17 Aug
2004
17 Aug
'04
2:05 p.m.
From: Christian Corti <cc(a)corti-net.de>
You can't change the microcode of the PALM processor. That would be like
changing the microcode of e.g. a MC68000.
Actually....you can do that.
The IBM {PC,XT,AT}/370 card(s) (ISA-bus card that put a "baby" IBM S/370 on
your desktop) had a CPU that was a re-microcoded 68000 (emulating some
subset of the IBM S/370 mainframe instruction set). IBM licensed the
architecture from Motorola. Probably got familiar with it building the IBM
9000 Instruments System.
That, of course, doesn't mean you could do it on a PALM.
Ken
17 Aug
17 Aug
2:44 p.m.
New subject: u-370 is not a recoded 68000 (was: IBM 5100)
Ken Seefried wrote:
From: Christian Corti <cc(a)corti-net.de>
I've heard that repeatedly, but I actually think it isn't true. I think
I know the real story.
One of the designers of the 68000 was a guy named Nick Tredennick. Ten
years or so ago I read a book that Tredennick wrote on his experience as
the architect of the micro-370. He kept extensive notes on the project
and details how the architecture evolved, the politics that came into
play, the near death experiences of the project, etc. His design was
influenced by his experience with the 68000 and took a lot of ideas from
it, but it simply was not a remicrocoded 68000.
Ah, the book is available on amazon (used). The title is
"Microprocessor Logic Design".
Nick Tredennick is a colorful guy. He always does a kind of roast at
the hotchips presentations every year at Stanford, and is always good
for quotes. He has always been a CISC booster and thought RISC was the
idea of lazy architects. In the back of his Microprocessor Logic Design
book he has a glossary, with more than a few funny definitions. For
example, under "Testability", the definition is something like "Circuits
that the test engineers make you put in that serve no useful purpose."
Or under "Methodology: stuck up way of saying Method. Methodology is
technically the study of methods." etc
You can't change the microcode of the PALM processor. That would be like
changing the microcode of e.g. a MC68000.
Actually....you can do that.
The IBM {PC,XT,AT}/370 card(s) (ISA-bus card that put a "baby" IBM S/370
on your desktop) had a CPU that was a re-microcoded 68000 (emulating
some subset of the IBM S/370 mainframe instruction set). IBM licensed
the architecture from Motorola. Probably got familiar with it building
the IBM 9000 Instruments System.
That, of course, doesn't mean you could do it on a PALM.
Ken 
4:02 p.m.
New subject: u-370 is not a recoded 68000 (was: IBM 5100)
On Tue, 17 Aug 2004, Jim Battle wrote:
Nick Tredennick is a colorful guy.
He's also fairly accessible:
http://www.tredennick.com/
(I like the background motif he uses on his web pages :)
I talked to him through e-mail a few years back and found him to be a
really nice guy.
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9:48 p.m.
New subject: u-370 is not a recoded 68000 (was: IBM 5100)
Am 17 Aug 2004 21:02 meinte Vintage Computer Festival:
On Tue, 17 Aug 2004, Jim Battle wrote:
> Nick Tredennick is a colorful guy.
He's also fairly accessible:
(I like the background motif he uses on his web pages
:)
it gets better when you go to his card.
But I like the crane truck ... that and the other make a
fine classic computer rescue vehicle squad :)
Gruss
H.
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http://www.vcfe.org/
20 Aug
20 Aug
3:27 a.m.
New subject: u-370 is not a recoded 68000 (was: IBM 5100)
<snip>
<snip>
Also his "home" and "back" buttons are quite fine.
He's also fairly accessible:
(I like the background motif he uses on his web
pages :)
it gets better when you go to his card.
But I like the crane truck ... that and the other make a
fine classic computer rescue vehicle squad :) 
3:42 a.m.
New subject: Tredennick (was: u-370 is not a recoded 68000 (was: IBM 5100))
> > http://www.tredennick.com/
>
> > (I like the background motif he uses on his web pages :)
<snip>
Also his "home" and "back" buttons
are quite fine.
I hate pictograms. They are a pet peeve of mine. I clicked on "back"
looking for more pictures of his wife :-)!
Those supposedly "international" symbols in the car are confusing, too.
Vince
4:11 a.m.
New subject: Tredennick (was: u-370 is not a recoded 68000 (was: IBM 5100))
Am 20 Aug 2004 8:42 meinte vrs:
> >
http://www.tredennick.com/
> > (I like the background motif he uses on his web pages :)
<snip>
> Also his "home" and "back" buttons are quite fine. I hate pictograms. They are a pet peeve of mine. I
clicked on "back"
looking for more pictures of his wife :-)!
*G*
Those supposedly "international" symbols in
the car are confusing, too.
Well, now you got me going .. so stupid signs saying some
text in some language are better than symbols? I'm talking
about the weired way that 99% of all signs in the US are
written text. Beside that reading them takes way more time,
isn't it especialy stupid in a country baesed on emigrants,
of whoom most can't even read their native language?
I mean, except for some realy ninor quirks, I can go almost
everywhere on the world and perfectly recognize the speed
linkit, no stop znoes, and whatever without speaking a danm
word of that language... except of course the US...
Gruss
H.
(and for tose 'international' stuff inside cars, I always
suspect they are only understood by americans ... of
European origin they can't be)
--
VCF Europa 6.0 am 30.April und 01.Mai 2005 in Muenchen
http://www.vcfe.org/
4:40 a.m.
New subject: Tredennick (was: u-370 is not a recoded 68000 (was: IBM 5100))
Those
supposedly "international" symbols in the car are confusing, too.
Well, now you got me going .. so stupid signs saying some
text in some language are better than symbols? I'm talking
about the weired way that 99% of all signs in the US are
written text. Beside that reading them takes way more time,
isn't it especialy stupid in a country baesed on emigrants,
of whoom most can't even read their native language?
I mean, except for some realy ninor quirks, I can go almost
everywhere on the world and perfectly recognize the speed
linkit, no stop znoes, and whatever without speaking a danm
word of that language... except of course the US... 
5:51 a.m.
New subject: Tredennick (was: u-370 is not a recoded 68000 (was: IBM 5100))
>>>> "David" == David V Corbin
<dvcorbin(a)optonline.net> writes:
>>> Well, there *is* still only one official
language here...except
>>> I think in California.
David> And Florida, and New York and .......
Actually, there isn't any official language in the USA. There's one
generally used by long tradition (English) and a large quantity of
others used to a lesser extent. Spanish, Italian, Chinese, Basque,
Navajo, ...
paul
9:23 a.m.
New subject: Tredennick (was: u-370 is not a recoded 68000 (was: IBM 5100))
----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Koning" <pkoning(a)equallogic.com>
To: <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org>
Sent: Friday, August 20, 2004 6:51 PM
Subject: RE: Tredennick (was: u-370 is not a recoded 68000 (was: IBM 5100))
And these :-
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/JWCRAWFORD/question.htm
http://www.spiegel.de/kultur/gesellschaft/0,1518,306711,00.html
Geoff.
>>>> "David" == David V Corbin <dvcorbin(a)optonline.net>
writes:
>>> Well, there *is* still only one
official language here...except
>>> I think in California.
David> And Florida, and New York and .......
Actually, there isn't any official language in the USA. There's one
generally used by long tradition (English) and a large quantity of
others used to a lesser extent. Spanish, Italian, Chinese, Basque,
Navajo, ...
paul
6:45 a.m.
New subject: Tredennick (was: u-370 is not a recoded 68000 (was: IBM 5100))
>> Well,
there *is* still only one official language
>> here...except I think in California.
And Florida, and New York and ....... 
7:36 a.m.
New subject: Tredennick (was: u-370 is not a recoded 68000 (was: IBM 5100))
>>
>> > OK, Paul has pointed out there isn't actually an official
>> language,
>> > but what is the other major language in New York?
>>
>> Brooklynese
>>
Hey, Are YOU talking to me? Are you TALKING to me? Are you talking to ME?
11:50 a.m.
New subject: Tredennick (was: u-370 is not a recoded 68000 (was: IBM 5100))
>> >
OK, Paul has pointed out there isn't actually an official
>> language,
>> > but what is the other major language in New York?
>> Brooklynese
Hey, Are YOU talking to me? Are you TALKING to me? Are you
talking to ME?
7:29 a.m.
New subject: Tredennick (was: u-370 is not a recoded 68000 (was: IBM 5100))
On Fri, 20 Aug 2004, vrs wrote:
OK, Paul has pointed out there isn't actually an official language, but what
is the other major language in New York?
Hebrew.
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>> Well, there *is* still only one official
language
>> here...except I think in California.
And Florida, and New York and .......
7:33 a.m.
New subject: Tredennick (was: u-370 is not a recoded 68000 (was: IBM 5100))
>> > And Florida, and New York and .......
>>
>> OK, Paul has pointed out there isn't actually an official
>> language, but what is the other major language in New York?
>>
>> Vince
>>
I was referring specifically to NYC [although I live outside of it] the
primary languages differ based on the neighborhood with large predominanly
Spanish, Chinese areas. In some of the neighborhoods you can actually walk
around an NOT see (almost) any signs in english, and the residents speak
english to level of fluenct that suits them
4:40 a.m.
New subject: that OT: Tredennick, u-370, 68000, 5100... thread
except for some realy ninor quirks, I can go almost
everywhere
on the world and perfectly recognize the speed linkit, no stop znoes
American unilinguality probably has more a place in the past than in
the future. I would attribute it more to just nature and geography than
any militant intent. One border is the Pacific ocean and another is the
Atlantic, perhaps the #1 and #2 largest oceans on earth, a luckier
situation probably couldn't be planned.
A standard question one got when working at IBM was, "Oh, I see from
your name that you're French. Have you ever been to France?" probably
a pretty enlightened place, relatively speaking.
John A.
Hans, I think you're getting over your typo limit.
5:44 a.m.
New subject: that OT: Tredennick, u-370, 68000, 5100... thread
Am 20 Aug 2004 12:40 meinte John Allain:
> except for some realy ninor quirks, I can go
almost everywhere
> on the world and perfectly recognize the speed linkit, no stop znoes
John A.
Hans, I think you're getting over your typo limit.
I guess you're right... I should write such rants after
returning from dinner, not when the food is already waiting.
After all, I'm just a typical male - and as someone already
stated on this list, a short time ago: Most men are just
thinking of food ... and so did I :)
Gruss
H.
--
VCF Europa 6.0 am 30.April und 01.Mai 2005 in Muenchen
http://www.vcfe.org/
6:56 a.m.
New subject: that OT: Tredennick, u-370, 68000, 5100... thread
except for
some realy ninor quirks, I can go almost everywhere
on the world and perfectly recognize the speed linkit, no stop znoes
American unilinguality probably has more a place in the past than in
the future. I would attribute it more to just nature and geography than
any militant intent. One border is the Pacific ocean and another is the
Atlantic, perhaps the #1 and #2 largest oceans on earth, a luckier
situation probably couldn't be planned. A standard question one got when working at IBM was,
"Oh, I see from
your name that you're French. Have you ever been to France?" probably
a pretty enlightened place, relatively speaking.
He'd heard of France, but never met anyone from there. I feel the same way
about North Dakota :-).
Vince
7:35 a.m.
New subject: that OT: Tredennick, u-370, 68000, 5100... thread
>> He'd heard of France, but never met anyone
from there. I
>> feel the same way about North Dakota :-).
>>
Ahhh, but how do you KNOW if you meet someone from North Dakota [or for
fans
of Dan Brown, know if they ARE North Dakota...]
8:07 a.m.
New subject: that OT: Tredennick, u-370, 68000, 5100... thread
Am 20 Aug 2004 15:35 meinte David V. Corbin:
>>> He'd heard of France, but never met
anyone from there. I
>>> feel the same way about North Dakota :-).
Ahhh, but how do you KNOW if you meet someone from
North Dakota [or for fans
of Dan Brown, know if they ARE North Dakota...]
Well, for starters, IS there a North Dakota?
I mean, couln't it be one of the things where
THEY want us to belive something wich just isn't
real?
Gruss
H.
--
VCF Europa 6.0 am 30.April und 01.Mai 2005 in Muenchen
http://www.vcfe.org/
8:41 a.m.
New subject: that OT: Tredennick, u-370, 68000, 5100... thread
>>>
He'd heard of France, but never met anyone from there. I
>>> feel the same way about North Dakota :-).
> Ahhh, but how do you KNOW if you meet someone from North Dakota [or for of Dan Brown,
know if they ARE North Dakota...]
Well, for starters, IS there a North Dakota?
I mean, couln't it be one of the things where
THEY want us to belive something wich just isn't
real?
11:13 a.m.
New subject: that OT: Tredennick, u-370, 68000, 5100... thread
On Fri, 20 Aug 2004, vrs wrote:
I used to doubt the existence of North and South
Dakota, but now I have been
to South Dakota, so I have to concede that North Dakota may exist as well.
It might be a ploy to make you THINK there's a North Dakota. I mean, look
at Virginia. You'd think there'd be an East Virginia because there's a
West Virginia, but no, they defied protocol and confused the hell out of
everyone when Virginia split and the westerners went with West Virginia.
However, the original Virginians were going to have none of that and
snubbed the West Virginians (some say it was a backstabbing double-cross!)
when they stayed with just Virginia!
I suppose you're also going to tell me there's a South Carolina! HA!
--
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11:51 a.m.
New subject: that OT: Tredennick, u-370, 68000, 5100... thread
> I used to doubt the existence of North and South
Dakota, but now I have
been
> to South Dakota, so I have to concede that North
Dakota may exist as
well.
It might be a ploy to make you THINK there's a North Dakota. I mean, look
at Virginia. You'd think there'd be an East Virginia because there's a
West Virginia, but no, they defied protocol and confused the hell out of
everyone when Virginia split and the westerners went with West Virginia.
However, the original Virginians were going to have none of that and
snubbed the West Virginians (some say it was a backstabbing double-cross!)
when they stayed with just Virginia!
That could be. Still if the world is rich enough to have South Dakota in
it, it might just have North Dakota, too. Probably with fewer bikers, and
more Minnesotans, though :-).
I suppose you're also going to tell me there's
a South Carolina! HA!
Nope, I can't vouch for the existence of either of the Carolinas...
Vince
3:07 p.m.
New subject: that OT: Tredennick, u-370, 68000, 5100... thread
On Fri, 20 Aug 2004, vrs wrote:
They exist.
I'm not sure WHY South Carolina exists, but it does.
I suppose
you're also going to tell me there's a South Carolina! HA!
Nope, I
can't vouch for the existence of either of the Carolinas... 
11:27 p.m.
New subject: that OT: Tredennick, u-370, 68000, 5100... thread
At 11:07 PM 8/20/2004, you wrote:
On Fri, 20 Aug 2004, vrs wrote:
They exist.
I'm not sure WHY South Carolina exists, but it does.
So you have such great shag classics as "Carolina Girls" of course!
[Note for those not from around here: "shag" is state dance of South
Carolina, not to be confused with the Austin Powers thing. One
"International Man of ..." on this list is quite enough thank you.<g>]
Ed
West Columbia (not to be confused with Columbia)
South Carolina
I suppose
you're also going to tell me there's a South Carolina! HA!
Nope, I
can't vouch for the existence of either of the Carolinas...
21 Aug
21 Aug
12:49 a.m.
New subject: that OT: Tredennick, u-370, 68000, 5100... thread
At 11:07 PM 8/20/2004, you wrote:
On Fri, 20 Aug 2004, vrs wrote:
They exist.
I'm not sure WHY South Carolina exists, but it does.
1) Had a nice couple from Surrey, UK over recently on a shooting holiday.
2) Gives Canadians a place to go.
3) Most of the nuclear fuel used in North American is made here.
[on-topic]
They still use 4 PDP11's to do all the ultrasonic weld inspections on the
nuclear fuel rod end plugs.
Did the software in Macro11/RT11SJ over 20 years ago and Version 15 is
still humming along,
though now it's using Mentec's RT11SB.
Ed
South Carolina
I suppose
you're also going to tell me there's a South Carolina! HA!
Nope, I
can't vouch for the existence of either of the Carolinas...
20 Aug
20 Aug
9:08 a.m.
New subject: OT: re:Dakota.
Hans wrote:
>>
>> > Ahhh, but how do you KNOW if you meet someone from North
>> Dakota [or
>> > for fans of Dan Brown, know if they ARE North Dakota...]
>>
>> Well, for starters, IS there a North Dakota?
>> I mean, couln't it be one of the things where THEY want us
>> to belive something which just isn't real?
>>
I can personally attest that both Dakotas are quite real. I have been there.
Since VCF East you should be convinced that I am real. Of course I could be
a member of the conspiracy to promote the Dakotas....
8:44 a.m.
New subject: that OT: Tredennick, u-370, 68000, 5100... thread
>>
He'd heard of France, but never met anyone from there. I
>> feel the same way about North Dakota :-).
>>
Ahhh, but how do you KNOW if you meet someone from North Dakota [or for
of Dan Brown, know if they ARE North Dakota...]
I can't tell them from Minnesotans; hence the possibility that there is no
North Dakota, or that it is a suburb of Minnesota, or something.
:-).
Vince
9:10 a.m.
New subject: that OT: Tredennick, u-370, 68000, 5100... thread
>>
>> I can't tell them from Minnesotans; hence the possibility
>> that there is no North Dakota, or that it is a suburb of
>> Minnesota, or something.
>>
According to Garrison Keller [host of The Praire Home Companion, EVERYTHING
is a suburb of Minnesota!
3:52 a.m.
New subject: u-370 is not a recoded 68000 (was: IBM 5100)
Am 20 Aug 2004 8:27 meinte jim stephens:
> <snip>
> > He's also fairly accessible:
> > http://www.tredennick.com/
> > (I like the background motif he uses on his
web pages :)
> it gets better when you go to his card.
> But I like the crane truck ... that and the other
make a
> fine classic computer rescue vehicle squad :)
<snip>
Also his "home" and "back" buttons are quite fine.
Whatever works for him :))
Best of all, browse around, there are different nice backgrounds :)
--
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http://www.vcfe.org/
6:41 a.m.
New subject: Nick Tredennick at VCF 7.0 (was Re: u-370 is not a recoded 68000 (was: IBM 5100))
On Fri, 20 Aug 2004, jim stephens wrote:
Meet Nick Tredennick at VCF 7.0!
http://vintage.org/2004/main/speaker.php
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<snip>
<snip>
Also his "home" and "back" buttons are quite fine. He's also fairly accessible:
(I like the background motif he uses on his web
pages :)
it gets better when you go to his card.
But I like the crane truck ... that and the other make a
fine classic computer rescue vehicle squad :)
6:48 a.m.
New subject: Nick Tredennick at VCF 7.0 (was Re: u-370 is not a recoded 68000 (was: IBM 5100))
Am 20 Aug 2004 11:41 meinte Vintage Computer Festival:
On Fri, 20 Aug 2004, jim stephens wrote:
> > <snip>
> > > He's also fairly accessible:
> > > http://www.tredennick.com/
> > > (I like the background motif he uses on his web pages :)
> > it gets better when you go to his card.
> > But I like the crane truck ... that and the other make a
> > fine classic computer rescue vehicle squad :)
> <snip>
> Also his "home" and "back" buttons are quite fine.
Meet Nick Tredennick at VCF 7.0!
Well done!
--
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http://www.vcfe.org/
17 Aug
17 Aug
4:23 p.m.
On Tue, Aug 17, 2004 at 10:05:14PM -0400, Ken Seefried wrote:
Actually....you can do that.
The IBM {PC,XT,AT}/370 card(s) (ISA-bus card that put a "baby" IBM S/370 on
your desktop) had a CPU that was a re-microcoded 68000 (emulating some
subset of the IBM S/370 mainframe instruction set). IBM licensed the
architecture from Motorola. Probably got familiar with it building the IBM
9000 Instruments System.
Interesting. I knew about the 370 card sets; didn't know they were descended
from the 68000. I did work with an IBM 9000 at GE
once... really slow, and
the language of choice was Pascal. :-P (fortunately for
me, 99% of my work
was on the 11/73 next to it (I was writing a Computer-Aided Instruction
course in MACRO-11 under RT-11/TSX-11)).
-ethan
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38 comments
14 participants
participants (14)
-
allain＠panix.com -
cisin＠xenosoft.com -
dickset＠amanda.spole.gov -
dvcorbin＠optonline.net -
frustum＠pacbell.net -
geoffreythomas＠onetel.com -
Hans.Franke＠siemens.com -
jpl15＠panix.com -
jwstephens＠msm.umr.edu -
ken＠seefried.com -
pkoning＠equallogic.com -
Pres＠macro-inc.com -
vcf＠siconic.com -
vrs＠msn.com