29 Apr
2013
29 Apr
'13
2:06 p.m.
I acquired an Apple IIe at the dump the other day (and a pair of IIgs
machines, sans keyboards/mice - more on those later, probably).
Something heavy has been dropped on the keyboard - there's no damage to the
keytops (amazingly), but the keyboard PCB is cracked and the frame mounting
points bent, and in testing switches around the damaged area I've found
that the '=' key is permanently shorted (I assume it took the brunt of the
impact from whatever-it-was, unless the switches in these machines are
prone to decay and subsequent shorting).
Anyway, is it just a case of desoldering the switch and prying it out of
the metal frame, or is there more to it than that? I did try a little
careful coaxing and it didn't want to move, but I don't want to try more
force if it's the wrong approach.
cheers
Jules
29 Apr
29 Apr
2:32 p.m.
On Apr 29, 2013, at 17:06, Jules Richardson <jules.richardson99 at gmail.com>
wrote:
I acquired an Apple IIe at the dump the other day (and a pair of IIgs machines, sans
keyboards/mice - more on those later, probably).
Not sure about the IIe keyboard repairs, but the IIgs uses the same
ADB keyboards and mice that the Mac does. I have some spares
if you need some.
- Dave
2:42 p.m.
Vague memories from 25 or 30 years ago, and maybe from the wrong
model of II... the keyswitches have a couple of little tabs on each side
on the keycap side (top) of the KB. They need to be squeezed in to
release the keyswitch. If they are, and the pins are free, the keyswitch
should come out, but they usually need a fair bit of persuading even
then.
Speaking of which, I need some replacement keyswitches and caps
for IIs and IIes. The Reset cap for a II Plus for a start. There are
differences between the keyswitches between models too, but I don't
recall how significant they are.
(And top-posting... for some reason
this webmail client won't let me do anything else. Hooray for that.)
On 30/04/2013 09:06, Jules Richardson wrote:
points bent, and in testing switches around the
damaged area I've found
careful coaxing and it didn't want to move,
but I don't want to try more
I acquired an Apple
IIe at the dump the other
day (and a pair of IIgs
machines, sans
keyboards/mice - more on those
later, probably).
Something heavy
has been dropped on the keyboard - there's no damage to the
keytops
(amazingly), but the keyboard PCB is
cracked and the frame mounting
that the '=' key is permanently shorted (I
assume it took the brunt
of the
impact from whatever-it-was, unless the switches in
these
machines are
prone to decay and subsequent shorting).
Anyway, is
it just a case of desoldering the switch and prying it out of
the
metal frame, or is there more to it than
that? I did try a little
force if it's the wrong approach.
cheers
Jules
5:33 p.m.
On Mon, Apr 29, 2013 at 5:42 PM, Mike van Bokhoven <mike at fenz.net> wrote:
Vague memories from 25 or 30 years ago, and maybe from the wrong
model of II... the keyswitches have a couple of little tabs on each side
on the keycap side (top) of the KB. They need to be squeezed in to
release the keyswitch. If they are, and the pins are free, the keyswitch
should come out, but they usually need a fair bit of persuading even
then.
Speaking of which, I need some replacement keyswitches and caps
for IIs and IIes. The Reset cap for a II Plus for a start. There are
differences between the keyswitches between models too, but I don't
recall how significant they are.
(And top-posting... for some reason
this webmail client won't let me do anything else. Hooray for that.)
On 30/04/2013 09:06, Jules Richardson wrote:
points bent, and in testing switches
around the damaged area I've found
> Anyway, is
it just a case of desoldering the switch and prying it out of
careful coaxing and it didn't want to
move, but I don't want to try more
> force if it's the wrong approach.
> cheers
> Jules
I just had to pull a key switch out of my IIc and it was an easy job. Just
4 solder joints. There was some oxidation on the inside of the switch.
After I cleeeeeeeeaned it off it stoppeeeeeeed typing likeeeeeeeee this.
--
Sent from My Hippopotamus
I acquired an Apple
IIe at the dump the
other day (and a pair of IIgs
machines, sans
keyboards/mice - more on
those later, probably).
Something heavy
has been dropped on the keyboard - there's no damage to the
keytops
(amazingly), but the keyboard PCB
is cracked and the frame mounting
that the '=' key is permanently shorted
(I assume it took the brunt
of the
impact from whatever-it-was, unless the switches
in these
machines are
> prone to decay and subsequent shorting).
the
metal frame, or is there more to it
than that? I did try a little
5:52 p.m.
On 04/29/2013 04:42 PM, Mike van Bokhoven wrote:
Vague memories from 25 or 30 years ago, and maybe from
the wrong
model of II... the keyswitches have a couple of little tabs on each side
on the keycap side (top) of the KB. They need to be squeezed in to
release the keyswitch.
That did the trick - there was so much crud under the keytops that I didn't
realize earlier that they were tabs holding the switch in place (I thought
they were just something holding the switch body itself together). Thanks!
After removing the switch, I dismantled the switch body and found that one
of the metal pieces inside had been bent out of shape (the solder joints
for this switch had failed on the PCB due to the impact, and evidently when
the PCB rebounded after, the metal pins on the underside of the switch had
been pushed back into the switch body, buckling one of the plates inside).
Anyway, I did some very careful straightening and all seems to be well again.
Next task is to bridge the broken keyboard PCB tracks, and then fingers
crossed I'll have a working system. Without the keyboard plugged in it
displays garbage color blocks on the screen and occasionally utters a
string of beeps; thinking that the keyboard was entirely passive, I just
spent some time checking PSU voltages, reseating ICs etc. before finding an
old VCF forum post hinting that this might be the correct behavior in
absence of a keyboard. D'oh! :-)
cheers
Jules
6:33 p.m.
No problems, glad it helped!
Again without much confidence in my
memory, I think the IIe runs its self-test if there's no keyboard
attached. However, that's more regular-looking (and sounding) than what
you're describing, and should end with the message "KERNEL OK" after a
minute or so. Still, see what happens when the KB is done I guess...
On 30/04/2013 12:52, Jules Richardson wrote:
realize earlier that they were tabs holding the
switch in place (I
thought
Anyway, I did some very careful straightening
and all seems to be well
again.
On 04/29/2013 04:42
PM, Mike van Bokhoven
wrote:
> Vague memories from 25 or 30 years
ago, and maybe from the wrong model of II...
the keyswitches have a
couple of little tabs on each side on the keycap side (top) of the KB.
They need to be squeezed in to release the keyswitch.
That did the
trick - there was so much crud under the keytops that I didn't
they were just something holding the switch body
itself
together). Thanks!
After removing the switch, I dismantled the
switch body and found that one
of the metal pieces inside had been
bent out of
shape (the solder joints
for this switch had failed on
the PCB due to the
impact, and evidently when
the PCB rebounded
after, the metal pins on the
underside of the switch had
been pushed
back into the switch body, buckling
one of the plates inside).
Next task is to bridge the broken keyboard PCB tracks, and
then fingers
crossed I'll have a working system. Without the
keyboard
plugged in it
displays garbage color blocks on the screen and
occasionally utters a
string of beeps; thinking that the keyboard was
entirely passive, I just
spent some time checking PSU voltages,
reseating
ICs etc. before finding an
old VCF forum post hinting that
this might be
the correct behavior in
absence of a keyboard. D'oh!
:-)
cheers
Jules
30 Apr
30 Apr
3:40 p.m.
On 04/29/2013 08:33 PM, Mike van Bokhoven wrote:
No problems, glad it helped!
Again without much confidence in my
memory, I think the IIe runs its self-test if there's no keyboard
attached. However, that's more regular-looking (and sounding) than what
you're describing, and should end with the message "KERNEL OK" after a
minute or so. Still, see what happens when the KB is done I guess...
It's alive! It does indeed need the keyboard to be plugged in before it'll
boot to BASIC (with the SSC board that was inside it plugged in, it sits
there until I hit ctrl-reset, but I expect that's down to board config and
it's sitting there in serial terminal mode).
I'm not sure why the self-test didn't seem to be doing anything useful;
maybe I should just leave it running for a while and see if it does
anything (unless anyone happens to know what the key sequence is for
invoking the self-test via the keyboard?).
I'll put it on the to-do list to try and find a monitor for it (it works
great with my big LCD TV, but it'd be nice to have something vintage to
live with it permanently - although I did get an Applecolor RGB CRT with
the IIgs machines, but I have a feeling that doesn't support composite
video input).
Oh, there's a disk II controller board in there too, but there was no sign
at the dump of any drives :-( So, I should probably try and source a drive
for it at some point as well (I *may* still have one in storage over in the
UK, but it probably went with the Apple III that I had)
cheers
Jules
4:46 p.m.
Try the SDISK emulator that uses a SDcard to emulate the Apple Floppy!
This is the more advanced verson (in portuguese) with LCD and keyboard)
http://www.fabio.belavenuto.nom.br/
---
Enviado do meu Motorola PT550
Meu site: http://www.tabalabs.com.br
----- Original Message -----
From: Jules Richardson
To: cctalk at classiccmp.org
Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2013 7:40 PM
Subject: Re: Apple IIe keyboard switches
On 04/29/2013 08:33 PM, Mike van Bokhoven wrote:
No problems, glad it helped!
Again without much confidence in my
memory, I think the IIe runs its self-test if there's no keyboard
attached. However, that's more regular-looking (and sounding) than what
you're describing, and should end with the message "KERNEL OK" after a
minute or so. Still, see what happens when the KB is done I guess...
It's alive! It does indeed need the keyboard to be plugged in before it'll
boot to BASIC (with the SSC board that was inside it plugged in, it sits
there until I hit ctrl-reset, but I expect that's down to board config and
it's sitting there in serial terminal mode).
I'm not sure why the self-test didn't seem to be doing anything useful;
maybe I should just leave it running for a while and see if it does
anything (unless anyone happens to know what the key sequence is for
invoking the self-test via the keyboard?).
I'll put it on the to-do list to try and find a monitor for it (it works
great with my big LCD TV, but it'd be nice to have something vintage to
live with it permanently - although I did get an Applecolor RGB CRT with
the IIgs machines, but I have a feeling that doesn't support composite
video input).
Oh, there's a disk II controller board in there too, but there was no sign
at the dump of any drives :-( So, I should probably try and source a drive
for it at some point as well (I *may* still have one in storage over in the
UK, but it probably went with the Apple III that I had)
cheers
Jules
1 May
1 May
4:53 a.m.
On 1/05/2013 10:40 a.m., Jules Richardson wrote:
I'm not sure why the self-test didn't seem to
be doing anything
useful; maybe I should just leave it running for a while and see if it
does anything (unless anyone happens to know what the key sequence is
for invoking the self-test via the keyboard?).
Ctrl, both Apple keys, Reset I think.
I'll put it on the to-do list to try and find a
monitor for it (it
works great with my big LCD TV, but it'd be nice to have something
vintage to live with it permanently - although I did get an Applecolor
RGB CRT with the IIgs machines, but I have a feeling that doesn't
support composite video input).
If it's the one I think it is (12 inch or so GS-specific monitor) then
no, it's RGB only. It should be pretty easy to find one of the IIe-era
monitors though, especially if you can live without colour.
2 May
2 May
12:45 p.m.
On 05/01/2013 06:53 AM, Mike van Bokhoven wrote:
Yes, that seems like the one.
On 1/05/2013 10:40 a.m., Jules Richardson wrote:
Thanks - that worked! It dropped right into a sensible (and monochrome)
test, not the screen full of colored squares that I get with no keyboard at
all plugged in - which makes me think that the latter is something else
(possibly just outright confusion / incomplete power-on sequence)
I'm not sure why the self-test didn't
seem to be doing anything useful;
maybe I should just leave it running for a while and see if it does
anything (unless anyone happens to know what the key sequence is for
invoking the self-test via the keyboard?).
Ctrl, both Apple keys, Reset I think. I'll put
it on the to-do list to try and find a monitor for it (it works
great with my big LCD TV, but it'd be nice to have something vintage to
live with it permanently - although I did get an Applecolor RGB CRT with
the IIgs machines, but I have a feeling that doesn't support composite
video input).
If it's the one I think it is (12 inch or so GS-specific monitor) it's RGB only.
Rats. I saw several IIe-era monitors (and IIe systems, Disk II drives
etc.) in a dumpster less than an hour ago, but wasn't allowed to take
anything - I expect they're off to the crusher. :-(
cheers
Jules
1:39 p.m.
On May 2, 2013, at 3:45 PM, Jules Richardson <jules.richardson99 at gmail.com>
wrote:
Any old CRT TV is generally a decent monitor for the IIe and similar. The
cheaper, the better; you want good, fuzzy pixels. :-) Modern LCD TVs,
when they'll sync at all (mine has trouble) look like garbage, partly
because they're much sharper.
If you know a good dump, chances are you can find cheap-ass CRT TVs from
the mid-'90s that will do a fine job for your purposes. Same goes if you
try to run vintage game systems like an NES.
- Dave
it's RGB
only.
Rats. I saw several IIe-era monitors (and IIe systems, Disk II drives etc.) in a
dumpster less than an hour ago, but wasn't allowed to take anything - I expect
they're off to the crusher. :-( 
4:16 p.m.
Most thrift stores I go to still have a good assortment of CRT TVs.
-
Marty
Sent from my iPad
On May 2, 2013, at 3:39 PM, David Riley <fraveydank at gmail.com> wrote:
On May 2, 2013, at 3:45 PM, Jules Richardson
<jules.richardson99 at gmail.com> wrote:
Any old CRT TV is generally a decent monitor for the IIe and similar. The
cheaper, the better; you want good, fuzzy pixels. :-) Modern LCD TVs,
when they'll sync at all (mine has trouble) look like garbage, partly
because they're much sharper.
If you know a good dump, chances are you can find cheap-ass CRT TVs from
the mid-'90s that will do a fine job for your purposes. Same goes if you
try to run vintage game systems like an NES.
- Dave
it's
RGB only.
Rats. I saw several IIe-era monitors (and IIe systems, Disk II drives etc.) in a
dumpster less than an hour ago, but wasn't allowed to take anything - I expect
they're off to the crusher. :-( 
3 May
3 May
6:50 a.m.
It would be nice to figure out a good common TV set that could be adapted
to Analog RGB or CGA.
On Thu, May 2, 2013 at 6:16 PM, Martin Goldberg <wgungfu at gmail.com> wrote:
Most thrift stores I go to still have a good
assortment of CRT TVs.
-
Marty
Sent from my iPad
On May 2, 2013, at 3:39 PM, David Riley <fraveydank at gmail.com> wrote:
On May 2, 2013, at 3:45 PM, Jules Richardson <
jules.richardson99 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> it's RGB only.
>
> Rats. I saw several IIe-era monitors (and IIe systems, Disk II drives
etc.)
in a dumpster less than an hour ago, but wasn't allowed to take
anything - I expect they're off to the crusher. :-(
Any old CRT TV is generally a decent monitor for the IIe and similar.
The
cheaper, the better; you want good, fuzzy pixels.
:-) Modern LCD TVs,
when they'll sync at all (mine has trouble) look like garbage, partly
because they're much sharper.
If you know a good dump, chances are you can find cheap-ass CRT TVs from
the mid-'90s that will do a fine job for your purposes. Same goes if you
try to run vintage game systems like an NES.
- Dave
6:59 a.m.
Why don't you use a LCD?
You can use 15-khz-aware LCDs... Samsungs 510N, 710N, 910N, 910T and LGs M1521A,
M1721A, M1921A are all useable in 15Khz machines. I have a M1721A in my desk, which I use
on MSX, Amiga and Sinclair computers...it even runs 50Hz machines!
And, of course, you can use a upscaler. There are lots of them for cheap in Ebay.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-Arcade-game-RGB-CGA-EGA-YUV-to-VGA-HD-video-con…
is an example (I don't know the seller, etc). They work flawlessly.
---
Enviado do meu Motorola PT550
Meu site: http://www.tabalabs.com.br
----- Original Message -----
From: Geoffrey Oltmans
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Sent: Friday, May 03, 2013 10:50 AM
Subject: Re: Apple IIe keyboard switches
It would be nice to figure out a good common TV set that could be adapted
to Analog RGB or CGA.
On Thu, May 2, 2013 at 6:16 PM, Martin Goldberg <wgungfu at gmail.com> wrote:
Most thrift stores I go to still have a good
assortment of CRT TVs.
-
Marty
Sent from my iPad
On May 2, 2013, at 3:39 PM, David Riley <fraveydank at gmail.com> wrote:
On May 2, 2013, at 3:45 PM, Jules Richardson <
jules.richardson99 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> it's RGB only.
>
> Rats. I saw several IIe-era monitors (and IIe systems, Disk II drives
etc.)
in a dumpster less than an hour ago, but wasn't allowed to take
anything - I expect they're off to the crusher. :-(
Any old CRT TV is generally a decent monitor for the IIe and similar.
The
cheaper, the better; you want good, fuzzy pixels.
:-) Modern LCD TVs,
when they'll sync at all (mine has trouble) look like garbage, partly
because they're much sharper.
If you know a good dump, chances are you can find cheap-ass CRT TVs from
the mid-'90s that will do a fine job for your purposes. Same goes if you
try to run vintage game systems like an NES.
- Dave
7:13 a.m.
Interesting. None of the LCD TVs that we have in our house will sync to any
scan rates less than the 31kHz standard VGA.
On Fri, May 3, 2013 at 8:59 AM, Alexandre Souza <
alexandre.tabajara at gmail.com> wrote:
Why don't you use a LCD?
You can use 15-khz-aware LCDs... Samsungs 510N, 710N, 910N, 910T and
LGs M1521A, M1721A, M1921A are all useable in 15Khz machines. I have a
M1721A in my desk, which I use on MSX, Amiga and Sinclair computers...it
even runs 50Hz machines!
And, of course, you can use a upscaler. There are lots of them for
cheap in Ebay.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-Arcade-game-RGB-CGA-EGA-YUV-to-VGA-HD-video-con…
an example (I don't know the seller, etc). They work flawlessly.
---
Enviado do meu Motorola PT550
Meu site: http://www.tabalabs.com.br
----- Original Message -----
From: Geoffrey Oltmans
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Sent: Friday, May 03, 2013 10:50 AM
Subject: Re: Apple IIe keyboard switches
It would be nice to figure out a good common TV set that could be adapted
to Analog RGB or CGA.
On Thu, May 2, 2013 at 6:16 PM, Martin Goldberg <wgungfu at gmail.com>
wrote:
Most thrift stores I go to still have a good
assortment of CRT TVs.
-
Marty
Sent from my iPad
On May 2, 2013, at 3:39 PM, David Riley <fraveydank at gmail.com> wrote:
drives
On May 2, 2013, at 3:45 PM, Jules Richardson <
jules.richardson99 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>> it's RGB only.
>>
>> Rats. I saw several IIe-era monitors (and IIe systems, Disk II etc.) in a dumpster less than an hour ago, but
wasn't allowed to take
anything - I expect they're off to the crusher. :-(
TVs,
Any old CRT TV is generally a decent monitor for the IIe and similar.
The
> cheaper, the better; you want good, fuzzy pixels. :-) Modern LCD > when they'll sync at all (mine has
trouble) look like garbage, partly
> because they're much sharper.
>
> If you know a good dump, chances are you can find cheap-ass CRT TVs
from
> the mid-'90s that will do a fine job for
your purposes. Same goes
if you
try to
run vintage game systems like an NES.
- Dave
7:35 a.m.
Interesting. None of the LCD TVs that we have in our
house will sync to any
scan rates less than the 31kHz standard VGA.
Sometimes you gotta use a LM1881 (sync separator) on the CSYNC signal, or - gasp - do
not connect the Vsync signal to the monitor whatsoever!
This is very common in the samsung monitors.
A pair of useful links (sorry, in portuguese, use google translator):
http://www.msxpro.com/rgb-vga-universal.html
http://www.msxpro.com/rgb-vga.html
And using the scandoubler
http://www.msxpro.com/rgb-vga_gbs-8200.html
Hope that helps...I though it was a common subject for you americans :) It is very
common for us brazilians to use these LCD monitors with old computers.
8:01 a.m.
On Fri, May 3, 2013 at 9:35 AM, Alexandre Souza <
alexandre.tabajara at gmail.com> wrote:
This is very common in the samsung monitors.
A pair of useful links (sorry, in portuguese, use google translator):
http://www.msxpro.com/rgb-vga-universal.html
http://www.msxpro.com/rgb-vga.html
And using the scandoubler
http://www.msxpro.com/rgb-vga_gbs-8200.html
Interesting information, thanks for the links!
12:36 p.m.
Why don't you use a LCD?
I can't speak for others. But, personally, the principal reason is,
they typically look like crap when displaying at anything but their
native resolution and are too stupid to be told to fix it.
If the display in question has an option to black-surround rather than
scaling, that would help - but it's been a long time since I saw one of
those. (Ideal would probably be to scale by the largest possible
_integer_ factor, but I don't think I've ever seen that, at all.)
Often, even when scaling, they get it wrong - I regularly see peecee
BIOS text consoles (which you'd think would be the best-supported case
for scaling) cutting off one or even two character positions on one
side or the other.
While it isn't likely to apply to the IIe case, I also find flatscreens
obnoxious because, when fed higher resolution than they expect, they
don't display _anything_. A CRT will generally squish it to fit and
(perforce) drop pixels because the shadow mask is too coarse, but
it'll usually do something recognizable. Admittedly, this is not a
fault with the basic technology but a fault of the interface logic, but
it correlates well enough with the basic technology in my experience.
/~\ The ASCII Mouse
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1:40 p.m.
I can't speak for others. But, personally, the
principal reason is,
they typically look like crap when displaying at anything but their
native resolution and are too stupid to be told to fix it.
Please, use a M1721A or M1921A...You'll be VERY surprised.
Do you want me to take some photos using classic computers (I have here ZX81, MSX,
Amiga that I can photograph today) and show them up on a page?
9:12 p.m.
I can't
speak for others. But, personally, the principal reason is,
they typically look like crap when displaying at anything but their
native resolution and are too stupid to be told to fix it.
Please, use a M1721A or
M1921A...You'll be VERY surprised. Do you want me to take some photos using classic
computers (I have here ZX81$
I'd be curious, but only mildly; I'm perfectly willing to take your
word for it that the models you name are non-stupid about such things.
/~\ The ASCII Mouse
\ / Ribbon Campaign
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/ \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B
9:36 p.m.
I take it those are model numbers? Which
manufacturer(s)?
Google would have helped :) LG monitors, seems to be avaiable in USA. They have
composite video, S-Video, RGB and Aerial (with optional tuner module) inputs.
I'm glad to hear there are non-braindamaged
flatscreens; my experience
of them must be an artifact of the ones I've encountered. (Not
entirely surprising, since many - most, I think - of them have been at
work and thus likely to be el-cheapo models....)
Yep, the LG M1*21A are better monitors than Samsung's for this kind of use
Do you want me to take some photos using classic
computers (I have here ZX81$
I'd be curious, but only mildly; I'm perfectly willing to take your
word for it that the models you name are non-stupid about such things.
I'll do better, as soon as I have some free time, I'll do a complete page
about connecting old gear to these monitors, with schematics and detailed photos...It is a
good project for this month
(talking about this month...My birthday is on 24th of May...Of course I accept all
kinds of old computer gear, incluiding apple //GS, Sinclair Spectrum +2/+3 and other old
and fun computers :D)
:oD
Alexandre :o)
7:15 a.m.
On May 3, 2013, at 9:50 AM, Geoffrey Oltmans <oltmansg at gmail.com> wrote:
It would be nice to figure out a good common TV set
that could be adapted
to Analog RGB or CGA.
CGA is less likely, since it's not really analog. Analog RGB is
already pretty well supported by SCART, but that's not much help
to those of us in the US or anywhere that's not Britain. It's
silly in a way, since the signal has to be converted to RGB
internally to display on the CRT, but most manufacturers weren't
interested in spending money on connectors and circuitry that
almost no one would use.
The Apple IIgs monitor scans at 15 KHz, though, so it's actually
a pretty good candidate for analog RGB. I use it to test arcade
boards, which generally scan at 15 KHz as well. Any other arcade
monitor ought to do the trick. It's harder to find VGA monitors
that will do it (even LCDs, which is a shame because it's really
only a matter of firmware with them).
Clarification to the above: 15 KHz refers to the horizontal scan
rate; vertical (in the US) is 30 or 60 Hz, depending on how you
count the interlaced frames if you have them (arcade monitors are
generally not interlaced, but TVs and anything that takes the
standard composite TV signal are).
- Dave
7:32 a.m.
On Fri, May 3, 2013 at 9:15 AM, David Riley <fraveydank at gmail.com> wrote:
The Apple IIgs monitor scans at 15 KHz, though, so it's actually
a pretty good candidate for analog RGB. I use it to
test arcade
boards, which generally scan at 15 KHz as well. Any other arcade
monitor ought to do the trick. It's harder to find VGA monitors
that will do it (even LCDs, which is a shame because it's really
only a matter of firmware with them).
Same here, except I use a Amiga 1080 monitor. I've also used it with some
arcade board sets as well, and it's probably a tad bigger than the IIgs
monitor. ;)
11:33 a.m.
On Fri, 3 May 2013, David Riley wrote:
On May 3, 2013, at 9:50 AM, Geoffrey Oltmans
<oltmansg at gmail.com> wrote:
No currently-manufactured sets available in the US have SCART inputs, but
the Samsung 730MW and 940MW both are so equipped and frequently appear
on eBay. Either makes a great solution for display of analog RGB from
vintage gear (I have one of each).
Unfortunately for us Apple 2 enthusiasts, the Apple //e composite video
has a non-standard dot-clock and doesn't look very good on the Samsung
units (or any scan-converter I've tried, for that matter). I have to keep
one or two composite CRT monitors on hand.
Steve
--
It would be nice to figure out a good common TV
set that could be adapted
to Analog RGB or CGA.
CGA is less likely, since it's not really analog. Analog RGB is
already pretty well supported by SCART, but that's not much help
to those of us in the US or anywhere that's not Britain. It's
silly in a way, since the signal has to be converted to RGB
internally to display on the CRT, but most manufacturers weren't
interested in spending money on connectors and circuitry that
almost no one would use. 
12:06 p.m.
Steven Hirsch wrote:
Unfortunately for us Apple 2 enthusiasts, the Apple
//e composite video
has a non-standard dot-clock and doesn't look very good on the Samsung
units (or any scan-converter I've tried, for that matter). I have to
keep one or two composite CRT monitors on hand.
Might be time to build a scan converter specifically for the //e.
Peace... Sridhar
2:58 p.m.
On Fri, 3 May 2013, Sridhar Ayengar wrote:
Steven Hirsch wrote:
I'd love to have such a thing. Wish I had the requisite knowledge to
design it.
--
Unfortunately for us Apple 2 enthusiasts, the
Apple //e composite video
has a non-standard dot-clock and doesn't look very good on the Samsung
units (or any scan-converter I've tried, for that matter). I have to
keep one or two composite CRT monitors on hand.
Might be time to build a scan converter specifically for the //e.
6:52 p.m.
> Unfortunately for us Apple 2 enthusiasts, the
Apple //e composite video
> has a non-standard dot-clock and doesn't look very good on the Samsung
> units (or any scan-converter I've tried, for that matter). I have to
> keep one or two composite CRT monitors on hand.
I don't have an original //e (what a dream...) but the brazilian clone, the
TK3000//e, has an excellent image on the LG M1721A monitor...
1:39 p.m.
On Fri, 3 May 2013, Geoffrey Oltmans wrote:
It would be nice to figure out a good common TV set
that could be adapted
to Analog RGB or CGA.
For B&W, I'm partial to the 1970s RCA, like the one on Al Bundy's kitchen
counter. Pull the tuner out, convert to composite input, put a grommet in
the volume control knob hole for input cable, and paint it gray. Then you
have the TRS80 model 1 monitor. Instead of leaving the tuner space
vacant, you can mount a full height (or 2 half height) 5.25" floppy there.
(a piece of mu-metal helps).
Don Lancaster wrote a few books on making monitors out of TV sets.
Oh.
You probably meant something current.
3:44 p.m.
On Fri, 3 May 2013, Geoffrey Oltmans wrote:
The thing I dislike about that chessis is that it's 'hot'. It's directly
conencted to the mains. That's why the US version of the visdeo input
PCB (which fits in place of the IF strip PCB) in the TRS-80 M1 monitor
has an opto-isolator on it, The driver for that optoisolaotr needs a +5V
feed from the computer, which makes it not so easy to use with other
machines.
The European verion, btw has a step-down _isolating_ transofrmer on the
mains input to covert 220V maisn to the 115V needed by the TV chassis. So
the video input PCB is just a transistor amplifier with no opto-isolator.
Incidntally, I maanged to get one of those monitors to do MDA scan rates
by tweakign the hold controls. It wasn't very happy, but it did produce
an image which was good enough to see there was something in the vidoe
signal. I would not want to runt it at such rates for very long.
It would be nice to figure out a good common TV
set that could be adapted
to Analog RGB or CGA.
For B&W, I'm partial to the 1970s RCA, like the one on Al Bundy's kitchen
counter. Pull the tuner out, convert to composite input, put a grommet in the volume control knob hole for input cable, and
paint it gray. Then you
You men the 'V' over that hole doesn't stand for 'video' :-) (Yes, I
know
the volume cotnrol was there in the TV version, somewhere I have the M1
monitor service manual which is the RCA TV manual with some bits missed
out and an extra section for the video input PCB).
have the TRS80 model 1 monitor. Instead of leaving
the tuner space
vacant, you can mount a full height (or 2 half height) 5.25" floppy there.
(a piece of mu-metal helps).
Don Lancaster wrote a few books on making monitors out of TV sets.
Oh.
You probably meant something current.
A few years ago over here there were some cheap 5" B&W TVs (with an AM/FM
radio built in). They run off intenral batteris, or a 12V input (a car
battery cable and mains adapter were genreally suppleid with said sets).
I bought a couple with the intention of addign a compositie input socket,
only when I got them home did I realsie that said facility was standard.
Although I'd not want to sue a 5" montior all day, they are very handy on
the workbench for g]checking if a home compute is producing any output.
-tony
2:13 p.m.
New subject: [cctalk] Re: Apple IIe keyboard switches
SUITS!
--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA
On May 2, 2013, at 4:44 PM, "Alexandre Souza" <alexandre.tabajara at
gmail.com> wrote:
Rats. I saw
several IIe-era monitors (and IIe systems, Disk II drives
etc.) in a dumpster less than an hour ago, but wasn't allowed to take
anything - I expect they're off to the crusher. :-(
:'(
WHY??? :o(
3 May
3 May
7:27 a.m.
Do the keyswitches look like the ones from the early Mac keyboards?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Keyswitch-for-Macintosh-128k-512k-or-Mac-Plus-keybo…
On Mon, Apr 29, 2013 at 4:06 PM, Jules Richardson <
jules.richardson99 at gmail.com> wrote:
I acquired an Apple IIe at the dump the other day (and a pair of IIgs
machines, sans keyboards/mice - more on those later, probably).
Something heavy has been dropped on the keyboard - there's no damage to
the keytops (amazingly), but the keyboard PCB is cracked and the frame
mounting points bent, and in testing switches around the damaged area I've
found that the '=' key is permanently shorted (I assume it took the brunt
of the impact from whatever-it-was, unless the switches in these machines
are prone to decay and subsequent shorting).
Anyway, is it just a case of desoldering the switch and prying it out of
the metal frame, or is there more to it than that? I did try a little
careful coaxing and it didn't want to move, but I don't want to try more
force if it's the wrong approach.
cheers
Jules
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