14 Jan
2014
14 Jan
'14
2:15 p.m.
So, I've been plinking around a bit with some of the operating systems
for DEC's 18-bit machines. Specifically with DECsys-7 for the PDP-7,
and XVM/DOS for the PDP-15.
I've heard that DECsys-7 can run on the PDP-4, and in fact it
"kind-of/sort-of" does. I'm wondering if anyone here knows how to get
DECsys-7 working on the '4 to the point of being usable. The problem
is that the PDP-4's console teleprinter was the 5-bit
(ITA-2/USTTY/"Baudot") Model 28 KSR Teletype, the '7 used an ASCII
machine (33 KSR, or 35 KSR). So the one key which is used in DECsys to
terminate input to the text editor the delete/RUBOUT key is not
present on the 28. So, you can't create any programs in DECsys on the
PDP-4. There has to be something I'm missing that'll get it to work
(surprisingly, the other key vital for using the editor in DECsys --
the tab key -- will work by inputting the teletype's bell code).
My next question has to do with XVM/DOS; I cannot seem to get FOCAL to
run. The system was built to the simulator's configuration (no UC15
UNICHANNEL, FP15, floating point, RP15, RF15, LP15, no VT15 or VP15,
support for API), using SGEN I then tailored the system properly
(start up with XVM and API turned on, and memory size of 128KW). I
assigned the DAT slots needed for FOCAL:
(-1 and -4 are already assigned by the monitor to SYA <SYS>.)
ASSIGN SYA <CMG> 3,5,7,10
Trying to execute FOCAL with "E FOCAL" I get an IOPS13 error ("FILE
NOT FOUND - CAL ADDR **"), and trying it with LOAD and GLOAD I get a
.LOAD 3 error ("SUBR NOT FOUND"). Anyone here know the magic of how to
get FOCAL to run on XVM/DOS?
Thanks to any who respond.
Regards,
Christian
--
Christian M. Gauger-Cosgrove
STCKON08DS0
Contact information available upon request.
14 Jan
14 Jan
3:40 p.m.
On Jan 14, 2014, at 6:15 AM, Christian Gauger-Cosgrove <captainkirk359 at gmail.com>
wrote:
So, I've been plinking around a bit with some of
the operating systems
for DEC's 18-bit machines. Specifically with DECsys-7 for the PDP-7,
and XVM/DOS for the PDP-15.
Where on earth did you find the software for DECsys-7? You are the first person I've
even heard of attempting to run DECsys-7 or XVM/DOS.
Zane
healyzh at aracnet.com
http://www.zanesphotography.com
http://www.flickr.com/photos/zanes-photography/
5:19 p.m.
On 1/14/14 7:40 AM, Zane Healy wrote:
Where on earth did you find the software for DECsys-7?
Bob Supnik has had it for a while. I think he even wrote a paper about getting it
working.
LCM has it as well. The got a bunch of 7 software with the Univ of Oregon Physics Dept
machine.
A bunch of work was done while Bob was developing the 18 bit simulators for SIMH and
while
Hans Pufal and I were still able to find things.
5:25 p.m.
On Jan 14, 2014, at 12:19 PM, Al Kossow <aek at bitsavers.org> wrote:
On 1/14/14 7:40 AM, Zane Healy wrote:
The 18 bit OS that would be most worth finding (but probably a pipe dream) would be Unix ?
from before the time it was ported to the PDP-11.
paul
Where on earth did you find the software for
DECsys-7?
Bob Supnik has had it for a while. I think he even wrote a paper about getting it
working.
LCM has it as well. The got a bunch of 7 software with the Univ of Oregon Physics Dept
machine.
A bunch of work was done while Bob was developing the 18 bit simulators for SIMH and
while
Hans Pufal and I were still able to find things. 
9:19 p.m.
On 01/14/2014 06:25 PM, Paul Koning wrote:
On Jan 14, 2014, at 12:19 PM, Al Kossow <aek at
bitsavers.org> wrote:
Aren't there some bits of it available?
As you know there are PDP-11 sources available:
http://minnie.tuhs.org/cgi-bin/utree.pl
But I recall reading that at least some PDP-7 DECtapes were read, though
not a complete system. But I'm probably mistaken, at the moment I can
only find this: http://cm.bell-labs.com/cm/cs/who/dmr/notes.html
and this:
http://epublications.bond.edu.au/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1149&conte…
Indicating that only PDP-11 versions are available.
/P
On 1/14/14 7:40 AM, Zane Healy wrote:
The 18 bit OS that would be most
worth finding (but probably a pipe dream) would be Unix ? from before the time it was
ported to the PDP-11.
Where on earth did you find the software for
DECsys-7?
Bob Supnik has had it for a while. I think he even wrote a paper about
getting it working.
LCM has it as well. The got a bunch of 7 software with the Univ of Oregon Physics Dept
machine.
A bunch of work was done while Bob was developing the 18 bit simulators for SIMH and
while
Hans Pufal and I were still able to find things. 
10:22 p.m.
On 1/14/14 9:25 AM, "Paul Koning" <paulkoning at comcast.net> wrote:
On Jan 14, 2014, at 12:19 PM, Al Kossow <aek at bitsavers.org> wrote:
Not too long before he passed away, I had a dialogue going with DMK
through Warren Toomey, and Dennis indicated he was certain there were no
electronic copies of PDP-7 UNIX extant, and doubted he had any listings,
even partial. However, he said he was moving at the time - in retrospect,
perhaps because of his medical condition - so everything was in boxes.
Hopefully his executors are thoughtful people who would recognize such a
precious artifact. FWIW -- Ian
On 1/14/14 7:40 AM, Zane Healy wrote:
The 18 bit OS that would be most worth finding (but probably a pipe
dream) would be Unix ? from before the time it was ported to the PDP-11. Where on earth did you find the software for
DECsys-7?
Bob Supnik has had it for a while. I think he even wrote a paper about
getting it working.
LCM has it as well. The got a bunch of 7 software with the Univ of
Oregon Physics Dept machine.
A bunch of work was done while Bob was developing the 18 bit simulators
for SIMH and while
Hans Pufal and I were still able to find things.
15 Jan
15 Jan
4:09 a.m.
On Jan 14, 2014, at 9:19 AM, Al Kossow <aek at bitsavers.org> wrote:
On 1/14/14 7:40 AM, Zane Healy wrote:
I guess it's *long* past time I take a day or two, surf the net, and do some updates
on my emulation site. It looks like I've simply been too busy with my photography to
pay attention.
Zane
healyzh at aracnet.com
http://www.zanesphotography.com
http://www.flickr.com/photos/zanes-photography/
Where on earth did you find the software for
DECsys-7?
Bob Supnik has had it for a while. I think he even wrote a paper about getting it
working.
LCM has it as well. The got a bunch of 7 software with the Univ of Oregon Physics Dept
machine.
A bunch of work was done while Bob was developing the 18 bit simulators for SIMH and
while
Hans Pufal and I were still able to find things.
17 Jan
17 Jan
7:10 p.m.
Thank you to the people who commented on this topic. Though I'm still
having difficulty with those same two issues.
The whole DECsys-7 on PDP-4 issue really isn't all that pressing; was
just trying to get it to work as I've an idea of how to make a nearby
Model 28 KSR do something more interesting than printing ITTY.
As to the whole issue with XVM/DOS. Yeah, I have no idea what the
thing is doing. I've rebuilt the system, twice, once on RP02 and the
other a straight rebuild on RF09. I've tried running it with EXECUTE,
LOAD, and GLOAD. Yet, nothing seems to work.
The error it reports is file not found.
GLOAD provides the following dump:
LOADER XVM V1A000
P_FOCAL
P FOCAL 028 071742
P .BH 005 071711
P DSQRT 007 071621
P DSIN 001 071607
P DCOS 002 071570
P DATAN 001 071556
P DEXP 001 071544
P DLOG 005 071520
P .DD 006 071361
P .DB 004 071244
P .DE 003 071140
P .DF 001 071010
P .DC 001 070745
P .DA 013 070670
P .CAT1 001 070625
P .FPP 018 070165
P OTSER 015 067565
P .CB 004 070143
G .AA 000000
G .AB 000000
G .AC 000000
G .AO 000000
G .AP 000000
G .AQ 000000
G .AR 000000
G .AS 000000
G .AT 000000
G .BA 000000
G .CD 000000
G .NEWF 000000
.LOAD 3
The error .LOAD 3 being "SUBR NOT FOUND" which I'm not sure what it
precisely means. Both the FP and non-FP libraries are located in <SYS>
(the pseudo director/UIC that maps to <BNK> and <PAG> depending on
mode). So the library *IS* there. The DAT slots are assigned
correctly, with -1 (the system library slot) being assigned to SYA
<SYS>. That was done prior to running GLOAD (and the result is above).
When I assign the DAT slots in GLOAD:
LOADER XVM V1A000
A SYA <SYS> -1
A SYA <CMG> 3,5,7,10
P \_FOCAL
G BOTTOM 071742
G BUFSTX 071743
G CHAR 072026
G EFUN3 074513
G EVAL 074266
G FETVAR 074104
G FINT 077176
G FLARG 072043
G FUNERR 075513
G LASTV 071750
G LINENO 072027
G PD2 073067
G PD3 073106
G UTRA 074746
G XGETLN 072640
G XPOPJ 074261
G XPUSHA 073031
G XPUSHJ 073054
G XSPNOR 074227
G .ER 077430
P FOCAL 028 071742
G .BH 071711
P .BH 005 071711
G DSQRT 071621
P DSQRT 007 071621
G DSIN 071607
P DSIN 001 071607
G DCOS 071570
P DCOS 002 071570
G DATAN 071556
P DATAN 001 071556
G DEXP 071544
P DEXP 001 071544
G DLOG 071520
P DLOG 005 071520
G .DD 071361
P .DD 006 071361
G .DB 071244
P .DB 004 071244
G .DE 071140
P .DE 003 071140
G .DF 071010
P .DF 001 071010
G .DC 070745
P .DC 001 070745
G .DA 070670
P .DA 013 070670
G .CAT1D 070625
G .CAT1R 070634
P .CAT1 001 070625
G .AW 070175
G .AX 070165
G .DZERO 070512
G .FPP 070165
G .OVUDF 070513
G .ZA 070203
G .ZB 070214
G .ZC 070221
G .ZD 070231
G .ZE 070236
P .FPP 018 070165
G .SPC 067751
G OTSER 067565
G .AERTB 067753
G .ERST 067721
G .ER3 067724
G .ER4 067570
G .ZR 067663
P OTSER 015 067565
G .CB 070143
P .CB 004 070143
G .AA 000000
G .AB 000000
G .AC 000000
G .AO 000000
G .AP 000000
G .AQ 000000
G .AR 000000
G .AS 000000
G .AT 000000
G .BA 000000
G .CD 000000
G .NEWF 000000
.LOAD 3
GLOAD looks like it does something more, but it still breaks with a
"SUBR NOT FOUND".
So, I really am looking for any help at all in getting FOCAL to run.
I've not tried anything with FORTRAN IV (mostly because I'd have to
figure out how to use the editor, and read up on what the expected
style is for the PDP-15 FORTRAN compiler is), so I'm unsure of whether
or not this problem is only in my incompetence in getting FOCAL
running, or if I've somehow buggered up the OS by not doing something
after installation.
Cheers,
Christian
--
Christian M. Gauger-Cosgrove
STCKON08DS0
Contact information available upon request.
4002
days inactive
4005
days old
7 comments
6 participants
participants (6)
-
aek＠bitsavers.org -
captainkirk359＠gmail.com -
healyzh＠aracnet.com -
IanK＠LivingComputerMuseum.org -
paulkoning＠comcast.net -
pontus＠update.uu.se