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Nominally we are a "friendly" group of similar, yet diverse collectors and admirers of old computers. We are not businesses. There is a difference in what ethics are appropriate. The ethics of taking advantage of mistakes people make is very questionable to me. I give the money back if a person makes a mistake giving me change. I also take the free pie when the grocery scanner rings up the wrong price. Some transactions deserve conscious consideration of the ethics before acting, but the situation above I think is pretty clear. I would not accept an item with that much value without telling the person and giving them a chance to reconsider. If I really wanted the item I would either make a "fair" offer for it (cash or better a trade, like value for like value), or bid on it with the rest of unwashed and extract some quid pro quo later on.

At 06:57 PM 10/13/99 +0100, Tony Duell wrote: Yes, exactly. Someone on this list warned me these manuals were highly sought. The auction on eBay just ended at $169. I listed the second manual this morning, and I hope it goes for as much. Yes, I rescinded my offer once I realized my mistake. I entertained the notion I was the subject of a joke, frankly. I couldn't believe this manual could be worth ~$200. Wouldn't it be nasty to tell someone that their spare 5 1/4 PC floppy might be worth $300, if you hated eBay? So I sent a note to the several people who'd responded to my free offer, and no one complained outright. Perhaps they ran away in disgust, but I didn't think it was a big deal. You're right, I'd made a mistake. But it was one guy who wasn't even asking for the manual who stepped forward to tell me it was worth considerably more than zero. I was being generous, giving away something I thought had no value. If there was actual money involved - that is, if I'd said I'll sell this manual for $10 and someone stepped forward - well, I'd probably feel the same way you described, a deal's a deal. I have no doubt there that a sense of community ethics arise in mailing lists like this. I don't think I crossed the line. In fact, I certainly thought my penance (to who? The mailing list god?) of offering some rare Amiga-head posters to the list would make up for getting close to the line. I understand the collector / enthusiast / speculator angle. I don't buy the argument that anyone spending too much money on eBay must have a black heart, though. Right now, ~$300 gives me more of a thrill. I have no way of judging the sincerity of those who asked for the free manuals. Do you? How can I distinguish the True SGI Enthusiast from the one without an SGI who will put it on the shelf? As a side note, I have an e-mail folder half-full of similar deals-gone-south. I can't tell you how many times people have offered something here, or on news groups, then not responded, or responded and then never followed through, etc. I don't get too worked up about it. - John

I disagree. Lots of times the transaction is just not that simple, or clean. Mistakes happen, I make them, the other person makes them. The ethical thing in a friendly transaction is that when it is discovered that a "mistake" was made, the transaction stops and goes back to square one. While I am pleased to know the ethical standards and practices of the rest of the list, the standards and practices I have to live with are my own. I am more concerned with how I "feel" about my actions, than how well I followed some set of rules. Two examples; One of the first things I offered to this list were some adapter cables for a token amount of $5. I felt pretty stupid when I found out what a fair market price was, and still think about it when I am about to offer something else cheap. Getting me up and out to a swapmeet at 7 am requires about all the willpower I have. The reason I do it is that that is the time many good items sell. So I walk up to a space, and kind of dumped in the back is a box of cables etc. I poke through it, pick up a couple items, but also take a good mental inventory, and start thinking about buying the whole box. When the seller comes over I ask him the price of the cables, and I respond to his price by dropping about 2/3 of what I have in my hand back in the box. How much for the whole box goes back and forth between us. Several things kind of happen at the same time, he quotes me a price for the box, I continue to dicker with him, another guy comes up and starts going through the box, I offer to pay the price he quoted me including letting the present person take a few of the cables. Now he tells me its too early to sell the whole box, and after some back and forth, not too heated, but making it clear I don't like having purchase terms changed, I leave. The box is immediately sold to the other guy for 2 1/2 times what it was offered to me for. This last one is especially bitter since it includes all the essential bitter ingredients, me being stupid and greedy, as well as someone else. All of us did things wrong, all of us were greedy, but I like to think that I am a "bit" cleaner than the other two since I didn't end up with either money or goods. The buyer still doesn't have a clue about swapmeet manners, rule number one, don't jump in the middle of another persons deal. The seller at least I think was aware of crossing a ethical line. Me, I haven't learned a thing. ;)

I have an old, 60's I would guess or older, tube type Dumont oscilliscope. I used it for audio stuff 15 years ago, and its been setting in the cool dry of my former studio since then. Cosmetic is pretty good, but I don't think I would just plug it in and hope for the best. Anyway I am not keeping it, either it sells for like $10 or I harvest the tubes and dump the carcass (what a nasty fellow). Email me if you are local and interested. It may ride with me to the Cal Poly Pomona hamfest in the morning. (sat 10/16). I will be the large geek in fishing hat with a bucket.

OK, I was able to remove the keyboard from my Franklin 1000. (There were a couple of keys that were not working at all. Since they were the return key and the space bar, it made using this machine quite interesting, to say the least) The keyswitches seem to be totally sealed (its a Key Tronic 3483), and not even a shot of TV tuner cleaner helped. So, I'm wondering where I could get a replacement keyboard for this machine, or barring that, I might consider selling it for some nominal fee + shipping. (I have other spare Apples lying about, and I have limited time and facilities for major repairs such as unsoldering keyswitches) Let me know what you think, and thanks in advance! ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Charles P. Hobbs __ __ ____ ___ ___ ____ transit(a)primenet.com /__)/__) / / / / /_ /\ / /_ / / / \ / / / / /__ / \/ /___ / -------------------------------------------------------------------------------