Already removed. On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 10:14 PM, <dave at 661.org> wrote: is it https://www.flickr.com/photos/32548582 at N02/sets/72157653950476154/with/19938469936/

Who picked this up - I may have some cash for the buyer to mate it with my new ASR33, on its way via crate and freight. Anybody got debug and startup tips on the 33, it probably has been siting for a while. (like who has the melted hammer replacements and such, tape and paper sources) I assume all the 8K, 4K BASICs are in public domain by now. The demo for the kids will be the 15 minutes of paper tape, followed by READY. Randy

On Aug 20, 2015, at 10:30 AM, Jay Jaeger <cube1 at charter.net> wrote: On 8/20/2015 3:32 AM, Randy Dawson wrote: Bad assumption. Things that were actually registered even if there was no notice, or published with a copyright notice would still be protected under U.S. copyright.

https://copyright.cornell.edu/resources/publicdomain.cfm Has a nice understandable synopsis.

So, the only hope for something published in the last half century to be public domain now would be if it were explicitly placed in public domain, or were originally published without notice before 1978.

On Thu, 20 Aug 2015, Chuck Guzis wrote: > > But yeah, I'd hate to run up against BillG in a spat over appropriating

> Better to ask first, no? I keep playing that old song, but "used with

Chuck is absolutely right (as usual) Our, or anybody else's, interpretations of the laws are of far less

So, buy Bill Degnan's license, and write a nice note to Bill Gates. When you do, ask him if there any updates to it planned.

On 08/20/2015 06:44 PM, william degnan wrote: So--ask. I don't presume to read the minds of others.

Be it right or wrong to use an unlicensed copy...Even back in 1976 MSOFT to my knowledge did not pursue legal action against end users for violation of its BASIC license, so why in 2015 presume MSOFT would start now? To be honorable it would not hurt to send a letter to the Living History Museum c/o Paul Allen to ask for a hobbyist license but we both know that is a huge longshot. Maybe Ian King would have his ear. But to what end? Again, I respect your opinion not looking to argue beyond this friendly reply. As I said before I do have a license but it is not for sale..where would I get a new copy?

On Aug 21, 2015, at 12:50 AM, Eric Smith <spacewar at gmail.com> wrote: A few years ago, an engineer at a Very Big Corporation asked me if I had their source code to the firmware in one of their best-selling products, which has sold tens of millions of units over more than two decades. They had lost the source code, and they knew that I had some familiarity with the internals of the product, so they thought I might have the source code. I had actually requested the source code from them many years before, and had been willing to sign an NDA, but they had not been willing to make it available to me. A few years after they asked me, they did track down one of the employees who originally wrote the firmware, and who had retained a copy of the source code, probably contrary to company policy. I've worked for several companies that lost source code and were saved by employees having kept copies in violation of corporate policy. One of those companies threatened to fire the employee who saved their bacon by having kept the code. (No, it wasn't me.) People have told me that big companies have good controls and don't lose their source code. From personal experience I can say that you can't count on that.

What follows is a tale of carelessness, stupidity and laziness. So far, I haven't found an excuse to add ignorance to the list. ;) As you may recall, I was testing an 8" floppy drive that was reading inconsistently on an Altos 8000 system, when, while testing with a replacement drive, the 24V power supply gave out. First I acquired a replacement series pass (2N3055) from Radio Shack. That did not seem to fix the problem. Further, due to *carelessness* (#1) during the replacement and testing of the 2N3055, I managed to break the center lead off of the TIP31A which drives it. So, I ordered a replacement for the TIP31A, and, while I was at it, ordered several LM723 Voltage Regulators, just in case (good idea, as it turned out). Then, I replaced the TIP31A, put it back together and --- nothing. No output. Oh well, I guess the LM723 must be bad. Then, in the process of checking that out, I tilted the board over on its back and, due to my *carelessness* (#2) and *stupidity* (#3)) FLASH!!! BANG!!!! POP!!!! Though switched off, the power supply was still plugged in - I had neglected to unplug it. The board came in contact with what SHOULD HAVE BEEN neutral, which likely would have caused no harm. I didn't actually realize that until I was on my way back home with the parts to replace what had blown out. [Also a design note: Altos did not cover up the input terminals on the transformer or use quick disconnect plugs - either of which would have saved the day.] After some thought (and a test), I realized that, due to prior laziness / neglect (#4 - about 10 years+ worth), and a dose of stupidity, the mains hot and neutral were reversed on my bench. Thus the power switch was on the neutral side, and the mains to the power supply was "hot" even when not turned on. At least this was not *originally* my fault. That circuit came that way when we bought the house. But, out of laziness, neglect and stupidity, I had not fixed it, even though I had known about it for years. So, this blew up the -12V supply (quite literally) -- cross out a pair of rectifiers, an LM723 voltage regulator (spectacularly blown up, with a hole in middle and two leads blow away), and a 2N2905 transistor, a couple of resistors and a trace on the circuit board. (At the time, the 2N3055 series pass transistor was not connected in the circuit). The fuse didn't blow - it wasn't part of the circuit, being on the neutral side of things because of the miss-wired mains in the house - the short was from hot to ground. (A GFCI, had I had one, would undoubtedly have tripped). Next, I pulled out all the blown components, and tested what was left. Being at least halfway clever, I proceeded to test the +24V and +12V supplies first. Once I replaced the original LM723 on the +24V supply, which was already undoubtedly bad, the +24V supply was fine - the short to the mains had not affected it. But the +12V supply's LM723 had apparently been collateral damage - the -12V supply uses the +12V supply as part of its LM723 circuit, so the two are connected. (I knew something was wrong, because even though I could set the supply +12V, the adjustment worked backwards, and under load the voltage dropped too much). So, I replaced the +12V supply LM723, and the +12V supply came back to life. Both tested fine under load, no ripple, only 20mv of noise. During these tests, I moved the same 2N3055 from circuit to circuit to avoid having to completely reassemble the supply. That saved time. But, do you think I was done being careless? Noooooooooooooope. Next, I soldered in the components for the -12V supply, including its 2N3055, and turned it on. KA-BANG!!! FLASH!!! DEBRIS CLOUD !!! Out of carelessness (#5) I had managed to put the electrolytic input capacitors in BACWARDS. I now had a nice coil of cardboard and aluminum sticking up out of one of them. Then the next day (today) I found the can itself lying on the floor - this power supply predates the modern practice of scored break lines in electrolytic capacitors. It could easily have hit me in the eye. So, I took both of those capacitors out, and tested the one that had not blown up. It seemed to be OK - no excessive leakage. So, I put in a replacement and... 0V output. Blown fuse. What the? Ahhhhh - forgot to check the rectifiers - and the capacitor reversal took both of those with it. The other semiconductors were fine. Replaced the rectifiers, put in the capacitors correctly and, finally, the -12V supply came to life. Adjusted, load tested, checked ripple. (Still need to replace the surviving capacitor. I don't trust it. And the smaller signal transistor I used is a bit underrated compared to the original (650mw vs. 800mw), so I expect I will replace both in a week or so, but for now the supply is quite usable. Ah yes - one other thing. The circuit (which the bench shares with a wall-wart powered water softener) that had hot and neutral reversed is reversed no longer, as of this afternoon. It now also has a GFCI, for good measure - a good idea on a bench circuit, methinks. So, maybe tomorrow, I can put this machine back together and get back to testing the floppy drive. So, SAFETY FIRST. Learn from my experience - it could have been deadly or resulted in serious injury (say, if a shock or reaction to the capacitor explosion had caused me to tip over on my stool an hit my head, or that capacitor can projectile had hit me in the eye). To paraphrase from the Direct TV commercials: DON'T BE LIKE THE LAZY ME. DON'T BE LIKE THE CARELESS ME. Be like the smarter, conscientious me who knows better. UNPLUG stuff before you work on it - DOUBLE CHECK. HAVE A GFCI for your workbench. Wear some kind of safety goggles or at least hardened corrective lenses when soldering and testing power supplies, especially. When replacing filter capacitors in a power supply (or anywhere else, for that matter), take an extra second to double check their polarity (I usually do - but "spaced" it this time). [Which reminds me of the IBM 1414 I/O synchronizer that had been at the U. Wisconsin Registrar and then the U. W. school of business, that had easily more than 10 smallish filter capacitors on the backplane that were backwards for years (these were hooked up with little sockets that slipped right over the pins on the backplane). Each day it took 10 minutes for things to settle down and the printer to stop showing its red Sync Check light because of the noise in the circuit. But they never blew up. The FE's finally got tired of seeing that anomaly and spent an entire day hunting it down.] I wish I could say I was in a hurry. That excuse wouldn't cut it anyway - but I was actually taking my time. Just careless. Sigh. JRJ

But the carelessness was DANGEROUS, which is really why I posted it. (BTW, in the way of other stories, a good friend once took out the processor UNIBUS interface and damaged peripherals when his watch shorted to the backplane of a PDP-11/20. I also did something not too dissimilar with my ring shorting out one bus line on my PDP-8/L. Sigh).

On 8/22/2015 4:11 PM, Eric Smith wrote: That wasn't Astronautics' ZS, by any chance?

Remember that most injuries associated with electric shock are secondary - that is, the real damage often occurs when the individual recoils from the shock, jamming their hands into even worse places in the equipment - like rotating assemblies. And then there's the innocent guy behind you, who gets knocked into his equipment, when you jump back.

As a child I remember getting a shock from a fridge and being "thrown" across the room into the wall opposite. I really did crash into the wall quite hard, so I can imagine it being very easy for the shock to cause other injuries. Regards Rob On 26/08/2015, tony duell <ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk> wrote:

> Turned out there was a 120v potential between the "dedicated" power for the computer and the printer which was plugged into the normal building power. > > There was probably as much as an amp going thru the grounds from the terminals in the building and the ground of the system. Miracle that he was not severely injured, and also that the system was working at all. > >

Whereas now you have a 'computer house' ? You were very lucky. An arm-to-arm shock is about the most dangerous you can get. That (of course) is why you keep your left hand behind your back when working on anything with high votlages.

OUCH!. I've seen some dubious wiring in my time (and just becasue somebody has the right bit of paper to say they are a qualified electrician does not mean they do good wiring in my experience!) but that is lethal. Don't they test wiring after it's installed? Over here you are certainly supposed to (and a megger would pick that up even if the short wan't quite there yet).

On Aug 26, 2015, at 3:16 PM, Jay Jaeger <cube1 at charter.net> wrote: On 8/26/2015 8:19 AM, Paul Koning wrote: Quite possibly two different phases, and if so, the would be 90 degrees out of phase with each other.

On 8/26/15 12:33, Paul Koning wrote: There's a bunch of 90-degree two-phase stuff in Philadelphia; in particular the city center has a lot of buildings that are fed 90-degree two-phase from PECO. I suspect (but do not actually know) that PECO derives two-phase from three-phase using Scott-T transformers.

Microdata card extractors were always engaged to a rail that was metal, and in one site I was at, there was a CE sized hole in the wall behind a system when the engineer extracted the printer card and the card extractors came free from the system. Turned out there was a 120v potential between the "dedicated" power for the computer and the printer which was plugged into the normal building power. There was probably as much as an amp going thru the grounds from the terminals in the building and the ground of the system. Miracle that he was not severely injured, and also that the system was working at all.

Whether low-impedance voltage sources are present, or not, you should +never+ wear any kind of hand / wrist jewelry when working with moving parts. Ditto for neck chains and long hair, that isn't securely tied back. Seems like First Grade instruction for the tech, but accidents still happen.. every day. Remember that most injuries associated with electric shock are secondary - that is, the real damage often occurs when the individual recoils from the shock, jamming their hands into even worse places in the equipment - like rotating assemblies. And then there's the innocent guy behind you, who

knocked into his equipment, when you jump back. On Tue, Aug 25, 2015 at 1:33 PM, Eric Smith <spacewar at gmail.com> wrote: > On Sat, Aug 22, 2015 at 3:35 PM, Jay Jaeger <cube1 at charter.net> wrote: > > On 8/22/2015 4:11 PM, Eric Smith wrote: > >> In my mostly misspent youth, I once had the opportunity to visit a > >> facility where a now obscure supercomputer was developed. The product > >> manager was showing me around. .... > > > > That wasn't Astronautics' ZS, by any chance? > > No. I omitted the names to protect the innocent. And the guilty. >

I have heard similar warnings about working on cars while wearing rings, or worse a wristwatch with a metal strap. A car battery can provide many hundreds of amps for a short period.

Unfortunately, bearings did not help the floppy drive, so now I am busy taking the floppy power supply I got with my FD 100-8, making sure it is up to spec to use with the Shugart (and correcting that if needs be), and making it safer (mains fuse, switch) and more fault tolerant (fuse in the 24V line, at least) and making sure all of the mains connected innards are not exposed. Just about done with that. The +24V and -7 to -16V are in spec, but the +5V (which, curiously for a 1A supply, does NOT use a simple 3 terminal regulator) is a tad high, at 5.35V. I may just change it to use a three terminal unit.

regulator more expect I When used as series pass transistor the TIP-3055 will usually drop 0.6v across the emitter under any significant load. Adding a silicon diode in the 7805 base is the normal fix... http://www.bristolwatch.com/ele/basic_power_supplies.htm

On 8/20/2015 9:47 AM, Paul Koning wrote: its way via crate and freight. siting for a while. sources) for the kids will be the 15 minutes of paper tape, followed by READY. is whether publication occurred before Jan 1, 1978, or after. After, notice does not matter; before, lack of notice means no copyright. Even before, if it was registered, then it would be covered, even if there was no notice.

On Thu, 20 Aug 2015, william degnan wrote: Is it transferrable?

Indeed. Apple even screwed up on this with their iconic rainbow apple logo. I discovered this while researching the history of the logo while doing image work on Wikipedia / Wikimedia Commons many years ago. It is still a trademark, but the image is public domain because it was published before 1978 with no notice. https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Apple_Computer_Logo_rainbow.svg