12 Oct
1997
12 Oct
'97
8:59 a.m.
Hi, folks,
Those in the New York area, heads up! Found this on Usenet...
<NOTE TO BOB SCHOR: I've forwarded your post to a mailing list of folk
who specialize in keeping the old systems alive. If anyone's interested,
they'll respond to you directly>.
-=-=- <snip> -=-=-
Path:
Supernews70!Supernews60!supernews.com!newsfeed.direct.ca!howland.erols.net!portc02.blue.aol.com!pitt.edu!newsfeed.pitt.edu!news
From: Bob Schor <bschor(a)vms.cis.pitt.edu>
Newsgroups: vmsnet.pdp-11
Subject: 11/44 Available in NYC
Date: Sun, 12 Oct 1997 07:11:27 -0400
Organization: University of Pittsburgh
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I have just turned off a PDP-11/44 which has been pretty much
continuously running since the early 1980's (I'm not sure when we got it
from DEC). It is available to anyone who wants it, but
you better act
fast, as others are itching to get the room it is in (and will
probably consign it to the dumpster). There are also two RK06 drives,
but we haven't been using them for perhaps a decade (using a Winchester
disk on a Dilog MSCP controller).
There are also two DZ boards on this system, plus documentation (again,
act quickly!).
Give me a call or send e-mail ASAP. This machine is located at
Rockefeller University in New York City. You would need to Come and Get
It ...
Bob Schor
University of Pittsburgh
(412) 647-2116
bschor(a)vms.cis.pitt.edu
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UNSOLICITED COMMERCIAL E-MAIL SUBJECT TO $500.00 PROOFREADING FEE PER ITEM SENT.
SENDING ME SUCH UNSOLICITED ITEMS CONSTITUTES UNDERSTANDING AND ACCEPTANCE OF THESE
TERMS.
Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave (Fido 1:343/272)
http://www.wizards.net/technoid -- kyrrin2-At-Wizards-Dot-Net
"...Spam is bad. Spam wastes resources. Spam is theft of service. Don't spam,
period..."
12 Oct
12 Oct
12:48 p.m.
New subject: Info on things old wanted...
I received a bit of mail from a buddy:
1) IBM 29 card punch + writer machine fitted into a
desk
2) Bendix DATAGRID Digitizer (a large unit) w/ pad (about 1.5 m by 1 m)
The digitizing machine and pad are connected by some
hefty
wires. Les inspected the works and declared "gonna hafta
cut them wires." Maureen suggested that she take a look
at it first.
Does anyone have any information on these two things? My guess is that the
IBM card machine may be pre-computer (programmed by plugboards, etc.).
Also, if I can not claim these things, does anyone want to? They are
located in Chicago.
William Donzelli
william(a)ans.net
3:22 p.m.
New subject: Info on things old wanted...
On Sun, 12 Oct 1997 20:48:31 -0400 (EDT), you said:
I received a bit of mail from a buddy:
I used an 029 (and a 129) in the mid-sixties to punch cards to be used
on an IBM 360 series (mainframe) computer. (I wasted *hundreds* of
cards trying to make my FORTRAN progs work correctly.)
_______________
Barry Peterson bm_pete(a)ix.netcom.com
Husband to Diane, Father to Doug,
Grandfather to Zoe and Tegan.
1) IBM 29 card punch + writer machine fitted into
a desk
Does anyone have any information on these two things? My guess is that the
IBM card machine may be pre-computer (programmed by plugboards, etc.).
6:27 p.m.
New subject: Info on things old wanted...
On Sun, 12 Oct 1997, William Donzelli wrote:
I received a bit of mail from a buddy:
I'll take a guess here...
A family member of mine runs an embroidery business and she says that
older designs used to be kept on cards (and later on paper tape or
something like that) so this *may* have been used for such work. The
digitizing tablet would lend to this idea as well as many embroidery
designs need to be digitized.
just a guess...
LeS
1) IBM 29 card punch + writer machine fitted into
a desk
2) Bendix DATAGRID Digitizer (a large unit) w/ pad (about 1.5 m by 1 m)
The digitizing machine and pad are connected by
some hefty
wires. Les inspected the works and declared "gonna hafta
cut them wires." Maureen suggested that she take a look
at it first.
Does anyone have any information on these two things? My guess is that the
IBM card machine may be pre-computer (programmed by plugboards, etc.). 
14 Oct
14 Oct
10:36 a.m.
New subject: Info on things old wanted...
Date: Sun, 12 Oct 1997 20:48:31 -0400 (EDT)
Reply-to: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu
From: William Donzelli <william(a)ans.net>
To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers"
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Subject: Info on things old wanted...
X-To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
I received a bit of mail from a buddy:
pre-computer (programmed by plugboards, etc.).
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
WHOAH here !! Just a minute !! Are you trying to say that anything
without a LSI chip or integrated circuit-board is a "pre-computer" ?
This might be the beginning of an epistimological revision to rival
that of the term PC to mean a MSDOS machine or R&R meaning any
kind of new pop music.
Or is it that the caps,diodes, and transistors are miniturized on
modern computer chips ? Or that the instructions for routing of info
for processing is done on disk rather than by plug-boards ?
They'll have to rename the Brabbage Museum to Gates.
Another victory for King Bill !!
Lets hope not.
ciao Larry
lwalkerN0spaM(a)interlog.com
1) IBM 29 card punch + writer machine fitted into
a desk
2) Bendix DATAGRID Digitizer (a large unit) w/ pad (about 1.5 m by 1 m)
The digitizing machine and pad are connected by
some hefty
wires. Les inspected the works and declared "gonna hafta
cut them wires." Maureen suggested that she take a look
at it first.
Does anyone have any information on these two things? My guess is that the
IBM card machine may be
15 Oct
15 Oct
1:23 a.m.
New subject: Info on things old wanted...
Does anyone
have any information on these two things? My guess is that the
IBM card machine may be
pre-computer (programmed by plugboards, etc.).
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
WHOAH here !! Just a minute !! Are you trying to say that anything
without a LSI chip or integrated circuit-board is a "pre-computer" ? This might be the beginning of an epistimological
revision to rival
that of the term PC to mean a MSDOS machine or R&R meaning any
kind of new pop music.
The lines of history are often very blurry. Rarely does anything get
invented or changed in an instant of time. Data processing machines are no
exception, but one does have to come up with some naming conventions, or
use ones already in place. I was just using an existing one.
And no, I never implied that computers started with LSI chips - as a few
of you people know, I collect minis mostly, and two of my machines do not
have integrated circuits at all. I still call them computers (OK, one is
actually a calculator, but I am not going to open that can of worms).
William Donzelli
william(a)ans.net
25 Oct
25 Oct
2:21 p.m.
New subject: Info on things old wanted...
Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 09:23:46 -0400 (EDT)
Reply-to: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu
From: William Donzelli <william(a)ans.net>
To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers"
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: Info on things old wanted...
X-To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Does anyone have any information on these two things?
My guess is that the
IBM card machine may be
pre-computer (programmed by plugboards, etc.).
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
WHOAH here !! Just a minute !! Are you trying to say that anything
without a LSI chip or integrated circuit-board is a "pre-computer" ? This might be the beginning of an
epistimological revision to rival
that of the term PC to mean a MSDOS machine or R&R meaning any
kind of new pop music.
The lines of history are often very blurry. Rarely does anything get
invented or changed in an instant of time. Data processing machines are no
exception, but one does have to come up with some naming conventions, or
use ones already in place. I was just using an existing one.
And no, I never implied that computers started with LSI chips - as a few
of you people know, I collect minis mostly, and two of my machines do not
have integrated circuits at all. I still call them computers (OK, one is
actually a calculator, but I am not going to open that can of worms).
26 Oct
26 Oct
2:33 a.m.
New subject: Info on things old wanted...
Maybe we're talking of different kinds of worms.
: ^ ) but I've
always considered Babbidges machine the first computer.
I've got an old Monroe mechanical calculator in my collection
that I don't call a computer tho it "crunches" numbers , but the
Enniac which was preprogrammed by plugboard IIRC ,is considered a
computer by any authority I've ever read . The 80 col "computer" card
would be a misnomer in that case. The sorters, collators, keypunch,
and compilers I worked on in the 50's tho obviously not computers
were I\O adjuncts just as keyboard, DDs and modems are now.
Plugboards were handwired to delineate paths for info just as
present-day programs do.
Am I missing something from your original post ? Did you mean
pre-processing rather than before the computer era ?
Punched card technology was well established well before what we think of
as the first electronic computers - ENIAC, the ABC machine, etc.. IBM, of
course, was the biggie in the field (and oddly enough, entered the
computing business a bit late), starting sometime in the 1930s.
Was this IBM model 29 used with such ancient systems? Probably not - most
likely it spent its time preparing cards for a System/360.
As far as who developed the first computer - we could argue all day on
that one. There are no distinct lines between technologies or generations.
For example, do analog computers count? At what point does a complex
feedback control become a computer? For example, do the computers used to
direct gunfire count? They date from well before World War 2, and it took
digital machines many years to surpass them in performance, yet I would
not call them computers as we think of them.
William Donzelli
william(a)ans.net
27 Oct
27 Oct
12:02 a.m.
New subject: Info on things old wanted...
William Donzelli wrote:
Punched card technology was well established well before what we think of
as the first electronic computers - ENIAC, the ABC machine, etc.. IBM, of
course, was the biggie in the field (and oddly enough, entered the
computing business a bit late), starting sometime in the 1930s.
I read somewhere that IBM patented the first multiple-word
cardpuncher in 1919. It could punch nine columns at a time. The
photograph showed that the thing used levers that reminded me of the
credit-card embossers used at gas stations.
Jeff
30 Oct
30 Oct
9:46 a.m.
New subject: Info on things old wanted...
As far as who developed the first computer - we could
argue all day on
that one. There are no distinct lines between technologies or generations.
For example, do analog computers count? At what point does a complex
feedback control become a computer? For example, do the computers used to
direct gunfire count? They date from well before World War 2, and it took
digital machines many years to surpass them in performance, yet I would
not call them computers as we think of them.
William Donzelli
william(a)ans.net
This discussion ignited my curiosity and I checked some
source-references. What I had remembered from my digital
course (for me,relatively recent, 1982-83) was that a
computer was defined as a device to control data or processes
containing a CPU, means for I/O, and memory. This is a bigger
can of worms than I had imagined . After going through several
dictionaries, early general computing books and various text-books
and scientific encyclos. it would seem there is no precise
definition of a computer. While there are specific definitions re
the various sub-species (electronic,digital,analogue.mini,mainframe,
etc) the term computer is generally defined by processes.
The simplest being -- -a device that computes.
and the same dictionary (Websters) defines
to compute -- to calculate.
Oh well, we know what we mean, dont we . %^))
Anyone for a flame on game machines ? And I'm not touching on
that gun-control thing with a 10-ft pole.
ciao larry
lwalkerN0spaM(a)interlog.com
4:49 p.m.
New subject: Non-US machines
Just acquired a Memotech MTX-512 computer in almost mint condition including
the original box, packaging, and manual. The only thing it seems to be
missing is one cassette tape that was included as some type of demo or
sample software. I was kind of curious how common this machine might be
here in the US. Aside from the Sinclair, I haven't seen many machines here
that were manufactured in other countries (excluding of course the US
manufacturers who had their machines made overseas.) This one came from a
member of the Santa Barbara PC Users Group who offered it to Stephen Stone,
who accepted it in my behalf which of course I gratefully accepted!
A second machine I have is a Mac8 machine that came from Japan. It was
given to me in kit form by the company owner while I was in Japan about
1981. I did a web search on Alta Vista and wasn't able to come up with any
matches. Does anyone else have one of these and any idea how common or
uncommon they might be? It is an S-100 machine with a front panal with
lights and switches ala Altair or Imsai, uses either an 8080 or Z80 (can't
remember which), has a 4K memory board and an SIO board. I will have a
picture up in a few more minutes at http://www.rain.org/~marvin/mac8.jpg.
31 Oct
31 Oct
5:59 a.m.
New subject: Non-US machines
On Thu, 30 Oct 1997, Marvin wrote:
Just acquired a Memotech MTX-512 computer in almost
mint condition including
the original box, packaging, and manual. The only thing it seems to be
missing is one cassette tape that was included as some type of demo or
sample software. I was kind of curious how common this machine might be
here in the US. Aside from the Sinclair, I haven't seen many machines here
that were manufactured in other countries (excluding of course the US
manufacturers who had their machines made overseas.) This one came from a
member of the Santa Barbara PC Users Group who offered it to Stephen Stone,
who accepted it in my behalf which of course I gratefully accepted!
I don't know about the MTX-512, but since both UniForm and 22Disk list
other Memotech models, e.g. MaxBP (3.5") and FDX (5.25"), they are not
total strangers.
- don
A second machine I have is a Mac8 machine that came
from Japan. It was
given to me in kit form by the company owner while I was in Japan about
1981. I did a web search on Alta Vista and wasn't able to come up with any
matches. Does anyone else have one of these and any idea how common or
uncommon they might be? It is an S-100 machine with a front panal with
lights and switches ala Altair or Imsai, uses either an 8080 or Z80 (can't
remember which), has a 4K memory board and an SIO board. I will have a
picture up in a few more minutes at http://www.rain.org/~marvin/mac8.jpg.
donm(a)cts.com
*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*
Don Maslin - Keeper of the Dina-SIG CP/M System Disk Archives
Chairman, Dina-SIG of the San Diego Computer Society
Clinging tenaciously to the trailing edge of technology.
Sysop - Elephant's Graveyard (CP/M) - 619-454-8412
*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*
see old system support at http://www.psyber.com/~tcj
10:12 a.m.
New subject: Non-US machines
On Thu, 30 Oct 1997, Marvin wrote:
Just acquired a Memotech MTX-512 computer in almost
mint condition including
the original box, packaging, and manual. The only thing it seems to be
missing is one cassette tape that was included as some type of demo or
sample software. I was kind of curious how common this machine might be
here in the US. Aside from the Sinclair, I haven't seen many <snip>
Before the MTX-512, Memotech made accessories for Sinclair machines and
marketed them in the US. I remember getting direct mail advertisements
from Memotech for low-wobble RAM packs, RS-232
interfaces, and high
resolution graphics packs for the ZX81/TS1000. After the
introduction of
the MTX-512, Memotech had a trade in offer that allowed Sinclair users to
trade in their machines (as well as any Memotech ZX81 peripherals) on a
new MTX-512. I didn't take advantage of the offer, but I would imagine
that it was sent out to many members of US Timex/Sinclair user's groups,
which, at the time, probably included a relatively substantial number of
people. Of course, advertising doesn't necessarily result in sales - I've
never come across an MTX-512 in my years of scrounging.
As an aside, I'll probably put the first part of my web site on line this
weekend. I'll post the URL when it's available. I plan to concentrate on
the machines in my collection that are the least well represented on the
Web, starting with the Expander, a somewhat Sol-like system designed by
Lee Felsenstein for use in Sweden. If anyone has additional information
on the Expander, please let me know. I don't have any documentation for
this machine, so my current knowledge of the Expander is based on hardware
observations, comparisons with the SOL-20, and the interview with Lee
Felsenstein in CHAC's "Analytical Engine" version 3.2.
Guess I should have gone to the VCF...
--
Scott Ware s-ware(a)nwu.edu
15 Oct
15 Oct
7:03 p.m.
New subject: Would be drop out
I asked before but got no reply. Can anyone tell me how to
a. drop off the list
b. switch from firehose to digest mode
?
Please excuse the excessive bandwidth.
--
Mark W Kuefel
kuefel(a)sky.net
and THE COLISEUM SLAVE (Netwrecker II)
6:28 p.m.
New subject: Would be drop out
Mark W Kuefel wrote:
I asked before but got no reply. Can anyone tell me
how to
a. drop off the list
b. switch from firehose to digest mode
?
Since the process to subscribe to the listserver is:
Send a message to listproc(a)u.washington.edu with the line
subscribe CLASSICCMP your-address
in the body of the message.
I suspect the process to unsubscribe would be the same except to substitute
"unsubscribe" for the word "subscribe" in the above message.
6:41 p.m.
New subject: Neat find: Maxx Steele Robot
I visited a local thrift store today and found a Maxx Steele Robot for about
$10.00 untested. It looked like a lot of fun so I picked it up. The robot
came with the charger, manual, controller, no battery, and some sort of hand
mirror which I am guessing can be used in some manner to control it. It
didn't have a battery so I put a 12 volt gel cell in it, but it still didn't
work. A number of engineers were here tonight, and while I was cooking, they
ended up getting the thing to work (the gel cell I used was either
uncharged, or there was a bad connection to the battery.) In looking around
the web, it seems that it uses a 65C02 processor as the CPU. One web page I
found indicated that there were only about 5000 of these things made. I
hadn't really planned to collect robots ... but then again, I hadn't planned
on collecting computers either :).
9684
days inactive
9703
days old
15 comments
10 participants
participants (10)
-
bmpete＠swbell.net -
donm＠cts.com -
Jeff.Kaneko＠ifrsys.com -
kuefel＠sky.net -
kyrrin2＠wizards.net -
lwalker＠mail.interlog.com -
marvin＠rain.org -
more＠camlaw.rutgers.edu -
ware＠xtal.pharm.nwu.edu -
william＠ans.net