30 Oct
2010
30 Oct
'10
1:52 p.m.
Anybody no where to score some Sig 82S23 / Nat 74S188 parts ? I've tried all
the usual suspects ( Ebay, local parts houses, Digikey, etc. ) with no joy.
I believe this part was used on old S100 boards.
Part also known as ( a.k.a. ) Fu 7111, AMD 27S18, MMI 6330, TI 18SA30 and
Harris 7602. Need this part to fix an old computer controlled RF Power
amplifier.
Thanks for any and all help.
Best regards, Steven
30 Oct
30 Oct
2:11 p.m.
looks for 74S188 with google
http://www.futurlec.com/Memory/74S188pr.shtml
2:18 p.m.
On 30 Oct 2010 at 13:52, alan canning wrote:
Anybody no where to score some Sig 82S23 / Nat 74S188
parts ? I've
tried all the usual suspects ( Ebay, local parts houses, Digikey, etc.
) with no joy. I believe this part was used on old S100 boards.
Part also known as ( a.k.a. ) Fu 7111, AMD 27S18, MMI 6330, TI 18SA30
and Harris 7602. Need this part to fix an old computer controlled RF
Power amplifier.
If you'd like something a bit closer to home, you might try ACP--
they're listing some IM5603s on eBay for $7.95 the each.
--Chuck
2:40 p.m.
On 30 Oct 2010 at 14:18, Chuck Guzis wrote:
If you'd like something a bit closer to home, you
might try ACP--
they're listing some IM5603s on eBay for $7.95 the each.
Scratch that--they're 1Kbit PROMs. My bad.
Although, if you can make it work by juggling a couple of signals,
you can try the 3-state 82S123 version or perhaps the 1Kbit
(82S29/129) versions.
The bigger problem for me would be finding a programmer for these
things. I've got a mess of SN74S471s and no way to program them.
--Chuck
31 Oct
31 Oct
8:28 a.m.
On Sat, Oct 30, 2010 at 2:40 PM, Chuck Guzis <cclist at sydex.com> wrote:
The bigger problem for me would be finding a programmer for these
things. ?I've got a mess of SN74S471s and no way to program them.
I have the Nat Semi DM74LS471 on the device list of my programmer, but
not the SN74S471. Any chance the programming algorithms are the same?
-Glen
10:11 a.m.
On 31 Oct 2010 at 8:28, Glen Slick wrote:
On Sat, Oct 30, 2010 at 2:40 PM, Chuck Guzis
<cclist at sydex.com> wrote:
I have the Nat Semi DM74LS471 on the device list of my programmer, but
not the SN74S471. Any chance the programming algorithms are the same?
They probably are. Somewhere in the history of TI part numbers, they
changed some of the bipolar memories from the SN74xxx part number to
TBPxxx. I can't recall which way my parts are labeled, but they're
471s under the hood.
--Chuck
The
bigger problem for me would be finding a programmer for these
things. ?I've got
a mess of SN74S471s and no way to program them. > 
11:07 a.m.
On 10/31/2010 10:11 AM, Chuck Guzis wrote:
On 31 Oct 2010 at 8:28, Glen Slick wrote:
True, but it has absolutely *nothing* to do with whether a National
Semiconductor DM74LS471 uses the same programming algorithm and
electrical parameters as the SN74S471. They might, but it was not
uncommon for different vendors to have parts that did NOT program in the
same way. They often did their own designs, with different types of
fuses and materials, requiring different programming parameters.
Eric
On Sat, Oct 30, 2010 at 2:40 PM, Chuck
Guzis<cclist at sydex.com> wrote:
I have the Nat Semi DM74LS471 on the device list of my programmer, but
not the SN74S471. Any chance the programming algorithms are the same?
They probably are. Somewhere in the history of TI part numbers, they
changed some of the bipolar memories from the SN74xxx part number to
TBPxxx. I can't recall which way my parts are labeled, but they're
471s under the hood.
The
bigger problem for me would be finding a programmer for these
things. I've got a mess of SN74S471s and no way to program
them.>
11:50 a.m.
I have the Nat
Semi DM74LS471 on the device list of my programmer, but
not the SN74S471. Any chance the programming algorithms are the same?
They probably are. Somewhere in the history of TI part numbers, they
changed some of the bipolar memories from the SN74xxx part number to
TBPxxx. I can't recall which way my parts are labeled, but they're
471s under the hood.
12:23 p.m.
On 31 Oct 2010 at 18:50, Tony Duell wrote:
But I didn't think the National (DM74xxx) and
Texas (SN74xxx)
programming algorithms were the same. I also seem to remember that at
least one manufactuerer changed the programming algorithm for their
fusible link pats at one point, probably accompanied by a change in
part number. They all read the same way, of course.
Okay, I went and dug through my tubes of ICs and found them. They're
TI TBP18S22N units. I don't know how the programming compares with
the National parts.
I'm going to have to itemize the stuff in my hellbox one of these
days...
--Chuck
1:06 p.m.
On Sun, 31 Oct 2010, Tony Duell wrote:
But I didn't think the National (DM74xxx) and Texas (SN74xxx) programming
algorithms were the same. I also seem to remember that at least one
manufactuerer changed the programming algorithm for their fusible link
pats at one point, probably accompanied by a change in part number. They
all read the same way, of course.
My Andromeda PROM programmer adapter calls out a slightly different Vpp
and pulse-width for some of the part families.
--
I have the Nat Semi DM74LS471 on the device list of my
programmer, but
not the SN74S471. Any chance the programming algorithms are the same?
They probably are. Somewhere in the history of TI part numbers, they
changed some of the bipolar memories from the SN74xxx part number to
TBPxxx. I can't recall which way my parts are labeled, but they're
471s under the hood.
30 Oct
30 Oct
2:21 p.m.
Anybody no where to score some Sig 82S23 / Nat 74S188 parts ? I've tried all
the usual suspects ( Ebay, local parts houses, Digikey, etc. ) with no joy.
I believe this part was used on old S100 boards.
Part also known as ( a.k.a. ) Fu 7111, AMD 27S18, MMI 6330, TI 18SA30 and
Harris 7602. Need this part to fix an old computer controlled RF Power
amplifier.
IIRC, this is a PROM, 32*8 I think. Do you have a copy of the data to
program into it? A blank chip is not a lot of use to you otherwise...
Also while all the derives you've mentioned are I think compatible when
being read (that is, as they are normally used in the circuit), the
programming algorithms are different for differnet manufacturers. You need
to get one that your programmer can handle
-tony
2:35 p.m.
On 30/10/2010 3:21 PM, Tony Duell wrote:
IIRC, this is a PROM, 32*8 I think. Do you have a copy
of the data to
program into it? A blank chip is not a lot of use to you otherwise...
You can get proms burned here:
http://www.hobbyroms.com/index.html
Does the output have to Open Collector?
I was thing of substituting a 32x8 tristate prom.
Also while all the derives you've mentioned are I
think compatible when
being read (that is, as they are normally used in the circuit), the
programming algorithms are different for differnet manufacturers. You need
to get one that your programmer can handle
-tony
8:19 p.m.
Many thanks to all who responded ( and so quickly ) and thanks for the
heads-up on the programmimng problems with the alternate parts. Also thanks
for the website of the guy who can program these parts. My programmer only
does modern parts; EPROMs and EEPROMs.
Yes I have to use the open collector parts. The old parts did not suffer bit
rot ( as is usually the case ) but rather where nuked into submission by a
huge RF E-field due to a broken grounding / shielding scheme ( may have seen
100 Volts per meter !! ).
After checking MANY empty sources found a cache of parts at
www.jameco.comfor $5.45 each so I bought a tube of them.
Thanks again for all the help.
Best regards, Steven
31 Oct
31 Oct
3:35 a.m.
New subject: [OT]? Sun Ultra 60
Hmmm, is an Ultra 60 offtopic? :o)
Just got one (eee!!!), now what to do with that?
I could use a keyboard and mouse from Sun, since I have none :(
Thanks!
Alexandre
---
Enviado do meu Motorola PT550
9:06 a.m.
New subject: [OT]? Sun Ultra 60
On 10/31/10 6:35 AM, Alexandre Souza - Listas wrote:
Hmmm, is an Ultra 60 offtopic? :o)
WAY off-topic.
Just got one (eee!!!),
Cool!
now what to do with that?
Just about anything you can think of, except lots of floating point math.
I could use a keyboard and mouse from Sun, since I
have none :(
Problem solved; I'll put a set in the box I'm packing up for you.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire
Port Charlotte, FL
10:12 a.m.
New subject: [OT]? Sun Ultra 60
At 12:06 PM -0400 10/31/10, Dave McGuire wrote:
Agreed!
One comment, the older the OS the better, and OpenBSD is an option.
Cool! In the mean time plug in a serial terminal. The Ultra 60 is
one of the few Suns I've ever used a keyboard and mouse on, though I
typically used a PS/2 keyboard an mouse on mine. I have a Sun
adapter that allows that, and it works with a KVM. I've not gotten
any of my Sun HW set back up since we bought our house.
Sun HW and a couple SGI O2's are the only real exceptions to my rule
about not collecting UNIX HW. I used the Suns a lot as general
purpose workstations and servers at home. Either running Solaris, or
OpenBSD.
Zane
--
| Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator |
| healyzh at aracnet.com | OpenVMS Enthusiast |
| | Photographer |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
| My flickr Photostream |
| http://www.flickr.com/photos/33848088 at N03/ |
On 10/31/10 6:35 AM, Alexandre Souza - Listas wrote:
Some of us would debate that. I personally think the Ultra 2 and the
Ultra 60 as two of Sun's greatest machines. They're practical to
own, and take processors that will make them fairly useful. I'm also
pretty fond of Sparc 20's.
My Ultra 60 has dual 450Mhz CPU's, it's far more practical than my
SunBlade 1000 (to much electricity used, and heat generated). My
only problem is I've never gotten a Copper GigE card.
Hmmm, is an Ultra 60 offtopic? :o)
WAY off-topic. Just got one
(eee!!!),
Cool! now what to do
with that?
Just about anything you can think of, except lots of floating point math. I could use a
keyboard and mouse from Sun, since I have none :(
Problem solved; I'll put a set in the box I'm packing up for you.
10:19 a.m.
New subject: [OT]? Sun Ultra 60
On 10/31/10 1:12 PM, Zane H. Healy wrote:
Some of us would debate that. I personally think the Ultra 2 and the
Ultra 60 as two of Sun's greatest machines. They're practical to own,
and take processors that will make them fairly useful.
I agree that they're two of their best designs. I just think that
machines which are still pretty common in production environments, built
around a modern architecture, are hardly "classic computers". That's all.
One comment, the older the OS the better, and OpenBSD is an option.
...unless you want to use it for real work of course. (referencing
"older", not OpenBSD)
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire
Port Charlotte, FL
Hmmm, is an Ultra 60 offtopic? :o)
WAY off-topic. I'm also pretty fond of Sparc 20's.
As am I.
now what to do with that?
Just about anything you can think of, except lots of floating point math.
10:24 a.m.
New subject: [OT]? Sun Ultra 60
At 1:19 PM -0400 10/31/10, Dave McGuire wrote:
We have a production system still running Solaris 2.6 at work. I was
thinking along the lines of the older the OS, the less cruft, and the
better on the older hardware. For the past few years I've typically
run Solaris 8 at home, though I have Solaris 10 on the SunBlade 1000.
Zane
--
| Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator |
| healyzh at aracnet.com | OpenVMS Enthusiast |
| | Photographer |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
| My flickr Photostream |
| http://www.flickr.com/photos/33848088 at N03/ |
One comment,
the older the OS the better, and OpenBSD is an option.
...unless you want to use it for real work of course.
(referencing "older", not OpenBSD)
1:06 p.m.
New subject: [OT]? Sun Ultra 60
On 10/31/10 1:24 PM, Zane H. Healy wrote:
We have a production system still running Solaris 2.6 at work. I was
thinking along the lines of the older the OS, the less cruft, and the
better on the older hardware.
Certainly a good point. I'd not draw that line at the Ultra60,
though, because (as you know) they can be reasonably zippy if
well-provisioned. Ultra30s, Ultra1s, the previous 32-bit SPARCs,
definitely. (NetBSD hauls ass on those!)
One comment, the older the OS the better, and OpenBSD
is an option.
...unless you want to use it for real work of course. (referencing
"older", not OpenBSD) For the past few years I've typically run
Solaris 8 at home, though I have Solaris 10 on the SunBlade 1000.
Myself, at this point I can't imagine running a network without Zones
and ZFS. They've both pretty dramatically changed the way I build
networks. Solaris 10 all the way, for me!
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire
Port Charlotte, FL
1:49 p.m.
New subject: [OT]? Sun Ultra 60
Certainly a good point. I'd not draw that line
at the Ultra60, though,
because (as you know) they can be reasonably zippy if well-provisioned.
Ultra30s, Ultra1s, the previous 32-bit SPARCs, definitely. (NetBSD hauls
ass on those!)
And mine would zip even more with 450MHz processors and more memory :o)
:o) :o)
> For the past few years I've typically run
> Solaris 8 at home, though I have Solaris 10 on the SunBlade 1000.
I'm curious to see solaris working (and it may even be installed on it).
What version of Solaris would be well suited for this machine, providing I
want to do something with it (maybe file serving, web browsing, crazy
penetration tests, whatever)?
2:24 p.m.
New subject: [OT]? Sun Ultra 60
On 10/31/10 4:49 PM, Alexandre Souza - Listas wrote:
Yes. For real-world workloads, they're about the equivalent of maybe
1-1.2GHz x86 CPUs.
I'd recommend sticking with the latest, Solaris 10, 9/10 release.
That machine will run it happily, and you'll be running cutting-edge,
extremely high-tech UNIX.
These machines are much better at being servers than at being
workstations, but you'll do fine.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire
Port Charlotte, FL
Certainly a
good point. I'd not draw that line at the Ultra60, though,
because (as you know) they can be reasonably zippy if
well-provisioned. Ultra30s, Ultra1s, the previous 32-bit SPARCs,
definitely. (NetBSD hauls ass on those!)
And mine would zip even more with 450MHz processors and more memory :o)
:o) :o) > For the
past few years I've typically run
> Solaris 8 at home, though I have Solaris 10 on the SunBlade 1000.
I'm curious to see solaris working (and it may even be installed on it).
What version of Solaris would be well suited for this machine, providing
I want to do something with it (maybe file serving, web browsing, crazy
penetration tests, whatever)?
1:55 p.m.
New subject: [OT]? Sun Ultra 60
At 4:06 PM -0400 10/31/10, Dave McGuire wrote:
I've run 10 at home briefly, but for the most part at work we stopped
at 8, with a few systems running 9. Now we're mostly Linux &
Windows. :-(
Zane
--
| Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator |
| healyzh at aracnet.com | OpenVMS Enthusiast |
| | Photographer |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
| My flickr Photostream |
| http://www.flickr.com/photos/33848088 at N03/ |
Certainly a good point. I'd not draw that line
at the Ultra60,
though, because (as you know) they can be reasonably zippy if
well-provisioned. Ultra30s, Ultra1s, the previous 32-bit SPARCs,
definitely. (NetBSD hauls ass on those!)
I've never actually touched an Ultra 30, in fact I don't think I've
ever seen one. I'd love a nice Ultra 1E/200 for OpenBSD, I imagine
it would rock on it. It's pretty nice on a Sparc 5/70. The nice
thing about OpenBSD is it's pretty light on RAM usage. I like
running on S-Bus systems as I have a bunch of 4-port 100Mbit cards.
Plus they squeeze into a small space.
For the past
few years I've typically run
Solaris 8 at home, though I have Solaris 10 on the SunBlade 1000.
Myself, at this point I can't imagine running a network without
Zones and ZFS. They've both pretty dramatically changed the way I
build networks. Solaris 10 all the way, for me!
2:11 p.m.
New subject: [OT]? Sun Ultra 60
On 10/31/10 4:55 PM, Zane H. Healy wrote:
I've never actually touched an Ultra 30, in fact I
don't think I've ever
seen one.
I've had a few. Basically uniprocessor Ultra60s with significantly
limited CPU module compatibility. Oh, and they only have one UPA
framebuffer slot, not two like the Ultra60. Basically a sadly
lobotomized Ultra60.
I'd love a nice Ultra 1E/200 for OpenBSD, I
imagine it would
rock on it. It's pretty nice on a Sparc 5/70. The nice thing about
OpenBSD is it's pretty light on RAM usage. I like running on S-Bus
systems as I have a bunch of 4-port 100Mbit cards. Plus they squeeze
into a small space.
Yes, they are impressively compact. The BSDs really do fly on those
machines. I'm deploying lots of Netra X1s (400 & 500MHz UltraSPARC-IIe)
at customer sites these days as firewall/VPN endpoint machines, running
NetBSD from nifty little 1GB SSDs that plug right into the ATA connector
on the board.
I've run 10 at home briefly, but for the most part
at work we stopped at
8, with a few systems running 9. Now we're mostly Linux & Windows. :-(
Eeeek. Time to move. ;) (though Linux certainly has grown up in
recent years...I can't really complain about it now)
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire
Port Charlotte, FL
3:10 p.m.
New subject: [OT]? Sun Ultra 60
At 5:11 PM -0400 10/31/10, Dave McGuire wrote:
Not my call, for us Solaris is a legacy platform. :-( These days I'm
doing good to dabble occasionally with a Linux box. Helps I'm
basically the only one in my group with UNIX experience. That means
I get called in for unusual problems. :-)
Zane
--
| Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator |
| healyzh at aracnet.com | OpenVMS Enthusiast |
| | Photographer |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
| My flickr Photostream |
| http://www.flickr.com/photos/33848088 at N03/ |
I've had a few. Basically uniprocessor Ultra60s
with
significantly limited CPU module compatibility. Oh, and they only
have one UPA framebuffer slot, not two like the Ultra60. Basically
a sadly lobotomized Ultra60.
Oh! Nice! That would actually make a good OpenBSD box, as far as I
know, it still isn't supporting a 2nd CPU on Sparc and UltraSparc.
Yes, they are impressively compact. The BSDs really
do fly on
those machines. I'm deploying lots of Netra X1s (400 & 500MHz
UltraSPARC-IIe) at customer sites these days as firewall/VPN
endpoint machines, running NetBSD from nifty little 1GB SSDs that
plug right into the ATA connector on the board.
That's handy.
I've run 10
at home briefly, but for the most part at work we stopped at
8, with a few systems running 9. Now we're mostly Linux & Windows. :-(
Eeeek. Time to move. ;) (though Linux certainly has grown up in
recent years...I can't really complain about it now)
2:05 p.m.
New subject: [OT]? Sun Ultra 60
BTW, is there any list I can talk about sparc hardware/software?
2:11 p.m.
New subject: [OT]? Sun Ultra 60
On 31/10/2010 21:05, Alexandre Souza - Listas wrote:
BTW, is there any list I can talk about sparc
hardware/software?
The 'Suns at Home Mailing List' - http://www.net-kitchen.com/~sah/
Julian
2:16 p.m.
New subject: [OT]? Sun Ultra 60
On 10/31/10 5:05 PM, Alexandre Souza - Listas wrote:
BTW, is there any list I can talk about sparc
hardware/software?
The SunHelp list, run by Bill Bradford, is a good one:
http://www.sunhelp.org/mailman/listinfo/sunhelp
I'm not on that list, but I've lived and breathed Sun hardware for a
long time, and I'm happy to help you if you get stuck.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire
Port Charlotte, FL
10:34 a.m.
New subject: [OT]? Sun Ultra 60
Sun HW and a couple SGI O2's are the only real
exceptions to my rule about
not collecting UNIX HW. I used the Suns a lot as general purpose
workstations and servers at home. Either running Solaris, or OpenBSD.
My impossible dream is to get a SGI machine. Any of them. There is an
Ozone (or something like) in a surplus seller I know, but he asks just too
much money for it. Someday I'll get one :oD It is a pride and joy for me to
have a SGI machine on my desk :oD
1:49 p.m.
New subject: [OT]? Sun Ultra 60
At 3:34 PM -0200 10/31/10, Alexandre Souza - Listas wrote:
My impossible dream is to get a SGI machine. Any of
them. There
is an Ozone (or something like) in a surplus seller I know, but he
asks just too much money for it. Someday I'll get one :oD It is a
pride and joy for me to have a SGI machine on my desk :oD
While my one is the slowest O2 they made, the other is a really nice
one. I lucked out and got an R12k/270 for a fraction of what they
were going for. I'd *REALLY* like a nice Octane 2, but I can't
justify the cost, even with how much they've dropped.
You might look into the Indigo 2's. Also, if you know you're going
to get one at some point, keep an eye out for the OS CD's, they are
hard to get.
Zane
--
| Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator |
| healyzh at aracnet.com | OpenVMS Enthusiast |
| | Photographer |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
| My flickr Photostream |
| http://www.flickr.com/photos/33848088 at N03/ |
2:19 p.m.
New subject: [OT]? Sun Ultra 60
On 10/31/10 10:34 AM, "Alexandre Souza - Listas" <pu1bzz.listas at
gmail.com>
wrote:
I have a SGI, but currently no keyboard or monitor for it (or adapter) and
it needs drive sleds so I can put drives in it. It is shaped like a slightly
melted tower case. And I think it is purple (haven't seen it in > 6 months)
the previous owner had put cardboard into the drive bays and put the drives
on that, IIRC the drives suffered heat death.
Sun HW and a
couple SGI O2's are the only real exceptions to my rule about
not collecting UNIX HW. I used the Suns a lot as general purpose
workstations and servers at home. Either running Solaris, or OpenBSD.
My impossible dream is to get a SGI machine. Any of them. There is an
Ozone (or something like) in a surplus seller I know, but he asks just too
much money for it. Someday I'll get one :oD It is a pride and joy for me to
have a SGI machine on my desk :oD
10:32 a.m.
New subject: [OT]? Sun Ultra 60
Hmmm, is an
Ultra 60 offtopic? :o)
WAY off-topic. now what to do
with that?
Just about anything you can think of, except lots of floating point
math. I could use a
keyboard and mouse from Sun, since I have none :(
Problem solved; I'll put a
set in the box I'm packing up for you.
8:14 a.m.
On Sat, Oct 30, 2010 at 8:19 PM, alan canning <scanning.cc at gmail.com> wrote:
Many thanks to all who responded ( and so quickly )
and thanks for the
heads-up on the programmimng problems with the alternate parts. Also thanks
for the website of the guy who can program these parts. My programmer only
does modern parts; EPROMs and EEPROMs.
What part did you get exactly? Or maybe you won't know for sure until
they arrive?
If you can't program them yourself there are probably a few people on
the list that would be willing to program them for you if you covered
the postage. I have a BP Microsystems BP-1400 and can program most
DIP and PLCC parts, except really old 1702 / 2708 parts. I can
program Philips / Signetics 82S23 and Nat Semi DM74S188 parts. I'm in
the Seattle area.
-Glen
4949
days inactive
4950
days old
32 comments
12 participants
participants (12)
-
ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk -
bfranchuk＠jetnet.ab.ca -
cclist＠sydex.com -
eric＠brouhaha.com -
geoffr＠zipcon.net -
glen.slick＠gmail.com -
healyzh＠aracnet.com -
julian＠jnt.me.uk -
mcguire＠neurotica.com -
pu1bzz.listas＠gmail.com -
scanning.cc＠gmail.com -
snhirsch＠gmail.com