long term if it's
presentable enough :) and functional.
So I'm looking for tips on how to go about it? I was thinking:
1) Truck machine to living room, note positions of all wires / boards.
Photograph, remove and clean dust from them. Place on antistatic bench.
2) Thoroughly blow out dust and debris, vacuum backplane and wipe down
chassis and wires with damp cloth.
3) Map out desired hardware config: I have available two Fujitsu 160 disks,
three Fujitsu M2333K disks and two Fujitsu M2372K disks. I need to decide
how to rack and cable at least two, possibly up to four of them as the 8"
ones have no mounting hardware. Operational status on all is "hopeful." I
have two Emulex SC21s and an SC41 as well as an unmarked Xylogics Unibus
SMD board. I'm also tempted to mount an RX02 drive as I have a controller
and quite a mountain of floppies supposedly containing weird old stuff. I
need to source an ethernet board and whatever cabling / bulkhead stuff
follows. DZ11, its dist panel and a Diablo 630 printer would be nice, too.
4) This would also be a good time to broach the subject of whether or not
the capacitors need special love, or if that just adds more risk of
destroying something. Those familiar, please chime in as the archive is
currently missing so I can't refer to the recent threads on this subject.
Datapoint: I didn't mess at all with power supply / caps on my 11/34, which
was stored right beside the '45 for the same timespan and it's running
great now. Datapoint 2: with my amateur electronics skills / status,
there's admittedly some risk just having me poking around in there,
"learning" things :-\ Plus, I'm afraid of death from esoteric high
voltages that I hear are present in these old power supplies. Is the 11/45
one of them? In a nutshell, this analog / power stuff is FAR FROM my
forte; some hand-holding here would be most appreciated.
5) Insert an expendable Unibus module and power up; check & tune power. I
need direction on how to go about this. Also, the bottom H742A power
chassis isn't completely populated. Not sure if that's acceptable, on
purpose or bad.
6) Reassemble, tidying up issues like missing / loose screws, rubbing
cables, etc. along the way.
7) rt, 2.11BSD, rsx, rsts/e! (mostly via vtserver - I have a tu10 that I
could get in on this deal, but its roller rubber has turned into goo and
two cabinets in the living room is more than "pushing it." Later date on
that puppy. )
Current module config starting from front of cabinet (yes, there are some
gaps and M9200 jumpers I don't mention, too):
M9301 + M787
M8114
M8115
M8112
M8113
M8100
M8101
M8102
M8103
M8104
M8105
M8106
M8108
M8107
M8109
M8110
g401
M7800 + M9200 jumper
H214
G231
G110
H214
G231
G110
H214
G231
G110
Unibus cable runs out to third party external memory chassis, "Monolithic
Systems Corp" Type MO v11/PDP11 P/N 300-0058-000, which is three quarters
populated. If this memory is broken, I'm planning to use an M7891 instead
(is that OK?).
No Unibus termination after that. Is that weird / bad?
Does this current config seem sound? Is there a problem obvious just from
this description that would account for the unresponsive front panel?
Here's the power supply situation: There are two H742A power chassis. Top
contains h744, h744, h744, h744, h745. Bottom contains H745, H746, open,
H744, open.
big thx!
jake
4 Feb
4 Feb
2:03 p.m.
4) This would also be a good time to broach the subject of whether or not
the capacitors need special love, or if that just adds more risk of
destroying something. Those familiar, please chime in as the archive is
My 11/45 which was working last year until I moved house (I haven't reassembled
it yet, or attempted to undo any damage caused by the movers) still has all the
original capacitors in the PSU.
I find this 'witch hunt' of capacitors curious. Yes, they do fail, but they are
not the
only, or even most comon, thing to so so.
BUT!
There is a capacitor in the front section of the H742 PSU -- not in the regulator
'bricks' that, if it fails, causes ACLO and DCLO to pulse at power line frequency
(or
probsbly twice that frequency). This really gives the 11/45 headaches, the microcode
keeps on trying to handle the power failure and won't let you do anything else. So
while
I would not replace any capacitors 'on spec' I would check that the ACLO and DCLO
lines
are doing the right things.
currently missing so I can't refer to the recent
threads on this subject.
Datapoint: I didn't mess at all with power supply / caps on my 11/34, which
was stored right beside the '45 for the same timespan and it's running
great now. Datapoint 2: with my amateur electronics skills / status,
there's admittedly some risk just having me poking around in there,
"learning" things :-\ Plus, I'm afraid of death from esoteric high
voltages that I hear are present in these old power supplies. Is the 11/45
one of them? In a nutshell, this analog / power stuff is FAR FROM my
The 11/45 PSU is fairly friendly. There is, of course, mains inside, but there is a big
(looks to be about 1000VA) transformer in the front section, giving out lots of
30V AC outputs. The regulator bricks are fed from 30V, so there are no lethal voltages
inside. But given that it's 30V at 10's of amps, there is enough power there to do
damage.
I have had transistors blown off the PCB when I had a nasty failure in one of the
regulator
units.
forte; some hand-holding here would be most
appreciated.
I still can't comprehend how anyone can properly understand digital electronics and
not
understand anlogue. But anyway..
The 11/45 power supply is a bit odd. Firstly there are multiple 5V rails, the regulators
could supply 25A each, so IIRC there are 2 for the CPU, one for the FPU (which I think
you
have), one for the Unibus backplanes, etc. The upper PSU is supposed to be controlled by
the console switch, it powers the CPU and peripherals. The lower run is supposed to run
all the time, it powers the memory. No, it is not a problem if the lower PSU has empty
slots,
these were for regulators for the MOS or bipolar memory in the CPU backplane. Don't
assume something has been taken out.
Another nasty... The front section of the PSU supplies ACLO, DCLO, LTC (line time clock)
and
+15V. Or at least the upper PSU does. On the lower one, the +15V line is in fact grounded
so
what is called 'ground' on that PSU becomes -15V. You need to look carefully at
all the diagrams
in the printset.
The PSU should be checked with dummy loads (6V bulbs, for example), bearing in mind that
with
several 5V lines you need to check all of them.
-tony
4:33 p.m.
-----Original Message-----
From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of tony
duell
Sent: 04 February 2015 19:03
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: RE: It's time to restore the 11/45.
they
are not
4) This would also be a good time to broach the subject of whether or
not the capacitors need special love, or if that just adds more risk
of destroying something. Those familiar, please chime in as the
archive is
My 11/45 which was working last year until I moved house (I haven't
reassembled it yet, or attempted to undo any damage caused by the movers)
still has all the original capacitors in the PSU.
I find this 'witch hunt' of capacitors curious. Yes, they do fail, but the only, or even most comon, thing to so so.
BUT!
There is a capacitor in the front section of the H742 PSU -- not in the
regulator
'bricks' that, if it fails, causes ACLO and
DCLO to pulse at power line
frequency
(or probsbly twice that frequency). This really gives
the 11/45 headaches,
the
microcode keeps on trying to handle the power failure
and won't let you do
anything else. So while I would not replace any capacitors 'on spec' I
would
check that the ACLO and DCLO lines are doing the right
things.
> currently missing so I can't refer to the recent threads on this
subject.
> Datapoint: I didn't mess at all with power
supply / caps on my 11/34,
which
> was stored right beside the '45 for the same
timespan and it's running
> great now. Datapoint 2: with my amateur electronics skills / status,
> there's admittedly some risk just having me poking around in there,
> "learning" things :-\ Plus, I'm afraid of death from esoteric high
> voltages that I hear are present in these old power supplies. Is the
11/45
one of them?
In a nutshell, this analog / power stuff is FAR FROM my
The 11/45 PSU is fairly friendly. There is, of course, mains inside, but big
(looks to be about 1000VA) transformer in the front section, giving out
lots of
30V AC outputs. The regulator bricks are fed from 30V,
so there are no
lethal
voltages
inside. But given that it's 30V at 10's of amps, there is enough power
there to
do damage.
I have had transistors blown off the PCB when I had a nasty failure in one
of the
regulator
units.
Interesting. I bought an 11/45 about a year ago which I still need to look
at. I have been wondering about the PSU in particular and how to test it
before attempting to power the machine.
I am guessing I could test the transformer part fairly easily on its own,
without any of the bricks, and without loading it, just checking that the
outputs are all 30VAC. I haven't looked yet, but is it just a big
transformer?
Presumably I can then test each brick individually, with a suitable dummy
load, and to make testing on the bench simpler, I could feed it 30VAC from
my Variac rather than have to hulk the huge transformer part around.
Is there anything bad about my plan? (There must be, it is too simple :-))
Regards
Rob
6:52 p.m.
My NASA EE buddy recommended working up an appropriate load from regular
household lightbulbs. They won't light, naturally, but you can dial in
your load by simply choosing certain wattages and doing the math.
On Wed, Feb 4, 2015 at 4:33 PM, Robert Jarratt <robert.jarratt at ntlworld.com>
wrote:
there is
a
-----Original
Message-----
From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of tony
duell
Sent: 04 February 2015 19:03
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: RE: It's time to restore the 11/45.
they are not
4) This would also be a good time to broach the subject of whether or
not the capacitors need special love, or if that just adds more risk
of destroying something. Those familiar, please chime in as the
archive is
My 11/45 which was working last year until I moved house (I haven't
reassembled it yet, or attempted to undo any damage caused by the movers)
still has all the original capacitors in the PSU.
I find this 'witch hunt' of capacitors curious. Yes, they do fail, but the only, or even most comon, thing to so so.
BUT!
There is a capacitor in the front section of the H742 PSU -- not in the
regulator
'bricks' that, if it fails, causes ACLO
and DCLO to pulse at power line
frequency
(or probsbly twice that frequency). This really
gives the 11/45
headaches,
the
microcode keeps on trying to handle the power
failure and won't let you
do
anything else. So while I would not replace any
capacitors 'on spec' I
would
check that the ACLO and DCLO lines are doing the
right things.
> currently missing so I can't refer to the recent threads on this
subject.
> Datapoint: I didn't mess at all with
power supply / caps on my 11/34,
which
> was stored right beside the '45 for the
same timespan and it's running
> great now. Datapoint 2: with my amateur electronics skills / status,
> there's admittedly some risk just having me poking around in there,
> "learning" things :-\ Plus, I'm afraid of death from esoteric high
> voltages that I hear are present in these old power supplies. Is the
11/45
one of
them? In a nutshell, this analog / power stuff is FAR FROM my
The 11/45 PSU is fairly friendly. There is, of course, mains inside, but big
(looks to be about 1000VA) transformer in the front section, giving out
lots of
30V AC outputs. The regulator bricks are fed from
30V, so there are no
lethal
voltages
inside. But given that it's 30V at 10's of amps, there is enough power
there to
do damage.
I have had transistors blown off the PCB when I had a nasty failure in
one
of the
regulator
units.
Interesting. I bought an 11/45 about a year ago which I still need to look
at. I have been wondering about the PSU in particular and how to test it
before attempting to power the machine.
I am guessing I could test the transformer part fairly easily on its own,
without any of the bricks, and without loading it, just checking that the
outputs are all 30VAC. I haven't looked yet, but is it just a big
transformer?
Presumably I can then test each brick individually, with a suitable dummy
load, and to make testing on the bench simpler, I could feed it 30VAC from
my Variac rather than have to hulk the huge transformer part around.
Is there anything bad about my plan? (There must be, it is too simple :-))
Regards
Rob
5 Feb
5 Feb
1:08 a.m.
Interesting. I bought an 11/45 about a year ago which
I still need to look
at. I have been wondering about the PSU in particular and how to test it
before attempting to power the machine.
I am guessing I could test the transformer part fairly easily on its own,
without any of the bricks, and without loading it, just checking that the
outputs are all 30VAC. I haven't looked yet, but is it just a big
transformer?
The front section of the PSU is the big mains transformer and a PCB
with the +15V supply, ACLO, DCLO, LTC circuitry on it. You can
disconnect this and test the transformer on its own. For 230V
mains the 115V fans (throught the PSU and CPU) run off the
transformer primary as an autotransformer.
Presumably I can then test each brick individually, with a suitable dummy
load, and to make testing on the bench simpler, I could feed it 30VAC from
You can. The pinouts are not the same in all cases (but are in the printset and
IIRC on the bricks themselves). The -15V brick needs a +15V DC input as well,
but that is at minimal current and not hard to provide.
my Variac rather than have to hulk the huge
transformer part around.
Bad idea. A plain Variac does not provide isolation from the mains so you
are actually now working on mains-connected circuitry (read : dangerous and
you can't clip a 'scope on it). The input voltage is not that cricitcal (I think
it can
be as low as 20V) and doesn't have to be AC. I think 30V DC from a bench supply
would work.
One very useful thing I made up was a cable with an 8 pin mate-n-lock
connector on each end. I use it to run the bricks outside the PSU chassis
-- although they lose the cooling fan blast, they do not overheat for short
periods on dummy load (they are switching regulators anyway, so they run
quite cool). I then sit the brick I am testing on top of the CPU (pulled out
from the rack). Of course the problem is finding the
connectors.
Is there anything bad about my plan? (There must be, it is too simple :-))
See above...
-tony
4 Feb
4 Feb
10 p.m.
On 02/04/2015 12:43 PM, Jacob Ritorto wrote:
Hi,
Having gotten the 11/34 rig up to a good spec, I'm sufficiently excited
to tackle the 11/45. It's been powered off since 2004, when I briefly
turned it on only to find a wild jumble of lights and that none of the
front panel switches or knobs did anything to the lights. Couldn't get it
to run or deposit values or *anything*. I therefore assumed it was badly
broken and so left it until now. It has stayed perfectly high and dry but
has gone to extremes in temperature as the storage isn't climate controlled
(this is in western Pennsylvania). And there's a lot of dust.
The 11/45 has a row of little step-down regulator modules,
all plugged in with
those horrible AMP Mate-n-Lock connectors. We often had bad
contacts on
those and they would sometimes burn the connector housings
or char the
ends of the wires. That was all about 1980, I can't imagine
they've improved
with age. I think you may have more trouble with these than
anything else
in the machine.
You will probably also have problems with all the fans. I
replaced the lights in
our console with LEDs.
As for a dead console, if the ACOK signal is indicating "not
ok" then the console
probably will be frozen.
Jon
10:08 p.m.
On Wed, Feb 4, 2015 at 10:00 PM, Jon Elson <elson at pico-systems.com> wrote:
The 11/45 has a row of little step-down regulator modules, all plugged in
with
those horrible AMP Mate-n-Lock connectors. We often had bad contacts on
those and they would sometimes burn the connector housings or char the
ends of the wires. That was all about 1980, I can't imagine they've
improved
with age. I think you may have more trouble with these than anything else
in the machine.
I wonder if spraying out with crc contact cleaner and a nice slathering of
dielectric grease would help.
5 Feb
5 Feb
12:37 p.m.
On 02/04/2015 09:08 PM, Jacob Ritorto wrote:
On Wed, Feb 4, 2015 at 10:00 PM, Jon Elson <elson
at pico-systems.com> wrote:
I had a Conrac studio video monitor a long time ago that had
been dosed with some horrible
contact "improver" gunk that turned all the Molex connectors
to green blobs. After this had
been done, the monitor would never work reliably. This
totally turned me off to these
materials. I do NOT know what specific thing was used on
that unit, but the results were
awful.
The problem is these pure tin coatings oxidize, and
especially once the contact starts to
run warm, the process accelerates. The only REAL solution
is to replace both terminals,
and possibly the housings if they get burned up, too.
However, that was too much trouble,
so usually I just carefully squeezed the female pin to give
a tighter grip on the male, cleaned
them as well as I could and put it back together. If it
really got burned up, I did have to
replace the contacts. I may have had to do the replacement
on maybe 2 contacts in the
time we had the 11/45. But, we had bad contacts causing one
of the +5 regulators to
drop out happen a number of times, maybe 10+ in those 5 or
so years. I think it was
just about always the +5 regulators as they had the highest
current, but at least once
is was one of the 15V regs.
Jon
The 11/45 has a row of little step-down regulator
modules, all plugged in
with
those horrible AMP Mate-n-Lock connectors. We often had bad contacts on
those and they would sometimes burn the connector housings or char the
ends of the wires. That was all about 1980, I can't imagine they've
improved
with age. I think you may have more trouble with these than anything else
in the machine.
I wonder if spraying out with crc contact cleaner and a nice slathering of
dielectric grease would help.
4:38 p.m.
On Wed, 4 Feb 2015, Jacob Ritorto wrote:
On Wed, Feb 4, 2015 at 10:00 PM, Jon Elson <elson
at pico-systems.com> wrote:
Never use silicone (dielectric) grease anywhere near this sort of stuff.
Western Electric / AT&T learned the hard way back in the day when the
stuff damaged switch and relay contacts in their telephone switches. On
the other hand, something like Sanchem A-Special would be fine, although a
little messy. (And before someone asks, no, A-Special is not anything at
all like that nasty "Noalox" zinc particle garbage from Ideal
Industries...totally different product families and applications.)
The main issue with AMP Mate-n-lock connectors (and similar pin and socket
connectors from Molex) is the use of tin plated spring brass contacts
instead of tin plated beryllium copper contacts. Spring brass contacts are
not rated for very much current compared to beryllium copper contacts, but
manufacturers tend to buy whatever is cheapest. I've successfully used
both types of contacts for years without issues and haven't (yet) had the
catastrophic failures some people have described. If I use these type of
connectors for power though, I use beryllium copper contacts.
The 11/45 has a row of little step-down regulator modules, all plugged
in with those horrible AMP Mate-n-Lock connectors. We often had bad
contacts on those and they would sometimes burn the connector housings
or char the ends of the wires. That was all about 1980, I can't
imagine they've improved with age. I think you may have more trouble
with these than anything else in the machine.
I wonder if spraying out with crc contact cleaner and a nice slathering
of dielectric grease would help.
4:45 p.m.
excellent information - thanks!
On Thu, Feb 5, 2015 at 4:38 PM, Tothwolf <tothwolf at concentric.net> wrote:
On Wed, 4 Feb 2015, Jacob Ritorto wrote:
On Wed, Feb 4, 2015 at 10:00 PM, Jon Elson
<elson at pico-systems.com>
wrote:
Never use silicone (dielectric) grease anywhere near this sort of stuff.
Western Electric / AT&T learned the hard way back in the day when the stuff
damaged switch and relay contacts in their telephone switches. On the other
hand, something like Sanchem A-Special would be fine, although a little
messy. (And before someone asks, no, A-Special is not anything at all like
that nasty "Noalox" zinc particle garbage from Ideal Industries...totally
different product families and applications.)
The main issue with AMP Mate-n-lock connectors (and similar pin and socket
connectors from Molex) is the use of tin plated spring brass contacts
instead of tin plated beryllium copper contacts. Spring brass contacts are
not rated for very much current compared to beryllium copper contacts, but
manufacturers tend to buy whatever is cheapest. I've successfully used both
types of contacts for years without issues and haven't (yet) had the
catastrophic failures some people have described. If I use these type of
connectors for power though, I use beryllium copper contacts.
The 11/45 has a row of little step-down regulator modules, all plugged
in with those horrible AMP Mate-n-Lock connectors. We often had bad
contacts on those and they would sometimes burn the connector housings or
char the ends of the wires. That was all about 1980, I can't imagine
they've improved with age. I think you may have more trouble with these
than anything else in the machine.
I wonder if spraying out with crc contact cleaner and a nice slathering
of dielectric grease would help.
4:57 p.m.
Indeed, thank you; I don't follow it closely and I probably would have been
caught short when stocks ran down. Guess it's time to go and pick up a case
or two down at the home store... I needed to make a light bulb run anyway,
LOL.
Best,
Sean
On Thu, Feb 5, 2015 at 4:45 PM, Jacob Ritorto <jacob.ritorto at gmail.com>
wrote:
excellent information - thanks!
On Thu, Feb 5, 2015 at 4:38 PM, Tothwolf <tothwolf at concentric.net> wrote:
Never use silicone (dielectric) grease anywhere near this sort of stuff.
Western Electric / AT&T learned the hard way back in the day when the stuff
On Wed, 4 Feb 2015, Jacob Ritorto wrote:
> On Wed, Feb 4, 2015 at 10:00 PM, Jon Elson <elson at pico-systems.com>
> wrote:
>
>>
>> The 11/45 has a row of little step-down regulator modules, all plugged
>> in with those horrible AMP Mate-n-Lock connectors. We often had bad
>> contacts on those and they would sometimes burn the connector housings
or
>> char the ends of the wires. That was all
about 1980, I can't imagine
>> they've improved with age. I think you may have more trouble with
these
than anything else in the machine.
I wonder if spraying out with crc contact cleaner and a nice slathering
of dielectric grease would help.
damaged switch and relay contacts in their
telephone switches. On the
other
hand, something like Sanchem A-Special would be
fine, although a little
messy. (And before someone asks, no, A-Special is not anything at all
like
that nasty "Noalox" zinc particle
garbage from Ideal Industries...totally
different product families and applications.)
The main issue with AMP Mate-n-lock connectors (and similar pin and
socket
connectors from Molex) is the use of tin plated
spring brass contacts
instead of tin plated beryllium copper contacts. Spring brass contacts
are
not rated for very much current compared to
beryllium copper contacts,
but
manufacturers tend to buy whatever is cheapest.
I've successfully used
both
types of contacts for years without issues and
haven't (yet) had the
catastrophic failures some people have described. If I use these type of
connectors for power though, I use beryllium copper contacts.
2:45 a.m.
You mentioned a G401, which I think is bipolar memory. There could be 4 of
these and 2 control boards. These are not needed and you might want to pull
them to make trouble shooting easier.
Also I would be careful with them. They used to be expensive if you needed
to replace them.
The 45 and 70 share some boards, and there are 2 different backplanes/
board sets for each.
It sounds like you have the power supplies covered.
On Wed, Feb 4, 2015 at 12:43 PM, Jacob Ritorto <jacob.ritorto at gmail.com>
wrote:
Hi,
Having gotten the 11/34 rig up to a good spec, I'm sufficiently excited
to tackle the 11/45. It's been powered off since 2004, when I briefly
turned it on only to find a wild jumble of lights and that none of the
front panel switches or knobs did anything to the lights. Couldn't get it
to run or deposit values or *anything*. I therefore assumed it was badly
broken and so left it until now. It has stayed perfectly high and dry but
has gone to extremes in temperature as the storage isn't climate controlled
(this is in western Pennsylvania). And there's a lot of dust.
I'm not going for museum perfection, but want it to be very presentable
(lobbying to keep it as my 'art' in the living room long term if it's
presentable enough :) and functional.
So I'm looking for tips on how to go about it? I was thinking:
1) Truck machine to living room, note positions of all wires / boards.
Photograph, remove and clean dust from them. Place on antistatic bench.
2) Thoroughly blow out dust and debris, vacuum backplane and wipe down
chassis and wires with damp cloth.
3) Map out desired hardware config: I have available two Fujitsu 160 disks,
three Fujitsu M2333K disks and two Fujitsu M2372K disks. I need to decide
how to rack and cable at least two, possibly up to four of them as the 8"
ones have no mounting hardware. Operational status on all is "hopeful." I
have two Emulex SC21s and an SC41 as well as an unmarked Xylogics Unibus
SMD board. I'm also tempted to mount an RX02 drive as I have a controller
and quite a mountain of floppies supposedly containing weird old stuff. I
need to source an ethernet board and whatever cabling / bulkhead stuff
follows. DZ11, its dist panel and a Diablo 630 printer would be nice, too.
4) This would also be a good time to broach the subject of whether or not
the capacitors need special love, or if that just adds more risk of
destroying something. Those familiar, please chime in as the archive is
currently missing so I can't refer to the recent threads on this subject.
Datapoint: I didn't mess at all with power supply / caps on my 11/34, which
was stored right beside the '45 for the same timespan and it's running
great now. Datapoint 2: with my amateur electronics skills / status,
there's admittedly some risk just having me poking around in there,
"learning" things :-\ Plus, I'm afraid of death from esoteric high
voltages that I hear are present in these old power supplies. Is the 11/45
one of them? In a nutshell, this analog / power stuff is FAR FROM my
forte; some hand-holding here would be most appreciated.
5) Insert an expendable Unibus module and power up; check & tune power. I
need direction on how to go about this. Also, the bottom H742A power
chassis isn't completely populated. Not sure if that's acceptable, on
purpose or bad.
6) Reassemble, tidying up issues like missing / loose screws, rubbing
cables, etc. along the way.
7) rt, 2.11BSD, rsx, rsts/e! (mostly via vtserver - I have a tu10 that I
could get in on this deal, but its roller rubber has turned into goo and
two cabinets in the living room is more than "pushing it." Later date on
that puppy. )
Current module config starting from front of cabinet (yes, there are some
gaps and M9200 jumpers I don't mention, too):
M9301 + M787
M8114
M8115
M8112
M8113
M8100
M8101
M8102
M8103
M8104
M8105
M8106
M8108
M8107
M8109
M8110
g401
M7800 + M9200 jumper
H214
G231
G110
H214
G231
G110
H214
G231
G110
Unibus cable runs out to third party external memory chassis, "Monolithic
Systems Corp" Type MO v11/PDP11 P/N 300-0058-000, which is three quarters
populated. If this memory is broken, I'm planning to use an M7891 instead
(is that OK?).
No Unibus termination after that. Is that weird / bad?
Does this current config seem sound? Is there a problem obvious just from
this description that would account for the unresponsive front panel?
Here's the power supply situation: There are two H742A power chassis. Top
contains h744, h744, h744, h744, h745. Bottom contains H745, H746, open,
H744, open.
big thx!
jake
9:32 a.m.
I've been reading through the 11/45 manuals and it seems these machines
are far more complex than I had imagined. Can anyone understand and
explain the unibus a / unibus b concept?
Should I eliminate all this fancy bipolar and core memory and just use an
m7891? If I did, would it be on the fastbus, unibus a or unibus b and
would it even matter?
On Thu, Feb 5, 2015 at 2:45 AM, Paul Anderson <useddec at gmail.com> wrote:
You mentioned a G401, which I think is bipolar memory.
There could be 4 of
these and 2 control boards. These are not needed and you might want to pull
them to make trouble shooting easier.
Also I would be careful with them. They used to be expensive if you needed
to replace them.
The 45 and 70 share some boards, and there are 2 different backplanes/
board sets for each.
It sounds like you have the power supplies covered.
On Wed, Feb 4, 2015 at 12:43 PM, Jacob Ritorto <jacob.ritorto at gmail.com>
wrote:
Hi,
Having gotten the 11/34 rig up to a good spec, I'm sufficiently excited
to tackle the 11/45. It's been powered off since 2004, when I briefly
turned it on only to find a wild jumble of lights and that none of the
front panel switches or knobs did anything to the lights. Couldn't get
it
to run or deposit values or *anything*. I
therefore assumed it was badly
broken and so left it until now. It has stayed perfectly high and dry
but
has gone to extremes in temperature as the
storage isn't climate
controlled
(this is in western Pennsylvania). And
there's a lot of dust.
I'm not going for museum perfection, but want it to be very presentable
(lobbying to keep it as my 'art' in the living room long term if it's
presentable enough :) and functional.
So I'm looking for tips on how to go about it? I was thinking:
1) Truck machine to living room, note positions of all wires / boards.
Photograph, remove and clean dust from them. Place on antistatic bench.
2) Thoroughly blow out dust and debris, vacuum backplane and wipe down
chassis and wires with damp cloth.
3) Map out desired hardware config: I have available two Fujitsu 160
disks,
three Fujitsu M2333K disks and two Fujitsu M2372K
disks. I need to
decide
how to rack and cable at least two, possibly up
to four of them as the 8"
ones have no mounting hardware. Operational status on all is
"hopeful."
I
have two Emulex SC21s and an SC41 as well as an
unmarked Xylogics Unibus
SMD board. I'm also tempted to mount an RX02 drive as I have a
controller
and quite a mountain of floppies supposedly
containing weird old stuff.
I
need to source an ethernet board and whatever
cabling / bulkhead stuff
follows. DZ11, its dist panel and a Diablo 630 printer would be nice,
too.
4) This would also be a good time to broach the subject of whether or not
the capacitors need special love, or if that just adds more risk of
destroying something. Those familiar, please chime in as the archive is
currently missing so I can't refer to the recent threads on this subject.
Datapoint: I didn't mess at all with power supply / caps on my 11/34,
which
was stored right beside the '45 for the same
timespan and it's running
great now. Datapoint 2: with my amateur electronics skills / status,
there's admittedly some risk just having me poking around in there,
"learning" things :-\ Plus, I'm afraid of death from esoteric high
voltages that I hear are present in these old power supplies. Is the
11/45
one of them? In a nutshell, this analog / power
stuff is FAR FROM my
forte; some hand-holding here would be most appreciated.
5) Insert an expendable Unibus module and power up; check & tune power.
I
need direction on how to go about this. Also,
the bottom H742A power
chassis isn't completely populated. Not sure if that's acceptable, on
purpose or bad.
6) Reassemble, tidying up issues like missing / loose screws, rubbing
cables, etc. along the way.
7) rt, 2.11BSD, rsx, rsts/e! (mostly via vtserver - I have a tu10
that I
could get in on this deal, but its roller rubber
has turned into goo and
two cabinets in the living room is more than "pushing it." Later date on
that puppy. )
Current module config starting from front of cabinet (yes, there are some
gaps and M9200 jumpers I don't mention, too):
M9301 + M787
M8114
M8115
M8112
M8113
M8100
M8101
M8102
M8103
M8104
M8105
M8106
M8108
M8107
M8109
M8110
g401
M7800 + M9200 jumper
H214
G231
G110
H214
G231
G110
H214
G231
G110
Unibus cable runs out to third party external memory chassis, "Monolithic
Systems Corp" Type MO v11/PDP11 P/N 300-0058-000, which is three quarters
populated. If this memory is broken, I'm planning to use an M7891
instead
(is that OK?).
No Unibus termination after that. Is that weird / bad?
Does this current config seem sound? Is there a problem obvious just
from
this description that would account for the
unresponsive front panel?
Here's the power supply situation: There are two H742A power chassis.
Top
contains h744, h744, h744, h744, h745. Bottom
contains H745, H746, open,
H744, open.
big thx!
jake
10:35 a.m.
I've been reading through the 11/45 manuals and
it seems these machines
are far more complex than I had imagined. Can anyone understand and
explain the unibus a / unibus b concept?
This is something I ought to figure out sometime too. AFAIK, it is only significant
if you have the special 11/45 memory boards (MOS or bipolar) in the CPU backplane.
For most applications (read : Anything you or I is going to do at the start), you
jumper the 2 Unibuses together with an M9200 in A/B of slots 26 and 27 of the
CPU backplane. This M9200 is just a narrower version of the M920, you can
probably drill out the rivets and remove the handle of an M920 to make one. I think
I did the reverse at one point.
If you do this, you can have standard Unibus memory boards on the Unibus, but they
don't go in the CPU backplane. I remember modifying a 4 slot backplane to have an MUD
slot (before I had even heard of an MUD slot) and fitting a 3rd party MOS RAM board.
Should I eliminate all this fancy bipolar and core memory and just use an
m7891? If I did, would it be on the fastbus, unibus a or unibus b and
would it even matter?
AFAIK, if you do that you have one bus, Unibus, and it works fine.
-tony
3455
days inactive
3456
days old
14 comments
7 participants
participants (7)
-
ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk -
elson＠pico-systems.com -
jacob.ritorto＠gmail.com -
robert.jarratt＠ntlworld.com -
scaron＠umich.edu -
tothwolf＠concentric.net -
useddec＠gmail.com