28 Jun
2001
28 Jun
'01
8:17 a.m.
I went on a shopping spree at the fleamarket today (well... =).
First I picked up a SyQuest 88, mainly for the nice PowerUser case. Then I
found an Atari mouse, and as horrible as they are (the only mice which are
worse are the old IBM models), it would be nice to have at least one
functioning original mouse. Then I went to Bruno, who had a whole lot of junk,
as always. Amongst others, he had ISA accelerators - one Microsoft Mach-20
(No, M$ are not a hardware company, of course...) 286 accelerator and another
386 one. I bought a Kingston MCA 386 memory expansion and some odd Novell
card, which leads us on to the questions:
The card I bought is made by Novell, and has got the serial number 89935 and
the application number 5657. Those numbers are noted with a marker pen. The
words "BOARD 738-61-001 REV B" are screened onto the board. The board itself
is a small eight-bit ISA card without any connectors (save for the ISA card-
edge, of course). The construction is quite simple, consisting of four 74LS
chips (one 7407N and three 74LS244N), a PAL, an AMD AM25LS2521PCB (another
74LS chip?) and a big gob of glue which conceals another chip. That's it,
apart from some discrete components. Bruno told me that it's some kind of
diagnostics card, but not exactly what kind of diagnostics card.
Then he had a KA410-A board, which my research tells me is either a ?VAX 2000
or a VAXstation 2000. It's just a card and nothing else, though. I don't
suppose it's really feasible to construct a working system out of it? My
friend bought it for the SCSI chip, which he intends to use in order to repair
a Supra Amiga SCSI controller.
He also had a lot of Ungermann-Bass boards. They had some kind of VME-look-a-
like DIN connector in the middle of one edge as well as some resembling D-sub
connectors, all intended to plug into a back plane of some kind. They used a
plethora of processors, both Motorola m68k, i80186 and i960.
I finally bought a Datapulse 106A pulse generator, mainly due to its low price
and the nice case (nineteen inch carry case with leather handles =).
BTW, what's a Xerox FLEX? It's a small box with two centronics ports, a
miniscule "parallel port" (so the label says) and a BNC connector.
I also found a Zenith Z-station 235Sn, which looked like some kind of pizza
box workstation, but I couldn't pry it open. What is it?
--
En ligne avec Thor 2.6a.
G? med i SUGA, Swedish Usergroup of Amiga!
WWW: http://swedish.usergroup.amiga.tm/
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28 Jun
28 Jun
5:56 p.m.
--- Iggy Drougge <optimus(a)canit.se> wrote:
I went on a shopping spree at the fleamarket today
(well... =).
The card I bought is made by Novell, and has got the serial number 89935 and
the application number 5657. Those numbers are noted with a marker pen. The
words "BOARD 738-61-001 REV B" are screened onto the board. The board itself
is a small eight-bit ISA card without any connectors (save for the ISA card-
edge, of course). The construction is quite simple, consisting of four 74LS
chips (one 7407N and three 74LS244N), a PAL, an AMD AM25LS2521PCB (another
74LS chip?) and a big gob of glue which conceals another chip. That's it,
apart from some discrete components. Bruno told me that it's some kind of
diagnostics card, but not exactly what kind of diagnostics card.
I think it's a hardware key for some kind of Novell software.
Then he had a KA410-A board, which my research tells
me is either a µVAX 2000
or a VAXstation 2000.
The difference is a jumper - enable the onboard frame buffer and look for
a keyboard/mouse or ignore the frame buffer and expect there to be a level
converter on the keyboard/mouse port and provide 4 TTYs.
It's just a card and nothing else, though. I
don't
suppose it's really feasible to construct a working system out of it? My
friend bought it for the SCSI chip, which he intends to use in order to
repair a Supra Amiga SCSI controller.
I'll trade you a 5380 chip for the uVAX board! No desoldering required!
-ethan
He also had a lot of Ungermann-Bass boards. They had some kind of VME-look-a-
like DIN connector in the middle of one edge as well as some resembling D-sub
connectors, all intended to plug into a back plane of some kind. They used a
plethora of processors, both Motorola m68k, i80186 and i960.
I finally bought a Datapulse 106A pulse generator, mainly due to its low
price
and the nice case (nineteen inch carry case with leather handles =).
BTW, what's a Xerox FLEX? It's a small box with two centronics ports, a
miniscule "parallel port" (so the label says) and a BNC connector.
I also found a Zenith Z-station 235Sn, which looked like some kind of pizza
box workstation, but I couldn't pry it open. What is it?
--
En ligne avec Thor 2.6a.
Gå med i SUGA, Swedish Usergroup of Amiga!
WWW: http://swedish.usergroup.amiga.tm/
BBS: 08-6582572, telnet://sua.ath.cx:42512
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29 Jun
29 Jun
1:20 a.m.
Ethan Dicks skrev:
--- Iggy Drougge <optimus(a)canit.se> wrote:
> I went on a shopping spree at the fleamarket today (well... =).
> The card I bought is made by Novell, and has got the serial number 89935
> and the application number 5657. Those numbers are noted with a marker pen.
> The words "BOARD 738-61-001 REV B" are screened onto the board. The board
> itself is a small eight-bit ISA card without any connectors (save for the
> ISA card- edge, of course). The construction is quite simple, consisting of
> four 74LS chips (one 7407N and three 74LS244N), a PAL, an AMD AM25LS2521PCB
> (another
> 74LS chip?) and a big gob of glue which conceals another chip. That's it,
> apart from some discrete components. Bruno told me that it's some kind of
> diagnostics card, but not exactly what kind of diagnostics card.
I think it's a hardware key for some kind of Novell
software.
Oh my, how useful.
OTOH, it just might be, since I got an ancient copy of Netware this week.
There must be some higher power which is trying to coerce me into running
Netware.
> Then he had a KA410-A board, which my research
tells me is either a ?VAX
> 2000 or a VAXstation 2000.
The difference is a jumper - enable the onboard frame
buffer and look for
a keyboard/mouse or ignore the frame buffer and expect there to be a level
converter on the keyboard/mouse port and provide 4 TTYs.
I don't suppose one could use the monitor/keyboard/mouse cable of a VAXstation
II GPX?
Are there any pinouts for the PSU out there? Is there ay suitable replacement?
Also, is there any chance that the Ethernet is disabled? I read somethiung to
that effect but don't know how to tell. At least it's got a small chip which
claims to contain the MAC address.
> It's just a card and nothing else, though. I
don't
> suppose it's really feasible to construct a working system out of it? My
> friend bought it for the SCSI chip, which he intends to use in order to
> repair a Supra Amiga SCSI controller.
I'll trade you a 5380 chip for the uVAX board! No
desoldering required!
If only we weren't on separate continents. =) Since it's really my friends,
he'll take some coercing.
--
En ligne avec Thor 2.6a.
Amiga IFF (8SVX): This is the dominant [sound] format on the Commodore Amiga
platform. It can specify an arbitray sampling rate but ony supports mono 8-bit
sounds. It also supports a 2-to-1 lossy compression format which uses a unique
Fibonacci-delta compression algorithm.
6:53 a.m.
--- Iggy Drougge <optimus(a)canit.se> wrote:
True. I'm just worried that the KA410 board won't survive the desoldering
experience (and the 5380 might not, either!). Some DEC boards do not like
to give up their parts.
-ethan
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Ethan Dicks skrev:
I think it depends. The mouse and keyboard part are compatible, but I think
DEC had a couple of standards for how to get those signals from the external
peripheral connector into the CPU. You might need a VAXstation II GPX
cable to which you can attach an LK201-ish keyboard (not PS/2) and a DEC
puck mouse (+12V, not +5V supply).
> Then he had a KA410-A board, which my
research tells me is either a µVAX
> 2000 or a VAXstation 2000.
The difference is a jumper - enable the onboard
frame buffer and look for
a keyboard/mouse or ignore the frame buffer and expect there to be a level
converter on the keyboard/mouse port and provide 4 TTYs.
I don't suppose one could use the monitor/keyboard/mouse cable of a
VAXstation II GPX? Also, is there any chance that the Ethernet is
disabled? I read somethiung to
that effect but don't know how to tell. At least it's got a small chip which
claims to contain the MAC address.
Ethernet requires a daughter card with the LANCE chip on it. The connector
is built in to the main board, but not the actual ethernet interface. Most
of the VS2000s I've seen had Ethernet, most of the uVAX2000s did not. No
real rule, except how much stuff cost and what the typical DEC customer was
going to use something for.
I'll trade
you a 5380 chip for the uVAX board! No desoldering required!
If only we weren't on separate continents. =) Since it's really my friends,
he'll take some coercing.
9:12 a.m.
Ethan Dicks skrev:
--- Iggy Drougge <optimus(a)canit.se> wrote:
> Ethan Dicks skrev:
> >> Then he had a KA410-A board, which my research tells me is either a ?VAX
> >> 2000 or a VAXstation 2000.
>
> >The difference is a jumper - enable the onboard frame buffer and look for
> >a keyboard/mouse or ignore the frame buffer and expect there to be a level
> >converter on the keyboard/mouse port and provide 4 TTYs.
>
> I don't suppose one could use the monitor/keyboard/mouse cable of a
> VAXstation II GPX?
I think it depends. The mouse and keyboard part are
compatible, but I think
DEC had a couple of standards for how to get those signals from the external
peripheral connector into the CPU. You might need a VAXstation II GPX
cable to which you can attach an LK201-ish keyboard (not PS/2) and a DEC
puck mouse (+12V, not +5V supply).
That's exactly the cable I intend. It's the D15->3?BNC cable with a wart in
the middle for connecting the LK201 and hockey puck.
> Also, is there any chance that the Ethernet is
disabled? I read somethiung
> to that effect but don't know how to tell. At least it's got a small chip
> which claims to contain the MAC address.
Ethernet requires a daughter card with the LANCE chip
on it. The connector
is built in to the main board, but not the actual ethernet interface. Most
of the VS2000s I've seen had Ethernet, most of the uVAX2000s did not. No
real rule, except how much stuff cost and what the typical DEC customer was
going to use something for.
This card is totally bare, lacking any daughter boards. What a shame.
> >I'll trade you a 5380 chip for the uVAX
board! No desoldering required!
>
> If only we weren't on separate continents. =) Since it's really my friends,
> he'll take some coercing.
True. I'm just worried that the KA410 board
won't survive the desoldering
experience (and the 5380 might not, either!). Some DEC boards do not like
to give up their parts.
My friend is experienced. I only wonder if the card will run without that
quasi-SCSI chip.
--
En ligne avec Thor 2.6a.
The most useful program will be continually improved until it is useless.
9:12 a.m.
My friend is experienced. I only wonder if the card
will run without that
quasi-SCSI chip.
If all he wants is the 5380 -- I recommend using something like
a MediaVision ProAudio Spectrum Sound Card as the chip donor.
I've got 3 and a Trantor T180 (which I think uses the same chip)
available to help save a MicroVax.
Bill
---
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villain in a James Bond movie -- Dennis Miller
bpechter@shell.monmouth.com|pechter@pechter.dyndns.org
30 Jun
30 Jun
3:01 a.m.
--- Bill Pechter <pechter(a)bg-tc-ppp1506.monmouth.com> wrote:
> My friend is experienced. I only wonder if the
card will run without that
> quasi-SCSI chip.
Probably, but no TK50, then, and no possibility to patch the ROMs and
use the SCSI interface as a real SCSI interface (I've been trying to
get back to that project, but stalled when I realized that I don't have
a map of which byte corresponds to which socket).
If all he wants is the 5380 -- I recommend using
something like
a MediaVision ProAudio Spectrum Sound Card as the chip donor.
I've got 3 and a Trantor T180 (which I think uses the same chip)
available to help save a MicroVax.
I have a T128 that gave up a 5380 for a Supra controller (but I did a
nice, clean job and installed a socket for later - it's my only *bootable*
8-bit SCSI card).
-ethan
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3:44 p.m.
Ethan Dicks skrev:
--- Bill Pechter
<pechter(a)bg-tc-ppp1506.monmouth.com> wrote:
> > My friend is experienced. I only wonder if the card will run without that
> > quasi-SCSI chip.
Probably, but no TK50, then, and no possibility to
patch the ROMs and
use the SCSI interface as a real SCSI interface (I've been trying to
get back to that project, but stalled when I realized that I don't have
a map of which byte corresponds to which socket).
That would of course be nice, but is there such a patch?
> If all he wants is the 5380 -- I recommend using
something like
> a MediaVision ProAudio Spectrum Sound Card as the chip donor.
>
> I've got 3 and a Trantor T180 (which I think uses the same chip)
> available to help save a MicroVax.
I have a T128 that gave up a 5380 for a Supra
controller (but I did a
nice, clean job and installed a socket for later - it's my only *bootable*
8-bit SCSI card).
I'll see if I can sacrifice a Mac on the VAX/Supra altar, but I'm having a
hard time justifying the sacrifice of a working machine for a bare-bones
(piranha-eaten is a better description =) 0,9 VUP VAX.
--
En ligne avec Thor 2.6a.
Alle Verallgemeinerungen sind gef?hrlich, sogar diese.
--- Alexandre Dumas der ?ltere
5:37 p.m.
--- Iggy Drougge <optimus(a)canit.se> wrote:
Ethan Dicks skrev:
Yes. I have it, but have yet to get the ROMs in the right sockets.
--- Bill Pechter
<pechter(a)bg-tc-ppp1506.monmouth.com> wrote:
> > My friend is experienced. I only wonder if the card will run without
that
> > quasi-SCSI chip.
Probably, but no TK50, then, and no possibility to
patch the ROMs and
use the SCSI interface as a real SCSI interface (I've been trying to
get back to that project, but stalled when I realized that I don't have
a map of which byte corresponds to which socket).
That would of course be nice, but is there such a patch? I'll see if I can sacrifice a Mac on the VAX/Supra
altar, but I'm having a
hard time justifying the sacrifice of a working machine for a bare-bones
(piranha-eaten is a better description =) 0,9 VUP VAX.
It's not piranha-eaten... you just only have one part out of several
that makes up a uVAX-2000. The MFM cable isn't impossible to construct -
the hard part to find is the 60-pin IDC connector. The other end (hard
disk and floppy) are standard PC components.
At one point, I contemplated building a uVAX-2000 into a stripped
PC chassis. I wanted enough room for two MFM disks, a floppy
and the CPU. I got as far as mounting the uKA410 board into a
clone of the original AT case. Never got it hooked up in its new home.
After that, I aquired a BA123 and went back to playing with Qbus.
Oh, and in reference to your earlier question about "easy", I have never
seen a uVAX/VS-2000 without added RAM. Some have even been upgraded
after the fact, leaving a surplus of 2Mb RAM cards. I do not know
how common the KA410 was in Europe.
-ethan
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1 Jul
1 Jul
1:10 a.m.
Ethan Dicks skrev:
--- Iggy Drougge <optimus(a)canit.se> wrote:
> Ethan Dicks skrev:
>
> >--- Bill Pechter <pechter(a)bg-tc-ppp1506.monmouth.com> wrote:
> >> > My friend is experienced. I only wonder if the card will run without
> that
> >> > quasi-SCSI chip.
>
> >Probably, but no TK50, then, and no possibility to patch the ROMs and
> >use the SCSI interface as a real SCSI interface (I've been trying to
> >get back to that project, but stalled when I realized that I don't have
> >a map of which byte corresponds to which socket).
>
> That would of course be nice, but is there such a patch?
Yes. I have it, but have yet to get the ROMs in the
right sockets.
I went through what seemed like ten thousand MVAX2k pages and not a single
mention of any such thing ever being implemented. This list is truly useful.
> I'll see if I can sacrifice a Mac on the
VAX/Supra altar, but I'm having a
> hard time justifying the sacrifice of a working machine for a bare-bones
> (piranha-eaten is a better description =) 0,9 VUP VAX.
It's not piranha-eaten... you just only have one
part out of several
that makes up a uVAX-2000. The MFM cable isn't impossible to construct -
the hard part to find is the 60-pin IDC connector. The other end (hard
disk and floppy) are standard PC components.
Yep, but then comes PSU, and a proper case. I could scrounge together a hard
drive, keyboard and a mouse, could steal a monitor and its cable (assuming
compatibility). Is there always a dormant graphics adaptor on the board,
regardless of whether it's an MVAX or a VS2000, or would that have to be
added, like ethernet?
Oh, and in reference to your earlier question about
"easy", I have never
seen a uVAX/VS-2000 without added RAM. Some have even been upgraded
after the fact, leaving a surplus of 2Mb RAM cards. I do not know
how common the KA410 was in Europe.
Well, this was just a motherboard from a skip, so while upgrade cards might
have been popular, so must the case, PSU, drives and cables have been. And all
that is probably in a garbage dump somewhere now. =/
--
En ligne avec Thor 2.6a.
SCSI is *NOT* magic. There are *fundamental technical
reasons* why it is necessary to sacrifice a young goat
to your SCSI chain now and then. -- John Woods
3:01 a.m.
New subject: MicroVAX/VAXstation 2000 (was Re: Back from the fleamarket)
--- Iggy Drougge <optimus(a)canit.se> wrote:
Ethan Dicks skrev:
I think I learned about it through this list, but I could be mistaken.
> >Probably, but no TK50, then, and no
possibility to patch the ROMs and
> >use the SCSI interface as a real SCSI interface
>
> That would of course be nice, but is there such a patch?
Yes. I have it, but have yet to get the ROMs in
the right sockets.
I went through what seemed like ten thousand MVAX2k pages and not a single
mention of any such thing ever being implemented. This list is truly useful. >It's not piranha-eaten... you just only have
one part out of several...
Yep, but then comes PSU, and a proper case. I could
scrounge together a hard
drive, keyboard and a mouse, could steal a monitor and its cable (assuming
compatibility).
If you want to use it as VAXstation, yes, you need all of those. If you
want to use it as a MicroVAX, you wouldn't need the mouse/keyboard/cable.
Is there always a dormant graphics adaptor on the
board,
regardless of whether it's an MVAX or a VS2000, or would that have to be
added, like ethernet?
There is a default frame buffer. I have never used it so I don't know
its resolution, scan-rate, etc. It is active when the jumper says to be
a VAXstation, and not active when the jumper says to be a MicroVAX.
-ethan
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1:39 p.m.
New subject: MicroVAX/VAXstation 2000 (was Re: Back from the fleamarket)
Ethan Dicks skrev:
--- Iggy Drougge <optimus(a)canit.se> wrote:
> Ethan Dicks skrev:
> >> >Probably, but no TK50, then, and no possibility to patch the ROMs and
> >> >use the SCSI interface as a real SCSI interface
> >>
> >> That would of course be nice, but is there such a patch?
>
> >Yes. I have it, but have yet to get the ROMs in the right sockets.
>
> I went through what seemed like ten thousand MVAX2k pages and not a single
> mention of any such thing ever being implemented. This list is truly
> useful.
I think I learned about it through this list, but I
could be mistaken.
List, what do you say?
> >It's not piranha-eaten... you just only
have one part out of several...
> Yep, but then comes PSU, and a proper case. I
could scrounge together a
> hard drive, keyboard and a mouse, could steal a monitor and its cable
> (assuming compatibility).
If you want to use it as VAXstation, yes, you need all
of those. If you
want to use it as a MicroVAX, you wouldn't need the mouse/keyboard/cable.
But wouldn't I then need a clip-on piece on the D-subs for those annoying DEC
modular plugs?
And there's still the power question.
> Is there always a dormant graphics adaptor on the
board,
> regardless of whether it's an MVAX or a VS2000, or would that have to be
> added, like ethernet?
There is a default frame buffer. I have never used it
so I don't know
its resolution, scan-rate, etc. It is active when the jumper says to be
a VAXstation, and not active when the jumper says to be a MicroVAX.
It's a 1024?864, I think.
--
En ligne avec Thor 2.6a.
I'll maybe do a giraffe/milk/fridge game for this
year's CSSCGC.
That'd be good. Yes.
Advanced Giraffe Refrigeration Simulator.
All the thrills and 'spills' are here as you manoeuvre the milk and lure
the lactophobic animal around a kitchen packed with hazards!
** Actual Spectrum screenshots! **
"It's TOTALLY AMAZING!!!" - David Darling
Equin0x, comp.sys.sinclar
2 Jul
2 Jul
4:33 a.m.
New subject: MicroVAX/VAXstation 2000 (was Re: Back from the fleamarket)
--- Iggy Drougge <optimus(a)canit.se> wrote:
Ethan Dicks skrev:
Through this list, classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org. That's how I _thought_ I
first heard of the SCSI patches to the KA410 ROMs. Perhaps I was mistaken.
--- Iggy Drougge <optimus(a)canit.se> wrote:
> Ethan Dicks skrev:
> I went through what seemed like ten thousand MVAX2k pages and not a single
> mention of any such thing ever being implemented. This list is truly
> useful.
I think I learned about it through this list, but
I could be mistaken.
List, what do you say? But wouldn't I then need a clip-on piece on the
D-subs for those annoying DEC
modular plugs?
If you wanted more TTYs than the console, perhaps. Worst case, I suppose,
you could build a level-converter board with a MAX-232 chip or 1488/1489
or whatever (DEC also used 9636/9637 pairs IIRC) to go from the D-subs
at the edge of the board to something more standard (the 15-pin connector
does have two 3-wire serial connections - that clip-on piece converts them
to RS-432 over DEC-MMJ)
And there's still the power question.
True. AFAIK, DEC used one type of PSU for all those cases, so the supply
for an external RD54 or TK50ZFA could do the trick.
It's a bunch of work, I'll admit, but it depends on how badly you want
a VAX and whether or not you have alternatives. I certainly wouldn't
do it if I had another VAX that worked.
-ethan
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6:45 a.m.
New subject: MicroVAX/VAXstation 2000 (was Re: Back from the fleamarket)
On 2 Jul, Ethan Dicks wrote:
Through this list, classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org.
That's how I _thought_ I
first heard of the SCSI patches to the KA410 ROMs. Perhaps I was mistaken.
The
VS2k SCSI boot ROM patches are available at:
ftp://ftp.gwdg.de/pub/vms/pk2k/
I applied this patch to my VS2k boot ROM and it worked. (= I was able
to load the NetBSD first stage boot loader and a friend was able to boot
VMS.)
--
tsch??,
Jochen
Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/
8:26 a.m.
New subject: MicroVAX/VAXstation 2000 (was Re: Back from the fleamarket)
--- jkunz(a)unixag-kl.fh-kl.de wrote:
The VS2k SCSI boot ROM patches are available at:
ftp://ftp.gwdg.de/pub/vms/pk2k/
Thank you... I was going to post this, but I didn't have my old bookmark
file handy.
I applied this patch to my VS2k boot ROM and it
worked. (= I was able
to load the NetBSD first stage boot loader and a friend was able to boot
VMS.)
Since I had an older version of the ROMs, I could not patch my existing
ones, so I had to aquire a binary file of the entire contents pre-patched.
So I have this file, and I have split it into 4 parts and burned it onto
4 ROMs. Does anyone have any idea which socket on the KA410 corresponds
to which bytes of a quad-word?
Thanks,
-ethan
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1:06 p.m.
New subject: MicroVAX/VAXstation 2000 (was Re: Back from the fleamarket)
Ethan Dicks skrev:
--- Iggy Drougge <optimus(a)canit.se> wrote:
> Ethan Dicks skrev:
>
> >--- Iggy Drougge <optimus(a)canit.se> wrote:
> >> Ethan Dicks skrev:
> >> I went through what seemed like ten thousand MVAX2k pages and not a
> >> single mention of any such thing ever being implemented. This list is
> >> truly useful.
>
> >I think I learned about it through this list, but I could be mistaken.
>
> List, what do you say?
Through this list, classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org.
That's how I _thought_ I
first heard of the SCSI patches to the KA410 ROMs. Perhaps I was mistaken.
I'm trying to get a confirmation from other list members. =)
> But wouldn't I then need a clip-on piece on
the D-subs for those annoying
> DEC modular plugs?
If you wanted more TTYs than the console, perhaps.
Worst case, I suppose,
you could build a level-converter board with a MAX-232 chip or 1488/1489
or whatever (DEC also used 9636/9637 pairs IIRC) to go from the D-subs
at the edge of the board to something more standard (the 15-pin connector
does have two 3-wire serial connections - that clip-on piece converts them
to RS-432 over DEC-MMJ)
RS-432 really won't do me any good. So, is there always an RS-323 console on
the DB25?
> And there's still the power question.
True. AFAIK, DEC used one type of PSU for all those
cases, so the supply
for an external RD54 or TK50ZFA could do the trick.
"Those"?
It's a bunch of work, I'll admit, but it depends on how badly you want
a VAX and whether or not you have alternatives. I certainly wouldn't
do it if I had another VAX that worked.
Well, we have several. One MVAX II/GPX, one MVAX 3100 and one MVAX II whose
state is unknown for lack of time and interest (we're having enough trouble
with the DEQNA in our GPX).
And running such a machine without ethernet is no fun, I'm so spoiled
nowadays. =)
--
En ligne avec Thor 2.6a.
MUSIK G?R MAN AV PLAST OCH KISEL!
TR?D ANV?NDER MAN TILL M?BLER!
6:08 p.m.
New subject: MicroVAX/VAXstation 2000 (was Re: Back from the fleamarket)
--- Iggy Drougge <optimus(a)canit.se> wrote:
Sorry... the cases that are of the style of the uVAX-2000 - I'm blanking
on the proper DEC designation, or I would have mentioned it.
I have a DEQNA... haven't gotten my BA123 put back together since I got it.
Ethan Dicks skrev:
Doh! (to quote the new OED) That should read "RS-423" In any case, it
isn't incompatible with RS-232.
...that clip-on piece converts them to RS-432 over
DEC-MMJ)
RS-432 really won't do me any good. So, is there always an RS-323 console on the DB25?
I'm pretty sure the console is on the DB-9 (uVAX-II pinout, *not* PC-AT). It
is RS-232. The DB-25 is a standard serial connection, but it is not the
console (i.e., not OPA0: within VMS, but I forget if it's TTA0: or TTA1:
or even TXAn:... it's been too long).
True. AFAIK,
DEC used one type of PSU for all those cases, so the supply
for an external RD54 or TK50ZFA could do the trick.
"Those"? It's a
bunch of work... I certainly wouldn't do it if I had another VAX
that worked.
Well, we have several. One MVAX II/GPX, one MVAX 3100 and one MVAX II whose
state is unknown for lack of time and interest (we're having enough trouble
with the DEQNA in our GPX). And running such a machine without ethernet is no fun,
I'm so spoiled
nowadays. =)
True. What _I'm_ after is a VAX with ethernet, 9-track and a big disk. So
far, I have the 8300 (no tape, no ethernet, but an RA-81 and a 3rd-party
SDI-ESDI box w/2.4 Gb), the uVAX-II (DEQNA, and KDA-50, both uninstalled,
but with a Dilog TU-80-compatible controller), and MicroVAX 2000s (with
RD_series disks and ethernet). Kinda like the time-money-quality equation,
I can manage two of my three goals in the same machine.
Somewhat recently, I did fall into a DEBNT. Gotta find out where to hang
the cab kit (i.e., off of which backplane connector for that slot).
Doesn't get me tape, but it does get me a multi-processor VAX with several
gig of disk.
-ethan
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3 Jul
3 Jul
4:18 a.m.
New subject: MicroVAX/VAXstation 2000 (was Re: Back from the fleamarket)
Ethan Dicks skrev:
--- Iggy Drougge <optimus(a)canit.se> wrote:
> Ethan Dicks skrev:
> >...that clip-on piece converts them to RS-432 over DEC-MMJ)
>
> RS-432 really won't do me any good.
Doh! (to quote the new OED) That should read
"RS-423" In any case, it
isn't incompatible with RS-232.
Nope. I believe that's a differential interface, isn't it?
> So, is there always an RS-323 console on the DB25?
I'm pretty sure the console is on the DB-9 (uVAX-II
pinout, *not* PC-AT). It
is RS-232. The DB-25 is a standard serial connection, but it is not the
console (i.e., not OPA0: within VMS, but I forget if it's TTA0: or TTA1: or
even TXAn:... it's been too long).
OTOH ISTR reading that it's possible to construct an adaptor plug which links
two pins on the DB25 so as to enable it as the console.
> >True. AFAIK, DEC used one type of PSU for all
those cases, so the supply
> >for an external RD54 or TK50ZFA could do the trick.
>
> "Those"?
Sorry... the cases that are of the style of the
uVAX-2000 - I'm blanking
on the proper DEC designation, or I would have mentioned it.
All right, those. They're pretty, but haven't showed up on the fleamarket. =)
> >It's a bunch of work... I certainly
wouldn't do it if I had another VAX
> that worked.
>
> Well, we have several. One MVAX II/GPX, one MVAX 3100 and one MVAX II whose
> state is unknown for lack of time and interest (we're having enough trouble
> with the DEQNA in our GPX).
I have a DEQNA... haven't gotten my BA123 put back
together since I got it.
I wonder if our DEQNA troubles are due to that. There are no walls on our VAX,
which I suppose could overheat the card(s).
> And running such a machine without ethernet is no
fun, I'm so spoiled
> nowadays. =)
True. What _I'm_ after is a VAX with ethernet,
9-track and a big disk. So
far, I have the 8300 (no tape, no ethernet, but an RA-81 and a 3rd-party
SDI-ESDI box w/2.4 Gb), the uVAX-II (DEQNA, and KDA-50, both uninstalled,
but with a Dilog TU-80-compatible controller), and MicroVAX 2000s (with
RD_series disks and ethernet). Kinda like the time-money-quality equation,
I can manage two of my three goals in the same machine.
We've got the equation graphics, speed, networking. There's graphics on the
GPX and speed and networking on the 3100, but then we've got to use terminals.
Somewhat recently, I did fall into a DEBNT. Gotta find
out where to hang
the cab kit (i.e., off of which backplane connector for that slot).
Doesn't get me tape, but it does get me a multi-processor VAX with several
gig of disk.
DEBNT?
--
En ligne avec Thor 2.6a.
11:40 a.m.
New subject: MicroVAX/VAXstation 2000 (was Re: Back from the fleamarket)
Somewhat
recently, I did fall into a DEBNT. Gotta find out where to hang
the cab kit (i.e., off of which backplane connector for that slot).
Doesn't get me tape, but it does get me a multi-processor VAX with several
gig of disk.
DEBNT? 
12:56 p.m.
New subject: MicroVAX/VAXstation 2000 (was Re: Back from the fleamarket)
----- Original Message -----
I'm going from foggy memory here - but isn't the only difference between
RS232 and RS423 the voltage levels? I think RS232 is something like 0-12
volts and RS423 is 0-5 volts or something like that. As a result, it becomes
a question of tolerances in the circuit. If I recall, on the General
Automation Zebra Pick machines, they had RS423 ports, and we hooked up RS232
devices to them all the time. Almost never did we find an RS232 device that
wouldn't work on the RS423 ports. Vague memory here.
Jay West
RS-432 really
won't do me any good.
Doh! (to quote the new OED) That should read "RS-423" In any case, it
isn't incompatible with RS-232.
> So, is there always an RS-323 console on the DB25? 
1:38 a.m.
New subject: MicroVAX/VAXstation 2000 (was Re: Back from the fleamarket)
Here's a quickie from Optimized Engineering
<http://www.optimized.com/COMPENDI/RS-R423.htm>:
"
Whereas the RS-232 standard defines a bi-directional interface between exactly
two communicators, the RS-423 standard defines a uni-directional interface
between one transmitter and many receivers. For example, a single computer may
need to update a number of terminals that are displaying, for example, a
customers order information at multiple locations throughout a warehouse. The
data direction is always in one direction.
RS-423 allows for distances up to 4000 feet but limits data rates to only 100
kb/sec for a maximum of ten receivers. The voltage levels are +3.6 to +6 volts
to represent a binary 0 and -3.6 to -6 volts to represent a binary 1. The
voltage levels are defined relative to an earth ground potential assumed to be
zero volts. Consequently a difference in ground voltage levels will result in
the Common Mode Voltage problem that will confuse the data values.
"
If you start with that, you can probably get where you need to go. This refers
to some logical differences. Voltage standards overlap somewhat.
Dick
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jay West" <west(a)tseinc.com>
To: <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org>
Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2001 6:56 PM
Subject: Re: MicroVAX/VAXstation 2000 (was Re: Back from the fleamarket)
----- Original Message -----
I'm going from foggy memory here - but isn't the only difference between
RS232 and RS423 the voltage levels? I think RS232 is something like 0-12
volts and RS423 is 0-5 volts or something like that. As a result, it becomes
a question of tolerances in the circuit. If I recall, on the General
Automation Zebra Pick machines, they had RS423 ports, and we hooked up RS232
devices to them all the time. Almost never did we find an RS232 device that
wouldn't work on the RS423 ports. Vague memory here.
Jay West
RS-432
really won't do me any good.
Doh! (to quote the new OED) That should read "RS-423" In any case, it
isn't incompatible with RS-232.
> So, is there always an RS-323 console on the DB25? 
6:04 a.m.
New subject: MicroVAX/VAXstation 2000 (was Re: Back from the fleamarket)
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7:19 a.m.
New subject: MicroVAX/VAXstation 2000 (was Re: Back from the fleamarket)
I am sure RS432 is a typo for RS423. My experiece with
the common
implementations of RS423 on DEC machines (and with the so-called RS422 on
the Mac, which is nothing of the sort...) is that it's possible to wire
up a cable that will connect it to a standard RS232 port. It may not
officially meet the stnadard, but it sure works for reasonable-length
cables. So the fact that you get DEC RS423 ports is a non-problem.
On the Mac it's also easy enough to wire up adapters to go
from the Mac serial ports to RS232. I've run PC
modems off of Mac's
like that, as well as hooked my Tandy Model 102 to my Mac
to exchange
data.
Jeff
--
Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems:
Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File
http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757
30 Jun
30 Jun
3:05 a.m.
--- Iggy Drougge <optimus(a)canit.se> wrote:
You'll also want a RAM daughter card, too. There isn't much on board. 2Mb
cards should be easy to find and nearly free. Anything larger than 4Mb will
probably be a bit expensive if sold seperately (my largest is a 4Mb).
> >>
Then he had a KA410-A board... a µVAX 2000 or a VAXstation 2000.
This card is
totally bare, lacking any daughter boards. What a shame. My friend is experienced...
Hopefully he's experienced at desoldering multi-layer boards. That's
a bit more difficult than two-layer, because the power and ground planes
suck lotsa heat and are difficult to clean out with a hand-operated
solder sucker.
-ethan
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3:40 p.m.
Ethan Dicks skrev:
--- Iggy Drougge <optimus(a)canit.se> wrote:
> >> >> Then he had a KA410-A board... a ?VAX 2000 or a VAXstation 2000.
> This card is totally bare, lacking any daughter boards. What a shame.
You'll also want a RAM daughter card, too. There
isn't much on board. 2Mb
cards should be easy to find and nearly free. Anything larger than 4Mb will
probably be a bit expensive if sold seperately (my largest is a 4Mb).
Define "easy to find". =)
I'm contemplating knocking on the door to the company in whose skip Bruno
found the boards.
> My friend is experienced...
Hopefully he's experienced at desoldering
multi-layer boards. That's
a bit more difficult than two-layer, because the power and ground planes
suck lotsa heat and are difficult to clean out with a hand-operated
solder sucker.
He's got a hot air gun. We had a lot of fun with that and some PC
motherboards. At least it's cheaper than buying D-sub connectors in the shop.
=)
--
En ligne avec Thor 2.6a.
It's amazing how many useful pieces of equipment are disguised as domestic
appliances: the machine for cleaning keyboard keycaps and shell cases does an
excellent job of washing clothes, while the tumbling machine for drying them
off also works for socks and shirts. The device in the kitchen for baking
small spray-painted articles can be used for pizza and muffins. And so on...
Pete Turnbull
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