3 Mar
2002
3 Mar
'02
4:47 p.m.
I have a weird TTL here - a brand I have never seen. It is marked
FJH121/7410N witha 6920 datecode, and the logo is a diamond with an "A"
inside. Japanese, perhaps? I have seen that logo before...
Ideas?
William Donzelli
aw288(a)osfn.org
4 Mar
4 Mar
5:48 a.m.
On Sun, 3 Mar 2002, William Donzelli wrote:
I have a weird TTL here - a brand I have never seen.
It is marked
FJH121/7410N witha 6920 datecode, and the logo is a diamond with an
"A" inside. Japanese, perhaps? I have seen that logo before...
Ideas?
Fujitsu? Hitachi? A good cross reference book should show who made 'FJH'
parts. Somehow I doubt they were making 7400 series logic chips in 1969,
so the 6920 number must be an in-house date code of some sort.
-Toth
7:43 a.m.
Tothwolf wrote:
On Sun, 3 Mar 2002, William Donzelli wrote:
TTL came out in the 60's, but at BIG $$$ a chip they could only afford
it for
things like the space program that put man on the moon or large main
frames.
--
Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu *
www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html
I have a weird TTL here - a brand I have never
seen. It is marked
FJH121/7410N witha 6920 datecode, and the logo is a diamond with an
"A" inside. Japanese, perhaps? I have seen that logo before...
Ideas?
Fujitsu? Hitachi? A good cross reference book should show who made 'FJH'
parts. Somehow I doubt they were making 7400 series logic chips in 1969,
so the 6920 number must be an in-house date code of some sort. 
12:34 p.m.
FJH was the Valvo prefix
http://www.elektron-bbs.de/elektronik/tabellen/ddr/digibiic.htm
Like some of the Siemens stuff it could be kinda special slow TTL
intended for noisy industrial or automotive environments.
Regards,
Sipke de Wal
----- Original Message -----
From: Ben Franchuk <bfranchuk(a)jetnet.ab.ca>
To: <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org>
Sent: Monday, March 04, 2002 7:43 PM
Subject: Re: Weird 7410
Tothwolf wrote:
On Sun, 3 Mar 2002, William Donzelli wrote:
TTL came out in the 60's, but at BIG $$$ a chip they could only afford
it for
things like the space program that put man on the moon or large main
frames.
--
Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu *
www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html I have a weird TTL here - a brand I have never
seen. It is marked
FJH121/7410N witha 6920 datecode, and the logo is a diamond with an
"A" inside. Japanese, perhaps? I have seen that logo before...
Ideas?
Fujitsu? Hitachi? A good cross reference book should show who made 'FJH'
parts. Somehow I doubt they were making 7400 series logic chips in 1969,
so the 6920 number must be an in-house date code of some sort.
2:30 p.m.
FJH was the Valvo prefix
http://www.elektron-bbs.de/elektronik/tabellen/ddr/digibiic.htm
Like some of the Siemens stuff it could be kinda special slow TTL
intended for noisy industrial or automotive environments.
Hmmm...Valvo. Thanks for the information.
I have this weird side hobby of collecting early (pre 1972-ish, but mostly
60s) ICs, and was unaware that Valvo made 7400 TTL.
William Donzelli
aw288(a)osfn.org
2:15 p.m.
TTL came out in the 60's, but at BIG $$$ a chip
they could only afford
it for
things like the space program that put man on the moon or large main
frames.
Yes, pretty expensive. I seem to remember from an 1968-ish catalog,
seeing prices of a dollar or two for basic 7400 series TTL, like a 7410.
The more complex chips (more than a few gates) were three or four dollars
a pop.
William Donzelli
aw288(a)osfn.org
5 Mar
5 Mar
10:37 a.m.
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2:58 p.m.
Tony Duell wrote:
I was just reading a bit on TTL while looking for something else.
In 1965 a 7400 gate was $20 and Candy bars 5 cents.
--
Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu *
www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html
Yes, pretty expensive. I seem to remember from an
1968-ish catalog,
seeing prices of a dollar or two for basic 7400 series TTL, like a 7410.
The more complex chips (more than a few gates) were three or four dollars
a pop.
I was actually quoted \pounds 17.00 (or thereabouts) for a 74154 the
other week. Fortunately the 74LS154 was a lot cheaper and would do in the
unit I was repairing....
-tony
6 Mar
6 Mar
8:52 a.m.
I was just reading a bit on TTL while looking for
something else.
In 1965 a 7400 gate was $20 and Candy bars 5 cents.
Probably not 7400 series (earliest 7400 series I have are from late 1968).
There were a number of logic families that were out in the mid-1960s. Yes,
in 1965 I can believe $20 per chip!
And then, ten years later, 19 cents per chip...
William Donzelli
aw288(a)osfn.org
10:08 a.m.
New subject: Pre-7400-series logic ICs (was Re: Weird 7410)
--- William Donzelli <aw288(a)osfn.org> wrote:
I _think_ I have some 7400-series chips from 1967, but no earlier. They'd
be in a PDP-8/L if, in fact, I am remembering correctly.
I was just
reading a bit on TTL while looking for something else.
In 1965 a 7400 gate was $20 and Candy bars 5 cents.
Probably not 7400 series (earliest 7400 series I have are from late
1968). There were a number of logic families that were out in
the mid-1960s.
Indeed... I am looking for some (and not expecting to find any) to
build a replica of a DW08, DEC's pre-TTL TTY interface made from W-series
and R-series logic. The W706 and W707 boards use a Motorola logic family
with 3 digits, not 4. The schematic for the W707 transmitter shows...
1 x MC799P "Dual Power Buffer" ('P' for Plastic package, 0C - 70C
rated)
8 x MC724P "Dual J-K Flip- Flop"
5 x MC724P "Quad Input Gate" (NAND)
5 x MC789P "Hex Inverter"
GND is on pin 4, Vcc is shown to be +3.6 VDC on pin 11. The schematic also
suggests that they are 14-pin ICs, but no way of telling if they are DIP or
some other packaging (but the mention of a plastic package is a hint).
I have to say that I have been previously unaware of any logic family that
used +3.6V for Vcc. Anyone have any info from 35 years ago?
Yes, in 1965 I can believe $20 per chip!
And then, ten years later, 19 cents per chip...
Thank you, Gordon Moore.
-ethan
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11:13 a.m.
New subject: Pre-7400-series logic ICs (was Re: Weird 7410)
On Wed, 6 Mar 2002, Ethan Dicks wrote:
Peter Wallace
--- William Donzelli <aw288(a)osfn.org> wrote:
I _think_ I have some 7400-series chips from 1967, but no earlier. They'd
be in a PDP-8/L if, in fact, I am remembering correctly.
They are 14 pin DIPs in shiny black epoxy. RTL I believe.
I was
just reading a bit on TTL while looking for something else.
In 1965 a 7400 gate was $20 and Candy bars 5 cents.
Probably not 7400 series (earliest 7400 series I have are from late
1968). There were a number of logic families that were
out in the mid-1960s.
Indeed... I am looking for some (and not expecting to find any) to
build a replica of a DW08, DEC's pre-TTL TTY interface made from W-series
and R-series logic. The W706 and W707 boards use a Motorola logic family
with 3 digits, not 4. The schematic for the W707 transmitter shows...
1 x MC799P "Dual Power Buffer" ('P' for Plastic package, 0C - 70C
rated)
8 x MC724P "Dual J-K Flip- Flop"
5 x MC724P "Quad Input Gate" (NAND)
5 x MC789P "Hex Inverter"
GND is on pin 4, Vcc is shown to be +3.6 VDC on pin 11. The schematic also
suggests that they are 14-pin ICs, but no way of telling if they are DIP or
some other packaging (but the mention of a plastic package is a hint).
I have to say that I have been previously unaware of any logic family that
used +3.6V for Vcc. Anyone have any info from 35 years ago?
Fairchild RTL uLogic (914 dual 2 IP NOR, 923 JK FF,913 D FF etc (memory
failing...) -- all 8 pin TO5 cans or epoxy equiv...
also use 3.6 V
Yes, in 1965 I can believe $20 per chip!
And then, ten years later, 19 cents per chip...
Thank you, Gordon Moore.
-ethan
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6:38 p.m.
New subject: Pre-7400-series logic ICs (was Re: Weird 7410)
--- "Peter C. Wallace" <pcw(a)mesanet.com> wrote:
On Wed, 6 Mar 2002, Ethan Dicks wrote:
> 5 x MC724P "Quad Input Gate" (NAND)...
They are 14 pin DIPs in shiny black epoxy. RTL I
believe.
That is in keeping with the appearance of some Motorola 8xx series
chips on a board I received today. It was attached to a TI 980A and
from the date codes, appears to be from c. 1972.
-ethan
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11:53 a.m.
New subject: Pre-7400-series logic ICs (was Re: Weird 7410)
I _think_ I have some 7400-series chips from 1967, but
no earlier. They'd
be in a PDP-8/L if, in fact, I am remembering correctly.
I don't know when the 7400 line was kicked off, but I could believe late
1967.
Indeed... I am looking for some (and not expecting to
find any) to
build a replica of a DW08, DEC's pre-TTL TTY interface made from W-series
and R-series logic.
Frankly, I think you will spend less time and resources just finding an
original DW08. The 700 series chips are out there if one looks carefully,
but so are the two DEC boards.
William Donzelli
aw288(a)osfn.org
12:13 p.m.
New subject: Pre-7400-series logic ICs (was Re: Weird 7410)
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6:34 p.m.
New subject: Pre-7400-series logic ICs (was Re: Weird 7410)
--- Tony Duell <ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk> wrote:
I wrote:
Strike two! The MC790 is the Dual J-K FF.
> build a replica of a DW08...
Errp... a PT08 not a DW08. The DW08 is on a different page and is a
bus converter.
...DEC's pre-TTL TTY interface made from W-series
and R-series logic.
8 x MC724P
"Dual J-K Flip- Flop"
5 x MC724P "Quad Input Gate" (NAND)
I don't believe that the 724 is both a NAND gate and a J-K flip-flop
:-)... > GND is on pin 4, Vcc is shown to be +3.6 VDC on
pin 11...
Almost certainly RTL. The 3.6V power line is the big
clue. I know I
don't have data sheets for them, but I could probably find pinouts if
pushed. I guess you have that info on the schematic, though.
Pinouts I got. Physical and electrical specs (and actual parts!) I don't
got.
Thanks,
-ethan
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4 Mar
4 Mar
8:30 a.m.
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15 comments
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participants (7)
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