5 Aug
2003
5 Aug
'03
4:22 p.m.
And both management and users treat/pay us like lower-level primates too...
Cheers...
Ed Tillman
Store Automation Tech Support Specialist
Valero Energy Corporation
San Antonio, Texas, USA
Office: (210)592-3110, Fax (210)592-2048
Email: edward.tillman(a)valero.com <mailto:edward.tillman@valero.com>
-----Original Message-----
From: Vintage Computer Festival [mailto:vcf@siconic.com]
Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2003 7:33 PM
To: cctalk(a)classiccmp.org
Subject: Re: Primate Programming
On Tue, 5 Aug 2003, Joe wrote:
Everyone should read this!
<http://www.newtechusa.com/ppi/main.asp>
This pretty much sums up the current state of the IT job market in the US
right now ;)
--
Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer
Festival
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
International Man of Intrigue and Danger
http://www.vintage.org
* Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com
*
5 Aug
5 Aug
4:57 p.m.
New subject: Mainframe emulators
Anyone had experience with Hercules (http://www.conmicro.cx/hercules/), a
System/370, ESA/390, and z/Architecture emulator?
--John
6:37 p.m.
New subject: Mainframe emulators
Anyone had experience with Hercules
(http://www.conmicro.cx/hercules/), a
System/370, ESA/390, and z/Architecture emulator?
--John
Define experince. :^) I've had it working before, but don't know enough
about the OS to be able to do anything. Basically the only thing you can
get to run on it is an ancient version of MVS.
Zane
6:55 p.m.
New subject: Mainframe emulators
Anyone had
experience with Hercules (http://www.conmicro.cx/hercules/), a
System/370, ESA/390, and z/Architecture emulator?
--John
Define experince. :^) I've had it working before, but don't know enough
about the OS to be able to do anything. Basically the only thing you can
get to run on it is an ancient version of MVS.
7:25 p.m.
New subject: Mainframe emulators
Define
experince. :^) I've had it working before, but don't know enough
about the OS to be able to do anything. Basically the only thing you can
get to run on it is an ancient version of MVS.
If you by "the only thing you can get to run on it" means the only legally
available software, then, yes, along with an old version of VM/370. If you
mean it won't run anything but old versions of software, then, no, Hercules
will also run OS/390 and other modern software.
7:43 p.m.
New subject: Mainframe emulators
Define experince. :^) I've had it working before,
but don't know enough
about the OS to be able to do anything. Basically the only thing you can
get to run on it is an ancient version of MVS.
If you by "the only thing you can get to run on it" means the only legally
available software, then, yes, along with an old version of VM/370. If you
mean it won't run anything but old versions of software, then, no, Hercules
will also run OS/390 and other modern software. Hold on, are you saying it's possible to get an
old version of VM/370?!?!
Where?????
I remember seeing something about it on the hercules mailing list a while ago.
You could try searching the archives.
--
Eric Dittman
dittman(a)dittman.net
7 Aug
7 Aug
12:49 p.m.
New subject: Mainframe emulators
On Tue, 5 Aug 2003, Zane H. Healy wrote:
Well, since OS/390 or other such modern software is basically impossible
to obtain... But, yes, I'm aware you can run current software on it.
Not impossible, just expensive.
Peace... Sridhar
Define experince. :^) I've had it working before,
but don't know
enough about the OS to be able to do anything. Basically the only
thing you can get to run on it is an ancient version of MVS.
If you by "the only thing you can get to run on it" means the only
legally available software, then, yes, along with an old version of
VM/370. If you mean it won't run anything but old versions of
software, then, no, Hercules will also run OS/390 and other modern
software. 
8 Aug
8 Aug
5:24 a.m.
New subject: Mainframe emulators
Zane,
Try http://www.cbttape.org/vm6.htm .
On Tue, 5 Aug 2003, Zane H. Healy wrote:
Hold on, are you saying it's possible to get an old version of VM/370?!?!
Where?????
Zane
7 Aug
7 Aug
12:46 p.m.
New subject: Mainframe emulators
Unless you have licenses for a newer version of an IBM OS.
Peace... Sridhar
On Tue, 5 Aug 2003, Zane H. Healy wrote:
Anyone had
experience with Hercules (http://www.conmicro.cx/hercules/), a
System/370, ESA/390, and z/Architecture emulator?
--John
Define experince. :^) I've had it working before, but don't know enough
about the OS to be able to do anything. Basically the only thing you can
get to run on it is an ancient version of MVS.
Zane 
5 Aug
5 Aug
8:20 p.m.
New subject: Mainframe emulators
I use it (from time to time actually).
VM/370, MVS 3.8, OS/360, OS/VS and DOS/VS availables
(not with the simulator, in diverse places along the Internet)
It can load and work with Linux/390
It has some limitations accepted for everybody. By example, there is
no ISPF or another program product in the software used. People
use other substitutes.
Cheers
Sergio
----- Original Message -----
From: "J.C. Wren" <jcwren(a)jcwren.com>
To: <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org>
Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 3:53 AM
Subject: Mainframe emulators
Anyone had experience with Hercules
(http://www.conmicro.cx/hercules/), a
System/370, ESA/390, and z/Architecture emulator?
--John
7 Aug
7 Aug
12:43 p.m.
New subject: Mainframe emulators
I have.
Peace... Sridhar
On Tue, 5 Aug 2003, J.C. Wren wrote:
Anyone had experience with Hercules
(http://www.conmicro.cx/hercules/), a
System/370, ESA/390, and z/Architecture emulator?
--John
5 Aug
5 Aug
5:06 p.m.
Quothe Tillman, Edward, from writings of Tue, Aug 05, 2003 at 08:06:20PM -0500:
And both management and users treat/pay us like
lower-level primates too...
The interesting thing about this is that a large percentage of
management and users are much closer to primates, intellectually
speaking, than we are.
From: Vintage Computer Festival
[mailto:vcf@siconic.com]
This pretty much sums up the current state of the IT job market in the US
right now ;)
Do you mean that an IT job market still exists in the U.S.? That is,
aside from the H1 visa employees imported for cheap labor along with
the cheap outsourced overseas labor.
--
Copyright (C) 2003 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals:
All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature &
rdd(a)rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such
http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty.
5:35 p.m.
At 10:05 PM 8/5/03 -0400, R. D. Davis wrote:
I saw a funny article the other day. In it the Indians were whining
about all the programming jobs that THEY were losing to the Asian and
former Soviet countries.
Joe
Quothe Tillman, Edward, from writings of Tue, Aug 05,
2003 at 08:06:20PM
-0500:
And both
management and users treat/pay us like lower-level primates too...
The interesting thing about this is that a large percentage of
management and users are much closer to primates, intellectually
speaking, than we are.
From: Vintage Computer Festival
[mailto:vcf@siconic.com]
This pretty much sums up the current state of the IT job market in the US
right now ;)
Do you mean that an IT job market still exists in the U.S.? That is,
aside from the H1 visa employees imported for cheap labor along with
the cheap outsourced overseas labor.
6:54 p.m.
Dont worry in 50 years when the poorest aboriginee/pakistani/african is
economically better off then the people in the USA, jobs in IT will come
back with a vengeance here.
You can always find people willing to take a position for less money, but
will the job actually get done as needed?
----- Original Message -----
From: "Joe" <rigdonj(a)cfl.rr.com>
To: <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org>
Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2003 6:19 PM
Subject: Re: Primate Programming
I saw a funny article the other day. In it the Indians were whining
about all the programming jobs that THEY were losing to the Asian and
former Soviet countries.
Joe
At 10:05 PM 8/5/03 -0400, R. D. Davis wrote:
too...
Quothe Tillman, Edward, from writings of Tue, Aug
05, 2003 at 08:06:20PM
-0500:
>> And both management and users treat/pay us like lower-level primates
>
>The interesting thing about this is that a large percentage of
>management and users are much closer to primates, intellectually
>speaking, than we are.
>
>> From: Vintage Computer Festival [mailto:vcf@siconic.com]
>> This pretty much sums up the current state of the IT job market in the
US
right now ;)
Do you mean that an IT job market still exists in the U.S.? That is,
aside from the H1 visa employees imported for cheap labor along with
the cheap outsourced overseas labor.
9:02 p.m.
On Tue, 5 Aug 2003, TeoZ wrote:
You can always find people willing to take a position
for less money, but
will the job actually get done as needed?
Why shouldn't it? 50 Rupees an hour may only be US$1 an hour but it may
well go a lot farther to a hacker in India who taught himself C++ and
knows it better than any college computer science graduate.
Also, America has its fair share of monkey programmers too, you know.
--
Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org
* Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com *
8:54 p.m.
On Tue, 5 Aug 2003, Joe wrote:
I saw a funny article the other day. In it the
Indians were whining
about all the programming jobs that THEY were losing to the Asian and
former Soviet countries.
Last Sunday's Dilbert was frickin hilarious:
http://www.unitedmedia.com/comics/dilbert/archive/dilbert-20030803.html
--
Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org
* Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com *
7726
days inactive
7729
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15 comments
11 participants
participants (11)
-
dittman＠dittman.net -
Edward.Tillman＠valero.com -
healyzh＠aracnet.com -
jcwren＠jcwren.com -
OwnedByDogs＠grandecom.net -
rdd＠rddavis.org -
rigdonj＠cfl.rr.com -
spedraja＠ono.com -
teoz＠neo.rr.com -
vance＠neurotica.com -
vcf＠siconic.com