6 Aug
2002
6 Aug
'02
8:43 p.m.
Tandy M100, M102, M200. Olivetti M10. And whatever the
Kyocera version
was called. (OK, they contain an 8085 CPU, which was originally an Intel
design, but I don't think that's the normal meaning of 'Wintel')
These are Wintel, but they are MStel. The ROM was written by
Microsoft.
--
Eric Dittman
dittman(a)dittman.net
Check out the DEC Enthusiasts Club at http://www.dittman.net/
7 Aug
7 Aug
4:15 a.m.
On Wed, 7 Aug 2002, Eric Dittman wrote:
But they don't run DOS and are 8085-based. Far enough removed that I
would not call them "Wintel" at all.
Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org
* Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com *
Tandy M100,
M102, M200. Olivetti M10. And whatever the Kyocera version
was called. (OK, they contain an 8085 CPU, which was originally an Intel
design, but I don't think that's the normal meaning of 'Wintel')
These are Wintel, but they are MStel. The ROM was written by
Microsoft. 
5:15 a.m.
Rumor has it that Sellam Ismail may have mentioned these words:
On Wed, 7 Aug 2002, Eric Dittman wrote:
But they don't run DOS and are 8085-based. Far enough removed that I
would not call them "Wintel" at all.
I'd even say that the [not previously mentioned] Tandy 600 wouldn't be
Wintel... It runs an 8088 & uses an MS operating system called HH/OS (short
for HandHeld OS - which is a serious misnomer due to the weight of the
thing...) It had a flip-up 80x16 screen, and was the first laptop with a
built-in floppy drive. It was a Zenith OEM but shared a few characteristics
with the Tandy Model 100/102/200, like it's use of the same parallel port
cable & whatnot... Most notably absent was BASIC - that was an extra $139...
Laterz,
Roger "Merch" Merchberger
--
Roger "Merch" Merchberger --- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers
Recycling is good, right??? Ok, so I'll recycle an old .sig.
If at first you don't succeed, nuclear warhead
disarmament should *not* be your first career choice.
Tandy
M100, M102, M200. Olivetti M10. And whatever the Kyocera version
was called. (OK, they contain an 8085 CPU, which was originally an Intel
design, but I don't think that's the normal meaning of 'Wintel')
These are Wintel, but they are MStel. The ROM was written by
Microsoft.
9:27 a.m.
On Wed, 7 Aug 2002, Roger Merchberger wrote:
I'd even say that the [not previously mentioned]
Tandy 600 wouldn't be
Wintel... It runs an 8088 & uses an MS operating system called HH/OS (short
for HandHeld OS - which is a serious misnomer due to the weight of the
Hmm, the pre-cursor of WinCE?
thing...) It had a flip-up 80x16 screen, and was the
first laptop with a
built-in floppy drive. It was a Zenith OEM but shared a few characteristics
Really? What year did this come out?
Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org
* Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com *
10:23 a.m.
Rumor has it that Sellam Ismail may have mentioned these words:
My brain wants to say '86 or '87, but having just moved, it's packed
somewhere... I'll see if I can find it in the next day or two & find out...
[[ quick jaunt to google... ]]
Found one timeline that places it at Nov. '85... According to the Tandy 600
FAQ, it was announced on 28 Oct. '85, so my memory was close... but I've
always been a bit off... [ ba-da-bum. Splat.]
Laterz,
Roger "Merch" Merchberger
--
Roger "Merch" Merchberger --- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers
Recycling is good, right??? Ok, so I'll recycle an old .sig.
If at first you don't succeed, nuclear warhead
disarmament should *not* be your first career choice.
On Wed, 7 Aug 2002, Roger Merchberger wrote:
Tough to say... but could be!?!?
I'd even say that the [not previously
mentioned] Tandy 600 wouldn't be
Wintel... It runs an 8088 & uses an MS operating system called HH/OS (short
for HandHeld OS - which is a serious misnomer due to the weight of the
Hmm, the pre-cursor of WinCE? thing...) It
had a flip-up 80x16 screen, and was the first laptop with a
built-in floppy drive. It was a Zenith OEM but shared a few characteristics
Really? What year did this come out? 
11:04 a.m.
On Wed, 7 Aug 2002, Roger Merchberger wrote:
My brain wants to say '86 or '87, but having
just moved, it's packed
somewhere... I'll see if I can find it in the next day or two & find out...
Found one timeline that places it at Nov. '85... According to the Tandy 600
FAQ, it was announced on 28 Oct. '85, so my memory was close... but I've
always been a bit off... [ ba-da-bum. Splat.]
If it was, indeed '86 or '87, or even '85, then it was absolutely NOT the
first to have a built-in floppy drive! No matter what Radio Shack might
claim. They also have, at various times, claimed to have invented the
"clamshell" design, RS-232, modems, and microcomputers.
Think Gavilan and Grid!
And, should we consider the "built-in" tape drive of the Epson HC-20
followed by the HX-20 in that?, or just those using a floppy disk?
I'd even say that the [not previously mentioned]
Tandy 600 wouldn't be
Wintel... It runs an 8088 & uses an MS operating system called HH/OS (short
for HandHeld OS - which is a serious misnomer due to the weight of the
thing...) It had a flip-up 80x16 screen, and was the first laptop with a
built-in floppy drive. It was a Zenith OEM but shared a few characteristics
Really?
What year did this come out?
12:47 p.m.
Rumor has it that Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) may have mentioned these words:
If it was, indeed '86 or '87, or even '85,
then it was absolutely NOT the
first to have a built-in floppy drive! No matter what Radio Shack might
claim. They also have, at various times, claimed to have invented the
"clamshell" design, RS-232, modems, and microcomputers.
I was repeating what I'd heard other folks intelligent in the ways & means
of classic laptops; I've owned more than enough Tandys & even worked for
Tandy long enough to know that there's not an iota of truth in many of RS's
claimed "inventions" and/or breakthrus...
Think Gavilan and Grid!
I'm thinking... I'm thinking... I'm thinking I'm coming up blank! I've
never seen (or heard of; other than a random post on the list "I just got a
Grid"...) either of these so I wouldn't know one if you hit me over the
head with it...
And, should we consider the "built-in" tape
drive of the Epson HC-20
followed by the HX-20 in that?, or just those using a floppy disk?
_That_ I was being specific with... I knew there were many earlier laptops
with built-in magnetic storage...
--
Roger "Merch" Merchberger --- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers
Recycling is good, right??? Ok, so I'll recycle an old .sig.
If at first you don't succeed, nuclear warhead
disarmament should *not* be your first career choice.
5:01 p.m.
On Wed, 7 Aug 2002, Roger Merchberger wrote:
Gavilan:
Introduced at NCC (National Computer Conference) in Anaheim summer 1983?
Dark grey, almost black, with clamshell design, but extending further
back, past the hinge. 3" floppy drive on the side, later replaced by SS
3.5". 8 line x 80 LCD, later replaced by 16 line display, (plus 80 x 25
composite video output). Removable non-volatile RAM cartridges. Expansion
connector on the back. Second floppy or printer could attach to the back,
or external 5.25" (unattached except by cable). Printer was thermal with
ribbon (could use thermal paper, or plain paper with ribbon, using thermal
paper AND ribbon gave VERY nice print quality) 8088 processor (V20 could
be installed with a few modifications) Some software of their own, plus
MS-DOS 2.11.
The Gavilan company was quite arrogant and top-heavy, and toppled after a
few good years.
Somewhere, I have some reels of tape that are supposedly backup tapes from
their minicomputer. I don't have anything handy that will read them.
Uncle Roger got the rest of my Gavilan stuff (a couple of totes full)
Grid:
Introduced at PC Faire? Fall 1983?
Black magnesium case. Very sexy.
Sorry, no specs handy, and I didn't own any to be able to describe it.
The Grid company was eventually devoured by Tandy.
Think Gavilan
and Grid!
I'm thinking... I'm thinking... I'm thinking I'm coming
up blank! I've
never seen (or heard of; other than a random post on the list "I just got a
Grid"...) either of these so I wouldn't know one if you hit me over the
head with it...
7:36 p.m.
On Wed, 7 Aug 2002, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote:
Grid:
Introduced at PC Faire? Fall 1983?
Earlier: 1982. Don't know where.
Black magnesium case. Very sexy.
Mmmm.
Sorry, no specs handy, and I didn't own any to be
able to describe it.
Uncle Roger has a nice spec page (includes photos):
http://www.sinasohn.com/cgi-bin/clascomp/bldhtm.pl?computer=compass
Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org
* Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com *
11:38 a.m.
On Wed, 7 Aug 2002, Roger Merchberger wrote:
My brain wants to say '86 or '87, but having just moved, it's packed
somewhere... I'll see if I can find it in the next day or two & find out...
There were a few computers before the Tandy 600 with a built-in disk
drive. The first that I can think of off-hand and which would have been
the earliest is the Gavilan. It featured a 3" disk drive.
Or did you mean 3.5" disk drive specifically?
Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org
* Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com *
thing...) It had a flip-up 80x16 screen, and was the
first laptop with a
built-in floppy drive. It was a Zenith OEM but shared a few characteristics
Really? What year did this come out?
11:55 a.m.
On Wed, 7 Aug 2002, Sellam Ismail wrote:
There were a few computers before the Tandy 600 with a
built-in disk
drive. The first that I can think of off-hand and which would have been
the earliest is the Gavilan. It featured a 3" disk drive.
Or did you mean 3.5" disk drive specifically?
Before the Tandy 600 came out, Gavilan had already switched from a 3"
drive to a 3.5" drive (Shugart SA300 (single sided)) Right about the time
that they closed, they were supporting double sided 3.5" (Shugart SA350),
with their OEM MS-DOS 2.11J? Installing other brands of double sided
drives was possible, but they had a custom faceplate that would only fit
the Shugarts - it could be removed from a Gavilan SA300 and installed on a
SA350.
8055
days inactive
8055
days old
10 comments
4 participants
participants (4)
-
cisin＠xenosoft.com -
dittman＠dittman.net -
foo＠siconic.com -
zmerch＠30below.com