29 Dec
1999
29 Dec
'99
11:23 p.m.
I've been following the list for about a year and a half now and I'm
curious -- you guys (both genders) that have the room and the
know-how to run the big stuff -- what do you do with them? I guess
I'm not that familiar with non-business apps for minis and I'm just
curious what someone using a PDP at home would do with it?
Do you just write code for the sheer challenge of writing code?
Have you written real-world apps? Is it just nostalgia? Or do you
keep them running purely for historical reasons and don't have any
practical day-to-day use for them?
It just fascinates me that there are so many of you who run these
beasts and I'd just like to know why.
Thanks.
Paul Braun
NerdWare -- The History of the PC and the Nerds who brought it to you.
nerdware(a)laidbak.com
www.laidbak.com/nerdware
30 Dec
30 Dec
12:27 a.m.
Upon the date 07:23 AM 12/30/99 -0600, Paul Braun said something like:
I've been following the list for about a year and a
half now and I'm
curious -- you guys (both genders) that have the room and the
know-how to run the big stuff -- what do you do with them? I guess
I'm not that familiar with non-business apps for minis and I'm just
curious what someone using a PDP at home would do with it?
I'm still wondering that myself ;-) "Have the room . . ."? What's
that?! :-)
Do you just write code for the sheer challenge of
writing code?
Have you written real-world apps? Is it just nostalgia? Or do you
keep them running purely for historical reasons and don't have any
practical day-to-day use for them?
Yes.
It just fascinates me that there are so many of you who run these
beasts and I'd just like to know why.
Well, to begin answering your question, merely change the wording of your
questions in your second paragraph above so they read as statements. Most
of us feel that way in one or more of those ways. Well, real-world
applications are a stretch nowadays, but the rest and perhaps more still
apply. Fixing and tinkering with the hardware is a biggie for some too.
There are folks who ask me the same thing regarding my large collection of
early radios and early televisions, some large and heavy. Same answers.
I guess it follows even for folks collecting beer cans, comic books,
automobiles, Louis IV furniture, first edition books, War of the Rebellion
(US Civil War) armament, stamps and coins, Barbie dolls, Rosewood China,
Depression and Carnival glassware, Victorian era clothing, etc., etc.,
etc., etc. . . .
Regards, Chris
-- --
Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian
Jamestown, NY USA cfandt(a)netsync.net
Member of Antique Wireless Association
URL: http://www.antiquewireless.org/
2:11 a.m.
Date sent: Thu, 30 Dec 1999 09:27:10 -0500
Send reply to: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu
From: Christian Fandt <cfandt(a)netsync.net>
To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers"
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: Question for you 'big iron' collectors
Upon the date 07:23 AM 12/30/99 -0600, Paul Braun said
something like:
>I've been following the list for about a year and a half now and I'm
>curious -- you guys (both genders) that have the room and the
>know-how to run the big stuff -- what do you do with them? I guess
>I'm not that familiar with non-business apps for minis and I'm just
>curious what someone using a PDP at home would do with it?
I'm still wondering that myself ;-) "Have
the room . . ."? What's that?! :-)
:)) Chritian, you have a wonderfull house ... and still room in
the basement ...
And Paul, to get this straight, a PDP isn't realy Big Iron - unless
you name your Palm Pilot a full size server system.
>Do you just write code for the sheer challenge of
writing code?
>Have you written real-world apps? Is it just nostalgia? Or do you
>keep them running purely for historical reasons and don't have any
>practical day-to-day use for them?
Yes.
Historical reasons, Ways to finaly get what you ever dreamed
of (20 years ago) and play around ? Just fun.
>It just fascinates me that there are so many of
you who run these
>beasts and I'd just like to know why.
There are folks who ask me the same thing regarding my
large collection of
early radios and early televisions, some large and heavy. Same answers.
In fact, the situation is very similar - if you ignore this digital
radio and TV chanals you still can use your 30 year old TV set to
see Letterman, with no relevant difference (And when they air
I love Lucy or Flipper, not difference at all:).
I guess it follows even for folks collecting beer
cans, comic books,
automobiles, Louis IV furniture, first edition books, War of the Rebellion
(US Civil War) armament, stamps and coins, Barbie dolls, Rosewood China,
Depression and Carnival glassware, Victorian era clothing, etc., etc.,
etc., etc. . . .
Hmm at least for my person there's still a difference - unlike
a lot of collectors in other areas I realy tinker tith my computers.
Some owners of 'classic' furniture would rather go balistic when
you just upt a glass on top.
Anyway, Fun Fun Fun.
Servus
H.
--
Der Kopf ist auch nur ein Auswuchs wie der kleine Zeh.
H.Achternbusch
2:42 a.m.
Upon the date 04:12 PM 12/30/99 +0001, Hans Franke said something like:
Yes. We know someday in the next century (beginning a _year_ from now ;-)
all TV will be digital and we'll have to use the planned digital to analog
conversion devices to use them. There was absolutely no concept of digital
TV back in the late 40's when a bunch of my sets were made.
Yeah, you're right Hans. What clear-minded person would tinker with a
Barbie doll? :-o
Date sent: Thu, 30 Dec 1999 09:27:10 -0500
Send reply to: classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu
From: Christian Fandt <cfandt(a)netsync.net>
To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers"
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: Question for you 'big iron' collectors
that?! :-)
Upon the date 07:23 AM 12/30/99 -0600, Paul Braun
said something like:
>I've been following the list for about a year and a half now and I'm
>curious -- you guys (both genders) that have the room and the
>know-how to run the big stuff -- what do you do with them? I guess
>I'm not that familiar with non-business apps for minis and I'm just
>curious what someone using a PDP at home would do with it?
> I'm still wondering that myself ;-) "Have the room . . ."? What's
:)) Chritian, you have a wonderfull house ... and still room in
the basement ...
Oh ho ho! Not now fella!!! :-) Thanks for the compliment about the house,
but _a lot_ has been moved into it and the attic from the old house since
you and Christine visited last year. The second garage at the back of the
backyard (garden) is full too (or I should say "too full") and the main
garage at the house still has much of the big DEC gear in it (soon to go to
a new home :-) Nice lab area in the basement now though <g>. Next time you
visit you'll be pleasantly surprised. It's in that dark, dirty open area
you may recall seeing.
And Paul, to get this straight, a PDP isn't realy Big Iron - unless
you name your Palm Pilot a full size server system.
Wel-llll, my 11/34A is in a tall rack and with two RL02's, cables and
accessories it probably weighs in at around 400 lbs (180+ kg). An 11/44 I
understand can be big. Certain PDP-8's too. So it's argueable that some are
'big iron' machines. My 34A is in the basement in the lab area next to its
LA120. OTOH, my MicroPDP setting next to me is only around 75 lbs or so
(~34 kg).
>Do you just write code for the sheer
challenge of writing code?
>Have you written real-world apps? Is it just nostalgia? Or do you
>keep them running purely for historical reasons and don't have any
>practical day-to-day use for them?
Yes.
Historical reasons, Ways to finaly get what you ever dreamed
of (20 years ago) and play around ? Just fun.
>It just fascinates me that there are so many
of you who run these
>beasts and I'd just like to know why.
There are folks who ask me the same thing
regarding my large collection of
early radios and early televisions, some large and heavy. Same answers.
In fact, the situation is very similar - if you ignore this digital
radio and TV chanals you still can use your 30 year old TV set to
see Letterman, with no relevant difference (And when they air
I love Lucy or Flipper, not difference at all:). I guess it follows even for folks collecting beer
cans, comic books,
automobiles, Louis IV furniture, first edition books, War of the Rebellion
(US Civil War) armament, stamps and coins, Barbie dolls, Rosewood China,
Depression and Carnival glassware, Victorian era clothing, etc., etc.,
etc., etc. . . .
Hmm at least for my person there's still a difference - unlike
a lot of collectors in other areas I realy tinker tith my computers. Some owners of 'classic' furniture would rather
go balistic when
you just upt a glass on top.
Instant death comes to the unfortunate soul who dares to do that.
Anyway, Fun Fun Fun.
Oh yeah, _that's_ really why we do this!
Servus
H.
--
Bis spaeter, Chris
-- --
Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian
Jamestown, NY USA cfandt(a)netsync.net
Member of Antique Wireless Association
URL: http://www.antiquewireless.org/
3:52 a.m.
Wel-llll, my 11/34A is in a tall rack and with two
RL02's, cables and
accessories it probably weighs in at around 400 lbs (180+ kg). An 11/44 I
understand can be big. Certain PDP-8's too. So it's argueable that some are
Well, my 11/44 in the garage is two racks, one rack has the CPU, TU58's and
RX02's, the other a pair of RL02's and the terminal distribution panel.
Then there is the racks with the TU81+ and 2 RL01's, 1 RL02, and 2 RA90's
in one of my storage units that go with it.
'big iron' machines. My 34A is in the basement
in the lab area next to its
LA120. OTOH, my MicroPDP setting next to me is only around 75 lbs or so
(~34 kg).
Hmmm, my /73 sitting next to me is housed in a MV2 BA123 with a VT420/LA75
sitting on top of it. Never have gotten the external RX02 cabinet I got
for it hooked up, that might end up on my PDP-8/m though...
As for what do I do with all these? Well, they tend to be more fun that
computer games, though they do take up more room :^( Besides you've not
lived till you've played Pacman under RT-11 :^) Plus I actually like using
the PDP-11/73 running RT-11 for TELNETing into my ISP and reading news.
Also my VMS Cluster takes most of a 6' rack, and another 4' pile on a
typing table (that's without all the VAXen I'm not using at the moment),
and I do actually use the cluster for quite a few things.
Zane
| Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator |
| healyzh(a)aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast |
| healyzh(a)holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
| Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, |
| and Zane's Computer Museum. |
| http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ |
6:47 a.m.
>> I'm still wondering that myself ;-)
"Have the room . . ."? What's
>> that?! :-)
>:)) Chritian, you have a wonderfull house ... and still room in
>the basement ...
Oh ho ho! Not now fella!!! :-) Thanks for the
compliment about the house,
but _a lot_ has been moved into it and the attic from the old house since
you and Christine visited last year. The second garage at the back of the
backyard (garden) is full too (or I should say "too full") and the main
garage at the house still has much of the big DEC gear in it (soon to go to
a new home :-) Nice lab area in the basement now though <g>. Next time you
visit you'll be pleasantly surprised. It's in that dark, dirty open area
you may recall seeing.
Well, yes, I remember - great you had time to finish that.
But ther's for shure some room in the garden ... as I remember
one could build there a nice add on, cover the top with grass,
and nobody will ever notice :)
>And Paul, to get this straight, a PDP isn't
realy Big Iron - unless
>you name your Palm Pilot a full size server system.
Wel-llll, my 11/34A is in a tall rack and with two
RL02's, cables and
accessories it probably weighs in at around 400 lbs (180+ kg). An 11/44 I
understand can be big. Certain PDP-8's too. So it's argueable that some are
'big iron' machines. My 34A is in the basement in the lab area next to its
LA120. OTOH, my MicroPDP setting next to me is only around 75 lbs or so
(~34 kg).
As long as on person can lift the CPU it's not Big Iron. At least
when we go for pre 1990 Machines. Real Big Iron needs a forklift ...
Shure, a simple definition, just I like it.
>> There are folks who ask me the same thing
regarding my large collection of
>> early radios and early televisions, some large and heavy. Same answers.
>In fact, the situation is very similar - if you ignore this digital
>radio and TV chanals you still can use your 30 year old TV set to
>see Letterman, with no relevant difference (And when they air
>I love Lucy or Flipper, not difference at all:).
Yes. We know someday in the next century (beginning a
_year_ from now ;-)
all TV will be digital and we'll have to use the planned digital to analog
conversion devices to use them. There was absolutely no concept of digital
TV back in the late 40's when a bunch of my sets were made.
Starting with wide screen transmission some years ago it already got
hard to have a 60's TV give you the whole movie. And the digital era
is already present - at least some FM stations are up, and digital
satelite and cable chanels are no longer future or testinstallations ...
I feel that we may soon have a situation where the old stuff is just
no longer usable on its own.
Gruss
H.
--
Stimm gegen SPAM: http://www.politik-digital.de/spam/de/
Vote against SPAM: http://www.politik-digital.de/spam/en/
Votez contre le SPAM: http://www.politik-digital.de/spam/fr/
Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut
HRK
8:55 a.m.
Upon the date 08:48 PM 12/30/99 +0001, Hans Franke said something like:
Yes, and I'll have _you_ ask Beverly to allow it ;-)
Hmmm, this is a good definition :-)
Still, the fully loaded BA11 box that my 11/34A is contained within is on
the border of that definition. Some well conditioned, weight lifting
athletic type fellow could easily lift it. Even though my upper body
strength was enhanced a little this Spring during The Great Move, I still
cannot lift it alone except with difficulty. I estimate it weighs around
120+ lbs (55 kg).
The CPU of my IBM 9370 (a 9375-60) weighs around 280 lbs (130 kg) and
_that_ qualifies as big iron :-) even though I *could* have the whole
system in a single tall cabinet similar in size to the single-rack 11/34A.
Even digital AM broadcast is appearing occasionally in North America.
>>
I'm still wondering that myself ;-) "Have the room . . ."? What's
>> that?! :-)
>:)) Chritian, you have a wonderfull house ... and still room in
>the basement ...
Oh ho ho! Not now fella!!! :-) Thanks for the
compliment about the house,
but _a lot_ has been moved into it and the attic from the old house since
you and Christine visited last year. The second garage at the back of the
backyard (garden) is full too (or I should say "too full") and the main
garage at the house still has much of the big DEC gear in it (soon to go to
a new home :-) Nice lab area in the basement now though <g>. Next time you
visit you'll be pleasantly surprised. It's in that dark, dirty open area
you may recall seeing.
Well, yes, I remember - great you had time to finish that.
But ther's for shure some room in the garden ... as I remember
one could build there a nice add on, cover the top with grass,
and nobody will ever notice :) >And Paul, to get this straight, a PDP
isn't realy Big Iron - unless
>you name your Palm Pilot a full size server system.
Wel-llll, my 11/34A is in a tall rack and with
two RL02's, cables and
accessories it probably weighs in at around 400 lbs (180+ kg). An 11/44 I
understand can be big. Certain PDP-8's too. So it's argueable that some are
'big iron' machines. My 34A is in the basement in the lab area next to its
LA120. OTOH, my MicroPDP setting next to me is only around 75 lbs or so
(~34 kg).
As long as on person can lift the CPU it's not Big Iron. At least
when we go for pre 1990 Machines. Real Big Iron needs a forklift ...
Shure, a simple definition, just I like it.
> >> There are folks who ask me the same thing regarding my large
collection of
>> early
radios and early televisions, some large and heavy. Same answers.
>In fact, the situation is very similar - if you ignore this digital
>radio and TV chanals you still can use your 30 year old TV set to
>see Letterman, with no relevant difference (And when they air
>I love Lucy or Flipper, not difference at all:).
Yes. We know someday in the next century
(beginning a _year_ from now ;-)
all TV will be digital and we'll have to use the planned digital to analog
conversion devices to use them. There was absolutely no concept of digital
TV back in the late 40's when a bunch of my sets were made.
Starting with wide screen transmission some years ago it already got
hard to have a 60's TV give you the whole movie. And the digital era
is already present - at least some FM stations are up, and digital
satelite and cable chanels are no longer future or testinstallations ...
I feel that we may soon have a situation where the old stuff is just
no longer usable on its own.
At least virtually all our old computers should work on their own :-)
provided we can still get floppy disks, magnetic tape and other removeable
media for them (if they use it) as that stuff wears out eventually. Should
still be the same 120/240 volt 50/60 Hz mains worldwide.
Regards, Chris
-- --
Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian
Jamestown, NY USA cfandt(a)netsync.net
Member of Antique Wireless Association
URL: http://www.antiquewireless.org/
1:45 a.m.
Do you just write code for the sheer challenge of
writing code?
Have you written real-world apps? Is it just nostalgia? Or do you
keep them running purely for historical reasons and don't have any
practical day-to-day use for them?
Yes to all save for the last bit. Like any computer unless it's broken
there is always a practical day to day use. Even the most limited
machines are useful for teaching computer fundementals or word processing
for examples.
It just fascinates me that there are so many of you
who run these
beasts and I'd just like to know why.
Everest! It's there. Though that is often at best a partial reason.
All too often the assumption is OLD .EQ. USELESS and that is invalid
all too often. My old Z80 crate (northstar* Horizon ca1978) is an
excellent text editing system and also has a potload of really good cross
assemblers for other CPUs some still widely used (8051 series). Not bad
for a 21 year old system.
Allison
5:16 a.m.
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31 Dec
31 Dec
12:55 a.m.
----- Original Message -----
From: Paul Braun <nerdware(a)laidbak.com>
To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
<classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu>
Sent: Thursday, December 30, 1999 8:23 AM
Subject: Question for you 'big iron' collectors
I've been following the list for about a year and
a half now and I'm
curious -- you guys (both genders) that have the room and the
know-how to run the big stuff -- what do you do with them? I guess
I'm not that familiar with non-business apps for minis and I'm just
curious what someone using a PDP at home would do with it?
Point of order here. Minicomputers can only be called "big iron" when
compared to microcomputers. As a mainframe enthusiast big iron intuitively
refers to IBM 360/370-type computers.
This is not being pedantic. It is being precise. Some subscribers to this
list have never seen a real mainframe, but that doesn't mean mainframes
never existed. Nor does it permit us to ignore them.
For this one time it's OK to refer to minicomputers as big iron - note I am
joking- but seriously folks, we must expand our knowledge of that which we
collect. First there were mainframes, then minicomputers, and then
microcomputers.
And now back to the original purpose of the thread.
Yours in good faith.
8892
days inactive
8892
days old
9 comments
7 participants
participants (7)
-
allisonp＠world.std.com -
ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk -
cfandt＠netsync.net -
Hans.Franke＠mch20.sbs.de -
healyzh＠aracnet.com -
kstumpf＠unusual.on.ca -
nerdware＠laidbak.com