24 Apr
2002
24 Apr
'02
4:50 p.m.
I got this URL
for an article in Scientific American that seems
appropriate for this group :). The
last paragraph reads:
"Evidently, the something-for-everyone model epitomized by Heathkit and
the Amateur Scientist column can't compete anymore. Specialized sources
and Internet newsgroups cater to each skill level. But much of the
mentoring and serendipity that the diverse community of amateurs offered
has been lost. It is hard not to regret its passing." 
24 Apr
24 Apr
6:01 p.m.
I don't know if this is true. In the last five years,
I've found projects and parts I would never have dared
to imagine doing or owning, as a result of the
Internet and Google. I lived in a major city as a kid,
and even its large library was nothing compared to an
Internet account and a used $200 PC. I like to point
out that Issac Asimov imagined that people would have
a terminal in their homes from which all information
would be accessible. But his books were generally
written as though they were hundreds of years in the
future. This is better, and this is right now.
Collaboration across great distances is easy, and
projects can be done by virtual groups - like the one
I've read about in this group reconstructing source
code from an AIM-65. I didn't even KNOW anyone in my
city interested in things I was interested in, and I
wouldn't have known how to find them anyway if there
were any.
I do miss the "Amateur Scientist" atricles in
Scientific American. The projects often had real
scienfic merit, were all absolutely ingeniously
simple, and were occasionally mind-bogglingly
dangerous, i.e., "fun". I built an infrared laser in
high school from one of those articles so powerful I
took it apart 1/2 hour after finishing it! Invisible,
and capable of shattering glass while reflecting of
off surfaces that didn't seem to be reflective. Wow!
As far as the items listed at the bottom of the
article, I have one word to say: Google. I found all
of this stuff in 2 minutes 20 seconds, on a dialup -
and several sources to choose from.
Still, I do wish that there was a place for the
"generalist" to go on the Internet. What the Internet
needs is an authoratative and often-updated list of
common mechanical and electronic surplus supplies for
hobbyists.
--- "Douglas H. Quebbeman" <dquebbeman(a)acm.org> wrote:
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Games - play chess, backgammon, pool and more
http://games.yahoo.com/
> I got this URL for an article in Scientific
American that seems
appropriate for this group :). The last paragraph
reads:
"Evidently, the something-for-everyone model
epitomized by Heathkit and
the Amateur Scientist column can't compete
anymore. Specialized sources
and Internet newsgroups cater to each skill
level.
But much of the
mentoring and serendipity that the diverse
community of amateurs offered
has been lost. It is hard not to regret its
passing."
Well, I didn't know this about Edmund Scientific.
Crap. I've
been looking for the older catalogs, now even the
more recent
ones I've got will become collectable unobtainium.
Where will I buy water wetter?
Where will I buy Nitonol wire?
Where will I buy flock paper?
Where will I buy cheap assortment of lab glassware?
Where will I buy an ultrasonic cleaner?
Where will I buy a good Chinese microscope?
and so on...
<sob!>
9:48 p.m.
That was the copper-vapour thingy ?
Sipke de Wal
-----------------------------------
http://xgistor.ath.cx
-----------------------------------
----- Original Message -----
From: "Loboyko Steve" <sloboyko(a)yahoo.com>
To: <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org>
Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2002 5:01 AM
Subject: Re: .I.P. for D.I.Y.
I don't know if this is true. In the last five
years,
I've found projects and parts I would never have dared
to imagine doing or owning, as a result of the
Internet and Google. I lived in a major city as a kid,
and even its large library was nothing compared to an
Internet account and a used $200 PC. I like to point
out that Issac Asimov imagined that people would have
a terminal in their homes from which all information
would be accessible. But his books were generally
written as though they were hundreds of years in the
future. This is better, and this is right now.
Collaboration across great distances is easy, and
projects can be done by virtual groups - like the one
I've read about in this group reconstructing source
code from an AIM-65. I didn't even KNOW anyone in my
city interested in things I was interested in, and I
wouldn't have known how to find them anyway if there
were any.
I do miss the "Amateur Scientist" atricles in
Scientific American. The projects often had real
scienfic merit, were all absolutely ingeniously
simple, and were occasionally mind-bogglingly
dangerous, i.e., "fun". I built an infrared laser in
high school from one of those articles so powerful I
took it apart 1/2 hour after finishing it! Invisible,
and capable of shattering glass while reflecting of
off surfaces that didn't seem to be reflective. Wow!
As far as the items listed at the bottom of the
article, I have one word to say: Google. I found all
of this stuff in 2 minutes 20 seconds, on a dialup -
and several sources to choose from.
Still, I do wish that there was a place for the
"generalist" to go on the Internet. What the Internet
needs is an authoratative and often-updated list of
common mechanical and electronic surplus supplies for
hobbyists.
--- "Douglas H. Quebbeman" <dquebbeman(a)acm.org> wrote:
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Games - play chess, backgammon, pool and more
http://games.yahoo.com/
> I got this URL for an article in Scientific
American that seems
appropriate for this group :). The last paragraph
reads:
"Evidently, the something-for-everyone model
epitomized by Heathkit and
the Amateur Scientist column can't compete
anymore. Specialized sources
and Internet newsgroups cater to each skill
level.
But much of the
mentoring and serendipity that the diverse
community of amateurs offered
has been lost. It is hard not to regret its
passing."
Well, I didn't know this about Edmund Scientific.
Crap. I've
been looking for the older catalogs, now even the
more recent
ones I've got will become collectable unobtainium.
Where will I buy water wetter?
Where will I buy Nitonol wire?
Where will I buy flock paper?
Where will I buy cheap assortment of lab glassware?
Where will I buy an ultrasonic cleaner?
Where will I buy a good Chinese microscope?
and so on...
<sob!>
10:54 p.m.
I believe it was the CO2 laser, An associate of mine at OMSI
built one in the late 70's It didn't have much power, but his
HV power supply wasn't up to the job. I never saw the copper vapor
laser, so it could be.
Jim Davis
Sipke de Wal wrote:
That was the copper-vapour thingy ?
Sipke de Wal
-----------------------------------
http://xgistor.ath.cx
-----------------------------------
----- Original Message -----
From: "Loboyko Steve" <sloboyko(a)yahoo.com>
To: <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org>
Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2002 5:01 AM
Subject: Re: .I.P. for D.I.Y.
> I don't know if this is true. In the last five years,
> I've found projects and parts I would never have dared
> to imagine doing or owning, as a result of the
> Internet and Google. I lived in a major city as a kid,
> and even its large library was nothing compared to an
> Internet account and a used $200 PC. I like to point
> out that Issac Asimov imagined that people would have
> a terminal in their homes from which all information
> would be accessible. But his books were generally
> written as though they were hundreds of years in the
> future. This is better, and this is right now.
> Collaboration across great distances is easy, and
> projects can be done by virtual groups - like the one
> I've read about in this group reconstructing source
> code from an AIM-65. I didn't even KNOW anyone in my
> city interested in things I was interested in, and I
> wouldn't have known how to find them anyway if there
> were any.
>
> I do miss the "Amateur Scientist" atricles in
> Scientific American. The projects often had real
> scienfic merit, were all absolutely ingeniously
> simple, and were occasionally mind-bogglingly
> dangerous, i.e., "fun". I built an infrared laser in
> high school from one of those articles so powerful I
> took it apart 1/2 hour after finishing it! Invisible,
> and capable of shattering glass while reflecting of
> off surfaces that didn't seem to be reflective. Wow!
>
> As far as the items listed at the bottom of the
> article, I have one word to say: Google. I found all
> of this stuff in 2 minutes 20 seconds, on a dialup -
> and several sources to choose from.
>
> Still, I do wish that there was a place for the
> "generalist" to go on the Internet. What the Internet
> needs is an authoratative and often-updated list of
> common mechanical and electronic surplus supplies for
> hobbyists.
>
>
>
>
>
> --- "Douglas H. Quebbeman" <dquebbeman(a)acm.org> wrote:
> >
> > >> I got this URL for an article in Scientific
> > American that seems
> > > appropriate for this group :). The last paragraph
> > reads:
> > >
> > > "Evidently, the something-for-everyone model
> > epitomized by Heathkit and
> > > the Amateur Scientist column can't compete
> > anymore. Specialized sources
> > > and Internet newsgroups cater to each skill level.
> > But much of the
> > > mentoring and serendipity that the diverse
> > community of amateurs offered
> > > has been lost. It is hard not to regret its
> > passing."
> >
> > Well, I didn't know this about Edmund Scientific.
> > Crap. I've
> > been looking for the older catalogs, now even the
> > more recent
> > ones I've got will become collectable unobtainium.
> >
> > Where will I buy water wetter?
> > Where will I buy Nitonol wire?
> > Where will I buy flock paper?
> > Where will I buy cheap assortment of lab glassware?
> > Where will I buy an ultrasonic cleaner?
> > Where will I buy a good Chinese microscope?
> >
> > and so on...
> >
> > <sob!>
> >
> >
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Games - play chess, backgammon, pool and more
> http://games.yahoo.com/
25 Apr
25 Apr
2:15 a.m.
Steve,
You're quite right about the availability of DIY items IF you're motivated to
look for them. Without the (dare I say it?) Radio Shack kits, Edmund Scientific catalogs,
and Amateur Scientist articles how many young people will even develope an interest in DIY
projects? The internet could even work against developing DIY interest given the wide
availability of emulators and simulators on the web.
I've been going to hamfest for a LOT of years and one thing that I've noticed is
that there's practically zero interest in building stuff any more. Parts and tools
that used to be very sought after now go begging.
My $.02 worth,
Joe
At 08:01 PM 4/24/02 -0700, Steve wrote:
I don't know if this is true. In the last five
years,
I've found projects and parts I would never have dared
to imagine doing or owning, as a result of the
Internet and Google. I lived in a major city as a kid,
and even its large library was nothing compared to an
Internet account and a used $200 PC. I like to point
out that Issac Asimov imagined that people would have
a terminal in their homes from which all information
would be accessible. But his books were generally
written as though they were hundreds of years in the
future. This is better, and this is right now.
Collaboration across great distances is easy, and
projects can be done by virtual groups - like the one
I've read about in this group reconstructing source
code from an AIM-65. I didn't even KNOW anyone in my
city interested in things I was interested in, and I
wouldn't have known how to find them anyway if there
were any.
I do miss the "Amateur Scientist" atricles in
Scientific American. The projects often had real
scienfic merit, were all absolutely ingeniously
simple, and were occasionally mind-bogglingly
dangerous, i.e., "fun". I built an infrared laser in
high school from one of those articles so powerful I
took it apart 1/2 hour after finishing it! Invisible,
and capable of shattering glass while reflecting of
off surfaces that didn't seem to be reflective. Wow!
As far as the items listed at the bottom of the
article, I have one word to say: Google. I found all
of this stuff in 2 minutes 20 seconds, on a dialup -
and several sources to choose from.
Still, I do wish that there was a place for the
"generalist" to go on the Internet. What the Internet
needs is an authoratative and often-updated list of
common mechanical and electronic surplus supplies for
hobbyists.
--- "Douglas H. Quebbeman" <dquebbeman(a)acm.org> wrote:
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Games - play chess, backgammon, pool and more
http://games.yahoo.com/
> I got this URL for an article in Scientific
American that seems
appropriate for this group :). The last paragraph
reads:
"Evidently, the something-for-everyone model
epitomized by Heathkit and
the Amateur Scientist column can't compete
anymore. Specialized sources
and Internet newsgroups cater to each skill
level.
But much of the
mentoring and serendipity that the diverse
community of amateurs offered
has been lost. It is hard not to regret its
passing."
Well, I didn't know this about Edmund Scientific.
Crap. I've
been looking for the older catalogs, now even the
more recent
ones I've got will become collectable unobtainium.
Where will I buy water wetter?
Where will I buy Nitonol wire?
Where will I buy flock paper?
Where will I buy cheap assortment of lab glassware?
Where will I buy an ultrasonic cleaner?
Where will I buy a good Chinese microscope?
and so on...
<sob!>
5:01 a.m.
I've been going to hamfest for a LOT of years
and one thing
that I've noticed is that there's practically zero interest in
building stuff any more. Parts and tools that used to be very
sought after now go begging.
I'll agree - but perhaps the main reason is that
modern components are
almost impossible for the home builder ... and only the odd few (Tony? :-)
want to spend lots of time and a fair bit of money to build something that
is usually less capable than a less expensive commercial product.
Andy
6:17 a.m.
The main reason for DIY is IMNSHO for the *fun* of learning. And that
will translate into the sheer joy of *doing*! The people *I* know who
extremely competent are also the same people who enjoy building,
tinkering, etc. On the other hand, most of the people I know who are not
extremely competent at building, tinkering, etc. *are* very good couch
potatoes. It seems to be a matter of motivation.
Andy Holt wrote:
> I've been going to hamfest for a LOT of years and one thing
> that I've noticed is that there's practically zero interest in
> building stuff any more. Parts and tools that used to be very
> sought after now go begging.
I'll agree - but perhaps the main reason is that
modern components are
almost impossible for the home builder ... and only the odd few (Tony? :-)
want to spend lots of time and a fair bit of money to build something that
is usually less capable than a less expensive commercial product.
12:04 p.m.
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1:23 p.m.
Tony Duell wrote:
Hands Tony the Book 'Grave digging made easy from
inside the coffin for
dummies'.
--
Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu *
www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html
The main reason for DIY is IMNSHO for the *fun* of learning. And that
Yes, it never fails to amaze me that there are people out there who
don't enjoy learning. The day I stop learning will be the day I'm '6 feet
under' and not before !
6:23 a.m.
Andy Holt wrote:
Still things that are mechanical and less mass market are built today.
When was the last time you built a TV?
Most people today just have children watch tv or surf the net rather
than encourage other activities.
BTW Nuclear fusion on the small scale in a interesting hobby for the
man who has done everything.
http://www.mathematik.uni-marburg.de/~kronjaeg/hv/fusor/construction/index.…
--
Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu *
www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html
I've been going to hamfest for a LOT of
years and one thing
that I've noticed is that there's practically zero interest in
building stuff any more. Parts and tools that used to be very
sought after now go begging.
I'll agree - but perhaps the main reason is that
modern components are
almost impossible for the home builder ... and only the odd few (Tony? :-)
want to spend lots of time and a fair bit of money to build something that
is usually less capable than a less expensive commercial product.
12:08 p.m.
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5:08 p.m.
I just couldn't let this one go by... About 1968 IIRC. Heathkit 25"
RCA. Literally a bazillion parts. Without Eico, Dynaco, Heathkit and the
like, the world is a less interesting place...
Jim
Ben Franchuk wrote:
Still things that are mechanical and less mass market are built today.
When was the last time you built a TV?
6:23 p.m.
Jim Arnott wrote:
I just couldn't let this one go by... About 1968
IIRC. Heathkit 25"
RCA. Literally a bazillion parts. Without Eico, Dynaco, Heathkit and the
like, the world is a less interesting place...
I suspected back then.
> Still things that are mechanical and less mass
market are built today.
> When was the last time you built a TV?
BTW I picked up small B&W TV about 1988. For $59 (canadian) it came with
a owners manual and a schematic. About 4 IC's and few odd parts.Strange
for
$599.95 (candian) for a new set the only information you get is what is
printed
on the box.: (
--
Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu *
www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html
11:55 a.m.
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11:42 a.m.
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27 Apr
27 Apr
12:07 a.m.
On Thursday 25 April 2002 06:15, you wrote:
I've been going to hamfest for a LOT of years and one thing that I've
noticed is that there's practically zero interest in building stuff any
more. Parts and tools that used to be very sought after now go begging.
I built my first 4-1000A amp when i was 14 years old.
I still have an extensive collection of tubes sockets blowers
Jennings Vac caps, big HV oil caps and a few leftover
pole pigs to build 3 - 7000 volt supplies from.
Its a good thing too, because your right, the people that
know how to build things are becoming rare
I blame the dumbing down in our schools, "earth day"
Marxism, smart aint cool culture.
Those of us that learned how the universe works beginning
in electronics, swapped out our own burnt buss drivers
in our altairs and trs80's are becomming rare.
And electronics isnt the only field, when clinton came in
we had over 12,000 foundres in the US, now there are less
than 40 in the whole country and the talent is being lost.
Perhaps before China shoots the Nukes that Clinton
gave em on the rockets clinton gave them we can
ask for a "time out",, and ask em to make parts for our
jets.
Raymond
9:45 a.m.
New subject: Should Be: RIP for US industry! Re: .I.P. for D.I.Y.
At 04:07 AM 4/27/02 -0500, Raymond wrote:
On Thursday 25 April 2002 06:15, you wrote:
Perhaps before China shoots the Nukes that Clinton
gave em on the rockets clinton gave them we can
ask for a "time out",, and ask em to make parts for our
jets.
Where have you been? They're already building many parts for Boeing. (Hmmm. I
wonder if that might have something to do with Boeing laying off ~14,000 in the NW US
recently?)
Joe
25 Apr
25 Apr
2:20 a.m.
At 09:50 PM 4/24/02 -0400, Doug asked:
>Where will I buy water wetter?
E-bay.
>and so on...
Take a guess!
Joe
><sob!
Where will I buy Nitonol wire?
E-bay.
Where will I buy flock paper?
E-bay.
Where will I buy cheap assortment of lab glassware?
E-bay.
Where will I buy an ultrasonic cleaner?
E-bay.
Where will I buy a good Chinese microscope?
E-bay.
11:18 a.m.
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8099
days inactive
8102
days old
18 comments
11 participants
participants (11)
-
andyh＠andyh-rayleigh.freeserve.co.uk -
ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk -
bfranchuk＠jetnet.ab.ca -
dquebbeman＠acm.org -
jimdavis＠gorge.net -
jrasite＠eoni.com -
marvin＠rain.org -
rigdonj＠cfl.rr.com -
rmoyers＠nop.org -
sipke＠wxs.nl -
sloboyko＠yahoo.com