23 Jun
1997
23 Jun
'97
7:16 p.m.
Dear Friends,
There is no desire from my part to start another flame war (but a
discussion, yes) but in answer to the many that have expressed (here or
privately) their total disinterest for the *meaning* the *history* and
the *culture* behind our collections may I ask them to consider what
their machines would mean without somebody behind (or rather in front)
of them. Machines are just pieces of metal and plastic. They mean
something because they are related to the minds, fingers, emotions,
life, behaviours and destinies of the people behind them. YOU love so
much that piece of hadware for what it meant to you (or to somebody else
you are related with), to your life, to your history of for it meant to
the history of mankind.
So I am asking *you*, lover of the hardware to reconsider your thoughts
and ask yourself what would your collection mean without all of the
above. I, for one, will be glad to learn that you had second toughts
about this. In either cases it could be useful to read here your
motivations.
Thanks
--
================================================================
Enrico Tedeschi, 54, Easthill Drive, BRIGHTON BN41 2FD, U.K.
tel/fax +(0)1273 701650 (24 hours) or 0850 104725 mobile
website <http://www.ndirect.co.uk/~e.tedeschi>
================================================================
visit Brighton: <http://www.brighton.co.uk/tourist/welcome.htm>
23 Jun
23 Jun
8:03 p.m.
On Tue, 24 Jun 1997, e.tedeschi wrote:
Dear Friends,
There is no desire from my part to start another flame war (but a
discussion, yes) but in answer to the many that have expressed (here or
privately) their total disinterest for the *meaning* the *history* and
the *culture* behind our collections may I ask them to consider what
their machines would mean without somebody behind (or rather in front)
of them. Machines are just pieces of metal and plastic. They mean
something because they are related to the minds, fingers, emotions,
life, behaviours and destinies of the people behind them. YOU love so
much that piece of hadware for what it meant to you (or to somebody else
you are related with), to your life, to your history of for it meant to
the history of mankind.
So I am asking *you*, lover of the hardware to reconsider your thoughts
and ask yourself what would your collection mean without all of the
above. I, for one, will be glad to learn that you had second toughts
about this. In either cases it could be useful to read here your
motivations.
Do you have a point to make in all this? Seriously, I've been following
this from the beginning and I have yet to understand where this wild hair
up your ass came from. Please, for the love of humanity, stop.
Sam
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass
24 Jun
24 Jun
4:11 a.m.
Sam Ismail wrote:
Do you have a point to make in all this? Seriously, I've been following
this from the beginning and I have yet to understand where this wild hair
up your ass came from. Please, for the love of humanity, stop.
Sam
I think that there is no need to get vulgar. If that is the general
feeling I apologise and widthdraw my question. Sorry
enrico
2:25 a.m.
Dear Friends,
There is no desire from my part to start another flame war (but a
discussion, yes) but in answer to the many that have expressed (here or
privately) their total disinterest for the *meaning* the *history* and
the *culture* behind our collections may I ask them to consider what
their machines would mean without somebody behind (or rather in front)
of them. Machines are just pieces of metal and plastic. They mean
something because they are related to the minds, fingers, emotions,
life, behaviours and destinies of the people behind them. YOU love so
much that piece of hadware for what it meant to you (or to somebody else
you are related with), to your life, to your history of for it meant to
the history of mankind.
I think you've found the root of the Apple ][ debate here...
To me, some classic computers have a personality. The experience of
booting a PERQ 1 - particularly a PERQ 1 I'd just restored - is something
I'll never forget. The click as the power relay pulled in. The noise of
the fans. The squeal from the hard disk belt as the platters got up to
speed. The counting up of the DDS. And then the screen clearing, and a
logon prompt appearing. You don't get that with modern computers.
I've never really thought about the people behind it, except in a very
general way. If the machine had 'come from another planet' I'd still like
it. I'd still be interested in it for what it can do - it's a fine piece
of machinery that can do some things that you can't do on any PC.
People who are interested in the Apple ][ are interested (I suspect)
because of its place in history. It was one of the first true personal
computers. It got the micro revolution going. But that's not why _I_
collect computers.
It would be interesting to see what enthusiasts of other machinery think.
I am thinking of motor car enthusiasts in particular. Let's compare a
Model T ford with a pre-war Rolls-Royce. The former is a very important
car historically. It's the vehicle that (I believe) brought motoring to
the average person in the States. But the latter contains much finer
engineering. Which would most car collectors consider more valuable? Which
would they prefer to run?
Enrico Tedeschi, 54, Easthill Drive, BRIGHTON BN41
2FD, U.K.
--
-tony
ard12(a)eng.cam.ac.uk
The gates in my computer are AND,OR and NOT, not Bill
4:09 a.m.
A.R. Duell wrote:
I've never really thought about the people behind
it, except in a very
general way. If the machine had 'come from another planet' I'd still like
it. I'd still be interested in it for what it can do - it's a fine piece
of machinery that can do some things that you can't do on any PC.
I see that I have managed to not to explain myself in such a way to be
understood:
Your lovely machines (whichever they are) live *only* because there
someone (you or another human person) to make it work and appreciate the
results. They *only* live in your (or somebody else's) mind. And that is
why their history is important because it's not their history that we
appreciate but the sentiments, feelings, joy and sadness of the people
who used them!
Hope this is clearer
enrico
================================================================
Enrico Tedeschi, 54, Easthill Drive, BRIGHTON BN41 2FD, U.K.
tel/fax +(0)1273 701650 (24 hours) or 0850 104725 mobile
website <http://www.ndirect.co.uk/~e.tedeschi>
================================================================
visit Brighton: <http://www.brighton.co.uk/tourist/welcome.htm>
8:37 a.m.
e.tedeschi wrote:
Your lovely machines (whichever they are) live *only* because there
someone (you or another human person) to make it work and appreciate the
results. They *only* live in your (or somebody else's) mind. And that is
why their history is important because it's not their history that we
appreciate but the sentiments, feelings, joy and sadness of the people
who used them!
Oh oh, this sounds like emotions poping up :). I think you make a very
valid point and phrased it very well. When I think about putting my
machines on display, the fact that the machines are interesting is part
of it of course, but the main thrust is how people will react to and
think about the machines. When I see the early DEC equipment, it brings
to mind the time I spent at the DEC school, the time I spent working
with others teaching (and learning!) all about computers, and a host of
other things. For me, I think the word is nostalgia (or however it's
spelled.)
5:36 a.m.
On Tue, 24 Jun 1997, A.R. Duell wrote:
To me, some classic computers have a personality. The
experience of
booting a PERQ 1 - particularly a PERQ 1 I'd just restored - is something
I'll never forget. The click as the power relay pulled in. The noise of
the fans. The squeal from the hard disk belt as the platters got up to
speed. The counting up of the DDS. And then the screen clearing, and a
logon prompt appearing. You don't get that with modern computers.
I've never really thought about the people behind it, except in a very
general way. If the machine had 'come from another planet' I'd still like
it. I'd still be interested in it for what it can do - it's a fine piece
of machinery that can do some things that you can't do on any PC.
People who are interested in the Apple ][ are interested (I suspect)
because of its place in history. It was one of the first true personal
computers. It got the micro revolution going. But that's not why _I_
collect computers.
I'm interested in the Apple because I grew up on it and it was a
wonderful machine to grow up on at that. There was so much to explore.
And it was more than just the machine itself, but the culture that
spawned around it. The culture I am referring to mainly is the BBS
culture with all its lingo, the pirate groups who banded together and
cracked software, the holy wars with other computers.
But I am always fascinated by other computers. More so than with the
Apple. I know all about the apple. That's old hat. I love going to a
swap meet and finding a computer I've never even heard of before (not
likely since joining this discussion), then taking it home and turning it
on and finding out that it booted into this particular BASIC or that
particular monitor or (unfortunately) required this particular boot disk
which I must now go find. Its fun to see the differet paradigms that
computers of olden days used, rather than the ubiquitous PC BIOS that you
invaribly see when you bootup any computer these days. Even computers
I've loathed in the past I discover good things about and appreciate them
for their uniqueness.
The person behind the machine is not important to me. It really depends
on the person. Again, since I grew up on Apples I would only be
fascinated that Steve Wozniak did this hardware or that, because I know
who he is and respect him. Any other well known creator (Chuck Peddle
would be a good example) I could care less about because I barely know
who he is or what he's done. Now, mind you I know Chuck has done some
tremendous work now from having read the discussions on this newsgroup,
but he's just not my hero because I didn't grow up on Commodores. It
would be like trying to convince someone not from America how amazing
Babe Ruth was.
The history behind the machine is what I am most interested in. What
company built it, what year it came out, what technology it used (its
processor, RAM, etc), what its predecessor and successor were, etc. I
like to know each machines historical perspective.
Sam
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass
7:09 p.m.
Sam Ismail wrote:
The history behind the machine is what I am most
interested in. What
company built it, what year it came out, what technology it used (its
processor, RAM, etc), what its predecessor and successor were, etc. I
like to know each machines historical perspective.
Sam
I see that you had a change of mind. Good. Now can we start reasoning
and perhaps, who knows, even agreeing....
enrico
6:40 p.m.
On Wed, 25 Jun 1997, e.tedeschi wrote:
Sam Ismail wrote:
I didn't have a change of mind. This is how I've felt all along. I just
didn't appreciate someone attempting to ram it down my throat.
Sam
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass
The history behind the machine is what I am most
interested in. What
company built it, what year it came out, what technology it used (its
processor, RAM, etc), what its predecessor and successor were, etc. I
like to know each machines historical perspective.
Sam
I see that you had a change of mind. Good. Now can we start reasoning
and perhaps, who knows, even agreeing....
10:07 p.m.
Sam Ismail wrote:
On Wed, 25 Jun 1997, e.tedeschi wrote:
Just as a matter of curiosity, I hope you don't mind my asking your age?
If you do, I apologise.
enrico
Sam Ismail wrote:
I didn't have a change of mind. This is how I've felt all along. I just
didn't appreciate someone attempting to ram it down my throat.
Sam The history behind the machine is what I am most
interested in. What
company built it, what year it came out, what technology it used (its
processor, RAM, etc), what its predecessor and successor were, etc. I
like to know each machines historical perspective.
Sam
I see that you had a change of mind. Good. Now can we start reasoning
and perhaps, who knows, even agreeing....
10042
days inactive
10043
days old
9 comments
4 participants
participants (4)
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ard12＠eng.cam.ac.uk -
dastar＠crl.com -
e.tedeschi＠ndirect.co.uk -
marvin＠rain.org