19 Sep
2000
19 Sep
'00
10:37 a.m.
19 Sep
19 Sep
2:48 p.m.
The tone of that article really annoys me. The idea seems to be to blur
the distinction between sharing your own work (obviously laudable) and
sharing someone else's work without their permission (obviously unethical,
and folks generally knew that even in 1975). It also tries to oversimplify
all the complex debates that are going on right now into a simple black
and white question of whether or not there should be copyrights.
Tim Mann tim.mann(a)compaq.com http://www.tim-mann.org
Compaq Computer Corporation, Systems Research Center, Palo Alto, CA
4:22 p.m.
On Tue, 19 Sep 2000 tim.mann(a)compaq.com wrote:
The tone of that article really annoys me. The idea
seems to be to blur
the distinction between sharing your own work (obviously laudable) and
sharing someone else's work without their permission (obviously unethical,
and folks generally knew that even in 1975). It also tries to oversimplify
Wasn't there also an issue about Bill Gates & Friends having acquired
that code they based it on unethically as well? I seem to recall
having read something about that numerous places over a decade ago, or
has that little bit of history been rewritten?
all the complex debates that are going on right now
into a simple black
and white question of whether or not there should be copyrights.
It sounds like communism is creeping onward - when the right to
intellectual property is questioned, something's very wrong. Is this
not sending the signal that it's ok to be "rewarded" for being an
hourly "worker" and get paid for routine or physical work - for
example, but it's wrong to be rewarded for thinking. After all, is
not thinking, and questioning, bad for big government, certain big
businesses, and whatever else reeks of totalitarianism, etc.? Do away
with copyrights, stick anyone who's a little rebellious on Ritalin and
puppy downers (those who watched the old, original, Saturday Night
Live TV show in the 80's will understand this), and classify those who
disagree with the government as mentally ill and lock them away, like
they did (do?) in Soviet Russia, and divvy up everyone's property,
intellectual or physical and make it available to all. Ok, did I spoil
the surprise for anyone about what's in store for the citizens of the
U.S. if Al Gore is successfully maneuvered into office by the mass
media and pharmaceutical manufacturers, etc.?
--
R. D. Davis "The best way to gain a true understanding of
rdd(a)perqlogic.com Wile E. Coyote on the Roadrunner cartoons is to
http://www.perqlogic.com/rdd fly, head-first, off a horse into something like
410-744-4900 a fence or a tree; trust me, this works." --RDD
5:22 p.m.
"R. D. Davis" wrote:
It sounds like communism is creeping onward - when the
right to
intellectual property is questioned, something's very wrong. Is this
Not to get into a flame war (and isn't this list supposed to be for old
computers?), but I don't think that we're creeping toward communism
(even though I'm in Canada, I did live in the US for two years, and have
learned something of the "American mentality" -- no insult intended).
To be honest, I think what the eventual outcome *should* be is this:
Those who wish to patent/copyright their intellectual property may.
However, that should be limited to specific processes that are
proprietary to their idea. Copyrighting "file transfers" is too much.
Copyrighting "file transfers using Tim's File Transfer Protocol[tm]" is
okay. However, if you copyright "file transfers", then you're being
anti-competitive, as Bill can't create his "Bill's File Transfer
Protocol[tm]" without being sued out of existence. That's not fair or
right.
I think that in this stage of the technological game, open sourcing is a
good neighbour type of thing. You don't have to do it, and lots of
places don't (do you see Cisco open sourcing IOS?). And there's no harm
in not opening your software. Others make good routing software (well,
bad example, I suppose). Cisco isn't going after Nortel, or Lucent,
or... Microsoft is probably not planning on opening up the source to
Windows, but Linux and the BSDs are open. All have their place. MS
stifled competition, but not because they patented the world.
Having a good idea, and protecting it from being ripped off isn't a bad
thing in the end. But, if you stifle people's ability to make competing
products, or block them from innovating, it's bad.
intellectual or physical and make it available to all.
Ok, did I spoil
the surprise for anyone about what's in store for the citizens of the
U.S. if Al Gore is successfully maneuvered into office by the mass
media and pharmaceutical manufacturers, etc.?
I've heard both sides of this debate, and I fear both of them, to be
honest.
Neither of them will have interns, will they?
<ducking>
And, just to try to be somewhere within the general range of this list,
I will now mention an old computer:
PDP 11/34a.
--
Tim Harrison
Network Engineer
harrison(a)timharrison.com
http://www.networklevel.com/
6:47 p.m.
New subject: PDP-11/34a (was: NYT on...)
On Tue, 19 Sep 2000, Tim Harrison wrote:
And, just to try to be somewhere within the general
range of this list,
I will now mention an old computer:
PDP 11/34a.
Excellent choice! I've got one and want to restore it! :-)
--
R. D. Davis "The best way to gain a true understanding of
rdd(a)perqlogic.com Wile E. Coyote on the Roadrunner cartoons is to
http://www.perqlogic.com/rdd fly, head-first, off a horse into something like
410-744-4900 a fence or a tree; trust me, this works." --RDD
20 Sep
20 Sep
4:16 a.m.
New subject: PDP-11/34a (was: NYT on...)
"R. D. Davis" wrote:
Me too. :) Hence my choice. I have no idea where to start. I've got
this 6' rack sitting in my living room, filled with DEC bits o' PDP.
I'm currently afraid to plug it in, as we already have limited power in
our apartment. :)
--
Tim Harrison
Network Engineer
harrison(a)timharrison.com
http://www.networklevel.com/
PDP 11/34a.
Excellent choice! I've got one and want to restore it! :-) 
4:50 a.m.
New subject: PDP-11/34a (was: NYT on...)
I'm currently afraid to plug it in, as we already
have limited power in
our apartment. :)
I went through this argument with a roommate once. I won when I
pointed out that I would have to simultaneously start both of the
RK05s on my PDP-8/e to match the current draw of his blow dryer.
--
Roger Ivie
rivie(a)teraglobal.com
Not speaking for TeraGlobal Communications Corporation
5:44 a.m.
New subject: PDP-11/34a (was: NYT on...)
I'm
currently afraid to plug it in, as we already have limited power in
our apartment. :)
I went through this argument with a roommate once. I won when I
pointed out that I would have to simultaneously start both of the
RK05s on my PDP-8/e to match the current draw of his blow dryer.
--
Roger Ivie
rivie(a)teraglobal.com
Not speaking for TeraGlobal Communications Corporation
5:48 a.m.
New subject: PDP-11/34a (was: NYT on...)
Roger Ivie wrote:
I went through this argument with a roommate once. I
won when I
pointed out that I would have to simultaneously start both of the
RK05s on my PDP-8/e to match the current draw of his blow dryer.
As there are currently 19 machines running in my apartment, along with 6
monitors, a couple of external SCSI disk arrays, two fans, all of our
electrical appliances, stereos, etc., we've discovered that plugging in
anything more will blow the fuses. We've got a couple of spare ones
ready, as we've shown we need them. :)
I've been through that argument myself with my wife, in trying to get
more computers. :) Unfortunately, I'm running out of argument.
--
Tim Harrison
Network Engineer
harrison(a)timharrison.com
http://www.networklevel.com/
3:43 p.m.
New subject: PDP-11/34a (was: NYT on...)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim Harrison" <harrison(a)timharrison.com>
To: <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org>
Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2000 10:48 AM
Subject: Re: PDP-11/34a (was: NYT on...)
As there are currently 19 machines running in my
apartment, along with 6
monitors, a couple of external SCSI disk arrays, two fans, all of our
electrical appliances, stereos, etc., we've discovered that plugging in
anything more will blow the fuses. We've got a couple of spare ones
ready, as we've shown we need them. :)
Tim Harrison
I have a little over 20 machines in my basement -- mostly PCs of the Pentium
class (a no-cost cluster :) ) but a few anceint sun boxen, 2 19" monitors,
television, printers, hubs, stereo, power tools and a few other things. I've
never blown a breaker in this house (knock on wood), but every time someone
uses the treadmill across the basement my UPS sees it as a brownout and
switches to battery power.
Kevin
4:09 p.m.
New subject: PDP-11/34a (was: NYT on...)
Kevin Stewart wrote:
I have a little over 20 machines in my basement --
mostly PCs of the Pentium
class (a no-cost cluster :) ) but a few anceint sun boxen, 2 19" monitors,
television, printers, hubs, stereo, power tools and a few other things. I've
never blown a breaker in this house (knock on wood), but every time someone
uses the treadmill across the basement my UPS sees it as a brownout and
switches to battery power.
Unfortunately, I'm an apartment dweller. I'm at the whim of the
building's power. We've been having regular brownouts today, all day,
at almost regular intervals. I wouldn't really have noticed it, as I
tend not to pay too much attention to lights, but the computer room
light dimmed, and I freaked out. Turning off almost all of my stuff
didn't change it, so I have to call the building management. Most of my
stuff is on UPS, so I'm okay with that. Some isn't, though, and that
bothers me.
Man, I can't wait until I can afford to buy a real house, with real
power, and a real lawn. I've been thinking of putting Astroturf[tm] on
the balcony, to simulate a lawn. :)
BTW, riding the elevator with three other people, and a 6' rack of
PDP-11 is an interesting experience. Especially when you live on the
25th floor. :)
--
Tim Harrison
Network Engineer
harrison(a)timharrison.com
http://www.networklevel.com/
10:59 p.m.
New subject: PDP-11/34a (was: NYT on...)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim Harrison" <harrison(a)timharrison.com>
To: <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org>
Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2000 10:39 AM
Subject: Re: PDP-11/34a (was: NYT on...)
Man, I can't wait until I can afford to buy a real
house, with real
power, and a real lawn. I've been thinking of putting Astroturf[tm]
on
the balcony, to simulate a lawn. :)
Lawns are a novelty that soon wears off. Trust me. You will find
yourself
pushing a noisy lawnmower around or manicuring the weeds when you'd
rather be tinkering.
BTW, riding the elevator with three other people, and
a 6' rack of
PDP-11 is an interesting experience.
I once transported a Vax cluster, 2 x Vax 6000's, a couple of HSC70's
and some drive cabinets
from Adelaide to Pirie (around 140 miles by road) in a
one ton ute, er,
pickup to you yanks, with a
8x4 trailer carrying the excess. Stopped for something to eat and drink
at a place called Port Wakefield
around 60 miles into the trip. Small place, consists of around 500
people and 5 or 6 roadhouses, catering to
long distance truck drivers and the like. Got some very strange looks
and spent some time between sips of coffee
explaining that to numerous people that it was a computer system.
It's amazing how many people think computers ALWAYS fitted in a box on a
desk. Those under the age of 20 particularly have great
difficulty accepting this....
Especially when you live on the
25th floor. :)
And I thought a second floor flat was bad. Do you need oxygen?
A high rise around here is defined as any building with more than 1
floor.
(I live in a modest 4 BR single floor home attached to my shop these
days)
Cheers
Geoff Roberts
Computer Systems Manager
Saint Mark's College
Port Pirie,
South Australia
geoffrob(a)stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au
ICQ: 1970476
21 Sep
21 Sep
2:46 a.m.
New subject: PDP-11/34a (was: NYT on...)
On Thu, 21 Sep 2000 17:29:30 +0930 Geoff Roberts
<geoffrob(a)stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au> wrote:
From: "Tim Harrison"
<harrison(a)timharrison.com>
To: <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org>
Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2000 10:39 AM
Subject: Re: PDP-11/34a (was: NYT on...)
My friend tells a story about a PDP-11/34a (how
appropriate) that he was rescuing from King's College,
London. A few friends helped him get the 11 and some disk
packs into the lift (elevator). This was the same lift
that the medical school used to transport bodies on wheeled
trolleys, so it was about that size.
The lift got stuck with the 11, disk packs and three people
in. The engineer was called, and after a considerable
delay, arrived and fixed the lift. Now we have an 11,
disks and people on the ground floor, but it's quite late
at night. The London tube (subway) has stopped running for
the night.
So, everybody piles into a Mini, along with PDP-11, etc.
Now a Mini is a small car, even for England (anybody
remember The Itailian Job?) and not designed for a heavy
load. So, they're driving across London in the small hours
of the morning in an overloaded Mini -- but all ends well,
and the PDP is still alive and running in Bristol.
--
John Honniball
Email: John.Honniball(a)uwe.ac.uk
University of the West of England
BTW, riding the elevator with three other people,
and a 6' rack of
PDP-11 is an interesting experience.
I once transported a Vax cluster, 2 x Vax
6000's, a couple of HSC70's
and some drive cabinets from Adelaide to Pirie
4:09 a.m.
New subject: PDP-11/34a (was: NYT on...)
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Honniball" <John.Honniball(a)uwe.ac.uk>
To: <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org>
Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2000 9:16 PM
Subject: Re: PDP-11/34a (was: NYT on...)
My friend tells a story about a PDP-11/34a (how
appropriate) that he was rescuing from King's College,
London. A few friends helped him get the 11 and some disk
packs into the lift (elevator). This was the same lift
that the medical school used to transport bodies on wheeled
trolleys, so it was about that size.
A good sized rack of gear......
So, everybody piles into a Mini, along with PDP-11,
etc.
Now a Mini is a small car, even for England
Yup, had one for a while, my first car was its remote ancestor the
Morris Minor.
(1948 sidevalve lowlight 2 door, big high radiator and no water pump,
cooling system ran (not terribly well in Aussie summers) on 'thermal
syphonage' - wish I still had it!!)
(anybody remember The Itailian Job?)
Mini Cooper S's if I recall correctly.
and not designed for a heavy
load. So, they're driving across London in the small hours
of the morning in an overloaded Mini -- but all ends well,
and the PDP is still alive and running in Bristol.
I'm wondering how much of the '11 was protruding from the Mini.
House brick on wheels....
Cheers
Geoff Roberts
Computer Systems Manager
Saint Mark's College
Port Pirie,
South Australia
geoffrob at stmarks dot pp dot catholic dot edu dot au
ICQ: 1970476
8:40 a.m.
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2:17 p.m.
New subject: PDP-11/34a (was: NYT on...)
On Thu, 21 Sep 2000, Tony Duell wrote:
Incidentally, I've been in a car (not a
particularly big car) that also
contained a PDP8/e, PDP11/44 CPU, Sun 3/260, Zilog S8000/30, Northstar
Horizon, Acorn System 4, loads of spare boards, manauls, prints, etc.
Self-levelling suspension is a rather nice thing to have if you collect
large computers...
You put all THAT in a 2CV?
M. K. Peirce
Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc.
215 Shady Lea Road,
North Kingstown, RI 02852
"Casta est qui nemo rogavit."
- Ovid
2:16 p.m.
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2:57 p.m.
New subject: PDP-11/34a (was: NYT on...)
Tony Duell wrote:
You have 2CV with self-levelling suspension? How?
That was my initial reaction -- I didn't think that the 2CV had the hydropneumatic
weirdness of its younger and larger brethern, but then it came to me: The 2CV
is so fragile that if one were to load all that stuff into one its wheels would splay
outwards until the frame rails were resting on the ground -- hence self-leveling ;-)
--
Chris Kennedy
chris(a)mainecoon.com
http://www.mainecoon.com
PGP fingerprint: 4E99 10B6 7253 B048 6685 6CBC 55E1 20A3 108D AB97
Incidentally, I've been in a car (not a particularly big car) that also
contained a PDP8/e, PDP11/44 CPU, Sun 3/260, Zilog S8000/30, Northstar
Horizon, Acorn System 4, loads of spare boards, manauls, prints, etc.
Self-levelling suspension is a rather nice thing to have if you collect
large computers...
You put all THAT in a 2CV? 
7:12 p.m.
New subject: PDP-11/34a (was: NYT on...)
On Fri, 22 Sep 2000, Tony Duell wrote:
You have 2CV with self-levelling suspension? How?
-tony
Twice per oscillation, Tony.
- don
Incidentally, I've been in a car (not a
particularly big car) that also
contained a PDP8/e, PDP11/44 CPU, Sun 3/260, Zilog S8000/30, Northstar
Horizon, Acorn System 4, loads of spare boards, manauls, prints, etc.
Self-levelling suspension is a rather nice thing to have if you collect
large computers...
You put all THAT in a 2CV?
22 Sep
22 Sep
3:27 a.m.
New subject: PDP-11/34a (was: NYT on...)
It's quite surprising to realise the space there is in an MGB-GT.
Actually, I have put more computers in one than my friend's Chrysler LeBaron
could carry. I've also hauled an Austin 1300 engine/transmission assembly in
one, but that \/\/as just a bit hairy.
On Fri, 22 Sep 2000, Tony Duell wrote:
You have 2CV with self-levelling suspension? How?
-tony
M. K. Peirce
Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc.
215 Shady Lea Road,
North Kingstown, RI 02852
"Casta est qui nemo rogavit."
- Ovid
Incidentally, I've been in a car (not a
particularly big car) that also
contained a PDP8/e, PDP11/44 CPU, Sun 3/260, Zilog S8000/30, Northstar
Horizon, Acorn System 4, loads of spare boards, manauls, prints, etc.
Self-levelling suspension is a rather nice thing to have if you collect
large computers...
You put all THAT in a 2CV? 
6:11 a.m.
New subject: PDP-11/34a (was: NYT on...)
On Fri, 22 Sep 2000, Merle K. Peirce wrote:
It's quite surprising to realise the space there
is in an MGB-GT.
Actually, I have put more computers in one than my friend's Chrysler LeBaron
could carry. I've also hauled an Austin 1300 engine/transmission assembly in
one, but that \/\/as just a bit hairy.
I've committed some pretty zany hauls in my time. The latest was
transporting about 15 Apple ][+'s and //e's complete with monitors (some
monochrome, some big Amdek color), disk drives, and ImageWriter printers
(only 2) in a two-door Honda Civic. I have pictures to show the magnitude
of ridiculousness.
http://www.siconic.com/crap/Stuffed_Civic_1.jpg
http://www.siconic.com/crap/Stuffed_Civic_2.jpg
http://www.siconic.com/crap/Stuffed_Civic_3.jpg
http://www.siconic.com/crap/Unloaded_Civic.jpg
The last picture shows the contents laid out.
This was a lot easier in my old 4-door Honda. Now I drive a nice new
Camry but I'm not ruining the leather interior with this sort of nonsense
:)
Sellam International Man of Intrigue and Danger
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Looking for a six in a pile of nines...
VCF 4.0 is September 30-October 1
San Jose Convention Center, San Jose, California
See http://www.vintage.org for details!
10:01 a.m.
New subject: PDP-11/34a (was: NYT on...)
It's quite
surprising to realise the space there is in an MGB-GT.
Actually, I have put more computers in one than my friend's Chrysler LeBaron
could carry. I've also hauled an Austin 1300 engine/transmission assembly in
one, but that \/\/as just a bit hairy.
I've committed some pretty zany hauls
in my time. The latest was
transporting about 15 Apple ][+'s and //e's complete with monitors (some
monochrome, some big Amdek color), disk drives, and ImageWriter printers
(only 2) in a two-door Honda Civic. I have pictures to show the magnitude
of ridiculousness. http://www.siconic.com/crap/Stuffed_Civic_1.jpg
http://www.siconic.com/crap/Stuffed_Civic_2.jpg
http://www.siconic.com/crap/Stuffed_Civic_3.jpg
http://www.siconic.com/crap/Unloaded_Civic.jpg
The last picture shows the contents laid out.
:) This looks a bit like my last transport of some stuff from
John Z.s Storage after we unpacked a not to be mentioned 20'
container from LA :)
This was a lot easier in my old 4-door Honda. Now I
drive a nice new
Camry but I'm not ruining the leather interior with this sort of nonsense
Serious ? You're joking !
Anyway, tow good weeks to all of you, I'm off for VCF.
Servus
Hans
--
VCF Europa 2.0 am 28./29. April 2001 in Muenchen
http://www.vintage.org/vcfe
http://www.homecomputer.de/vcfe
21 Sep
21 Sep
7:40 a.m.
New subject: PDP-11/34a (was: NYT on...)
Geoff Roberts wrote:
Lawns are a novelty that soon wears off. Trust me.
You will find
yourself
pushing a noisy lawnmower around or manicuring the weeds when you'd
rather be tinkering.
I wouldn't mind pushing a noisy lawn mower around. In fact, I'd have to
get one of those nifty lawn tractors.
pickup to you yanks, with a
Ack! I'm Canadian. :) Don't mix me in with that lot. ;) I only lived
and worked there for two years.
And I thought a second floor flat was bad. Do you
need oxygen?
A high rise around here is defined as any building with more than 1
floor.
(I live in a modest 4 BR single floor home attached to my shop these
days)
It's a thirty floor building (with rooftop pool -- I hate swimming, but
my wife doesn't) in the midst of Toronto. A particulary expensive
midst, I might add. Great view, no space. Two bedroom apartment, with
one bedroom converted into a computer lab.
--
Tim Harrison
Network Engineer
harrison(a)timharrison.com
http://www.networklevel.com/
20 Sep
20 Sep
5:54 a.m.
New subject: PDP-11/34a
"R. D. Davis" wrote:
Me too. :) Hence my choice. I have no idea where to start. I've got
this 6' rack sitting in my living room, filled with DEC bits o' PDP.
I'm currently afraid to plug it in, as we already have limited power in
our apartment. :)
--
Tim Harrison
Network Engineer
harrison(a)timharrison.com
http://www.networklevel.com/
First thing -- work on the CPU and DL11 serial port, once that's up
move to the peripherals.
There's no problem bringing up an 11/34 on 110v AC... you can just plug
the BA11 box with the CPU to the wall (assuming you've got the US 110v
version of it all).
On an 11/34, I'd drop the top and bottom cover on the ba11 box and check
that nothing's loose or shorted and then run a vacuum nozzle over the
boards one at a time to suck out the loose dirt.
Before you clean it out, write down the exact position and slot of each
board and cable.
I'd also run it over the backplane slots after pulling the boards.
Add serial terminal to serial port and see what happens.
Bill
--
bpechter(a)monmouth.com | Microsoft: Where do you want to go today?
| Linux: Where do you want to go tomorrow?
| BSD: Are you guys coming, or what?
PDP
11/34a.
Excellent choice! I've got one and want to restore it! :-)
6:19 a.m.
New subject: PDP-11/34a
Bill Pechter wrote:
First thing -- work on the CPU and DL11 serial port,
once that's up
move to the peripherals.
There's no problem bringing up an 11/34 on 110v AC... you can just plug
the BA11 box with the CPU to the wall (assuming you've got the US 110v
version of it all).
This thing was used at Canadian Forces Base London during the late 70s,
ending it's run in '81, from what I can tell. I have 10 or so binders
of schematics, maintenance documentation, etc. Still don't know
anything about it. :)
On an 11/34, I'd drop the top and bottom cover on
the ba11 box and check
that nothing's loose or shorted and then run a vacuum nozzle over the
boards one at a time to suck out the loose dirt.
Once I figure out what that is, I'll do it. :) I need a visual guide to
the PDP-11/34a. :)
Add serial terminal to serial port and see what
happens.
I've got a DECServer 200/MC. Can I use it with this machine?
--
Tim Harrison
Network Engineer
harrison(a)timharrison.com
http://www.networklevel.com/
7:30 a.m.
New subject: PDP-11/34a
Add serial
terminal to serial port and see what happens.
I've got a DECServer 200/MC. Can I use it with this machine?
9:39 a.m.
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12:28 p.m.
New subject: PDP-11/34a (was: NYT on...)
On Wed, 20 Sep 2000, Tony Duell wrote:
My experience with these machines suggest that unless
you _know_ you have
a complete, working, system it's best to start with a minimal system (CPU
All I know is that I have a complete rusting system. ...well, it was
complete before I thoroughly disassembled it back in 1997. It's only
the chassis, that's still rusting, the power transformer now seems to
be ok.
This is going to be somewhat general, but it'll
give you an idea of
what's involved. When you actually get started, post more questions, and
I (and others) will get out the manuals.
To start with, take the cover off the CPU box (the unit with the octal
Ermmm... I already did that. :-)
keypad on the front). Make a note of what all the
boards are, where they
go, their M-numbers (on the handles of the boards), etc. And where all
the cables go (some go to the frontpanel in the CPU box, some go to the
peripherals (if you have disks, for example) and some will go to serial
ports for the terminals. Also mark which way round they go, of course.
Did that too. Alas, I'm still saerching for those notes where I jotted
all that down, in detail.
Then pull all the boards and cables. Identify what the
various boards do
from the Module Lists (e.g. on the web).
Did that.
With all the boards out, plug the CPU box PSU (only)
into the mains. I
My PSU is in bits as well... I took it apart to oil the transformer,
like I did the PDP-8/e, if you recall. For those unfamiliar with the
concept of oiling a transformer, it was an attempt at slowing down the
rusting of the cores.
would guess you have a 110V unit and it'll have a
normal 15A 3 pin plug
on it. For the moment, disconnect the small 3-pin power control bus
plugs, but again note how they go.
Did that.
Turn on the CPU box at the front panel control, and
the fans should start
Ok, but no fans are going to start at this point. :-)
up. Check all power lines at the backplane with a
voltmeter (again, ask
here as to what pins to check if you don't have information on the
backplane). If any are missing/incorrect, it's time to start
troubleshooting the PSU.
When I get this machine reassembled, I'll go through all these steps.
Thanks very much for providing everyone on this list with information
about the correct way to bring a machine back to life rather than the
horrid "just plug it in and see what happens" approach that some take.
[...]
With that configuration you should be able to enter
programs on the front
panel and run them. You should also be able to run Console ODT (a tiny
Speaking of the front panel of these machines, has anyone here added more
lights to the front panel in order to have a real set of blinking lights?
Something tells me that doing so shouldn't be too difficult a hack.
That should give you a general idea of what's
going to be involved...
Yes, lots of fun. :-)
--
R. D. Davis "The best way to gain a true understanding of
rdd(a)perqlogic.com Wile E. Coyote on the Roadrunner cartoons is to
http://www.perqlogic.com/rdd fly, head-first, off a horse into something like
410-744-4900 a fence or a tree; trust me, this works." --RDD
1:10 p.m.
New subject: PDP-11/34a (was: NYT on...)
On Wed, 20 Sep 2000, R. D. Davis wrote:
On Wed, 20 Sep 2000, Tony Duell wrote:
(to quote Bugs Bunny...) Well now, I wouldn't say *that*...
You see, (assuming you have the FP with the 'programmers panel' (seven
segment displays and keypad) rather than the 'operators panel' (power
switch and run/stop/boot dial), you actually have an interesting deviation
With that configuration you should be able to
enter programs on the front
panel and run them. You should also be able to run Console ODT (a tiny
Speaking of the front panel of these machines, has anyone here added more
lights to the front panel in order to have a real set of blinking lights?
Something tells me that doing so shouldn't be too difficult a hack. from the 'norm' for PDP front panels.
You see, the 'programmers panel' is not hardwired to the CPU/bus like most
of the other systems are. As you watch the display and whack (gently
please) the keys you are actually talking to an (don't bonk) Intel 8008
processor, which in turn actually communicates your intents to the
system...
Now, while this would obviously not preclude adding 'bit lights', it would
be quite the interesting exercise.
-jim
---
jimw(a)computergarage.org || jimw(a)agora.rdrop.com
The Computer Garage - http://www.computergarage.org
Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174
1:16 p.m.
New subject: PDP-11/34a (was: NYT on...)
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21 Sep
21 Sep
7:22 a.m.
New subject: PDP-11/34a (was: NYT on...)
Speaking of the front panel of these machines, has
anyone here added more
lights to the front panel in order to have a real set of blinking lights?
Something tells me that doing so shouldn't be too difficult a hack.
I happened to get my hands on the DEC blueprint for this that I
could copy out for those of you with more spare time right now
than I...
John A.
20 Sep
20 Sep
6:55 a.m.
On Tue, 19 Sep 2000 tim.mann(a)compaq.com wrote:
It's more the point is that Gates and Co. used U.S. government and Harvard
University computers to develop their BASIC. If Harvard had done what it
was well within its rights to do and claimed ownership of the code or placed
it in the public domain, rather than just giving Gates the boot, the computing
world might be a somewhat different place.
Gates's entire career has been about theft. Seeing him complain about
someone stealing from him... The hipocracy is downright funny.
The tone of that article really annoys me. The
idea seems to be to blur
the distinction between sharing your own work (obviously laudable) and
sharing someone else's work without their permission (obviously unethical,
and folks generally knew that even in 1975). It also tries to oversimplify
Wasn't there also an issue about Bill Gates & Friends having acquired
that code they based it on unethically as well? I seem to recall
having read something about that numerous places over a decade ago, or
has that little bit of history been rewritten?
Ok, did I spoil
the surprise for anyone about what's in store for the citizens of the
U.S. if Al Gore is successfully maneuvered into office by the mass
media and pharmaceutical manufacturers, etc.?
Can we cut the political fearmongering? Do you really think Mr "I got
no-cost oil leases in the middle-east cause my Daddy kicked Iraq's ass" is
that much different? Who do you think is paying W.'s bills? Honest citizens?
Eric
7:18 a.m.
On Tue, 19 Sep
2000 tim.mann(a)compaq.com wrote:
Wasn't there also an issue about Bill Gates & Friends having acquired
that code they based it on unethically as well? I seem to recall
having read something about that numerous places over a decade ago, or
has that little bit of history been rewritten?
It's more the point is that Gates and Co. used U.S. government and Harvard
University computers to develop their BASIC. If Harvard had done what it
was well within its rights to do and claimed ownership of the code or placed
it in the public domain, rather than just giving Gates the boot, the computing
world might be a somewhat different place.
Gates's entire career has been about theft. Seeing him complain about
someone stealing from him... The hipocracy is downright funny.
Eric
7:37 a.m.
Well, there hasn't been a real good book on the
early days of Microsoft,
the Harvard incident, MS's buy and kill method of eliminating
competition and inovation, etc.
Harvard appears to have sealed or destroyed any record of what occurred
when B.G. "dropped out" as part of whatever agreement was reached. Nobody
who really knows the details is saying much of anything. No one in the
press appears to even consider that Bill didn't really "drop out"
voluntarily.
If they did consider it, their editor would probably kill it.
Seems like no one has the info or guts for the tell
all book.
Either that or they don't have the ability to convince a publisher that
it's a good idea to annoy someone who could buy them with pocket change.
Eric
7:45 a.m.
New subject: CoCoFEST & Re: NYT on the Theft of Altair BASIC
Rumor has it that Bill Pechter may have mentioned these words:
Well, there hasn't been a real good book on the
early days of Microsoft,
the Harvard incident, MS's buy and kill method of eliminating
competition and inovation, etc.
Seems like no one has the info or guts for the tell all book.
Guts? Sure. Hell, I'm not afraid of him. (Scott McNealy is my hero... ;-)
Info? I don't have it, and wouldn't have a clue as to where to find it...
but if I did, I'd take a crack at writing it (if, of course, I actually had
the time... ;-)
I'd buy copies for a number of folks so they could
see what MS and BG
is really about.
Me too... Some of my close friends mention to me about my MS "opinion"
which, simply put, is (low, loud, gravelly booming voice) "Windows Sucks"
but mainly because in a computer-selling-business-environment it's not that
great to say to the general computer-buying populace, which is true and I'm
working on that.
<Soapbox>
However, for those friends who tell me "you only say that because you're
jealous" 1) don't know me very well - I'm not interested in monetary wealth
beyond comfortable living, and 2) would get the book... ahem... as we say
in the US Army - up their 3rd point of contact, just before a Size 9 Kiwi
Enema (the name taken for the type of boot polish used in the Military, not
the NZ fruit... ;-)
</Soapbox>
Anywho - back on track - just a friendly reminder that on May 5 & 6th,
2001, the Glenside Color Computer Club is holding the 10th annual "Last"
Chicago CoCoFEST in Elgin, Illinois - and I *actually* asked the time off
to go this time!!! Damn, I've wanted to go for over 15 years, and I finally
can!!! :-) :-)
For more info, email Tony Podraza - tonypodraza(a)juno.com or Brian Goers,
bgoers(a)ais.net. Website: http://members.aol.com/clubbbs/glenside
See y'all!
Roger "Merch" Merchberger
--
Roger "Merch" Merchberger --- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers
Recycling is good, right??? Ok, so I'll recycle an old .sig.
If at first you don't succeed, nuclear warhead
disarmament should *not* be your first career choice.
4:19 p.m.
New subject: CoCoFEST & Re: NYT on the Theft of Altair BASIC
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roger Merchberger" <zmerch(a)30below.com>
To: <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org>
Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2000 2:15 AM
Subject: CoCoFEST & Re: NYT on the Theft of Altair BASIC
in the US Army - up their 3rd point of contact, just
before a Size 9 Kiwi
Enema (the name taken for the type of boot polish used in the Military,
not
the NZ fruit... ;-)
Well I'll be darned. Kiwi Black Parade Gloss is used by the US Army.
(and I thought it was a purely ANZAC tradition)
.....and I hate windoze too, the only thing I've seen good in it in recent
times is the internet connection
sharing, which seems to work very well with anything that speaks
ethernet/TCP/IP, including Vaxen, old macs etc.
I thought Micro$oft had actually done something noteworthy til I found out
it was someone else's product, that they simply bought outright and
integrated into Win98SE. Shoulda known......
Cheers
Geoff Roberts
Computer Systems Manager
Saint Mark's College
Port Pirie,
South Australia
geoffrob(a)stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au
AKA
Flying Officer (AIRTC) Geoff Roberts
Officer Commanding,
No. 14 (City of Port Pirie) Flight,
S.A. Squadron, Air Training Corps.
8:52 a.m.
At 08:55 AM 9/20/00 -0700, Eric J. Korpela wrote:
It's more the point is that Gates and Co. used U.S.
government and Harvard
University computers to develop their BASIC. If Harvard had done what it
was well within its rights to do and claimed ownership of the code or placed
it in the public domain, rather than just giving Gates the boot, the computing
world might be a somewhat different place.
Yes, but universities are also well-known for letting researchers
and even students use their computers for whatever purpose they
like, without regard for the intellectual property rights...
as opposed to the average corporation today, which will claim
to own everything you do on their equipment and even outside
the office, or in the case of one employee agreement a top-5
company once tried to get me to sign, everything you did in
the 18 months *after* you'd left their employment, as well.
- John
9:41 a.m.
At 08:55 AM 9/20/00 -0700, Eric J. Korpela wrote:
Not the Univerisity I work for. It claims rights to any code I develop
on university computers. (But fortunately it doesn't have a problem of open
source or public domain release of most source code.) There was a volunteer
on a project here that tried to use some software developed here for a
commercial venture. The university made him rewrite it from scratch...
And he wasn't even paid for his work...
Eric
It's more the point is that Gates and Co. used
U.S. government and Harvard
University computers to develop their BASIC. If Harvard had done what it
was well within its rights to do and claimed ownership of the code or placed
it in the public domain, rather than just giving Gates the boot, the computing
world might be a somewhat different place.
Yes, but universities are also well-known for letting researchers
and even students use their computers for whatever purpose they
like, without regard for the intellectual property rights...
8710
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38 comments
22 participants
participants (22)
-
ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk -
at258＠osfn.org -
chris＠mainecoon.com -
donm＠cts.com -
foo＠siconic.com -
geoffrob＠stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au -
Hans.Franke＠mch20.sbs.de -
harrison＠timharrison.com -
healyzh＠aracnet.com -
jfoust＠threedee.com -
jimw＠agora.rdrop.com -
John.Allain＠donnelley.infousa.com -
John.Honniball＠uwe.ac.uk -
korpela＠ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu -
korpela＠siren.ssl.berkeley.edu -
mikeford＠socal.rr.com -
pechter＠pechter.dyndns.org -
rdd＠smart.net -
rivie＠teraglobal.com -
stewart_kevin＠hotmail.com -
tim.mann＠compaq.com -
zmerch＠30below.com