31 Oct
2015
31 Oct
'15
4:15 a.m.
Hello list,
spotted this video recently on youtube:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZQzDSOXHd70
It's a Xerox Digital Systems mainframe! Wow, I didn't know that such installations
were still running as of 1997!
The computer room is quite untidy. Andybody has an idea, where with was filmed?
There's also a Data General minicomputer and Honeywell mainframe equipment.
Can anybody identify the Honeywell stuff? It's Level 6000 style, but
it's strange to me that there seems to be just this one cabinet along the
rest of the XDS equipment. Maybe a Datanet option?
There are *very* nice close views on running CDC disk drives using the 100/200MB disk
packs.
I was looking for a long time for a video actually showing how the big head actuator
of these drives moves when performing data operations!
And there are nice reel tape drives which look to me like rebadged IBM drives (not sure,
though).
Enjoy watching it! I did!
Kind regards,
Pierre
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Pierre's collection of classic computers moved to: http://www.digitalheritage.de
31 Oct
31 Oct
5:45 a.m.
On Sat, Oct 31, 2015 at 11:15:18AM +0000, P Gebhardt wrote:
Hello list,
spotted this video recently on youtube:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZQzDSOXHd70
It's a Xerox Digital Systems mainframe! Wow, I didn't know that such
installations were still running as of 1997!
The computer room is quite untidy. Andybody has an idea, where with was filmed?
I don't know, but this link might help.
http://w3.uwyo.edu/~jimkirk/sigma_era.html
We had a Sigma 9 at Carleton U here in Ottawa for years and also had
either a Sigma 7 or another Sigma 9 (My memory is fading on this)
DREO/CRC here in Ottawa at Shirleys bay. (Well just outside of Ottawa
40 years ago)
http://www.drdc-rddc.gc.ca/en/index.page DREO
http://www.crc.gc.ca/eic/site/069.nsf/Intro
I remember hacking the computed goto in the Fortran so it would
execute my own entered assembler. That was fun. ;)
Diane
--
- db at FreeBSD.org db at db.net http://www.db.net/~db
11:51 a.m.
I remember hacking the computed goto in the Fortran so
it would
execute my own entered assembler. That was fun. ;)
Interesting - it was a more normal hack to abuse the assigned goto -
in most implementations* the variable contents were just a genuine memory address
and you could drop code into a common block thus Bob's yer uncle.
* On the ICL1900 all assignable labels got small integers which were used as an
index lookup in an assigned goto thus that trick would not work.
2:05 p.m.
On Sat, Oct 31, 2015 at 06:51:18PM +0000, ANDY HOLT wrote:
oops. Sorry yes, this is exactly what I did. Dropped my own address into
and executed code I stuffed in at run time into a data variable.
That needed a compile flag to link the data as executable. (I think)
I remember
hacking the computed goto in the Fortran so it would
execute my own entered assembler. That was fun. ;)
Interesting - it was a more normal hack to abuse the assigned goto -
in most implementations* the variable contents were just a genuine memory address
and you could drop code into a common block thus Bob's yer uncle.
* On the ICL1900 all assignable labels got small integers which were used as an
index lookup in an assigned goto thus that trick would not work.
Ah pity!
--
- db at FreeBSD.org db at db.net http://www.db.net/~db
2:08 p.m.
On 10/31/2015 11:51 AM, ANDY HOLT wrote:
Absolutely. The ASSIGNed GOTO was subject to much abuse--in CDC's
FORTRAN compiler (FTN and RUN) the COMMON and EQUIVALENCE sanity
checking routine was a very large set of ASSIGNed GOTOs to implement a
state machine...with absolutely no commenting at all.
It was one of those "don't fool with this thing as you'll probably end
up breaking it" routines. I've seen others over the years--they do
what they're supposed to do, with incredibly complex uncommented code.
It's probably a good think that X3 eventually dropped ASSIGNed GOTOs
I remember
hacking the computed goto in the Fortran so it would
execute my own entered assembler. That was fun. ;)
Interesting - it was a more normal hack to abuse the assigned goto -
in most implementations* the variable contents were just a genuine
memory address and you could drop code into a common block thus Bob's
yer uncle. from the language.
--Chuck
10:37 a.m.
Pierre et al,
I posted the video you linked to. The machines on the video belonged to
George Plue, who ran a medical billing service bureau in Flagstaff AZ. They
are now located at the Living Computer Museum (LCM) in Seattle.
George originally ran the Computer Center at Anderson University in Berrien
Springs MI, and the center ran several generations of SDS the XDS Sigma
mainframes over the years. When Xerox decided to get out of the mainframe
computing business in August 1975 the market for Sigmas essentially
collapsed despite Honeywell agreeing to buy the carcass of the business.
George and a partner got into the used Sigma HW business and he maintained
a stock of HW, SW and documentation at his home in MI. More info here:
http://www.andrews.edu/~calkins/profess/SDSigma7.htm
I'm unclear on when he acquired his second home in Flagstaff, but he had a
typical ranch style house in Flagstaff. The big difference being that he
had installed a significantly larger electrical feed with three-phase power
than one would find in a residence, and the downstairs family and bedrooms
were used as the machine room in the video.
I visited George in the early 2000's (I think) and at that time he had a
fully configured Sigma-9 and Sigma-8 mainframes, along with several tape
drives, and string of DASD. Yes, the machine room was strewn with
printouts, docs, partially finished projects, tapes, etc. But all the
machines worked and it was glorious. ;-)
Unfortunately George passed away a few years ago. All the HW and SW that
was in running condition was rescued by the LCM in Seattle. I know LCM has
had someone with Sigma experience working on and off on the Sigma to get it
running again. Not sure of the current status. But, that would be an
awesome time-sharing system alongside the DEC-20 they have.
There was also a group in AZ working on restoring a Sigma mainframe, maybe
some of Georges collection. He also had a complete Sigma-7 and a boatload
of Honeywell peripherals in his garage in Flagstaff. The AZ group was very
energetic, but I have not heard any updates in several years. Having worked
on CHM's first restoration, the IBM 1620, from start to finish I know its a
huge undertaking to get even a relatively straightforward machine up and
running.
Back in the late 1990s I deinstalled a Sigma-5 at CMU that CHM acquired.
Video here: https://youtu.be/Sv3TnaaCVoc
I also learned FORTRAN on a Sigma-7 in 1973 at UT-Arlington. Cool machine.
Would *love* to hack on one again. :-)
Cheers,
Lee Courtney
On Sat, Oct 31, 2015 at 4:15 AM, P Gebhardt <p.gebhardt at ymail.com> wrote:
Hello list,
spotted this video recently on youtube:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZQzDSOXHd70
It's a Xerox Digital Systems mainframe! Wow, I didn't know that such
installations were still running as of 1997!
The computer room is quite untidy. Andybody has an idea, where with was
filmed?
There's also a Data General minicomputer and Honeywell mainframe equipment.
Can anybody identify the Honeywell stuff? It's Level 6000 style, but
it's strange to me that there seems to be just this one cabinet along the
rest of the XDS equipment. Maybe a Datanet option?
There are *very* nice close views on running CDC disk drives using the
100/200MB disk packs.
I was looking for a long time for a video actually showing how the big
head actuator
of these drives moves when performing data operations!
And there are nice reel tape drives which look to me like rebadged IBM
drives (not sure, though).
Enjoy watching it! I did!
Kind regards,
Pierre
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Pierre's collection of classic computers moved to:
http://www.digitalheritage.de
--
Lee Courtney
+1-650-704-3934 cell
10:58 a.m.
On Sat, Oct 31, 2015 at 10:37 AM, Lee Courtney <leec2124 at gmail.com> wrote:
Unfortunately George passed away a few years ago. All the HW and SW that
was in running condition was rescued by the LCM in Seattle. I know LCM has
had someone with Sigma experience working on and off on the Sigma to get it
running again. Not sure of the current status. But, that would be an
awesome time-sharing system alongside the DEC-20 they have.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SDS_Sigma_series
"In 2011 the Living Computer Museum in Seattle, Washington acquired a
Sigma 9 from a service bureau (Applied Esoterics/George Plue Estate)
and has made it operational.[2] That Sigma 9 CPU was at the University
of Southern Mississippi until Nov. 1985 when Andrews University
purchased it and took it to Michigan. In Feb. 1990 Andrews University
via Keith Calkins sold and delivered it to Applied Esoterics in
Flagstaff. Keith Calkins made the Sigma 9 functional for the museum in
2012/13 and brought up the CP-V operating system in Dec. 2014."
One of these days I need to get over to LCM and check out all of the
cool stuff they have there.
2 Nov
2 Nov
2:15 p.m.
From: Lee Courtney
Sent: Saturday, October 31, 2015 10:37 AM
I posted the video you linked to. The machines on the
video belonged to
George Plue, who ran a medical billing service bureau in Flagstaff AZ. They
are now located at the Living Computer Museum (LCM) in Seattle.
George originally ran the Computer Center at Anderson
University in Berrien
Andrews
Springs MI, and the center ran several generations of
SDS the XDS Sigma
mainframes over the years. When Xerox decided to get out of the mainframe
computing business in August 1975 the market for Sigmas essentially
collapsed despite Honeywell agreeing to buy the carcass of the business.
George and a partner got into the used Sigma HW business and he maintained
a stock of HW, SW and documentation at his home in MI. More info here:
http://www.andrews.edu/~calkins/profess/SDSigma7.htm
George's partner was Stan Ritland, who came from a family of doctors but who
did not like medicine as a career path himself. They located the business in
Flagstaff to take advantage of the built in customer base made up of Stan's
three brothers; their offices were across the street from the main hospital,
and they quickly grew.
(George, an only child, met Stan when they were 8 years old. They were best
friends for nearly 60 years, and George spent as much time at Stan's home as
at his own growing up.)
I'm unclear on when he acquired his second home in
Flagstaff, but he had a
typical ranch style house in Flagstaff. The big difference being that he
had installed a significantly larger electrical feed with three-phase power
than one would find in a residence, and the downstairs family and bedrooms
were used as the machine room in the video.
The reason George *bought* the house was that there was already a 220V service
running across the back of the property, so that running 220V into the house
was a lot less expensive than usual.
The basement in which the computers and peripherals were a tilt-up add-on to
the original house.
I visited George in the early 2000's (I think) and
at that time he had a
fully configured Sigma-9 and Sigma-8 mainframes, along with several tape
drives, and string of DASD. Yes, the machine room was strewn with
printouts, docs, partially finished projects, tapes, etc. But all the
machines worked and it was glorious. ;-)
It's a Sigma 6, not a Sigma 8. The 6 was a clone of the 7 and 9 built for the
education market with all of the usually unbundled products included in the
license for CP-V.
Unfortunately George passed away a few years ago. All
the HW and SW that
was in running condition was rescued by the LCM in Seattle. I know LCM has
had someone with Sigma experience working on and off on the Sigma to get it
running again. Not sure of the current status. But, that would be an
awesome time-sharing system alongside the DEC-20 they have.
Not just running condition. 100,000 pounds of gear, including the 9, 6, and a
7 that had been retired in the 90s, spares for all of them, the 8 running disk
drives and 4 running tape drives, along with about 20 more disk drives (the
older 50MB hydraulic units) from the 7. Five 24' trucks, driven by Stan and his
brothers from Flagstaff to Seattle.
My colleague Keith and I spent 3 days in Flagstaff deinstalling everything,
while Stan, 2 of his brothers, and George's wife, daughter, and granddaughter
looked on, labeled, packed, fed us, forklifted onto the trucks, and celebrated
George's life.
There was also a group in AZ working on restoring a
Sigma mainframe, maybe
some of Georges collection. He also had a complete Sigma-7 and a boatload
of Honeywell peripherals in his garage in Flagstaff. The AZ group was very
energetic, but I have not heard any updates in several years. Having worked
on CHM's first restoration, the IBM 1620, from start to finish I know its a
huge undertaking to get even a relatively straightforward machine up and
running.
No, George helped them, but he was running a Sigma support business; he was not
inclined to give things away.
George Plue was a true wizard. One of his creations was a SCSI interface for
the Sigma 9 which allowed him to copy magnetic tape files to DAT (not, as we
all know now, the best choice of medium, but remarkable for all that).
George was also a true gentleman, as is Stan Ritland. It was a privilege to
know George for the short time that I did. We met about a year and a half
before his untimely passing, thanks to Lee Courtney.
Rich
Rich Alderson
Vintage Computing Sr. Systems Engineer
Living Computer Museum
2245 1st Avenue S
Seattle, WA 98134
mailto:RichA at LivingComputerMuseum.org
http://www.LivingComputerMuseum.org/
4:45 p.m.
----- Urspr?ngliche Message -----
Von: Rich Alderson <RichA at
LivingComputerMuseum.org>
An: 'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts' <cctalk at
classiccmp.org>
CC:
Gesendet: 22:15 Montag, 2.November 2015
Betreff: RE: youtube video of a runnning XDS Sigma mainframe with lots of nice
peripherals
From: Lee Courtney
Sent: Saturday, October 31, 2015 10:37 AM
Lee and Rich,
thanks a million for sharing your life experiences in this area and your memories about
George and his commitment regarding the preservation of these Sigma systems!!!
Kind regards,
Pierre
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Pierre's collection of classic computers moved to: http://www.digitalheritage.de
I posted the video you linked to. The machines
on the video belonged to
George Plue, who ran a medical billing service bureau in Flagstaff AZ. They
are now located at the Living Computer Museum (LCM) in Seattle.
George originally ran the Computer Center at
Anderson University in Berrien
Andrews
Springs MI, and the center ran several
generations of SDS the XDS Sigma
mainframes over the years. When Xerox decided to get out of the mainframe
computing business in August 1975 the market for Sigmas essentially
collapsed despite Honeywell agreeing to buy the carcass of the business.
George and a partner got into the used Sigma HW business and he maintained
a stock of HW, SW and documentation at his home in MI. More info here:
http://www.andrews.edu/~calkins/profess/SDSigma7.htm
George's partner was Stan Ritland, who came from a family of doctors but who
did not like medicine as a career path himself. They located the business in
Flagstaff to take advantage of the built in customer base made up of Stan's
three brothers; their offices were across the street from the main hospital,
and they quickly grew.
(George, an only child, met Stan when they were 8 years old. They were best
friends for nearly 60 years, and George spent as much time at Stan's home as
at his own growing up.)
I'm unclear on when he acquired his second
home in Flagstaff, but he
had a
typical ranch style house in Flagstaff. The big
difference being that he
had installed a significantly larger electrical feed with three-phase power
than one would find in a residence, and the downstairs family and bedrooms
were used as the machine room in the video.
The reason George *bought* the house was that there was already a 220V service
running across the back of the property, so that running 220V into the house
was a lot less expensive than usual.
The basement in which the computers and peripherals were a tilt-up add-on to
the original house.
I visited George in the early 2000's (I
think) and at that time he had
a
fully configured Sigma-9 and Sigma-8 mainframes,
along with several tape
drives, and string of DASD. Yes, the machine room was strewn with
printouts, docs, partially finished projects, tapes, etc. But all the
machines worked and it was glorious. ;-)
It's a Sigma 6, not a Sigma 8. The 6 was a clone of the 7 and 9 built for
the
education market with all of the usually unbundled products included in the
license for CP-V.
Unfortunately George passed away a few years
ago. All the HW and SW that
was in running condition was rescued by the LCM in Seattle. I know LCM has
had someone with Sigma experience working on and off on the Sigma to get it
running again. Not sure of the current status. But, that would be an
awesome time-sharing system alongside the DEC-20 they have.
Not just running condition. 100,000 pounds of gear, including the 9, 6, and a
7 that had been retired in the 90s, spares for all of them, the 8 running disk
drives and 4 running tape drives, along with about 20 more disk drives (the
older 50MB hydraulic units) from the 7. Five 24' trucks, driven by Stan and
his
brothers from Flagstaff to Seattle.
My colleague Keith and I spent 3 days in Flagstaff deinstalling everything,
while Stan, 2 of his brothers, and George's wife, daughter, and
granddaughter
looked on, labeled, packed, fed us, forklifted onto the trucks, and celebrated
George's life.
There was also a group in AZ working on
restoring a Sigma mainframe, maybe
some of Georges collection. He also had a complete Sigma-7 and a boatload
of Honeywell peripherals in his garage in Flagstaff. The AZ group was very
energetic, but I have not heard any updates in several years. Having worked
on CHM's first restoration, the IBM 1620, from start to finish I know
its a
huge undertaking to get even a relatively
straightforward machine up and
running.
No, George helped them, but he was running a Sigma support business; he was not
inclined to give things away.
George Plue was a true wizard. One of his creations was a SCSI interface for
the Sigma 9 which allowed him to copy magnetic tape files to DAT (not, as we
all know now, the best choice of medium, but remarkable for all that).
George was also a true gentleman, as is Stan Ritland. It was a privilege to
know George for the short time that I did. We met about a year and a half
before his untimely passing, thanks to Lee Courtney.
Rich
5 p.m.
On 11/2/15 2:15 PM, Rich Alderson wrote:
Not just running condition. 100,000 pounds of gear,
including the 9, 6, and a
7 that had been retired in the 90s, spares for all of them, the 8 running disk
drives and 4 running tape drives, along with about 20 more disk drives (the
older 50MB hydraulic units) from the 7. Five 24' trucks, driven by Stan and his
brothers from Flagstaff to Seattle.
I am glad that LCM was able to save these systems.
If I were king, there would be a Sigma running where the 1401 is at CHM.
3 Nov
3 Nov
8:34 a.m.
"If I were king, there would be a Sigma running where the 1401 is at CHM."
You have my vote. Along with some time-sharing...
Lee C.
On Mon, Nov 2, 2015 at 5:00 PM, Al Kossow <aek at bitsavers.org> wrote:
On 11/2/15 2:15 PM, Rich Alderson wrote:
Not just running condition. 100,000 pounds of gear, including the 9, 6,
--
Lee Courtney
+1-650-704-3934 cell
and a
7 that had been retired in the 90s, spares for all of them, the 8 running
disk
drives and 4 running tape drives, along with about 20 more disk drives
(the
older 50MB hydraulic units) from the 7. Five 24' trucks, driven by Stan
and his
brothers from Flagstaff to Seattle.
I am glad that LCM was able to save these systems.
If I were king, there would be a Sigma running where the 1401 is at CHM.
9 Nov
9 Nov
6:14 a.m.
On 11/2/15 8:00 PM, Al Kossow wrote:
On 11/2/15 2:15 PM, Rich Alderson wrote:
I'll never forget the community memory at Project One. It certainly
changed my life (well, got me to head to SF as a misguided 15 year old :-)
That, and the newspaper printed versions of DDJ featuring some teaching
language (pilot?) in HP basic, caused me to pursue software with a
vengeance.
-brad
Not just running condition. 100,000 pounds of
gear, including the 9,
6, and a
7 that had been retired in the 90s, spares for all of them, the 8
running disk
drives and 4 running tape drives, along with about 20 more disk
drives (the
older 50MB hydraulic units) from the 7. Five 24' trucks, driven by
Stan and his
brothers from Flagstaff to Seattle.
I am glad that LCM was able to save these systems.
If I were king, there would be a Sigma running where the 1401 is at CHM.
31 Oct
31 Oct
10:41 a.m.
Hi Pierre,
Sorry forgot to address this in my original email...
"There's also a Data General minicomputer and Honeywell mainframe equipment.
Can anybody identify the Honeywell stuff? It's Level 6000 style, but
it's strange to me that there seems to be just this one cabinet along the
rest of the XDS equipment. Maybe a Datanet option?"
When Honeywell bought the Sigma mainframe business from Xerox in 1975 it
agreed to continue support and provide upgrades. One of these was
interfacing various peripherals and upgraded memory. The Honeywell box
George had connected to the Sigma-9 was a solid state memory. It was not a
stand-along Honeywell computer, just semiconductor memory rather than core
memory that was originally used on the Sigma-9
Yes, he did have a DG minicomputer in the room also. I never saw it run.
Lee C.
On Sat, Oct 31, 2015 at 4:15 AM, P Gebhardt <p.gebhardt at ymail.com> wrote:
Hello list,
spotted this video recently on youtube:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZQzDSOXHd70
It's a Xerox Digital Systems mainframe! Wow, I didn't know that such
installations were still running as of 1997!
The computer room is quite untidy. Andybody has an idea, where with was
filmed?
There's also a Data General minicomputer and Honeywell mainframe equipment.
Can anybody identify the Honeywell stuff? It's Level 6000 style, but
it's strange to me that there seems to be just this one cabinet along the
rest of the XDS equipment. Maybe a Datanet option?
There are *very* nice close views on running CDC disk drives using the
100/200MB disk packs.
I was looking for a long time for a video actually showing how the big
head actuator
of these drives moves when performing data operations!
And there are nice reel tape drives which look to me like rebadged IBM
drives (not sure, though).
Enjoy watching it! I did!
Kind regards,
Pierre
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Pierre's collection of classic computers moved to:
http://www.digitalheritage.de
--
Lee Courtney
+1-650-704-3934 cell
3093
days inactive
3102
days old
13 comments
9 participants
participants (9)
-
aek＠bitsavers.org -
andy.holt＠tesco.net -
brad＠heeltoe.com -
cclist＠sydex.com -
db＠db.net -
glen.slick＠gmail.com -
leec2124＠gmail.com -
p.gebhardt＠ymail.com -
RichA＠LivingComputerMuseum.org