31 Jul
2001
31 Jul
'01
4:28 a.m.
At 09:48 PM 7/30/01 -0700, Fred wrote:
GM saved a lot of money by making an aluminum block
with a friction
reducing coating (Teflon??). It worked well for a limited time.
Actually they didn't add a coating to the cylinder wall. What they did
was to make the engine out of high silicon aluminium, then they chemically
etched away some the aluminium in the cylinders to leave high-silicon
content for the pistons to ride on. This was GM attempt to get away from
having to add steel cylinder sleeves to an otherwise aluminium engine
block. (You CAN NOT run aluminium against aluminium.) Needless to say this
design was highly dependent on high quality oil, frequent oil changes and a
GOOD oiling system. Unfortunately the oil pump and oil system were a joke
and Americans aren't known for frequent car maintainance.
Joe
31 Jul
31 Jul
4:57 a.m.
This is the same process used by Porsche and Mahle to cast the 924 and
944/968 engines. The problem was in the casting process. GM tried to
cool the blocks too fast which led to uneven distribution of silicon in
the aluminum cylinder wall. Porsche and Mahle used the same process,
but put heaters in the cores of the cylinder molds to slowly allow that
walls to cool. This allowed the silicon to evenly distribute in the
wall. I had the head off my 944 at 145k miles and the cylinder still
had hone marks with no visible wear or ridge at the top cylinder wall.
Now at over 300k miles, the compression is starting to drop. Probably
needs new rings.
joe wrote:
At 09:48 PM 7/30/01 -0700, Fred wrote:
GM saved a lot of money by making an aluminum
block with a friction
reducing coating (Teflon??). It worked well for a limited time.
Actually they didn't add a coating to the cylinder wall. What they did
was to make the engine out of high silicon aluminium, then they chemically
etched away some the aluminium in the cylinders to leave high-silicon
content for the pistons to ride on. This was GM attempt to get away from
having to add steel cylinder sleeves to an otherwise aluminium engine
block. (You CAN NOT run aluminium against aluminium.) Needless to say this
design was highly dependent on high quality oil, frequent oil changes and a
GOOD oiling system. Unfortunately the oil pump and oil system were a joke
and Americans aren't known for frequent car maintainance.
Joe 
6:18 a.m.
On Tue, 31 Jul 2001, joe wrote:
and Americans aren't known for frequent car
maintainance.
There was a time when frequent car maintenance was easier and more
convenient for Americans who aren't shade-tree mechanics. What I'm
referring to is the scarcity these days of convenient places to get a
tune-up, grease job and oil change. Places like Jiffy Lube don't
count, as they're as likely to damage a car as they are to change the
oil, etc. properly. Not so long ago, there was a higher percentage of
corner gas stations, with more than one mechanic working in them, to
cars. One could often just drive up to a service station, pull into a
bay, and get a car repaired without having to drop it off or make an
appointment.
Even finding a mechanic who can perform a tune up is becoming
difficult; many don't know how to adjust points or carburators, and
one can forget about having the dwell adjusted or getting a
distributor curved; one shop that I called about the later had no idea
as to what I was talking about. If they'd get all these new cars with
ridiculously overly complex engines off the road and put carburators
and distributors with points back in cars, people would have fewer
problems with maintenance and finding parts 20 years later. Of
course, Big Brother wouldn't like that, as the old cars can't be
stopped by a high-energy blast that makes electronic components in the
new engines break down.
--
Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals:
All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature &
rdd(a)rddavis.net 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such
http://www.rddavis.net beliefs and to justify much human cruelty.
6:46 a.m.
At 02:18 PM 7/31/01 -0400, R. D. Davis wrote:
There was a time when frequent car maintenance was
easier and more
convenient for Americans who aren't shade-tree mechanics.
Out here, not only are there drop-off car fix-it places
that really fix them, they do it at seemingly ridiculously
low prices, and they ask you to leave your keys in the
ignition or on the visor. We also have full-serve gas for the
same price as self-serve. There's a real drive-in movie
theater on the edge of town. We're 35 minutes from a Starbucks
or real boiled bagels, though.
- John
7:16 a.m.
Where in the world is this at? Even though we're in a little Mayberry-style
town where you can leave your door unlocked and things are clean and prices
are reasonable, the mechanics here are still gerbil-brained.
-> -----Original Message-----
-> From: owner-classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org
-> [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of John Foust
-> Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2001 1:46 PM
-> To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org
-> Subject: Re: Chevy Vega Re: Cheap cars (was: 1%...)
->
->
-> At 02:18 PM 7/31/01 -0400, R. D. Davis wrote:
-> >There was a time when frequent car maintenance was easier and more
-> >convenient for Americans who aren't shade-tree mechanics.
->
-> Out here, not only are there drop-off car fix-it places
-> that really fix them, they do it at seemingly ridiculously
-> low prices, and they ask you to leave your keys in the
-> ignition or on the visor. We also have full-serve gas for the
-> same price as self-serve. There's a real drive-in movie
-> theater on the edge of town. We're 35 minutes from a Starbucks
-> or real boiled bagels, though.
->
-> - John
->
->
8:48 a.m.
In New Jersey, gas is cheaper than most places, and it's ALL full-serve.
Self-serve is illegal.
Peace... Sridhar
On Tue, 31 Jul 2001, John Foust wrote:
Out here, not only are there drop-off car fix-it
places
that really fix them, they do it at seemingly ridiculously
low prices, and they ask you to leave your keys in the
ignition or on the visor. We also have full-serve gas for the
same price as self-serve. There's a real drive-in movie
theater on the edge of town. We're 35 minutes from a Starbucks
or real boiled bagels, though.
- John
5:09 p.m.
Whats a boiled bagel? What I think of being a bagel is a round bready
thing... like a donut, but made of bread not cake. How would you boil
that?
Chad Fernandez
Michigan, USA
John Foust wrote:
There's a real drive-in movie
theater on the edge of town. We're 35 minutes from a Starbucks
or real boiled bagels, though.
- John
5:40 p.m.
Chad Fernandez wrote:
Whats a boiled bagel? What I think of being a bagel
is a round bready
thing... like a donut, but made of bread not cake. How would you boil
that?
They're boiled as part of the fabrication process -- boiled to form the
shiny "crust", then baked...
--
Chris Kennedy
chris(a)mainecoon.com
http://www.mainecoon.com
PGP fingerprint: 4E99 10B6 7253 B048 6685 6CBC 55E1 20A3 108D AB97
6:29 p.m.
Oh, I see. Gee, the things I learn on this list :-)
Chad Fernandez
Michigan, USA
Chris Kennedy wrote:
Chad Fernandez wrote:
Whats a boiled bagel? What I think of being a
bagel is a round bready
thing... like a donut, but made of bread not cake. How would you boil
that?
They're boiled as part of the fabrication process -- boiled to form the
shiny "crust", then baked...
--
Chris Kennedy
chris(a)mainecoon.com
http://www.mainecoon.com
PGP fingerprint: 4E99 10B6 7253 B048 6685 6CBC 55E1 20A3 108D AB97 
7:13 p.m.
Whats a boiled bagel? What I think of being a bagel is
a round bready
thing... like a donut, but made of bread not cake. How would you boil
that?
What makes a bagel a bagel instead of bread is that after the dough rises
the first time its formed into donut shapes and dropped into boiling water
to kill the yeast so it doesn't rise anymore. The reference to a boiled
bagel I think suggests making a bagel in some less orthodox fashion (how I
don't know). After the boiling a bagel is still baked AFAIK.
1 Aug
1 Aug
2:28 a.m.
At 01:09 AM 8/1/01 -0400, Chad Fernandez wrote:
Whats a boiled bagel? What I think of being a bagel is
a round bready
thing... like a donut, but made of bread not cake. How would you boil
that?
An authentic bagel is boiled before it is baked. It gives it
the right crust and chewiness. Some of the lesser varieties
in the chain bagel shops are simply baked, and aren't quite
the same as the real thing.
- John
3:36 a.m.
The proper way to cook a bagel is to slow boil then flash bake it.
Doughnuts are deep fried.
Peace... Sridhar
On Wed, 1 Aug 2001, Chad Fernandez wrote:
Whats a boiled bagel? What I think of being a bagel
is a round bready
thing... like a donut, but made of bread not cake. How would you boil
that?
Chad Fernandez
Michigan, USA
4:05 a.m.
John Foust wrote:
There's a real drive-in movie
theater on the edge of town. We're 35 minutes from a Starbucks
or real boiled bagels, though.
That sounds like a good place to live! Is not an area's quality of
life inversely proportional to the existence of bagel shops or
Starbucks coffee shops? Both types of businesses appear to be
indications of an area on the fringe of decay, such as an area about
to turn into a city, an area that's trying to mimic one of the United
States' best examples of putrid places: New York City.
--
Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals:
All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature &
rdd(a)rddavis.net 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such
http://www.rddavis.net beliefs and to justify much human cruelty.
4:46 a.m.
New subject: Now I don't agree
R.D.Davis wrote:
John Foust wrote:
I'll give you the Starbucks -- but good bagel shops are a good thing.
That is places that sell mainly bagels -- not lattes and bagels.
Bill
---
Bill Gates is a Persian cat and a monocle away from being a
villain in a James Bond movie -- Dennis Miller
bpechter@shell.monmouth.com|pechter@pechter.dyndns.org
There's a real drive-in movie
theater on the edge of town. We're 35 minutes from a Starbucks
or real boiled bagels, though.
That sounds like a good place to live! Is not an area's quality of
life inversely proportional to the existence of bagel shops or
Starbucks coffee shops? Both types of businesses appear to be
indications of an area on the fringe of decay, such as an area about
to turn into a city, an area that's trying to mimic one of the United
States' best examples of putrid places: New York City. 
8:23 a.m.
New subject: Now I don't agree
Living in Staten Island, the city of bagel shops on every corner, most open
24 hrs a day, they are a Godsend and one of the best, most convenient
places when you've only got 2 mins to go in, order what you want, have it
prepared and your back out the door. Starbucks are novel, and a nice
occassional change, but the cost and the 10 min wait behind 2 people on
line is just a waste of time for what you get. Now a tall skim latte is a
little tough to get at a bagel shop, but when you weigh the plus' and
minus' I'll go to the 24hr Bagel-O-Rama anyday :-)
Curt
Bill Pechter wrote:
R.D.Davis wrote:
John Foust wrote:
I'll give you the Starbucks -- but good bagel shops are a good thing.
That is places that sell mainly bagels -- not lattes and bagels.
Bill
---
Bill Gates is a Persian cat and a monocle away from being a
villain in a James Bond movie -- Dennis Miller
bpechter@shell.monmouth.com|pechter@pechter.dyndns.org There's a real drive-in movie
theater on the edge of town. We're 35 minutes from a Starbucks
or real boiled bagels, though.
That sounds like a good place to live! Is not an area's quality of
life inversely proportional to the existence of bagel shops or
Starbucks coffee shops? Both types of businesses appear to be
indications of an area on the fringe of decay, such as an area about
to turn into a city, an area that's trying to mimic one of the United
States' best examples of putrid places: New York City. 
5:16 a.m.
New subject: OT: Bagels & Coffee (was: Chevy Vega...)
On Wed, 1 Aug 2001, R. D. Davis wrote:
Is not an area's quality of life inversely proportional to the
existence of bagel shops or Starbucks coffee shops?
Reminds me of a joke from one of Conan O'Brien's "In the Year 2000"
skits:
"In the Year 2000, researchers discover the secret ingredient of Starbucks
coffee: a chemical that makes you forget you paid $8 for a cup of coffee."
Man I love those skits...
--
Jeffrey S. Sharp
jss(a)subatomix.com
8:21 a.m.
or real boiled
bagels, though.
States' best examples of putrid places: New York City. 
31 Jul
31 Jul
8:43 a.m.
You do have an option today. Buy a nice looking car and put an Edelbrock
engine, four-barrel, intakes, etc. in it.
Peace... Sridhar
On Tue, 31 Jul 2001, R. D. Davis wrote:
On Tue, 31 Jul 2001, joe wrote:
and Americans aren't known for frequent car
maintainance.
There was a time when frequent car maintenance was easier and more
convenient for Americans who aren't shade-tree mechanics. What I'm
referring to is the scarcity these days of convenient places to get a
tune-up, grease job and oil change. Places like Jiffy Lube don't
count, as they're as likely to damage a car as they are to change the
oil, etc. properly. Not so long ago, there was a higher percentage of
corner gas stations, with more than one mechanic working in them, to
cars. One could often just drive up to a service station, pull into a
bay, and get a car repaired without having to drop it off or make an
appointment.
Even finding a mechanic who can perform a tune up is becoming
difficult; many don't know how to adjust points or carburators, and
one can forget about having the dwell adjusted or getting a
distributor curved; one shop that I called about the later had no idea
as to what I was talking about. If they'd get all these new cars with
ridiculously overly complex engines off the road and put carburators
and distributors with points back in cars, people would have fewer
problems with maintenance and finding parts 20 years later. Of
course, Big Brother wouldn't like that, as the old cars can't be
stopped by a high-energy blast that makes electronic components in the
new engines break down.
--
Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals:
All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature &
rdd(a)rddavis.net 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such
http://www.rddavis.net beliefs and to justify much human cruelty.
8311
days inactive
8312
days old
18 comments
13 participants
participants (13)
-
chris＠mainecoon.com -
curt＠atari-history.com -
fernande＠internet1.net -
jfoust＠threedee.com -
jrice＠texoma.net -
jss＠subatomix.com -
korpela＠ssl.berkeley.edu -
mikeford＠socal.rr.com -
pechter＠bg-tc-ppp1285.monmouth.com -
rdd＠smart.net -
rhblake＠bigfoot.com -
rigdonj＠intellistar.net -
vance＠ikickass.org