23 Apr
2004
23 Apr
'04
7:16 p.m.
Hi guys,
Does HP 64000 have a build in HD? If I don't have
the floppy disks, can I boot it? Also, where can I
find the softwhere for the 80186 emulator that comes
with it? Thanks. It is bulky.
vax, 3900
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23 Apr
23 Apr
8:05 p.m.
There was a prototype of the 64000 with a 5MB
hard drive, but I don't know if it was ever
produced.
The original 64000 benchtops had a tape drive
(DC100? DC300? Can't remember, IIRC it was the
same drive used in the 26xx terminals, but a
different data format on the tape, of course :-)
and a later option had two 5.25 floppy drives in
place of the tape drive.
The whole idea was to put several 64000s on
one "large" disk drive using the HP-IB port on
the back. The resulting arrangement was called
a "cluster" in the HP manuals. You could also hook
up a standard HP-IB printer to the cluster...
I seem to remember some mumbo-jumbo where the
disc had to be HP-IB ID 0 and the printer ID 1,
but that may have just been the early devices.
We used 7920s (50MB) and 7925s (125MB) until the
winchester types were available (7914, etc.) The
64000s would boot from the common disk. You might
be able to locate some of those around... 7906 with
the HP-IB option should also work, but you would
probably have better luck locating a CS-80 drive
like a 7912/7914/etc.
If it has floppies (like the "portable" version) you
can boot it from floppy, if you have them... The ones
for the portable unit should boot in a crock. (You
could also put the "portable" (dragable?) unit on
a benchtop cluster and it would boot from the cluster
if there wasn't a boot floppy in the drive.)
Actually, you need the base OS to boot the unit and
the 80186 emulator code. Surely someone on this list
has the system tapes for a 64000 laying around...
Good luck...
Bill
SHAUN RIPLEY wrote:
Hi guys,
Does HP 64000 have a build in HD? If I don't have
the floppy disks, can I boot it? Also, where can I
find the softwhere for the 80186 emulator that comes
with it? Thanks. It is bulky.
vax, 3900
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Photos: High-quality 4x6 digital prints for 25?
http://photos.yahoo.com/ph/print_splash
24 Apr
24 Apr
3:20 a.m.
At 11:05 PM 4/23/04 -0600, you wrote:
There was a prototype of the 64000 with a 5MB
hard drive, but I don't know if it was ever
produced.
The original 64000 benchtops had a tape drive
(DC100? DC300?
I want to say DC300 but I'm not sure, it's been a long time. However
it's the same tapes that are used in the HP-85s. Check the archives, they
have been plenty of discussions about HP-85 tapes and drives. Don't waste
your time or money on old HP tapes, they're ALL bad. Take my word for it!!!
You can use the old DC 2(something) 40 Mb tapes that were used for backups
in PCs. The DEC CompacTape will also work. The tapes will have to
formatted. I'm not sure if the 64000 can do that or not but the HP-85 and
9825 can so I suspect the 64000 can too.
Can't remember, IIRC it was the
same drive used in the 26xx terminals, but a
different data format on the tape, of course :-)
and a later option had two 5.25 floppy drives in
place of the tape drive.
The ones that I've seen with the tape drives are marked 64000. The ones
with the two floppy disks were marked 64100 and the large "portable" one
were marked 64110. The portable version is built like an oversize (and
overweight!) Kaypro.
The whole idea was to put several 64000s on
one "large" disk drive using the HP-IB port on
the back. The resulting arrangement was called
a "cluster" in the HP manuals.
I've seen that shown in some of the manuals but I suspect that they
would require the use of some kind of SRM (Shared Resource Manager) software.
You could also hook
up a standard HP-IB printer to the cluster...
I seem to remember some mumbo-jumbo where the
disc had to be HP-IB ID 0 and the printer ID 1,
but that may have just been the early devices.
We used 7920s (50MB) and 7925s (125MB) until the
winchester types were available (7914, etc.) The
64000s would boot from the common disk. You might
be able to locate some of those around... 7906 with
the HP-IB option should also work, but you would
probably have better luck locating a CS-80 drive
like a 7912/7914/etc.
You'd have a lot better luck finding a 7957, 7958 or 7959. They're a lot
smaller, newer and more reliable. I've NEVER found one of the large 79xx
drives that was still working. The 7957, 7958 and 7959 are roughly 80 Mb,
150 Mb and 300 Mb capacity. If you only need 15, 20 or 40 Mb then you can
probably use a 9133, 9134, 9153 or something of that type. 20 Mb doesn't
sound like much but it's more than enough for most of the old HP computers.
I have a 80 Mb 7958 attached to my HP Integral and I've installed every
piece of software that was ever available for the IPC and I've only used a
fraction of the drive.
Hint. If you're considering the purchase of any of these HP drives, plug
it in first and power it up without connecting it to a system. The newer
ones have built-in self test and thry will run for about a minute and test
the drive. If the fault light comes on and stays on then the drive is bad
so don't buy it. Some of the early ones have a 2 character display on the
back. If they pass selftest it will show P and the HP-IB code (2 for
example). If they say F something then they failed self test. ALSO on some
(or all?) models powering them up >>with no system attached<< will cause
them to park the heads. That's another reason that I always power them up
before purchasing and moving them.
One more thing! If you get involved with any of the 3.5" floppy drives
be warned that the double sided drive have a bad tendency to get gummy and
not open completely. When that happens, the top head will catch on the disk
when you try to insert or remove it. That will ruin both the head and disk.
Check these carefully BEFORE even putting a disk in them. The good news is
that all you need to do to fix the problem is to clean the old grease off
the drive and relubricate it. Check the archives for more information.
If it has floppies (like the "portable" version) you
can boot it from floppy, if you have them... The ones
for the portable unit should boot in a crock. (You
could also put the "portable" (dragable?) unit on
a benchtop cluster and it would boot from the cluster
if there wasn't a boot floppy in the drive.)
Actually, you need the base OS to boot the unit and
the 80186 emulator code. Surely someone on this list
has the system tapes for a 64000 laying around...
I believe I gave some to Frank a couple of years ago but the biggest
problem is going to be finding a good tape drive. If somebody is serious
about these they should fix one of the tape drives then connect a external
floppy drive and dump the tapes to a^H MULTIPLE floppy disk. That's what
I've been wanting to do with the HP-85 and HP 9825 software. The tape drive
isn't exactly the same as that used in the HP-85 and other calculators. It
is the same as that used in some of HP Spectrum Analyzers and other test
equipment. But it's similar enough that you can follow the instructions for
fixing a HP-85 tape dirve. Those have been published here on the list
several times and should be available in the archives. The main things that
you need to watch are to get the roller the right size and close to being
round.
Joe
Good luck...
Bill
SHAUN RIPLEY wrote:
Hi guys,
Does HP 64000 have a build in HD? If I don't have
the floppy disks, can I boot it? Also, where can I
find the softwhere for the 80186 emulator that comes
with it? Thanks. It is bulky.
vax, 3900
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Photos: High-quality 4x6 digital prints for 25?
http://photos.yahoo.com/ph/print_splash
10:03 a.m.
Joe R. wrote:
No extra software needed, as the system tape software would
load onto the cluster drive, and all the crocks would share
the one disk, both for file storage and to boot the the OS...
The ones that I've seen with the tape drives are marked 64000. The ones
with the two floppy disks were marked 64100 and the large "portable" one
were marked 64110. The portable version is built like an oversize (and
overweight!) Kaypro.
Thanks for the clarification. We always called the benchtop units
"crocks" and the "portable" ones Orions, and I didn't pay too
much
attention to the part numbers...
(Bill
McDermith)
The whole idea was to put several 64000s on
one "large" disk drive using the HP-IB port on
the back. The resulting arrangement was called
a "cluster" in the HP manuals.
I've seen that shown in some of the manuals but I suspect that they
would require the use of some kind of SRM (Shared Resource Manager) software. You'd have a lot better luck finding a 7957,
7958 or 7959. They're a lot
smaller, newer and more reliable. I've NEVER found one of the large 79xx
drives that was still working. The 7957, 7958 and 7959 are roughly 80 Mb,
150 Mb and 300 Mb capacity. If you only need 15, 20 or 40 Mb then you can
probably use a 9133, 9134, 9153 or something of that type. 20 Mb doesn't
sound like much but it's more than enough for most of the old HP computers.
I have a 80 Mb 7958 attached to my HP Integral and I've installed every
piece of software that was ever available for the IPC and I've only used a
fraction of the drive.
You're correct, I did find a 7957 on e-bay not long ago. I would be
surprised if you could find a 7920/25 cheaply, though it seems that
some of the HP houses that handle 1000 series CPUs also have some
of these around for a small fortune... You're also right about the
software size; once the system was loaded a 7920 had tons of room
left for development files. I know that early on the 91xx drives
didn't work, but there may have been later mods to the 64000 to
allow them.
Hint. If you're considering the purchase of any of these HP drives, plug
it in first and power it up without connecting it to a system. The newer
ones have built-in self test and thry will run for about a minute and test
the drive. If the fault light comes on and stays on then the drive is bad
so don't buy it. Some of the early ones have a 2 character display on the
back. If they pass selftest it will show P and the HP-IB code (2 for
example). If they say F something then they failed self test. ALSO on some
(or all?) models powering them up >>with no system attached<< will cause
them to park the heads. That's another reason that I always power them up
before purchasing and moving them.
Good advice...
I believe I gave some to Frank a couple of years
ago but the biggest
problem is going to be finding a good tape drive. If somebody is serious
about these they should fix one of the tape drives then connect a external
floppy drive and dump the tapes to a^H MULTIPLE floppy disk.
Or even as binary files on a PC or some other machine that could
be exchanged, analyzed, and used to generate floppies (or whatever...)
Joe
Bill
1:10 p.m.
On Sat, 24 Apr 2004, Joe R. wrote:
At 11:05 PM 4/23/04 -0600, you wrote:
DC100! DC300s were the big suckers - about 4x6x.625 inches!
- don
There was a prototype of the 64000 with a 5MB
hard drive, but I don't know if it was ever
produced.
The original 64000 benchtops had a tape drive
(DC100? DC300?
I want to say DC300 but I'm not sure, it's been a long time. However
it's the same tapes that are used in the HP-85s. Check the archives, they
have been plenty of discussions about HP-85 tapes and drives. Don't waste
your time or money on old HP tapes, they're ALL bad. Take my word for it!!! You can use the old DC 2(something) 40 Mb tapes that
were used for backups
in PCs. The DEC CompacTape will also work. The tapes will have to
formatted. I'm not sure if the 64000 can do that or not but the HP-85 and
9825 can so I suspect the 64000 can too.
Can't remember, IIRC it was the
oversize (and
same drive used in the 26xx terminals, but a
different data format on the tape, of course :-)
and a later option had two 5.25 floppy drives in
place of the tape drive.
The ones that I've seen with the tape drives are marked 64000. The ones
with the two floppy disks were marked 64100 and the large "portable" one
were marked 64110. The portable version is built like an overweight!) Kaypro.
The whole idea was to put several 64000s on
one "large" disk drive using the HP-IB port on
the back. The resulting arrangement was called
a "cluster" in the HP manuals.
I've seen that shown in some of the manuals but I suspect that they
would require the use of some kind of SRM (Shared Resource Manager) software.
You could also hook
up a standard HP-IB printer to the cluster...
I seem to remember some mumbo-jumbo where the
disc had to be HP-IB ID 0 and the printer ID 1,
but that may have just been the early devices.
We used 7920s (50MB) and 7925s (125MB) until the
winchester types were available (7914, etc.) The
64000s would boot from the common disk. You might
be able to locate some of those around... 7906 with
the HP-IB option should also work, but you would
probably have better luck locating a CS-80 drive
like a 7912/7914/etc.
You'd have a lot better luck finding a 7957, 7958 or 7959. They're a lot
smaller, newer and more reliable. I've NEVER found one of the large 79xx
drives that was still working. The 7957, 7958 and 7959 are roughly 80 Mb,
150 Mb and 300 Mb capacity. If you only need 15, 20 or 40 Mb then you can
probably use a 9133, 9134, 9153 or something of that type. 20 Mb doesn't
sound like much but it's more than enough for most of the old HP computers.
I have a 80 Mb 7958 attached to my HP Integral and I've installed every
piece of software that was ever available for the IPC and I've only used a
fraction of the drive.
Hint. If you're considering the purchase of any of these HP drives, plug
it in first and power it up without connecting it to a system. The newer
ones have built-in self test and thry will run for about a minute and test
the drive. If the fault light comes on and stays on then the drive is bad
so don't buy it. Some of the early ones have a 2 character display on the
back. If they pass selftest it will show P and the HP-IB code (2 for
example). If they say F something then they failed self test. ALSO on some
(or all?) models powering them up >>with no system attached<< will cause
them to park the heads. That's another reason that I always power them up
before purchasing and moving them.
One more thing! If you get involved with any of the 3.5" floppy drives
be warned that the double sided drive have a bad tendency to get gummy and
not open completely. When that happens, the top head will catch on the disk
when you try to insert or remove it. That will ruin both the head and disk.
Check these carefully BEFORE even putting a disk in them. The good news is
that all you need to do to fix the problem is to clean the old grease off
the drive and relubricate it. Check the archives for more information.
If it has floppies (like the "portable" version) you
can boot it from floppy, if you have them... The ones
for the portable unit should boot in a crock. (You
could also put the "portable" (dragable?) unit on
a benchtop cluster and it would boot from the cluster
if there wasn't a boot floppy in the drive.)
Actually, you need the base OS to boot the unit and
the 80186 emulator code. Surely someone on this list
has the system tapes for a 64000 laying around...
I believe I gave some to Frank a couple of years ago but the biggest
problem is going to be finding a good tape drive. If somebody is serious
about these they should fix one of the tape drives then connect a external
floppy drive and dump the tapes to a^H MULTIPLE floppy disk. That's what
I've been wanting to do with the HP-85 and HP 9825 software. The tape drive
isn't exactly the same as that used in the HP-85 and other calculators. It
is the same as that used in some of HP Spectrum Analyzers and other test
equipment. But it's similar enough that you can follow the instructions for
fixing a HP-85 tape dirve. Those have been published here on the list
several times and should be available in the archives. The main things that
you need to watch are to get the roller the right size and close to being
round.
Joe
Good luck...
Bill
SHAUN RIPLEY wrote:
Hi guys,
Does HP 64000 have a build in HD? If I don't have
the floppy disks, can I boot it? Also, where can I
find the softwhere for the 80186 emulator that comes
with it? Thanks. It is bulky.
vax, 3900
__________________________________
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Yahoo! Photos: High-quality 4x6 digital prints for 25?
http://photos.yahoo.com/ph/print_splash
26 Apr
26 Apr
6:25 a.m.
On 24 Apr 2004 at 8:20, Joe R. wrote:
The ones that I've seen with the tape drives are
marked 64000.
64100A Logic Development Station + option 040 (add tape drive). Or 64100A
Logic Development Station and 64940A Tape Cartridge Unit.
Reference: HP 64000 Logic Development System Selection and Configuration
Guide, July 1985.
The ones with the two floppy disks were marked
64100...
64100A Logic Development Station + option 041 (add two floppy drives). Or
64100A Logic Development Station and 64941A Dual 5-1/4 Inch Flexible Disc
Unit. (Ibid.)
...and the large "portable" one were marked
64110.
Dual floppy drives were standard with the 64110A Logic Development Station.
I've seen that shown in some of the manuals but I
suspect that they
would require the use of some kind of SRM (Shared Resource Manager)
software.
The standard 64000 system software, product number 64100AF, supported stand-
alone or clustered development stations.
You'd have a lot better luck finding a 7957, 7958
or 7959. They're a lot
smaller, newer and more reliable.
Note that support for the CS/80 drives was dependent on development station
firmware revision level. Version C or above is required for 7908, 7911,
7912, and 7914 drives. Version D or above is required for 7907, 7941,
7942, 7945, 7946, and 9134D/H drives. (Reference: ibid.)
On 23 Apr 2004 at 23:05, Bill McDermith wrote:
Actually, you need the base OS to boot the unit and
the 80186 emulator
code.
The 80186 emulator software would be product number 64224AF. The diskettes
themselves would be marked with part number 64224-120xx.
-- Dave
24 Apr
24 Apr
2:39 a.m.
At 09:16 PM 4/23/04 -0700, you wrote:
Hi guys,
Does HP 64000 have a build in HD?
No. There are no built-in drives except a tape drive and they normally
have the same problem as the HP-85 and othe rHP tape drives. ((Melted drive
rollers). You can add external floppy and/or hard drives via HP-IB.
If I don't have
the floppy disks, can I boot it? Also, where can I
find the softwhere for the 80186 emulator that comes
with it?
Don't know. Check with Frank McConnell. I gave him all the docs and SW
that I could find.
Joe
Thanks. It is bulky.
vax, 3900
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