21 Mar
1997
21 Mar
'97
12:51 p.m.
On Fri, 21 Mar 1997 17:54:15 -0500, "Captain Napalm" uttered:
but you might want to add an availability field [for
(in the good
Captain's case, microcomputers)], something like:
Limited - only a single run ever made, and then, not
very
many.
How about some of the rarer minicomputers that were made in the '60s?
Beasts like the LINC-8 (of which there were only 142 built) or Packard
Bell equipment from the very early sixties count here. PDP-1.
Rare - Only made for a year or so.
I'd put into this category the Classic DEC PDP-8, and orginal Data
General Novas. PDP-12s might go here (production run of ~1000).
Uncommon - the less popular machines of an era.
I'm speculating at this point, but I'd tend to lump Prime equipment
and Interdata gear in this one. You can find them, but it's a lucky
find. Later Novas and Eclipses might fit here.
Common - Fairly easy to find.
DEC pdp11 gear fits, for the most part here, although a case can be
made for the 11/20 to fall into the "uncommon" classification. This
class is especially appropriate for early- to mid- life 11s.
Abundant - the era of the PClone. Can't go to a
thrift
store, auction, ham fest, etc without finding
hundreds if not thousands of old units.
This is a level of concentration that you'll never find with mini-
computers. In this class, I'd tend to place late-life-cycle pdp11s,
like the 11/84 and up, and various classes of small VAXen. Note that
in many cases these machines are still performing their assigned
tasks and may not be de-commissioned for several years to come.
I hate to flog a horse that's weak, but there is more to computing
life than microprocessors. Whilst I don't disagree that the micro-
based machines should be preserved (they should), I hope that folks,
through their study of machines' history, become aware of what is
now _distant_ history, even though it only happened 25-35 years ago.
Bitmapped displays and typewriter keyboards are nice, but it's also
good to sit in front of the blinking lights and work switches to
program the machine.
______________________________________________________________________
| | |
| Carl Richard Friend (UNIX Sysadmin) | West Boylston |
| Minicomputer Collector / Enthusiast | Massachusetts, USA |
| mailto:carl.friend@stoneweb.com | |
| http://www.ultranet.com/~engelbrt/carl/museum | ICBM: N42:22 W71:47 |
|________________________________________________|_____________________|
21 Mar
21 Mar
1:56 p.m.
On Fri, 21 Mar 1997, Carl R. Friend wrote:
On Fri, 21 Mar 1997 17:54:15 -0500, "Captain
Napalm" uttered:
Well, heck, Carl - stick them in then! Hell-o I have a PDP-11/23!
And I'm writing the list! I just don't have the memory any more
(my neurons are failing faster than my MSV11-DBs!)
BC
but you might want to add an availability field
[for (in the good
Captain's case, microcomputers)], something like:
How about some of the rarer minicomputers that were made in the '60s?
Beasts like the LINC-8 (of which there were only 142 built) or Packard
Bell equipment from the very early sixties count here. PDP-1. 
23 Mar
23 Mar
2:15 a.m.
On Fri, 21 Mar 1997 17:54:15 -0500, "Captain Napalm" uttered:
What about machines built at prototypes only (PERQ 2T4, PERQ3A, Tiger?
Tandy Deluxe Coco, etc). Some of those are very difficult to find.
but you might want to add an availability field
[for (in the good
Captain's case, microcomputers)], something like:
Limited - only a single run ever made, and then,
not very
many.
How about some of the rarer minicomputers that were made in the '60s?
Beasts like the LINC-8 (of which there were only 142 built) or Packard
Bell equipment from the very early sixties count here. PDP-1. Common -
Fairly easy to find.
DEC pdp11 gear fits, for the most part here, although a case can be
I hate to flog a horse that's weak, but there is more to computing
life than microprocessors. Whilst I don't disagree that the micro-
based machines should be preserved (they should), I hope that folks,
Absolutely. It never fails to amaze me that some 1980's home micros
(particularly Sinclar ZX80's, ZX81's, etc and Commodore 64's) still fetch
quite high prices second-hand, while I am often _given_ minicomputer
equipment.
If you have the space to run one (and it's not that much, actually), then
a minicomputer is a very nice thing to have in a collection. You can learn
a lot about the operation of a digital computer by taking one of the
simpler minicomputers (I would not recomend starting with a PDP11/45, even
though I did!) and figuring out exactly how it works. You can watch the
control signals using almost any 'scope, particularly if you slow down the
clock a bit.
through their study of machines' history, become
aware of what is
now _distant_ history, even though it only happened 25-35 years ago.
Bitmapped displays and typewriter keyboards are nice, but it's also
The PERQ (sorry to keep on mentioning what I consider to be one of the
finest machines ever made) has a minicomputer-like CPU (260+ chips, 74S181
ALUs, 2910 sequencer, etc) that you can get amongst together with a hi-res
bitmapped display.
| Carl Richard Friend (UNIX Sysadmin) |
West Boylston |
--
-tony
ard12(a)eng.cam.ac.uk
The gates in my computer are AND,OR and NOT, not Bill
24 Mar
24 Mar
1:30 a.m.
It was thus said that the Great A.R. Duell once stated:
Sound limited to me 8-)
At the auction I attended recently, Two large (and I mean physically
large) VAX systems were sold for $50 (for the two of them). If #431 [1]
wasn't bidding, it might have been fun to get them.
But then again, how would I get a one ton machine (not that I know that it
weighs that much, but it was huge) home? Where do I get three phase 220
power? Even though my office is the Cold Room [2] where I work, we don't
have the room or the power to run those things.
Shame really.
On Fri, 21 Mar 1997 17:54:15 -0500,
"Captain Napalm" uttered:
What about machines built at prototypes only (PERQ 2T4, PERQ3A, Tiger?
Tandy Deluxe Coco, etc). Some of those are very difficult to find. Limited - only a single run ever made, and then,
not very
many.
How about some of the rarer minicomputers that were made in the '60s?
Beasts like the LINC-8 (of which there were only 142 built) or Packard
Bell equipment from the very early sixties count here. PDP-1. I hate to
flog a horse that's weak, but there is more to computing
life than microprocessors. Whilst I don't disagree that the micro-
based machines should be preserved (they should), I hope that folks,
Absolutely. It never fails to amaze me that some 1980's home micros
(particularly Sinclar ZX80's, ZX81's, etc and Commodore 64's) still fetch
quite high prices second-hand, while I am often _given_ minicomputer
equipment. The PERQ (sorry to keep on mentioning what I consider
to be one of the
finest machines ever made) has a minicomputer-like CPU (260+ chips, 74S181
ALUs, 2910 sequencer, etc) that you can get amongst together with a hi-res
bitmapped display.
Now that's a machine I wouldn't mind owning.
-spc (Anyone know anything about DEC VT320s?)
[1] Who bidded (and often outbid) on just about every lot in the
auction, and seemed not to care what he got or even interested
in what we has bidding for. Grrrrrrrr.
[2] In name only. It's the largest office actually, with two A/C
vents, and were all our companies servers are. I'm not the
sysadmin (at least, I don't want to be) though my partners
haven't realized that yet [3].
[3] Oh, this ISN'T alt.sysadmin.recovery? Sorry.
1:50 a.m.
On Mon, 24 Mar 1997, Captain Napalm wrote:
At the auction I attended recently, Two large (and I
mean physically
large) VAX systems were sold for $50 (for the two of them). If #431 [1]
wasn't bidding, it might have been fun to get them.
Don't ya just severely dislike (PC tm. scan: "hate" rejected) people like
that? I see those type around here as well.
But then again, how would I get a one ton machine
(not that I know that it
weighs that much, but it was huge) home?
A flat-bed utility trailer and a heavy chain come-along does wonders.
BTW: I think the 'book' weight on the 11/780 in my collection is 1150 lbs.
Where do I get three phase 220 power?
Don't need it. All of the DEC gear I've ever seen seems to use the three
phase setup as much for convienence as anything. Once you get past the
power controller (relay box), all of the actual power supplies are 117VAC
single phase. (and have 'normal' three prong plugs going into the power
controller)
If you like the power controllers, takes about one hour to rework it for
220VAC single phase, or just skip it altogether. (tho, then you have to go
through the power sequencing manually B^} )
-spc (Anyone know anything about DEC VT320s?)
Like???
-jim
---
jimw(a)agora.rdrop.com
The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw
Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174
2:01 a.m.
It was thus said that the Great James Willing once stated:
I'm sure the neighbors would live that 8-)
Did I mention I live in a condo? Fortunately, it's on the first floor,
but still ...
Oh. I'm a software guy. While I could probably do it, I'd be nervous
about it. And while Florida Flicker and Flash would love for me to power
those things, I'm not sure my wallet would.
Anything? The serial connection isn't like anything I've seen. Looks
like a telephone jack, but six wires instead of four, and the latch thing
seems off center. I'd like to use it, as it seems to work great. But I
can't hook it up to anything.
-spc (Sigh. So many computers, so little time ... )
But then again, how would I get a one ton
machine (not that I know that it
weighs that much, but it was huge) home?
A flat-bed utility trailer and a heavy chain come-along does wonders.
BTW: I think the 'book' weight on the 11/780 in my collection is 1150 lbs.
Where do I get
three phase 220 power?
Don't need it. All of the DEC gear I've ever seen seems to use the three
phase setup as much for convienence as anything. Once you get past the
power controller (relay box), all of the actual power supplies are 117VAC
single phase. (and have 'normal' three prong plugs going into the power
controller)
If you like the power controllers, takes about one hour to rework it for
220VAC single phase, or just skip it altogether. (tho, then you have to go
through the power sequencing manually B^} ) -spc (Anyone
know anything about DEC VT320s?)
Like???
3:04 a.m.
[Vaxen]
But then again, how would I get a one ton machine
(not that I know that it
weighs that much, but it was huge) home? Where do I get three phase 220
Err... In bits???
Seriously, a lot of larger machines split up into liftable modules quite
easily. I'd never think of moving one in one piece, but half an hour with
a screwdriver can make the job a lot easier. A few points if you do this :
Label anything that's not obvious - cable connections, PSU terminals,
board positions, etc. I normally number the card cages in some order, and
stick labels on them carrying that number. I then number the slots in each
cage, if possible, following the manufacturers convention but if not,
I mark slot 1 in each cage. I then label the boards with things like 5/23
or 1/27 (meaning slot 23 in cage 5, etc)
Boards are suprisingly heavy, and it's often worth emptying the cardcage.
The empty cardcages are often quite light.
Oh, make sure the person giving you the machine is expecting you to
dismantle it. They often do - I've been offered the use of toolkits, etc
(although I always bring my own tools if possible). Once they got rather
annoyed with me for pulling covers, etc (they just wanted me to pick up
the machine and leave), but I wasn't going to move a Shugart SA4000
winchester without fitting the headclamps no matter what they thought ;-)
power? Even though my office is the Cold Room [2]
where I work, we don't
have the room or the power to run those things.
The power isn't that much of a problem. With the exception of large disk
drives (which may have 3 phase motors), almost all this stuff _can_ be
kludged to run off a single-phase line.
[PERQs]
Now that's a machine I wouldn't mind owning.
They're not _that_ hard to find, although they may be more common in the
UK than the States (A lot were sold by ICL to UK Universities). Keep on
looking, and one will turn up.
-spc (Anyone know anything about DEC VT320s?)
What about them? They eat flyback transformers....
--
-tony
ard12(a)eng.cam.ac.uk
The gates in my computer are AND,OR and NOT, not Bill
1:21 p.m.
I am a little confused here...
I assume that the availability field of this listing would be for
collectors today, not original users years back. The two interpretations
have profound differences.
For example, IBM 360 and 370 mainframes were made in quite large
quantities, but very few exist today. One could list them as Uncommon or
Rare (probably very rare!).
Likewise, NeXT cubes were never made in huge numbers, but getting one
is not very hard.
Also, I think the Limited field really is more like "Very Rare". There is
a difference between those machines really made to a limited quantity (a
known production run), and those that tried to make it big, like failed
prototypes.
Perhaps the "Limited" flag should be listed in the machine description,
like a note.
William Donzelli
william(a)ans.net
10135
days inactive
10138
days old
7 comments
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ard12＠eng.cam.ac.uk -
carl.friend＠stoneweb.com -
danjo＠xnet.com -
jimw＠agora.rdrop.com -
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william＠ans.net