Am 20 Aug 2004 7:52 meinte Gene Buckle: Personaly I suggests the swiss army knife with the extended toolste. beats every leatherman, has exchangeable bits and fits still in (my) pocket :) http://www.victorinox.de/newsite/de/produkte/produktdetails//1-7725-T/funkt… (tons of Java and whatever included :( ) Gruss H. -- VCF Europa 6.0 am 30.April und 01.Mai 2005 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/

Am 20 Aug 2004 10:04 meinte Patrick Finnegan: Well, it has a pair of pliers ... and for cable ties, or even _thin_ wire (aka resistors etc) are the scissors strong enuf. Gruss H. -- VCF Europa 6.0 am 30.April und 01.Mai 2005 in Muenchen http://www.vcfe.org/

On Fri, 20 Aug 2004, Hans Franke wrote: It's nice, but I want a 1/4" bit driver, not their little one. The U.S. import models do not include the extras shown at the bottom of that picture - is that "extender" a size adapter? Accordingly, I have the swiss army knife "cybertool" in a double sheath along with the vise-grip 5Wr multitool (that DOES have a 1/4" bit holder) http://www.47d.net/~seven/vg/v-multitool.html

Gene> That reminds me - where can I find such a tool? I've got a Gene> pair of dead Macs I'd like to open up and try to repair. I know Jensen Tools has a "MAC case screwdriver", and I expect other companies in that business -- Contact East for example -- would do likewise. paul

On Aug 20, 2004, at 8:25 AM, Gene Buckle wrote: I have seen some made from door hinges. Long handles are connected to the faces of the hinges so that when the handles are squeezed the tips of hinges open.

On Fri, 20 Aug 2004, Ron Hudson wrote: What kind of crap attitude is that? -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ]

Ron Hudson <ron.hudson(a)sbcglobal.net> wrote: You'd be doing this with the power cord removed. Mind the CRT of course, it could be holding a charge. You'd be breaking other things on the way to the SIMM holders. Realistically, you should be more worried about marring the case. I might sit the SE on its face and try to "crack" the case on the bottom where the faceplate meets the rear cover. Starting from that position, you might even be able to lift or wiggle the rear cover off once you've removed the screws. The rear cover is a cover, the frame is attached to the faceplate, and everything else is attached to the frame which makes the frame-and-faceplate the heavier bit. Once upon a time I saw a tool that was a sort of L-shaped rod with a Torx bit at the end of the long portion, and a sort of disk, maybe 2 inches in diameter, mounted at the end of the short portion with a bit of printed-circuit-board material sticking out along a line drawn through the center of its face. You would use the Torx to remove the case screws, then insert the printed-circuit-board material into the seam between faceplate and rear cover so the face of the disk was up against the seam, and twist to crack the case at the seam. -Frank McConnell

On Aug 20, 2004, at 12:24 PM, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: 1 - I am not working - I can't afford to replace whatever I may break 2 - It's working well with it's 2mb of memory under OS 6, I don't really *Need* OS 7. Perhaps if it were not for these, I would chance it. I know All in One macs are pretty cheap (except I live in Tulare CA, A long ways from anywhere) Yes please - or perhaps a powerbook - tradya Yes I already know to unplug it and let it sit unplugged overnight or for a few hours at least. The CRT is a big capacitor and if it is not properly drianed it can throw you across the room. (well at least TV crts can.) like I said - easy for you to say

On Aug 20, 2004, at 4:03 PM, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: Yeah, I want to come to VCF, but I can't promise anything. Bring along a spare with the full 4mb.. :^) Actually, - for you Sellam - I'll trade this **clean 2mb/20mb MAC SE FDHD** for a Classic with at least 4mb of memory :^) (I want that boot from OS ? in ROM thing) (What OS is in a Classic ROM anyway?) Anyway I am living in a very small 2br apartment so I am not collecting anymore (I had to give up Much of what I had collected to move back to CA from MO)

Vintage Computer Festival wrote: That's bullshit. I have an IBM 9-track tabletop that isn't getting powered up till I get docs. Period. I don't feel like taking a chance with it, because it's a damn nice drive. Is that defeatist or lazy? Hardly. I've got several other working 9-tracks, I can't replace the IBM if I hose it, I can't repair it without the docs, and I can afford to leave that one sitting till I get the info I want. Looks to me like Ron's in the same shape. The SE *works*, as-is. If he wants to leave it in a working state till he can learn more about it, who are you to call him derogatory names? Doc

On Aug 20, 2004, at 4:01 PM, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: Sorry Doc, it's a very fine line, but he only called my post derogatory names, "lazy and defeatist". Even so, I think He was a little out of line - there are dangerous voltages, and messing around inside there I could well render my Mac non-operable. All that aside, just because I frequent the group does not mean that I am a whiz with a soldering iron. Where I am living now I don't even have a workbench.

On Aug 20, 2004, at 7:55 PM, John Allain wrote: Well actually the post was originally about what good web sites are there for downloading appropriate software for Mac SE running OS 6.

At 11:14 PM 8/21/2004, Doc wrote: <snip> Doc, you're not alone in either category above. However, I temper my judgement and suffer the self-important prick because, I figure he just wants to be the bad-boy on the list, using vulgar language and smoking in the lavatory and all. I'll take a jab every once in awhile, as you do, in hopes he'll come around, and to let others know he's not representative of the whole list. Ed Kelleher

Anybody on the list follow the British Parliament? I assume that when the audience says "Hear, hear!" thay are reacting to what may be said to be a "called for comment". Are there things they can say in regards to an "Un-called for comment" or do they have to wait for the opposition to speak up and then give the "Hear, hear's" for him? John A.

On Sun, 22 Aug 2004, Ed Kelleher wrote: Were you bending over when the crew was singing that, Ed? -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ]

On Aug 22, 2004, at 9:29 AM, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: While *I* did not take the attack as personal, Doc, I did think it was somewhat out of line, Sellam Sellam, Who are you to kick anyone in the ass? It is a matter of interpretation but the one who gets to interpret is the receiver of the comment. Anyway, Sellam has extended an olive branch to me off list. So between Sellam and I, things are cool... for now :^)

On Aug 22, 2004, at 11:37 AM, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: s'ok. but look above, not an attack.. just out of line. Anyway we have already worked this out between us.

On Sun, 22 Aug 2004, der Mouse wrote: You're the absolute LAST person to be suggesting that someone else consider their style of communication. -- Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org [ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ] [ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ]

Let's all just try to be kind ok? sometimes an effort must be made to temper a really direct answer. Yea... I know it is hard... there are times I have 3 volunteers shoving things in my face wondering what to do with them, 5 telemarketing calls came in a row.... spilled my coffee on my new shirt.... you notice a seller on eBay seems to be using a shill.... all the crap you have piled on top of the HP scanner fax printer thing falls off when you have it piled too high and are trying to raise it up to put a print cartridge in it ( why should it fall it was only stacked 2 feet high)..... the server goes down..... it is hard sometimes not to be abrupt when we are trying to do so many things at once, and some of us ( myself included) tend towards short abrupt answers.....but.... even though you may have been through this in a mornings time... it is good to think , pause, collect your thoughts, then answer the next question.... remember also, we are all here because we are looking to learn, wanting to associate with others with similar interests, or are just curious... Thanks Ed Sharpe archivist for SMECC Please check our web site at http://www.smecc.org to see other engineering fields, communications and computation stuff we buy, and by all means when in Arizona drop in and see us. address: coury house / smecc 5802 w palmaire ave glendale az 85301 ----- Original Message ----- From: "David V. Corbin" &lt;dvcorbin(a)optonline.net&gt; To: "'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts'" &lt;cctalk(a)classiccmp.org&gt; Sent: Sunday, August 22, 2004 6:13 PM Subject: RE: What fun from a Macintosh SE

It's one thing to be senibly cautious -- to read the manuals before taking something apart (although to be honest, I've never had a problem just pulling the case). To check PSUs on dummy load before powering the machine up (this one is a lot more important IMHO -- a defective PSU (and I've had them) could wipe out every chip in the machine. To use scratch media before mounting the only copy of the distribution disk. And so on. It's quite another to be afraid to _ever_ pull the case, power the machine up, mount the distribution disk, etc. You'll never do anything unless you have a go. I was once told 'The designer who never blew a chip is a bad designer. He never designed anything'. It's a view I totally agree with. You _will_ make mistages. The thing is to be careful with irreplacable (to you) stuff, not to never do anything. -tony

Yes, but one should get one's experience on less precious machines first. Now, it may be that this person doesn't _have_ any "less precious machines" to gain experience with. That sucks, yeah, but it's no reason for tearing a strip up one side and down the other for not risking damage to a precious machine anyway. If I had only one computer, no experience, and no way to afford to replace/repair it if I damaged it, I wouldn't be opening its case either. /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse(a)rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B

Yes, but it's very rare for an electronic failure to do cosmetic damage to the machine. So even if you do wipe out some irreplacable part during testing, you _still_ have the machine as a 'non-functioning display piece'. This is not a reason for being careless, but you really have very little to lose by carefully trying to get things going. -tony

At 03:50 PM 8/20/2004, you wrote: Excellent example of proper use of the word bullshit. Ok, Were the terms that caught my eye, at least. Ed

On Fri, 20 Aug 2004 07:36:58 -0700 Ron Hudson &lt;ron.hudson(a)sbcglobal.net&gt; wrote: Another thing to watch out about with the classic Mac systems is that the CRT's nipple-seal on some models is a glass tube that runs out through the middle of the connector end on the neck of the tube. Apple kindly put a flat circuit board with the connector in the middle that mounts on the neck. If you push on one side of said board enough (even nudging it wrong while working with cables inside the system will do), the leverage will snap off the glass nipple, which evacuates the vaccum the tube expires. I know this from personal experience, having done so on a Mac Plus, back when a Mac Plus was a machine of some considerable worth (don't raise your hackles, it's still a nice machine in some regards, just not one with mainstream market value any longer). I ended up having to seek out a dead machine to swap the CRT with. My current personal gripe: I go to the IUPUI auctions in Indianapolis these days, and the dolts who run the auction have developed a habit of shrinkwrapping all the older Macs onto a pallet and not allowing them to be bid on as individual machines! Last time, there were two nice SE/30 machines, which I would have gotten for the miniumum $5 bid, but they were embedded in a skid of uninteresting (late model) dumb terminals. The auction management almost guarantees that those Macs will only go to a scrapper. They're doing the same crap with the Sun machines now. (did get one SparcStation 20 which was off on the side for $5 though) It pisses off anybody not enamored with late-model PC clones (which bid individually, of course.)

Vintage Computer Festival wrote: Additionally this develops a relationship with the scrapper who might be inclined to let you have the one or two interesting items on his pallets -- HansP