21 Jul
2003
21 Jul
'03
5:53 p.m.
Anybody familar with a "Technical magic 8S" card? I found several of
them in a DEC system. They're double width cards and have eight AMI S1602P
LSI ICs on them. Chip Directory says that the 1602s are UARTs.
Joe
21 Jul
21 Jul
7:35 p.m.
On Mon, 21 Jul 2003, Joe wrote:
Anybody familar with a "Technical magic
8S" card? I found several of
them in a DEC system. They're double width cards and have eight AMI S1602P
LSI ICs on them. Chip Directory says that the 1602s are UARTs.
Most probably
DZ(V)-11 clone cards, or, 8-port async serial cards,
with or without modem control.
--f
8:58 p.m.
New subject: Token ring (UK)
Am clearing out my garage to make space for a PDP 11/34.
Is there any interest at all in a fair-sized pile of token ring stuff - some
4MHz, some 4/16MHz (cards [inc unused PCMCIA], cables, MAUs etc) or should
it all go to the dump.
eBay prices appear to be too low to be worth the bother.
I suspect that thge only people who might be interested in collecting TR
have already been able to pick up as much as they want.
This is in Rayleigh, Essex (England)
Andy
9:05 p.m.
New subject: Token ring (UK)
I have a box full of token-ring adapters, IBM new in the box, and can't
find a nibble here in the States. I've been told that token ring
netowrking is an IBM only system, and requies an IBM server to play.
Guess that's why everyone went to Ethernet.
Gary Hildebrand
St. Joseph, MO
Am clearing out my garage to make space for a PDP
11/34.
Is there any interest at all in a fair-sized pile of token ring stuff -
some
4MHz, some 4/16MHz (cards [inc unused PCMCIA], cables, MAUs etc) or should
it all go to the dump.
eBay prices appear to be too low to be worth the bother.
I suspect that thge only people who might be interested in collecting TR
have already been able to pick up as much as they want.
This is in Rayleigh, Essex (England)
Andy
9:24 p.m.
New subject: Token ring (UK)
On Tue, 22 Jul 2003 ghldbrd(a)ccp.com wrote:
I have a box full of token-ring adapters, IBM new in
the box, and can't
find a nibble here in the States. I've been told that token ring
netowrking is an IBM only system, and requies an IBM server to play.
Nah. Although
they ended up being the only ones still holding on to
it, TR was, at one point, a fairly widely-used topology, especially
in areas where network delay was an issue. 4Mbps TR was faster than
10Mbps Ethernet, when under heavy load, simply because TR avoids the
collapsing of throughput when the number of collisions goes up (on
Ethernet).
Still.. TR was expensive as hell, and cabling was same. NIC vendors
were not abundant (IBM, Madge, 3Com and Compaq come to mind) so those
were expensive, too.
But... TR was good stuff, just expensive, which eventually made it
exotic...
--f
22 Jul
22 Jul
6:19 a.m.
New subject: Token ring (UK)
I worked for a now defunct web company (aren't they all :) which did a lot
of work for a large car company. They dumped their former web hosting
conglomerate (amazingly still in business) for IBM. One of our IT guys had
to go down to make sure the web site we were programming would install onto
IBM's application servers, so he had to go down to their gigantic server
farm in, I think, North Carolina. They told him to bring a token ring card,
cause *everything* at the server farm was token ring. Wanna take a guess how
much an IBM branded PCMCIA gigabit-token ring card goes for? :)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Fred N. van Kempen" <waltje(a)pdp11.nl>
To: <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org>
Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2003 2:20 AM
Subject: Re: Token ring (UK)
On Tue, 22 Jul 2003 ghldbrd(a)ccp.com wrote:
I have a box full of token-ring adapters, IBM new
in the box, and can't
find a nibble here in the States. I've been told that token ring
netowrking is an IBM only system, and requies an IBM server to play.
Nah.
Although they ended up being the only ones still holding on to
it, TR was, at one point, a fairly widely-used topology, especially
in areas where network delay was an issue. 4Mbps TR was faster than
10Mbps Ethernet, when under heavy load, simply because TR avoids the
collapsing of throughput when the number of collisions goes up (on
Ethernet).
Still.. TR was expensive as hell, and cabling was same. NIC vendors
were not abundant (IBM, Madge, 3Com and Compaq come to mind) so those
were expensive, too.
But... TR was good stuff, just expensive, which eventually made it
exotic...
--f 
2:37 p.m.
New subject: Token ring (UK)
On Tue, 22 Jul 2003 ghldbrd(a)ccp.com wrote:
I have a box full of token-ring adapters, IBM new in
the box, and can't
find a nibble here in the States. I've been told that token ring
netowrking is an IBM only system, and requies an IBM server to play.
Token-Ring seems to have originated with IBM, but it's not true that you
need an IBM server. We used to use it with HP, IBM, Compaq, and some
home-grown boxes. There were several 3rd-party manufacturers of
token-ring equipment, but I think about the only one left these days is
Madge (www.madge.com) and they're moving rapidly to ethernet...
5:52 p.m.
New subject: Token ring (UK)
On Tue, 22 Jul 2003, Bill Richman wrote:
What about Thomas-Conrad?
Peace... Sridhar
I have a box
full of token-ring adapters, IBM new in the box, and
can't find a nibble here in the States. I've been told that token
ring netowrking is an IBM only system, and requies an IBM server to
play.
Token-Ring seems to have originated with IBM, but it's not true that you
need an IBM server. We used to use it with HP, IBM, Compaq, and some
home-grown boxes. There were several 3rd-party manufacturers of
token-ring equipment, but I think about the only one left these days is
Madge (www.madge.com) and they're moving rapidly to ethernet...
5:30 p.m.
New subject: Token ring (UK)
On Tue, 22 Jul 2003 ghldbrd(a)ccp.com wrote:
I have a box full of token-ring adapters, IBM new in
the box, and can't
find a nibble here in the States. I've been told that token ring
netowrking is an IBM only system, and requies an IBM server to play.
Nosiree. Any PC, any RS/6000, really, any machine with PCI can do token
ring.
Guess that's why everyone went to Ethernet.
No, that was because of marketing stuff. 16Mbps TR is significantly
faster than 10Mbps ethernet. It has a very large MTU/MRU.
Peace... Sridhar
> Am clearing out my garage to make space for a PDP
11/34.
> Is there any interest at all in a fair-sized pile of token ring stuff -
> some
> 4MHz, some 4/16MHz (cards [inc unused PCMCIA], cables, MAUs etc) or should
> it all go to the dump.
> eBay prices appear to be too low to be worth the bother.
> I suspect that thge only people who might be interested in collecting TR
> have already been able to pick up as much as they want.
>
> This is in Rayleigh, Essex (England)
>
> Andy
6:12 p.m.
New subject: Token ring (UK)
No, You can use a Novell server with Token-Ring and even route between
machines
on Token-Ring and Ethernet. I don't know if there are any TCP/ IP over
Token Ring solutions
though.
On Monday, July 21, 2003, at 10:54 PM, ghldbrd(a)ccp.com wrote:
I have a box full of token-ring adapters, IBM new in
the box, and can't
find a nibble here in the States. I've been told that token ring
netowrking is an IBM only system, and requies an IBM server to play.
Guess that's why everyone went to Ethernet.
Gary Hildebrand
St. Joseph, MO
> Am clearing out my garage to make space for a PDP 11/34.
> Is there any interest at all in a fair-sized pile of token ring stuff
> -
> some
> 4MHz, some 4/16MHz (cards [inc unused PCMCIA], cables, MAUs etc) or
> should
> it all go to the dump.
> eBay prices appear to be too low to be worth the bother.
> I suspect that thge only people who might be interested in collecting
> TR
> have already been able to pick up as much as they want.
>
> This is in Rayleigh, Essex (England)
>
> Andy
7:58 p.m.
New subject: Token ring (UK)
There are more TCP/IP over TP products than I can even count.
Peace... Sridhar
On Tue, 22 Jul 2003, Ron Hudson wrote:
No, You can use a Novell server with Token-Ring and
even route between
machines
on Token-Ring and Ethernet. I don't know if there are any TCP/ IP over
Token Ring solutions
though.
On Monday, July 21, 2003, at 10:54 PM, ghldbrd(a)ccp.com wrote:
> I have a box full of token-ring adapters, IBM new in the box, and can't
> find a nibble here in the States. I've been told that token ring
> netowrking is an IBM only system, and requies an IBM server to play.
>
> Guess that's why everyone went to Ethernet.
>
> Gary Hildebrand
> St. Joseph, MO
>
>
>> Am clearing out my garage to make space for a PDP 11/34.
>> Is there any interest at all in a fair-sized pile of token ring stuff
>> -
>> some
>> 4MHz, some 4/16MHz (cards [inc unused PCMCIA], cables, MAUs etc) or
>> should
>> it all go to the dump.
>> eBay prices appear to be too low to be worth the bother.
>> I suspect that thge only people who might be interested in collecting
>> TR
>> have already been able to pick up as much as they want.
>>
>> This is in Rayleigh, Essex (England)
>>
>> Andy
11:23 p.m.
New subject: Token ring (UK)
On Tue, 22 Jul 2003, Ron Hudson wrote:
No, You can use a Novell server with Token-Ring and
even route between
machines on Token-Ring and Ethernet. I don't know if there are any
TCP/IP over Token Ring solutions though.
Yes, IP is quite happy to run over TR.
Not all drivers did this
well, but the brand cards had no problems. I managed a customer's
network for a long time, and that network had two segments: one
with standard ethernet (office network), and the other was TR,
down in the production hall, where all the printing systems and
paper cutting machines were driven. Those were much happier with
the TR network than they were (before) with Ethernet. I had a
Cisco 2513 router (Eth <-> TR) inbetween them, although this
could also have been a machine with two NICs, obviously.
--fred
23 Jul
23 Jul
3:04 p.m.
New subject: Token ring (UK)
We've been running IP over token-ring for years. Last year, we upgraded
all our machines (200 of them) and in the process replaced almost all of
our token-ring hubs with ethernet switches, and our TR nics with ethernet
cards. We have a few old servers and some specialized machines that are
still on TR; we have a Madge "Smart RingSwitch" with both token-ring and
ethernet modules in it; it routes at the MAC layer, and seems to work
great.
On Tue, 22 Jul 2003, Ron Hudson wrote:
No, You can use a Novell server with Token-Ring and
even route between
machines
on Token-Ring and Ethernet. I don't know if there are any TCP/ IP over
Token Ring solutions
though.
On Monday, July 21, 2003, at 10:54 PM, ghldbrd(a)ccp.com wrote:
> I have a box full of token-ring adapters, IBM new in the box, and can't
> find a nibble here in the States. I've been told that token ring
> netowrking is an IBM only system, and requies an IBM server to play.
>
> Guess that's why everyone went to Ethernet.
>
> Gary Hildebrand
> St. Joseph, MO
>
>
>> Am clearing out my garage to make space for a PDP 11/34.
>> Is there any interest at all in a fair-sized pile of token ring stuff
>> -
>> some
>> 4MHz, some 4/16MHz (cards [inc unused PCMCIA], cables, MAUs etc) or
>> should
>> it all go to the dump.
>> eBay prices appear to be too low to be worth the bother.
>> I suspect that thge only people who might be interested in collecting
>> TR
>> have already been able to pick up as much as they want.
>>
>> This is in Rayleigh, Essex (England)
>>
>> Andy
5:46 p.m.
New subject: Token ring (UK)
On Wed, 23 Jul 2003, Bill Richman wrote:
We've been running IP over token-ring for years.
Last year, we upgraded
all our machines (200 of them) and in the process replaced almost all of
our token-ring hubs with ethernet switches, and our TR nics with
ethernet cards. We have a few old servers and some specialized machines
that are still on TR; we have a Madge "Smart RingSwitch" with both
token-ring and ethernet modules in it; it routes at the MAC layer, and
seems to work great.
You downgraded to Ethernet, huh? Token Ring runs 2Gbps already.
Peace... Sridhar
26 Jul
26 Jul
3:25 p.m.
New subject: Token ring (UK)
Yeah - but just go out and try to find a PC motherboard with built-in
token-ring nic, or a NAS box that supports TR, or one of the
multi-function printer/copier/scanner appliances... Not to mention the
rather obscene cost of TR nics and hubs/switches. 100Mb ethernet to the
desktop with a switched connection to the server for each workstation
seems to be working just fine, thanks.
On Wed, 23 Jul 2003 vance(a)neurotica.com wrote:
On Wed, 23 Jul 2003, Bill Richman wrote:
We've been running IP over token-ring for
years. Last year, we upgraded
all our machines (200 of them) and in the process replaced almost all of
our token-ring hubs with ethernet switches, and our TR nics with
ethernet cards. We have a few old servers and some specialized machines
that are still on TR; we have a Madge "Smart RingSwitch" with both
token-ring and ethernet modules in it; it routes at the MAC layer, and
seems to work great.
You downgraded to Ethernet, huh? Token Ring runs 2Gbps already.
Peace... Sridhar
22 Jul
22 Jul
2:36 p.m.
New subject: Token ring (UK)
We've got a bunch of it at work, too. Probably 200 cards (mixed ISA &
PCI), several Madge "Smart" CAUs, LAMs, and RAMs, and a boatload of patch
cables, pigtails, and patch panels for IBM Type 1 cabling (STP). Anybody
know where we could unload it and maybe get a few bucks for it? At least
enough to cover shipping it?
On Tue, 22 Jul 2003, Andy Holt wrote:
Am clearing out my garage to make space for a PDP
11/34.
Is there any interest at all in a fair-sized pile of token ring stuff - some
4MHz, some 4/16MHz (cards [inc unused PCMCIA], cables, MAUs etc) or should
it all go to the dump.
eBay prices appear to be too low to be worth the bother.
I suspect that thge only people who might be interested in collecting TR
have already been able to pick up as much as they want.
This is in Rayleigh, Essex (England)
Andy
26 Jul
26 Jul
3:29 p.m.
New subject: Token ring (UK)
If anyone in the UK wants a 10-port (8 user plus Ring In/Ring Out) MAU
you can have it free, if you pay postage. It is type 1 however it has
the baluns for use with RJ45 cabling. It is an IBM 8228.
F
Andy Holt wrote:
Am clearing out my garage to make space for a PDP
11/34.
Is there any interest at all in a fair-sized pile of token ring stuff - some
4MHz, some 4/16MHz (cards [inc unused PCMCIA], cables, MAUs etc) or should
it all go to the dump.
eBay prices appear to be too low to be worth the bother.
I suspect that thge only people who might be interested in collecting TR
have already been able to pick up as much as they want.
This is in Rayleigh, Essex (England)
Andy
22 Jul
22 Jul
1:59 p.m.
Anybody familar with a "Technical magic
8S" card? I found several of
them in a DEC system. They're double width cards and have eight AMI S1602P
LSI ICs on them. Chip Directory says that the 1602s are UARTs.
Presunmmbly it's an 8 channel serial card (the name '8S' would also
suggest this).
It'll either be an octal DLV11 (Systime certainly made a Unibus octal
DL11) or an 8 channel version of the DZV11. The former would have all 8
ports at distinct addresses, the latter is what DEC call a 'multiplexer'
and has all 8 ports sharing a relatively small number of addresses.
-tony
7664
days inactive
7669
days old
17 comments
10 participants
participants (10)
-
andyh＠andyh-rayleigh.freeserve.co.uk -
ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk -
bill＠timeguy.com -
classicmp＠hexamon.org -
ghldbrd＠ccp.com -
jbmcb＠hotmail.com -
rhudson＠cnonline.net -
rigdonj＠cfl.rr.com -
vance＠neurotica.com -
waltje＠pdp11.nl