14 Aug
2012
14 Aug
'12
10:20 a.m.
Hi folks,
I'm a little concerned about the load that my PDP-11 cabinet (rack mount,
dual RL02 drives) is putting on the floor in my daylight basement. Also,
I'm thinking that recovering the space might be nice, so I was considering
moving the PDP-11 system back to the garage.
If any of you have a PDP or other big-iron systems in the garage, how do
you deal with temperature extremes (hot in summer, cold in winter)? Do you
simply not operate the computer when it's too hot or cold? Do you think
it's a risk to even store the system in the garage?
My location is Portland, Oregon, so it doesn't really get super cold in the
winter. I think the coldest I've measured in the garage is 50F. But
summer can get pretty warm. It's scheduled to get 85F today, and we had
100F a week or two ago. Of course the garage doesn't get as hot as outside
temps, but it can get up there.
I realize heat can be a big enemy of computers/electronics. Also, since
the RL02 drives are mechanical and precision devices, they might not take
well to temperature shifts.
Thoughts?
- Earl
14 Aug
14 Aug
9:45 p.m.
Greetings Earl!
In a former house I seriously considered taking the heat generated in a computer rack and
directing it into the overhead ductwork in the daylight basement.
I would think that if you can keep the room humanly comfortable your halfway there.
George Rachor
Sent from my iPhone
george at rachors.com
On Aug 14, 2012, at 11:20 AM, Earl Evans <earl at retrobits.com> wrote:
Hi folks,
I'm a little concerned about the load that my PDP-11 cabinet (rack mount,
dual RL02 drives) is putting on the floor in my daylight basement. Also,
I'm thinking that recovering the space might be nice, so I was considering
moving the PDP-11 system back to the garage.
If any of you have a PDP or other big-iron systems in the garage, how do
you deal with temperature extremes (hot in summer, cold in winter)? Do you
simply not operate the computer when it's too hot or cold? Do you think
it's a risk to even store the system in the garage?
My location is Portland, Oregon, so it doesn't really get super cold in the
winter. I think the coldest I've measured in the garage is 50F. But
summer can get pretty warm. It's scheduled to get 85F today, and we had
100F a week or two ago. Of course the garage doesn't get as hot as outside
temps, but it can get up there.
I realize heat can be a big enemy of computers/electronics. Also, since
the RL02 drives are mechanical and precision devices, they might not take
well to temperature shifts.
Thoughts?
- Earl
9:56 p.m.
On 08/14/2012 02:20 PM, Earl Evans wrote:
I'm a little concerned about the load that my
PDP-11 cabinet (rack mount,
dual RL02 drives) is putting on the floor in my daylight basement. Also,
I'm thinking that recovering the space might be nice, so I was considering
moving the PDP-11 system back to the garage.
If any of you have a PDP or other big-iron systems in the garage, how do
you deal with temperature extremes (hot in summer, cold in winter)? Do you
simply not operate the computer when it's too hot or cold? Do you think
it's a risk to even store the system in the garage?
My location is Portland, Oregon, so it doesn't really get super cold in the
winter. I think the coldest I've measured in the garage is 50F. But
summer can get pretty warm. It's scheduled to get 85F today, and we had
100F a week or two ago. Of course the garage doesn't get as hot as outside
temps, but it can get up there.
I realize heat can be a big enemy of computers/electronics. Also, since
the RL02 drives are mechanical and precision devices, they might not take
well to temperature shifts.
Thoughts?
I would definitely *not* do it. Many people here have restored
garage-kept PDP-11s...point being that, after a few years of that, they
require restoration.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
15 Aug
15 Aug
5:45 a.m.
On Wednesday (08/15/2012 at 01:56AM -0400), Dave McGuire wrote:
I concur with Dave's assessment. I have been "fortunate" to have received
and restored equipment that has been kept in garages and barns here in MN
and the worst damage has been done by bugs and mice. The second worst
by humidity. The liquids emitted by the critters corrode contacts,
PCB traces, rot plastics and generally ruin any piece of equipment.
You'll have to ensure that none of these move into the gear.
I also find that high humidity corrodes contacts and metal surfaces.
You'll find what should be nice clean shiney contacts in connectors all
turned green or grey and pitted. I've seen this happen even to gear
that's been in people's damp basements.
My guidance, don't make these machines live where you wouldn't want
to live.
Chris
--
Chris Elmquist
If any of you
have a PDP or other big-iron systems in the garage, how do
you deal with temperature extremes (hot in summer, cold in winter)? Do you
simply not operate the computer when it's too hot or cold? Do you think
it's a risk to even store the system in the garage?
My location is Portland, Oregon, so it doesn't really get super cold in the
winter. I think the coldest I've measured in the garage is 50F. But
summer can get pretty warm. It's scheduled to get 85F today, and we had
100F a week or two ago. Of course the garage doesn't get as hot as outside
temps, but it can get up there.
I realize heat can be a big enemy of computers/electronics. Also, since
the RL02 drives are mechanical and precision devices, they might not take
well to temperature shifts.
Thoughts?
I would definitely *not* do it. Many people here have restored
garage-kept PDP-11s...point being that, after a few years of that, they
require restoration. 
6:10 a.m.
At 8:45 AM -0500 8/15/12, Chris Elmquist wrote:
I also find that high humidity corrodes contacts and
metal surfaces.
You'll find what should be nice clean shiney contacts in connectors all
turned green or grey and pitted. I've seen this happen even to gear
that's been in people's damp basements.
The Portland area has more of a problem with Humidity than extremes
of heat, especially outside of July-Sept. My equipment is stored in
the Garage, and I keep a dehumidifier running out there.
Honestly the garage is a far better storage location than the
"heated" storage units I had the collection in for many years.
Zane
--
| Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator |
| healyzh at aracnet.com | OpenVMS Enthusiast |
| | Photographer |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
| My flickr Photostream |
| http://www.flickr.com/photos/33848088 at N03/ |
| My Photography Website |
| http://www.zanesphotography.com |
4:21 p.m.
I would be concerned by the temperature fluctuations. I had problem in a machine shop that
wasn't heated because the temperature would rise in the morning, causing moisture to
condense on the cool machinery. Some of them still have rust from that.
--------
Paul Anderson -- VE3HOP
On 2012-08-15, at 1:56 AM, Dave McGuire <mcguire at neurotica.com> wrote:
On 08/14/2012 02:20 PM, Earl Evans wrote:
I'm a little concerned about the load that my
PDP-11 cabinet (rack mount,
dual RL02 drives) is putting on the floor in my daylight basement. Also,
I'm thinking that recovering the space might be nice, so I was considering
moving the PDP-11 system back to the garage.
If any of you have a PDP or other big-iron systems in the garage, how do
you deal with temperature extremes (hot in summer, cold in winter)? Do you
simply not operate the computer when it's too hot or cold? Do you think
it's a risk to even store the system in the garage?
My location is Portland, Oregon, so it doesn't really get super cold in the
winter. I think the coldest I've measured in the garage is 50F. But
summer can get pretty warm. It's scheduled to get 85F today, and we had
100F a week or two ago. Of course the garage doesn't get as hot as outside
temps, but it can get up there.
I realize heat can be a big enemy of computers/electronics. Also, since
the RL02 drives are mechanical and precision devices, they might not take
well to temperature shifts.
Thoughts?
I would definitely *not* do it. Many people here have restored
garage-kept PDP-11s...point being that, after a few years of that, they
require restoration.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA 
6:32 p.m.
sounds like the 8a i rescuded from an abandond building sat for 9yrs in
unheated building going from -40+40 in those 9 yrs
On Wed, Aug 15, 2012 at 7:21 PM, Paul Anderson <wackyvorlon at me.com> wrote:
I would be concerned by the temperature fluctuations.
I had problem in a
machine shop that wasn't heated because the temperature would rise in the
morning, causing moisture to condense on the cool machinery. Some of them
still have rust from that.
--------
Paul Anderson -- VE3HOP
On 2012-08-15, at 1:56 AM, Dave McGuire <mcguire at neurotica.com> wrote:
On 08/14/2012 02:20 PM, Earl Evans wrote:
> I'm a little concerned about the load that my PDP-11 cabinet (rack
mount,
> dual RL02 drives) is putting on the floor in
my daylight basement.
Also,
> I'm thinking that recovering the space
might be nice, so I was
considering
> moving the PDP-11 system back to the garage.
>
> If any of you have a PDP or other big-iron systems in the garage, how do
> you deal with temperature extremes (hot in summer, cold in winter)? Do
you
> simply not operate the computer when it's
too hot or cold? Do you think
> it's a risk to even store the system in the garage?
>
> My location is Portland, Oregon, so it doesn't really get super cold in
the
> winter. I think the coldest I've
measured in the garage is 50F. But
> summer can get pretty warm. It's scheduled to get 85F today, and we had
> 100F a week or two ago. Of course the garage doesn't get as hot as
outside
> temps, but it can get up there.
>
> I realize heat can be a big enemy of computers/electronics. Also, since
> the RL02 drives are mechanical and precision devices, they might not
take
well to
temperature shifts.
Thoughts?
I would definitely *not* do it. Many people here have restored
garage-kept PDP-11s...point being that, after a few years of that, they
require restoration.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA 
3:02 a.m.
On 14/08/12 19:20, Earl Evans wrote:
Hi folks,
I'm a little concerned about the load that my PDP-11 cabinet (rack mount,
dual RL02 drives) is putting on the floor in my daylight basement. Also,
I'm thinking that recovering the space might be nice, so I was considering
moving the PDP-11 system back to the garage.
If any of you have a PDP or other big-iron systems in the garage, how do
you deal with temperature extremes (hot in summer, cold in winter)? Do you
simply not operate the computer when it's too hot or cold? Do you think
it's a risk to even store the system in the garage?
My location is Portland, Oregon, so it doesn't really get super cold in the
winter. I think the coldest I've measured in the garage is 50F. But
summer can get pretty warm. It's scheduled to get 85F today, and we had
100F a week or two ago. Of course the garage doesn't get as hot as outside
temps, but it can get up there.
I realize heat can be a big enemy of computers/electronics. Also, since
the RL02 drives are mechanical and precision devices, they might not take
well to temperature shifts.
Thoughts?
- Earl
Earl,
My question to you is why you are fighting the urge to move it to your
living room. Call yourself a retro-computer enthusiast? ;)
Seriously, I've found that humidity is as much of a killer as extreme
temperature changes. Even though the temperature in my basement remains
fairly constant the dampness that comes from living in the Lake District
seems to kill stuff far quicker than if I store it in the garage with
the associated large temperature delta.
Regards, Mark.
--
http://www.wickensonline.co.uk
http://declegacy.org.uk
3:10 a.m.
On 15 August 2012 12:02, Mark Wickens <mark at wickensonline.co.uk> wrote:
My question to you is why you are fighting the urge to move it to your
living room. Call yourself a retro-computer enthusiast? ;)
Seriously, I've found that humidity is as much of a killer as extreme
temperature changes. Even though the temperature in my basement remains
fairly constant the dampness that comes from living in the Lake District
seems to kill stuff far quicker than if I store it in the garage with the
associated large temperature delta.
Concern for his life? I've never had a PDP 11 dropped on me while I
was asleep by an angry spouse, and I don't want to find out what it's
like...
--
Yoyodyne Propulsion Systems: "The Future Begins Tomorrow"
Visit us at: http://www.yoyodyne-propulsion.net
--------
"I'd like to hold off judgement on a thing like that, sir, until all
the facts are in. "
General "Buck" Turgidson
6:03 a.m.
On 08/15/2012 07:02 AM, Mark Wickens wrote:
On 14/08/12 19:20, Earl Evans wrote:
Where I am humidity is the issue, thing like rust, molds, condensation,
and vermin (mice and bugs)
are the risks. Mice are deadly to electronic gear.
Hint if you must do the garage, build a fake false floor (1ft platform)
that can circulate air
as that will keep the most humid colder air off the gear.
Allison
Hi folks,
I'm a little concerned about the load that my PDP-11 cabinet (rack
mount,
dual RL02 drives) is putting on the floor in my daylight basement.
Also,
I'm thinking that recovering the space might be nice, so I was
considering
moving the PDP-11 system back to the garage.
If any of you have a PDP or other big-iron systems in the garage, how do
you deal with temperature extremes (hot in summer, cold in winter)?
Do you
simply not operate the computer when it's too hot or cold? Do you think
it's a risk to even store the system in the garage?
My location is Portland, Oregon, so it doesn't really get super cold
in the
winter. I think the coldest I've measured in the garage is 50F. But
summer can get pretty warm. It's scheduled to get 85F today, and we had
100F a week or two ago. Of course the garage doesn't get as hot as
outside
temps, but it can get up there.
I realize heat can be a big enemy of computers/electronics. Also, since
the RL02 drives are mechanical and precision devices, they might not
take
well to temperature shifts.
Thoughts?
- Earl
Earl,
My question to you is why you are fighting the urge to move it to your
living room. Call yourself a retro-computer enthusiast? ;)
Seriously, I've found that humidity is as much of a killer as extreme
temperature changes. Even though the temperature in my basement
remains fairly constant the dampness that comes from living in the
Lake District seems to kill stuff far quicker than if I store it in
the garage with the associated large temperature delta.
Regards, Mark.
7:07 a.m.
Where I am humidity is the issue, thing like rust,
molds, condensation,
and vermin (mice and bugs)
are the risks. Mice are deadly to electronic gear.
In Sunny So Cal, I just have to worry about the heat. I have a room in
the house with a portable A/C dedicated to the servers and storage. I could
put things in the garage, but there are too many temperature swings (lows
below freezing in the winter, above 100 F in the summer).
I have off-site climate controlled storage for spares and other things.
--
------------------------------------ personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ --
Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckaiser at floodgap.com
-- "Use gun kata for fun! Because you worth it!" ------------------------------
2:10 p.m.
On 15/08/2012 15:03, Allison wrote:
Hint if you must do the garage, build a fake false
floor (1ft platform)
that can circulate air
as that will keep the most humid colder air off the gear.
I'm in York, UK, so temperature extremes aren't common. I keep my
collection in the garage, but then that's somewhat modified: the walls
have an internal timber frame with insulation and plasterboard on the
inside, and the floor is a reclaimed computer floor, with about 8" of
free air between it and the original concrete. None of that need cost
much money.
Two other features help. There's a circular air vent in each of two
diagonally opposite corners, and under one of them is a 12V fan,
reclaimed, IIRC, from a PC power supply. That's driven by a small solar
panel designed for trickle charging vehicle batteries, about a foot
square, on the roof, which seems to provide enough air movement. The
second feature is a small dehumidifier, which is set to provide moderate
dryness -- not too much, for antistatic reasons.
I think the humidity control seems to be more important than
temperature, and it doesn't cost much to run (but I've not found a way
to run it off a 12" 12V solar panel yet :-)
--
Pete Peter Turnbull
Network Manager
University of York
2:44 p.m.
When I worked for DEC a research group moved to the U of Illinois to
a basement office. they wisely built a 2 x 12 or so frame and covered
it with plywood. Their concern was flooding. Ihave done this in the
past and I highly recommend this if you have the head space. If your
cabinets have feet (anti tipping) make it large enough for them. Think
about treated lumber for the frame.
Paul
On Wed, Aug 15, 2012 at 4:10 PM, Pete Turnbull <pete at dunnington.plus.com> wrote:
On 15/08/2012 15:03, Allison wrote:
Hint if you must do the garage, build a fake
false floor (1ft platform)
that can circulate air
as that will keep the most humid colder air off the gear.
I'm in York, UK, so temperature extremes aren't common. I keep my
collection in the garage, but then that's somewhat modified: the walls
have an internal timber frame with insulation and plasterboard on the
inside, and the floor is a reclaimed computer floor, with about 8" of
free air between it and the original concrete. None of that need cost
much money.
Two other features help. There's a circular air vent in each of two
diagonally opposite corners, and under one of them is a 12V fan,
reclaimed, IIRC, from a PC power supply. That's driven by a small solar
panel designed for trickle charging vehicle batteries, about a foot
square, on the roof, which seems to provide enough air movement. The
second feature is a small dehumidifier, which is set to provide moderate
dryness -- not too much, for antistatic reasons.
I think the humidity control seems to be more important than
temperature, and it doesn't cost much to run (but I've not found a way
to run it off a 12" 12V solar panel yet :-)
--
Pete Peter Turnbull
Network Manager
University of York 
6:15 a.m.
On Aug 14, 2012, at 2:20 PM, Earl Evans wrote:
I realize heat can be a big enemy of
computers/electronics. Also, since
the RL02 drives are mechanical and precision devices, they might not take
well to temperature shifts.
Thoughts?
I don't have direct experience, but my first line of thought is that
beyond temperature extremes, you need to consider the effect that the
additional humidity and any critters that may occupy the garage can
have. The #1 problem I hear about from people restoring machines that
have been in garages and sheds on this list is "mouse feces", which is
not a problem I'd like to have.
If you're concerned about the load it is putting on the floor, why not
distribute it a bit? If you can move the rack to a thick piece of
plywood (I'd guess at least an inch thick in a normal 4x4 or 4x8 foot
section, but there are people more skilled with lumber here), you
should have a much better base.
- Dave
6:46 p.m.
Worse than rodent feces is rodent urine which is pretty corrosive.
Temperature fluctuations kill chips.
Humidity causes corrosion, especially when mixed with the road salt that
finds its way into my garage on my car's tires or in slush attached to
the car.
I have spares and overflow in my garage, and anything that isn't bagged
up or sealed up in some kind of box (preferably plastic) seems to get
some level of eventually. Bags and boxes around stuff generally keep
them (and much of the corrosion caused by humidity) out - but
temperature is still a big problem.
On 8/15/2012 9:15 AM, David Riley wrote:
On Aug 14, 2012, at 2:20 PM, Earl Evans wrote:
I realize heat can be a big enemy of
computers/electronics. Also, since
the RL02 drives are mechanical and precision devices, they might not take
well to temperature shifts.
Thoughts?
I don't have direct experience, but my first line of thought is
that
beyond temperature extremes, you need to consider the effect that the
additional humidity and any critters that may occupy the garage can
have. The #1 problem I hear about from people restoring machines that
have been in garages and sheds on this list is "mouse feces", which is
not a problem I'd like to have.
If you're concerned about the load it is putting on the floor, why not
distribute it a bit? If you can move the rack to a thick piece of
plywood (I'd guess at least an inch thick in a normal 4x4 or 4x8 foot
section, but there are people more skilled with lumber here), you
should have a much better base.
- Dave
16 Aug
16 Aug
12:53 a.m.
Get a cat!
It is a well known fact that rodents and felines are seldom found together.
The cat will take up residence on the warmest part of your equipment.
The cat will get bigger and the rodents fewer and fewer.
Where I grew up (about 1/2 Mile from here) there was a farm opposite.
The barn had several resident cats. I asked the Farmers wife when she fed
them as I had never seen her do so. 'Oh!' she said 'towards the end of
October when they might get a bit hungry!'
Regards
?
Rod Smallwood
?
?
-----Original Message-----
From: cctech-bounces at classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-bounces at classiccmp.org]
On Behalf Of Jay Jaeger
Sent: 16 August 2012 03:47
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: Re: PDPs in the garage
Worse than rodent feces is rodent urine which is pretty corrosive.
Temperature fluctuations kill chips.
Humidity causes corrosion, especially when mixed with the road salt that
finds its way into my garage on my car's tires or in slush attached to
the car.
I have spares and overflow in my garage, and anything that isn't bagged
up or sealed up in some kind of box (preferably plastic) seems to get
some level of eventually. Bags and boxes around stuff generally keep
them (and much of the corrosion caused by humidity) out - but
temperature is still a big problem.
On 8/15/2012 9:15 AM, David Riley wrote:
On Aug 14, 2012, at 2:20 PM, Earl Evans wrote:
I realize heat can be a big enemy of
computers/electronics. Also, since
the RL02 drives are mechanical and precision devices, they might not take
well to temperature shifts.
Thoughts?
I don't have direct experience, but my first line of thought is
that
beyond temperature extremes, you need to consider the effect that the
additional humidity and any critters that may occupy the garage can
have. The #1 problem I hear about from people restoring machines that
have been in garages and sheds on this list is "mouse feces", which is
not a problem I'd like to have.
If you're concerned about the load it is putting on the floor, why not
distribute it a bit? If you can move the rack to a thick piece of
plywood (I'd guess at least an inch thick in a normal 4x4 or 4x8 foot
section, but there are people more skilled with lumber here), you
should have a much better base.
- Dave
9:07 a.m.
I don't think I would want to make a cat live in my garage during the
winter. Rather cold in the winter here in Wisconsin, and ventilation
notwithstanding, can get pretty hot in the summer. Winter is when the
mice tend to like to nest in my stuff to stay warm.
Barns are much warmer in the winter, because of the animals (usually
cows in this neck of the woods) that live there.
Might help keep the gophers, squirrels, chipmunks, golden-manteled
ground squirrels and rabbits away from my wife's garden, though. ;^)
On 8/16/2012 3:53 AM, Rod Smallwood wrote:
Get a cat!
It is a well known fact that rodents and felines are seldom found together.
The cat will take up residence on the warmest part of your equipment.
The cat will get bigger and the rodents fewer and fewer.
Where I grew up (about 1/2 Mile from here) there was a farm opposite.
The barn had several resident cats. I asked the Farmers wife when she fed
them as I had never seen her do so. 'Oh!' she said 'towards the end of
October when they might get a bit hungry!'
Regards
Rod Smallwood
-----Original Message-----
From: cctech-bounces at classiccmp.org [mailto:cctech-bounces at classiccmp.org]
On Behalf Of Jay Jaeger
Sent: 16 August 2012 03:47
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: Re: PDPs in the garage
Worse than rodent feces is rodent urine which is pretty corrosive.
Temperature fluctuations kill chips.
Humidity causes corrosion, especially when mixed with the road salt that
finds its way into my garage on my car's tires or in slush attached to
the car.
I have spares and overflow in my garage, and anything that isn't bagged
up or sealed up in some kind of box (preferably plastic) seems to get
some level of eventually. Bags and boxes around stuff generally keep
them (and much of the corrosion caused by humidity) out - but
temperature is still a big problem.
On 8/15/2012 9:15 AM, David Riley wrote:
On Aug 14, 2012, at 2:20 PM, Earl Evans wrote:
I realize heat can be a big enemy of
computers/electronics. Also, since
the RL02 drives are mechanical and precision devices, they might not take
well to temperature shifts.
Thoughts?
I don't have direct experience, but my first line of thought is
that
beyond temperature extremes, you need to consider the effect that the
additional humidity and any critters that may occupy the garage can
have. The #1 problem I hear about from people restoring machines that
have been in garages and sheds on this list is "mouse feces", which is
not a problem I'd like to have.
If you're concerned about the load it is putting on the floor, why not
distribute it a bit? If you can move the rack to a thick piece of
plywood (I'd guess at least an inch thick in a normal 4x4 or 4x8 foot
section, but there are people more skilled with lumber here), you
should have a much better base.
- Dave
12:30 p.m.
Get a cat!
In my experience, a cat 'gets' you :-)
Quite why I would want a thing that sheds hair and generates static
electricity around my classic computes is a mystery, but I do. I _love_
cats....
It is a well known fact that rodents and felines are
seldom found together.
Indeed...
The cat will take up residence on the warmest part of
your equipment.
The cat will get bigger and the rodents fewer and fewer.
Where I grew up (about 1/2 Mile from here) there was a farm opposite.
The barn had several resident cats. I asked the Farmers wife when she fed
them as I had never seen her do so. 'Oh!' she said 'towards the end of
October when they might get a bit hungry!'
Hmmm... It seems to be an observed fact (not by me) that cats hunt for
fun and not just for food, and that well-fed, strong, cats are actually
the best hunders. I can asusre you that if you keep your cat(s) well fed
and pampered (as I do), the lifetime of any rodents is still very short :-)
-tony
12:51 p.m.
Get a cat!
In my experience, a cat 'gets' you :-)
Quite why I would want a thing that sheds hair and generates static
electricity around my classic computes is a mystery, but I do. I _love_
cats....
It is a well known fact that rodents and felines
are seldom found
together.
Indeed...
The cat will take up residence on the warmest
part of your equipment.
The cat will get bigger and the rodents fewer and fewer.
Where I grew up (about 1/2 Mile from here) there was a farm opposite.
The barn had several resident cats. I asked the Farmers wife when she
fed
them as I had never seen her do so. 'Oh!' she said 'towards the end of
October when they might get a bit hungry!'
Hmmm... It seems to be an observed fact (not by me) that cats hunt for
fun and not just for food, and that well-fed, strong, cats are actually
the best hunders. I can asusre you that if you keep your cat(s) well fed
and pampered (as I do), the lifetime of any rodents is still very short
:-)
-tony
1:02 p.m.
We have three of them, a dame of 13, a red one of 2
and a gray one of 2,
aka, weasel.... (steels snacks for the other 2 whenever she can).
My little brown Burmese is not allowed in the server room, but she is allowed
in the office. Fortunately, she has little interest in computers and the
HEPA filter deals with the cat dander -- she mostly sleeps on the ottoman.
--
------------------------------------ personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ --
Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckaiser at floodgap.com
-- Jackie Fisher, who are you? Dreadnought ------------------------------------
15 Aug
15 Aug
7:53 a.m.
If any of you have a PDP or other big-iron systems in the garage, how
do you
deal with temperature extremes (hot in summer, cold in
winter)? Do
you
simply not operate the computer when it's too hot
or cold? Do you
think it's
a risk to even store the system in the garage?
My location is Portland, Oregon, so it doesn't really get super cold
in the
winter...
I live in a rural area outside of Portland. It is a little colder up
here in the winters, and cooler in the summer.
Typically, the humidity is a little higher because there is a large
stream that flows through our property.
I would never consider storing my PDP 11/34a or PDP 8/e in the garage.
They are in a temperature and humidity-controlled shop building with
concrete floor, and have been there for seven years, with no adverse
effect.
For a time, while this place was being built, I did have them in a
garage for storage. It is a thing that I regretted. They were only in
there for about 9 months (a friend's garage in SE Portland from around
April through November, so it got the summer heat, and winter coolness
and humidity). I put them on platforms made of 2x6's to space them up
off the floor. I wrapped the racks in plastic stretch wrap, and put
three large bags of desiccant in the base of each rack, with the bags in
plastic pans. I locked the RL02's and RK05's. I put mouse/rat poison
in the platform, as well as some regular "baited" spring traps to try to
avoid critter issues. I did everything I could think of to keep them
as safe as possible. It was a waste of time..
When I retrieved the systems, mice had gotten in, left waste, along with
chunks of the mouse poison all over the place, and a lot of 'fuzz'
(looked like stuffing from sleeping bags or lawn chairs) that they used
to make nests.
There were dead mice (from the poison) in numerous places, and their
corpses made a mess. They also chewed on some power cords and other
wires, exposing conductors. Despite the dessicant, there was surface
rust on un-painted surfaces. The lubricant in the paper tape punch
turned into a sticky goo. Fortunately, the mice didn't get into the
disk drives, nor did they hang out in the CPU chassis. Fortunately,
they tended to stick around the bottom of the racks, by the power
distribution units and the paper tape unit in the PDP 8/e rack.
The result is that it took me almost a year in spare time to "un-do" the
damage that had been done in nine months.
No damage was permanent, but it was a pain in the butt that I'd not care
to repeat.
My recommendation -- build a platform in your daylight basement to put
the machine on that will distribute the load over a larger area if you
are concerned about the floor structure. Spreading the load over a
larger area reduces the weight per square foot, which provides for
better structural loading. Either that, or figure out how to
rodent-proof the garage, and provide environmental controls to keep the
heat and cold (and humidity) swings to a reasonable range.
Rick Bensene
The Old Calculator Museum
http://oldcalculatormuseum.com
11:11 a.m.
* On Tue, Aug 14, 2012 at 11:20:58AM -0700, Earl Evans <earl at retrobits.com>
wrote:
Hi folks,
I'm a little concerned about the load that my PDP-11 cabinet (rack mount,
dual RL02 drives) is putting on the floor in my daylight basement. Also,
I'm thinking that recovering the space might be nice, so I was considering
moving the PDP-11 system back to the garage.
I guess I'll agree with the general consensus: If you don't have to,
don't. If you do have to, make the best of it that you can.
Also, I see a huge difference between just STORING something in a
garage, and actually WORKING on it or running it. If you're storing
something in a garage and you don't look at it for months and months, it
has more of a chance of getting infested or damaged. If you're actively
working on it or using it, you get a chance to inspect it frequently and
you're much less likely to be surprised by mice or rust or other
nasties.
In my case I really have no other choice. At least while I'm actively
working on something, it _has_ to live in the garage. I live in a small
townhouse, and the garage is the only place in the unit that can be
accessed by a vehicle. Sorry, I'm not carting a PDP-anything up the
stairs! I did too much of that in my 20s, not gonna do it in my 40s :)
Plus, my tiny workshop is adjacent to the garage, at the foot of the
stairs that lead up to the living area.
My garage is actually half underground, so temperature is never an
issue. It's about 60 to 70 degrees year round. Humidity is the only
concern, especially because the laundry is nearby, so I run a
dehumidifier and monitor with a hygrometer.
When they're not actively being worked on, they go into a storage unit.
The storage unit is (alas) not temperature controlled, but it has
excellent air flow, low humidity, and no evidence of mice.
-Seth
16 Aug
16 Aug
10:12 a.m.
Am 15.08.2012 21:11, schrieb Seth Morabito:
Sorry, I'm not carting a PDP-anything up the
stairs! I did too much of that in my 20s, not gonna do it in my 40s:)
Nicely
spoken! I agree. But I still have some very big iron sitting in the first
floor - put it there in my 20s.... :-)
--
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