19 Feb
2013
19 Feb
'13
5:52 p.m.
anyone ever use a USB/Serial cable to connect to an Altair? I am trying
to connect my 680b to my windows 7 computer via hyper-terminal to no
avail. Any special settings I should be aware for terminal settings
(currently using 9600, 8 data bits, 1 stop bits, NONE for parity and
flow control).
Also, anyone know where I can get the ROM files for a 680b?
20 Feb
20 Feb
4:17 a.m.
Am 19.02.2013 23:52, schrieb Nick Allen:
anyone ever use a USB/Serial cable to connect to an
Altair? I am
trying to connect my 680b to my windows 7 computer via hyper-terminal
to no avail. Any special settings I should be aware for terminal
settings (currently using 9600, 8 data bits, 1 stop bits, NONE for
parity and flow control).
Also, anyone know where I can get the ROM files for a 680b?
What you have to set
the terminal to depends on the jumper settings on
the board. It also depends on the monitor itself - there is an ACIA
version which can work with 9600 8n1, but there is also a Baudot TTY
version.
There is a listing of the monitor and VTL-2 at
http://www.altair680kit.com/manuals/Altair_680-System_Monitor_Manual-03-Bet…
(toplevel page http://www.altair680kit.com/manuals.html).
Since the monitor is only 512bytes, it is IMHO not too tedious to key in
the hex codes. The problem is the availability of 1702 PROMs and a
suitable programmer nowadays.
--
Holger
9:04 a.m.
On 02/20/2013 04:17 AM, Holger Veit wrote:
There is no baudot TTY option its a 20ma serial loop option commonly
used for the asr33.
Am 19.02.2013 23:52, schrieb Nick Allen:
> anyone ever use a USB/Serial cable to connect to an Altair? I am
> trying to connect my 680b to my windows 7 computer via hyper-terminal
> to no avail. Any special settings I should be aware for terminal
> settings (currently using 9600, 8 data bits, 1 stop bits, NONE for
> parity and flow control).
>
The 680 as far as I know does not autobaud so you need to know what the
console serial
card is set for and match that, likely much slower than 9600!
IS this running rom based monitor (turnkey) or the simpler front panel
machine
that needs software monitor loaded first to make it semi responsive.
Also, anyone
know where I can get the ROM files for a 680b?
What you have to set the terminal to
depends on the jumper settings on
the board. It also depends on the monitor itself - there is an ACIA
version which can work with 9600 8n1, but there is also a Baudot TTY
version.
There is a listing of the monitor and VTL-2 at
http://www.altair680kit.com/manuals/Altair_680-System_Monitor_Manual-03-Bet…
(toplevel page http://www.altair680kit.com/manuals.html).
Since the monitor is only 512bytes, it is IMHO not too tedious to key
in the hex codes. The problem is the availability of 1702 PROMs and a
suitable programmer nowadays.
Use an easily found (and programmed) 2716 or larger device and make an
adapter for the 1702 socket.
Allison
1:27 p.m.
On Wednesday (02/20/2013 at 09:04AM -0500), Allison wrote:
There is no baudot TTY option its a 20ma serial loop option commonly
used for the asr33.
There is for sure a BAUDOT monitor prom option for the 680b.
As you can see here,
http://www.vintagecomputer.net/MITS/680/MITS_Altair_680b_Monitor_Manual.pdf
the table of contents refers you to page 31, where the BAUDOT listing
is present.
The current loop interface in the 680b was capable of operating at 60mA,
with a BAUDOT teletype such as Model 28 as long as the loop supply was
externally provided.
Chris
--
Chris Elmquist
Also,
anyone know where I can get the ROM files for a 680b?
What you have to set the
terminal to depends on the jumper
settings on the board. It also depends on the monitor itself -
there is an ACIA version which can work with 9600 8n1, but there
is also a Baudot TTY version.
2:01 p.m.
Am 20.02.2013 15:04, schrieb Allison:
Or an even better available 27128/256 etc. But this is
a controversal
proposal for some people on this list, as it deviates from the original
system. In times a VAX emulator runs on an iPhone, the 680b is simple
enough to run in almost any middle-sized FPGA, or anything in between to
the original system.
--
Holger
On 02/20/2013 04:17 AM, Holger Veit wrote:
There is no baudot TTY option its a 20ma serial loop option commonly
used for the asr33.
This was referred to in the listing as "Baudot".
You're right, this is
not 5 bit baudot/murray code. It is bit-banging tty, in contrast to an
ACIA, though.
Am 19.02.2013 23:52, schrieb Nick Allen:
> anyone ever use a USB/Serial cable to connect to an Altair? I am
> trying to connect my 680b to my windows 7 computer via
> hyper-terminal to no avail. Any special settings I should be aware
> for terminal settings (currently using 9600, 8 data bits, 1 stop
> bits, NONE for parity and flow control).
>
The 680 as far as I know does not autobaud so you need to know what
the console serial
card is set for and match that, likely much slower than 9600!
IS this running rom based monitor (turnkey) or the simpler front panel
machine
that needs software monitor loaded first to make it semi responsive.
Also,
anyone know where I can get the ROM files for a 680b?
What you have to set the
terminal to depends on the jumper settings
on the board. It also depends on the monitor itself - there is an
ACIA version which can work with 9600 8n1, but there is also a Baudot
TTY version.
There is a listing of the monitor and VTL-2 at
http://www.altair680kit.com/manuals/Altair_680-System_Monitor_Manual-03-Bet…
(toplevel page http://www.altair680kit.com/manuals.html).
Since the monitor is only 512bytes, it is IMHO not too tedious to key
in the hex codes. The problem is the availability of 1702 PROMs and a
suitable programmer nowadays.
Use an easily found (and programmed) 2716 or larger device and make an
adapter for the 1702 socket. 
10:14 p.m.
On 2013 Feb 20, at 11:01 AM, Holger Veit wrote:
Am 20.02.2013 15:04, schrieb Allison:
According to the ref'd manual there is a 'Baudot'/5-level option. To
quote, page 21:
BAUDOT TELETYPE OPTION
The Baudot version of the PROM Monitor .. to support a Baudot
Teletype ..
and convert between Baudot (5-level code) and 7-bit ASCII.
The manual goes on to talk about the 5-bit character translations and
shows a layout of a simple 5-level teletype keyboard.
You guys are forgetting that one of the most affordable terminal/
consoles for the computer hobbyist in the Altair era was a 5-bit
teletype. They were obsolete and available as surplus. 8-bit ASR-33s
and the like were still current equipment and not cheap. If you were
lucky you might manage to get your hands on a 7-or-so-year-old
surplus video terminal for cheap. A current video terminal would be
another significant expense in addition to the computer.
And just because we're discussing 5-level teletypes, if someone wants
one I can supply you with one or more. Pickup Vancouver,B.C.,Canada
region.
On 02/20/2013 04:17 AM, Holger Veit wrote:
This was referred to in the listing as
"Baudot". You're right, this
is not 5 bit baudot/murray code. It is bit-banging tty, in contrast
to an ACIA, though.
What you have to set the terminal to depends on the jumper
settings on the board. It also depends on the monitor itself -
there is an ACIA version which can work with 9600 8n1, but there
is also a Baudot TTY version.
There is no baudot TTY option its a 20ma serial loop option
commonly used for the asr33. >> There is a listing of the monitor and VTL-2 at
http://
>> www.altair680kit.com/manuals/Altair_680-System_Monitor_Manual-03-
>> Beta_1-Searchable.pdf
>> (toplevel page http://www.altair680kit.com/manuals.html).
21 Feb
21 Feb
6:10 a.m.
On 02/20/2013 10:14 PM, Brent Hilpert wrote:
On 2013 Feb 20, at 11:01 AM, Holger Veit wrote:
I'm not forgetting as I had one of the first Altairs, the 680 was
later. A baudot machine was only a small amount cheaper
and far slower, odd baud rate and code incompatable with the limited
software of the day. In all of LICA
(Long ISland Computer Association) one one person had a baudot machine
(for ham RTTY) and he was
interested in using the computer to replace it.
Baudot for micros was always an oddity.
Allison
Am 20.02.2013 15:04, schrieb Allison:
According to the ref'd manual there is a 'Baudot'/5-level option. To
quote, page 21:
BAUDOT TELETYPE OPTION
The Baudot version of the PROM Monitor .. to support a Baudot
Teletype ..
and convert between Baudot (5-level code) and 7-bit ASCII.
The manual goes on to talk about the 5-bit character translations and
shows a layout of a simple 5-level teletype keyboard.
You guys are forgetting that one of the most affordable
terminal/consoles for the computer hobbyist in the Altair era was a
5-bit teletype. They were obsolete and available as surplus. 8-bit
ASR-33s and the like were still current equipment and not cheap. If
you were lucky you might manage to get your hands on a
7-or-so-year-old surplus video terminal for cheap. A current video
terminal would be another significant expense in addition to the
computer.
On 02/20/2013 04:17 AM, Holger Veit wrote:
This was referred to in the listing as "Baudot".
You're right, this
is not 5 bit baudot/murray code. It is bit-banging tty, in contrast
to an ACIA, though.
What you have to set the terminal to depends on the jumper settings
on the board. It also depends on the monitor itself - there is an
ACIA version which can work with 9600 8n1, but there is also a
Baudot TTY version.
There is no baudot TTY option its a 20ma serial loop option commonly
used for the asr33. And just because we're discussing 5-level
teletypes, if someone wants
one I can supply you with one or more. Pickup Vancouver,B.C.,Canada
region.
>> There is a listing of the monitor and
VTL-2 at
>>
http://www.altair680kit.com/manuals/Altair_680-System_Monitor_Manual-03-Bet…
>> (toplevel page http://www.altair680kit.com/manuals.html).
1:19 p.m.
On Thu, Feb 21, 2013 at 06:10:16AM -0500, allison wrote:
Baudot for micros was always an oddity.
Totally. As if the 45.45 bps and 1.4 stop bits and FIGS/LTRS sticky shifts
aren't alien enough, the 60 mA current loop uses voltages that you normally
try to keep *away* from digital electronics (I shocked myself a bunch of
times with RTTY stuff -- never happened with model 33s).
John Wilson (KC1P -- had a 15, 19, 14TR, and 14TD)
D Bit
2:01 p.m.
On Thu, Feb 21, 2013 at 1:19 PM, John Wilson <wilson at dbit.com> wrote:
On Thu, Feb 21, 2013 at 06:10:16AM -0500, allison
wrote:
I know some guys who do WWII historical re-enactment as a Signal Corps
(and by a strange coincidence, I was the point of commonality to
someone whose father was in the unit they portray. They were all
happy to meet each other). One of the guys has an old 5-bit TTY they
now use in the field for passing messages during events. It was "fun"
getting it to work as a peripheral with modern hardware (to store then
send "messages from HQ"). ISTR the relay in the TTY won't fire under
about 80VDC.
-ethan
Baudot for micros was always an oddity.
Totally. As if the 45.45 bps and 1.4 stop bits and FIGS/LTRS sticky shifts
aren't alien enough, the 60 mA current loop uses voltages that you normally
try to keep *away* from digital electronics (I shocked myself a bunch of
times with RTTY stuff -- never happened with model 33s). 
5:49 p.m.
On 02/21/2013 11:01 AM, Ethan Dicks wrote:
I know some guys who do WWII historical re-enactment
as a Signal Corps
(and by a strange coincidence, I was the point of commonality to
someone whose father was in the unit they portray. They were all
happy to meet each other). One of the guys has an old 5-bit TTY they
now use in the field for passing messages during events. It was "fun"
getting it to work as a peripheral with modern hardware (to store then
send "messages from HQ"). ISTR the relay in the TTY won't fire under
about 80VDC.
I believe those were 60ma current loop. Back in the day, it wasn't
uncommon for amateur computer hobbyists to use one of the 5-level TTYs
as a printer. The driver software had to be aware of which half of the
character set was being printed ("letters" versus "figures") or you
got
gibberish. I seem to remember that it was also common practice for RTTY
operators to send something like "LTRS LTRS LTRS" when beginning a
message to make certain that the receiving end was in the correct mode.
--Chuck
11:53 p.m.
On Thu, Feb 21, 2013 at 02:49:15PM -0800, Chuck Guzis wrote:
I believe those were 60ma current loop.
Yes -- and it really was a loop. You'd hook all your stuff up in series
(insulated 1/4" jacks since the sleeve isn't necessarily ground) so the loop
supply could be pretty substantial. I think MJE340s were fairly standard
for solid-state switching in TUs (modems) since they could take the voltage.
Before that it was Western Electric bipolar relays (which are things of
beauty).
I seem to remember that it was also common
practice for RTTY operators to send something like "LTRS LTRS LTRS"
when beginning a message to make certain that the receiving end was
in the correct mode.
One LTRS is enough to reset the carriage, *but* the carriage-return dashpots
were pretty big and were slow to react or else might bounce (depending on
which way they were misadjusted) so people would end lines with something
like CR CR LF LTRS LTRS just to be safe (the LTRSes were just fill
characters). Luckily those keys were all near each other.
There was an option for some models called "USOS" (unshift on space) which
would ... well, unshift on space. But since you never know whether the
other guy has it, you can't count on it.
But anyway a model 15 etc. would be terrible for computer use since it's
missing most of the math characters. Too bad because the type was beautiful...
John Wilson
D Bit
22 Feb
22 Feb
2:31 p.m.
Before that it was Western Electric bipolar relays
(which are things of
beauty).
OIer here we had 'Carpenter relays' ehich are also thigns of beauty.
Settig nthem up is great 'fun', there are numerous adjustments (contact
position, whcih can set both the transit time and the bias distortion),
magentic bias, etc. there ae even service sheets for them.
I have a thing called a TDMS5 which is a test character generator. It can
gerneate arbitrary 5-bit characters with controllable distortion for
setting up receivers. This thing it valved. The serialiser circuit is a
ring coutner of triodes. The output is not surpisngly a carpenter relay.
And yes, it can be used to set up carpenter relays (dispaly transit time
,et by the spacing of dots on a CRT) One opther feature is that it can
produce a Quick Brown Fox message, again with controlable distortion. The
message is troed on a PCB disk with spring ocntacts onit. The disk is
moved on one character at time by a solenoid and ratchet mechanis,. And
the whoel thing is small enough to fit in a Carpenter relay case.
-tony
2:16 p.m.
gibberish. I seem to remember that it was also common
practice for RTTY
operators to send something like "LTRS LTRS LTRS" when beginning a
message to make certain that the receiving end was in the correct mode.
It was (or is -- I can't believe there are no old telpritner enthusiasts
left :-)). In fact a lot of amateurs sent LTRS after a CR/LF to make sure
each line started i nthe right mode, just in case a character on the
previous line had been mangeld into FIGS
As an aside. many older machines had '3 row' keyboards. That is, 3 rows
of keys. The figure shift of QW...OP is 12...90, which makes life a
little more tolerable :-). Later machines, like the Creed 444, haev a
full 4 row keyboard, but with mechncial interlocks so you can't press
keys for symbols in the wrong shift.
-tony
5:59 p.m.
On Friday (02/22/2013 at 07:16PM +0000), Tony Duell wrote:
We are still here! There is mailing list and very active community
here,
http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
and here,
http://www.baudot.net/tty-links.htm
When some of us aren't restoring DEC stuff, we're restoring Teletype
stuff.
I have a model 28 which I've recently restored and I intend to hook it
to my Altair 680b... so there! :-)
Chris
--
Chris Elmquist N0JCF
gibberish. I
seem to remember that it was also common practice for RTTY
operators to send something like "LTRS LTRS LTRS" when beginning a
message to make certain that the receiving end was in the correct mode.
It was (or is -- I can't believe there are no old telpritner enthusiasts
left :-)). In fact a lot of amateurs sent LTRS after a CR/LF to make sure
each line started i nthe right mode, just in case a character on the
previous line had been mangeld into FIGS
21 Feb
21 Feb
3:29 p.m.
Totally. As if the 45.45 bps and 1.4 stop bits and
FIGS/LTRS sticky shifts
Over here, there were 50 buad and 75 buad Murray code machines (it's not
strictly Baudot).
aren't alien enough, the 60 mA current loop uses
voltages that you normally
try to keep *away* from digital electronics (I shocked myself a bunch of
Ass opposed to digital electormechanics, I assume :-)
Actually, the selector magnet (receive solenoid, wahtever) would work at
quite low voltages. But it has signifcant inductance, not suprisingly.
Now, since the RL cirucit time constant is L/R, if oyuy increase the
supply voltage, you need a larger series resistance to keep the current
down to the right vlaue, so the time constant goes _down_, implying a
faster resposne. That';s why you had 80V or so on the selector magnet
circuit.
times with RTTY stuff -- never happened with model
33s).
Well, IIRC, the Model 33 puts mains and signals on the smae barrier
strip. And that little trip switch fo the reader solenoid on top of the
transmitter shaft is not isolated from the mains (!). Don;'t ask how I
found that out....
-tony
5:50 p.m.
On 2013 Feb 21, at 3:10 AM, allison wrote:
On 02/20/2013 10:14 PM, Brent Hilpert wrote:
The 680 was shortly after the first Altair, it was still part of that
era, when people were assembling there own systems from whatever they
could scrounge together. Odd baud rates and code incompatibilities
were exactly what the 680 monitor dealt with. From the code, the in-
memory rep was still ASCII and the baud rate was set for 45.45 bps.
A friend with an IMSAI paid good money for an ASR-33 at the time. At
the same time, my high school received two surplus 5-level machines
(for free I expect, as it wasn't something the physics teacher was
about to spend significant money on). It wasn't what I would call
"only a small amount cheaper".
The interest in 5-level machines quickly faded as their limitations
became apparent and the industry moved on quickly with built-in video
console/terminal support and such, but there was interest in using them.
The point is, the 680 monitor did have 5-level support.
On 2013 Feb 20, at 11:01 AM, Holger Veit wrote:
I'm not forgetting as I had one of the first Altairs, the 680 was
later. A baudot machine was only a small amount cheaper
and far slower, odd baud rate and code incompatable with the
limited software of the day. In all of LICA
(Long ISland Computer Association) one one person had a baudot
machine (for ham RTTY) and he was
interested in using the computer to replace it.
Baudot for micros was always an oddity. Am 20.02.2013 15:04, schrieb Allison:
According to the ref'd manual there is a 'Baudot'/5-level option.
To quote, page 21:
BAUDOT TELETYPE OPTION
The Baudot version of the PROM Monitor .. to support a Baudot
Teletype ..
and convert between Baudot (5-level code) and 7-bit ASCII.
The manual goes on to talk about the 5-bit character translations
and shows a layout of a simple 5-level teletype keyboard.
You guys are forgetting that one of the most affordable terminal/
consoles for the computer hobbyist in the Altair era was a 5-bit
teletype. They were obsolete and available as surplus. 8-bit
ASR-33s and the like were still current equipment and not cheap.
If you were lucky you might manage to get your hands on a 7-or-so-
year-old surplus video terminal for cheap. A current video
terminal would be another significant expense in addition to the
computer.
On 02/20/2013 04:17 AM, Holger Veit wrote:
>
> What you have to set the terminal to depends on the jumper
> settings on the board. It also depends on the monitor itself -
> there is an ACIA version which can work with 9600 8n1, but
> there is also a Baudot TTY version.
>
There is no baudot TTY option its a 20ma serial loop option
commonly used for the asr33.
This was referred to in the listing as
"Baudot". You're right,
this is not 5 bit baudot/murray code. It is bit-banging tty, in
contrast to an ACIA, though. 
6:50 p.m.
New subject: Hyperterm for Altair 680b (rtty) from US Army Signal Corps
On 2/21/2013 2:50 PM, Brent Hilpert wrote:
On 2013 Feb 21, at 3:10 AM, allison wrote:
> On 02/20/2013 10:14 PM, Brent Hilpert wrote:
>> On 2013 Feb 20, at 11:01 AM, Holger Veit wrote:
>>> Am 20.02.2013 15:04, schrieb Allison:
>>>> On 02/20/2013 04:17 AM, Holger Veit wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> What you have to set the terminal to depends on the jumper
>>>>> settings on the board. It also depends on the monitor itself -
>>>>> there is an ACIA version which can work with 9600 8n1, but there
>>>>> is also a Baudot TTY version.
>>>>>
>>>> There is no baudot TTY option its a 20ma serial loop option
>>>> commonly used for the asr33.
>>> This was referred to in the listing as "Baudot". You're right,
this
>>> is not 5 bit baudot/murray code. It is bit-banging tty, in contrast
>>> to an ACIA, though.
>>
>> According to the ref'd manual there is a 'Baudot'/5-level option. To
>> quote, page 21:
>>
>> BAUDOT TELETYPE OPTION
I have a tape I have deciphered which
my Uncle Bill put in a letter to
home during his service. I will point you all at my public folder on
dropbox
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/tcx3brnb8oqpvjz/KVNw58LSbN
in rtty-tape folder. I had my cousin (his daughter) scan it in sections
(was the best I could do). I took those scans and converted it to 5
level information and then hunted for codes that made the most sense.
Jim
9:01 p.m.
New subject: sidetracking to space rockets.. / Re: Hyperterm for Altair 680b (rtty) from US Army Signal Corps
On 2013 Feb 21, at 3:50 PM, Jim Stephens wrote:
On 2/21/2013 2:50 PM, Brent Hilpert wrote:
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/tcx3brnb8oqpvjz/lnCvNC0Ffl/2013-0121-
lut-dismantle
I have to ask.. is that the Saturn-V/Apollo transporter/gantry being
dismantled?
I see 1983 on a calendar in one photo.
>> BAUDOT TELETYPE OPTION
I have a tape I have deciphered which my Uncle Bill put in a letter
to home during his service. I will point you all at my public
folder on dropbox
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/tcx3brnb8oqpvjz/KVNw58LSbN
in rtty-tape folder. I had my cousin (his daughter) scan it in
sections (was the best I could do). I took those scans and
converted it to 5 level information and then hunted for codes that
made the most sense.
9:41 p.m.
New subject: sidetracking to space rockets.. / Re: Hyperterm for Altair 680b (rtty) from US Army Signal Corps
On 2/21/2013 6:01 PM, Brent Hilpert wrote:
On 2013 Feb 21, at 3:50 PM, Jim Stephens wrote:
Before I could get a yahoogroup archiver
working I wanted to save a set
of photos uploaded to the LUT_group on yahoo groups. A member knew the
president or vp of the construction company who dismantled the last
Launch Umbilical Tower used for the Apollo launches. There was an
attempt to have it preserved in its entirety, all 600 tons, and the
original group tried its best. The white room and some portions were
incorporated into the Saturn exhibit @ KSC.
No crawler has been dismantled. Both were upgraded by the Shuttle
program, and I doubt they are going to be dismantled. Nasa still has
plans which will require them if they can ever get back on track.
The group is now devoted to a very serious group of modelers who have a
lot of the actual plans for the LUT digitized and in photo albums on the
groups photo section.
Because of the nature of Yahoo now days, I wanted to archive that and
another historical group, the PBY group which is composed of WW2
veterans who flew Consolidated PBY seaplanes, and still deal with them.
join
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/LUT_Group/
for these and way more info.
thanks
Jim
On 2/21/2013 2:50 PM, Brent Hilpert wrote:
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/tcx3brnb8oqpvjz/lnCvNC0Ffl/2013-0121-lut-dismant…
I have to ask.. is that the Saturn-V/Apollo transporter/gantry being
dismantled?
I see 1983 on a calendar in one photo >> BAUDOT TELETYPE OPTION
I have a tape I have deciphered which my Uncle Bill put in a letter
to home during his service. I will point you all at my public folder
on dropbox
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/tcx3brnb8oqpvjz/KVNw58LSbN
in rtty-tape folder. I had my cousin (his daughter) scan it in
sections (was the best I could do). I took those scans and converted
it to 5 level information and then hunted for codes that made the
most sense. 
20 Feb
20 Feb
7:47 a.m.
Nick Allen wrote:
anyone ever use a USB/Serial cable to connect to an Altair? I am trying
to connect my 680b to my windows 7 computer via hyper-terminal to no
avail. Any special settings I should be aware for terminal settings
(currently using 9600, 8 data bits, 1 stop bits, NONE for parity and
flow control).
Also, anyone know where I can get the ROM files for a 680b?
Have you examined the 680 schematics (available on the web)?
A 680 can be configured in a number of ways, including various
baud rates, signaling schemes (rs-232 is just one of three
choices) and the firmware may be ASCII or Baudot. You need to
do much more investigation than "just plug it in".
Bill S.
4143
days inactive
4146
days old
19 comments
11 participants
participants (11)
-
ajp166＠verizon.net -
ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk -
cclist＠sydex.com -
chrise＠pobox.com -
ethan.dicks＠gmail.com -
hilpert＠cs.ubc.ca -
holger.veit＠iais.fraunhofer.de -
jws＠jwsss.com -
nick.allen＠comcast.net -
wh.sudbrink＠verizon.net -
wilson＠dbit.com