11 Apr
2021
11 Apr
'21
10:45 a.m.
On 4/9/21 3:23 PM, Nemo Nusquam wrote:
On 2021-04-08 00:32, Ben Huntsman via cctalk wrote:
[..]
I used xlc in the early 90's at IBM in the Raleigh networking lab, along
with the excellent xcdb debugger - Austin's debug libs weren't a part of
our repertoire. There was plenty going on that was deeper and closer to
the iron in Austin, so it could be just about anything.
AIX 3.2.5 was so much leaner and meaner than 4.x that came along next...
I never did warm up to it the same way.
- David
I know this is a strange place to ask, but
it's as good a place as any.
Anyone on here used IBM's XLC in very old versions?
Anyone know what the argument -qdebug=austlib does?
I have the docs for IBM C Set++ 3.1 for AIX (1993) and it is not there.?
As you probably know, the Austin lab was known for HPC s/w so they may
have shipped special debug versions. 
12 Apr
12 Apr
12:54 a.m.
On Sun, 11 Apr 2021 at 19:46, David Schmidt via cctech
<cctech at classiccmp.org> wrote:
AIX 3.2.5 was so much leaner and meaner than 4.x that came along next...
I never did warm up to it the same way.
Twas ever thus, no?
I remember an ad campaign for AIX when it was quite new... "We took
UNIX and added millions of lines of code to it." (Or words to that
effect.) To me and to a lot of other people, this did not sound like a
good thing...
--
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13 Apr
13 Apr
9:44 a.m.
On Mon, Apr 12, 2021 at 8:14 AM Liam Proven via cctech <
cctech at classiccmp.org> wrote:
On Sun, 11 Apr 2021 at 19:46, David Schmidt via
cctech
<cctech at classiccmp.org> wrote:
Linux tends to churn that amount of code in a release. I find it
interesting how large systemd has become as well:
https://www.theregister.com/2020/01/06/linux_2020_kernel_systemd_code/
The rate of change to Linux literally keeps me up at night during
incidents.. but attempting to tame this for an enterprise also pays the
bills.. I find it peculiar so many people are ok with this model of
computing but the jobs are good for the time being.
AIX 3.2.5 was so much leaner and meaner than 4.x that came along next...
I never did warm up to it the same way.
Twas ever thus, no?
I remember an ad campaign for AIX when it was quite new... "We took
UNIX and added millions of lines of code to it." (Or words to that
effect.) To me and to a lot of other people, this did not sound like a
good thing...
--
Liam Proven ? Profile: https://about.me/liamproven
Email: lproven at cix.co.uk ? gMail/gTalk/gHangouts: lproven at gmail.com
Twitter/Facebook/LinkedIn/Flickr: lproven ? Skype: liamproven
UK: +44 7939-087884 ? ?R (+ WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal): +420 702 829 053
14 Apr
14 Apr
8:39 a.m.
On Tue, 13 Apr 2021 at 18:44, Kevin Bowling <kevin.bowling at kev009.com> wrote:
Linux tends to churn that amount of code in a release. I find it interesting how large
systemd has become as well:
https://www.theregister.com/2020/01/06/linux_2020_kernel_systemd_code/
I didn't know but I can well believe it. Virtually _any_ 30-40+ year
old code is, by modern standards, lightweight and fast.
Compared to, say, C++, Ada is a lightweight, clean language. Compared
to modern *nix, Multics itself is a sylph-like slip of a thing.
One of my personal favourites... there is a lot of word-processor
advocacy online now and the one most people praise as The Best Thing
EVAH is WordPerfect.
I used and supported WordPerfect in the late '80s & early '90s. I
never liked it that much. Fast, feature-rich, yes, but a UI one could
only love because of Stockholm Syndrome.
But I remember 5.x introducing pull-down CUA-type menus and being for
me significantly easier to use as a result. And I remember v 6,
lambasted as sluggish bloatware at the time, having a graphics-mode
GUI on DOS if you wanted.
So I found a copy and installed it on PC DOS 7.1 on a Core 2 Duo
Thinkpad. On a modern multi-gigahertz x86, it _flies_ along. It's
snappy and responsive even in graphics mode, and by modern standards
it's tiny. A dozen meg or so.
I don't use it much but it's fun to do so occasionally.
My main go-to WP on my primary laptop is MS Word 97 for Windows, under
WINE on 64-bit Ubuntu. Again, sluggish bloatware when new, but ?
century later, lightweight and positively snappy. Does everything I
need and more, including the all-important Outline mode. Has proper
menus, not a Ribbon. Runs perfectly under WINE including being able to
install service releases to get it as current as possible. Same file
format as used up to 2003.
There are 2 features I know are missing compared to later versions.
Seriously, just 2. It has no highlighter (fake yellow marker pen you
can drag over text). Who cares? And you can't embed a table inside a
cell of another table.
That is the complete list of missing features that I know about for
the next 3 releases, then the Ribbon came in and I lost all interest.
On my Mac I use Word 2011, which is also now obsolete and out of
support. Works fine, though, and on macOS, you still have a menu bar
and can turn off the Ribbon completely.
The rate of change to Linux literally keeps me up at
night during incidents.. but attempting to tame this for an enterprise also pays the
bills.. I find it peculiar so many people are ok with this model of computing but the jobs
are good for the time being.
Agreed. I'm in the same boat: documenting an enterprise Linux distro.
--
Liam Proven ? Profile: https://about.me/liamproven
Email: lproven at cix.co.uk ? gMail/gTalk/gHangouts: lproven at gmail.com
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15 Apr
15 Apr
7 a.m.
ons 2021-04-14 klockan 17:39 +0200 skrev Liam Proven via cctalk:
On Tue, 13 Apr 2021 at 18:44, Kevin Bowling
<kevin.bowling at kev009.com> wrote:
Ha, on my debian system i get more memory available when instead of
gnome i instead run e.
And when i i got some problem with printing from evolution ....
webkitgtk in its sandbox version cant print so now i run
webkitgtk inside the normal evolution process.... more memory saved
but i'm living a bit more unsafe now....
Linux tends to churn that amount of code in a release.? I find it
interesting how large systemd has become as well:?
https://www.theregister.com/2020/01/06/linux_2020_kernel_systemd_code/
I didn't know but I can well believe it. Virtually _any_ 30-40+ year
old code is, by modern standards, lightweight and fast.
Compared to, say, C++, Ada is a lightweight, clean language. Compared
to modern *nix, Multics itself is a sylph-like slip of a thing.
One of my personal favourites... there is a lot of
word-processor
advocacy online now and the one most people praise as The Best Thing
EVAH is WordPerfect.
I used and supported WordPerfect in the late '80s & early '90s. I
never liked it that much. Fast, feature-rich, yes, but a UI one could
only love because of Stockholm Syndrome.
FRAME from that era was nice and fast.
But I remember 5.x introducing pull-down CUA-type
menus and being for
me significantly easier to use as a result. And I remember v 6,
lambasted as sluggish bloatware at the time, having a graphics-mode
GUI on DOS if you wanted.
So I found a copy and installed it on PC DOS 7.1 on a Core 2 Duo
Thinkpad. On a modern multi-gigahertz x86, it _flies_ along. It's
snappy and responsive even in graphics mode, and by modern standards
it's tiny. A dozen meg or so.
I don't use it much but it's fun to do so occasionally.
My main go-to WP on my primary laptop is MS Word 97 for Windows,
under
WINE on 64-bit Ubuntu. Again, sluggish bloatware when new, but ?
century later, lightweight and positively snappy. Does everything I
need and more, including the all-important Outline mode. Has proper
menus, not a Ribbon. Runs perfectly under WINE including being able
to
install service releases to get it as current as possible. Same file
format as used up to 2003.
I had to try to use word 20xx a few years ago .... compared with word
6 (current 1991 on mac) HILFEEEEEE
Nowadays I hate being forced to mouse along ... while having a
strained right wrist.
9:42 a.m.
On Thu, 15 Apr 2021 at 16:00, Stefan Skoglund <stefan.skoglund at agj.net> wrote:
Ha, on my debian system i get more memory available when instead of
gnome i instead run e.
E as in Enlightenment? I can believe that. I quite liked Bodhi Linux
for its take on E, but E is not as configurable as I'd like.
E.g. I like a vertical taskbar, like this:
https://imgur.com/gallery/fLeAy
I'd also like to try that combined with vertical title bars, like wm2:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3b/Wm2.png
And when i i got some problem with printing from
evolution ....
webkitgtk in its sandbox version cant print so now i run
webkitgtk inside the normal evolution process.... more memory saved
but i'm living a bit more unsafe now....
O_o
FRAME from that era was nice and fast.
As in FrameMaker? I barely know it. Back in the '80s I was a total
Aldus PageMaker fanboy. :-) IMHO one of the greatest GUI apps ever
written.
I had to try to use word 20xx a few years ago ....
compared with word
6 (current 1991 on mac) HILFEEEEEE
Word 5.1a was the classic version of Word for Classic.
It's included in the WordPerfect for Mac VM that you can download here:
http://www.columbia.edu/~em36/wpdos/macintosh.html
Nowadays I hate being forced to mouse along ... while
having a
strained right wrist.
If you want a lightweight but rich DOS wordprocessor that's freeware
now, MS Word 5.5 is a free download from MS.
https://www.vcfed.org/forum/forum/genres/pcs-and-clones/15399-ms-word-5-5-f…
--
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9:57 a.m.
On 4/15/21 9:42 AM, Liam Proven via cctalk wrote:
On Thu, 15 Apr 2021 at 16:00, Stefan Skoglund
<stefan.skoglund at agj.net> wrote:
I've used FrameMaker a lot...it's great for handling large documents and
collections of documents.? Used it quite a bit at IBM and handled 1000+
page documents (of course that wasn't all one "source" file).
I could never get my head around Word for anything more than 10 pages or
so.? Just too hard to deal with everything in massive documents.
Now I almost exclusively use LaTeX.? I've found that being able to use
my own text editor to actually write the content means I don't have to
switch between different notions on how moving around and edit should
work.? Using a mark-up language also means I generally have more control
on how things appear in the document (something that continually
frustrated me with Word especially when dealing with cross references
and figures).
--
TTFN - Guy
FRAME from that era was nice and fast.
As
in FrameMaker? I barely know it. Back in the '80s I was a total
Aldus PageMaker fanboy. :-) IMHO one of the greatest GUI apps ever
written.
10:28 a.m.
On Thu, 15 Apr 2021 at 18:57, Guy Sotomayor via cctalk
<cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
I've used FrameMaker a lot...it's great for
handling large documents and
collections of documents. Used it quite a bit at IBM and handled 1000+
page documents (of course that wasn't all one "source" file).
ISTM that for DTP, there were 2 competing layout metaphors. One was
ideal for single-handed, ad-hoc layouts, and was friendly for
unskilled or untrained operators. The other was better for longer
documents, for structured docs where everything should look uniform --
long runs of documentation, or long series of magazine issues.
The former, the "pasteboard" model, includes PageMaker, MS Publisher,
Serif Page+ et al. The other, based on "frames" and "pouring" content
into them, includes Ventura Publisher, FrameMaker, Quark Xpress, and I
believe Adobe InDesign although I've never seen or tried it, although
I've supported all the otghers.
I could never get my head around Word for anything
more than 10 pages or
so. Just too hard to deal with everything in massive documents.
Outline mode is the key. I did a 220-page illustrated manual in one
big document in my last solo tech-writing contract, entirely as a Word
outline. From blank page to finished manual in 8 weeks, and 2nd
edition in 6 more weeks.
Without Outline mode, it would have been next to impossible and would
have required elaborate professional tooling that they didn't have.
Using a mark-up language also means I generally have
more control
on how things appear in the document (something that continually
frustrated me with Word especially when dealing with cross references
and figures).
Fair. Never used LaTeX but in the dayjob I use DocBook XML and
AsciiDoctor to the same ends. I don't like them much but they do the
job and do it well. It makes all the layout and formatting Somebody
Else's Problem -- and even that SEP is 99.9% automated.
--
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Email: lproven at cix.co.uk ? gMail/gTalk/gHangouts: lproven at gmail.com
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UK: +44 7939-087884 ? ?R (+ WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal): +420 702 829 053
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7 comments
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participants (5)
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david4602＠gmail.com -
ggs＠shiresoft.com -
kevin.bowling＠kev009.com -
lproven＠gmail.com -
stefan.skoglund＠agj.net