10 May
2007
10 May
'07
12:21 p.m.
A few weeks
ago I bought a few USB serial port adapters, and they work fine on a
variety of PCs running various versions of Windows. Not, though, on a
Mac, which doesn't even see them.
Did they 'just work' or was a driver downloaded off the net to make them work?
The curse of Windows is every vendor doing things their own way, and the need
for thousands of incompatible drivers. You can extend this to USB drivers as
well. A USB async adapter can be implemented a bunch of different ways, going
as far back as Anchorchips devices that squirted code onto the adapter, up through
the current reduced cost devices that barely offer any tech docs on how they
work.
Vendors really only care about Windows support, and grudgingly give out info
to driver writers (or they have to reverse engineer the hardware to do it).
They also want to lock you into their device, so they have no interest in common
drivers.
Getting back to the original topic, as long as the protocol for the floppy adapter
is documented so that people can write USB drivers for it for other platforms, it
should not be an issue.
10 May
10 May
3:17 p.m.
On 10/05/2007 20:21, Al Kossow wrote:
Under Windows XP, "just worked". IIRC for older versions, there's a
driver. Haven't found one that works for Mac OS X yet.
--
Pete Peter Turnbull
Network Manager
University of York
A few weeks
ago I bought a few USB serial port adapters, and they work fine on a
variety of PCs running various versions of Windows. Not, though, on a
Mac, which doesn't even see them.
Did they 'just work' or was a driver downloaded off the net to make them
work? 
4:03 p.m.
All,
On 10/05/07, Pete Turnbull <pete at dunnington.plus.com> wrote:
On 10/05/2007 20:21, Al Kossow wrote:
Under Windows XP, "just worked". IIRC for older versions, there's a
driver. Haven't found one that works for Mac OS X yet.
A lot depends on the devices and how the OS handles the drivers. I
have two USB to serial adapters that work perfectly under OpenBSD.
When I initially got them they were not supported by the version I was
running, but a bit of googling showed that support was new and with an
upgrade - they just worked.
They are recognised as;
Prolific Technology Inc. USB-Serial Controller, rev 1.10/3.00
One of the things I find frustraiting is the lack of information that
Windows seems to provide about what devices it sees and the logical
arangement of the devices within the computer... However this is
drifting further off topic....
Simon
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Well, an engineer is not concerned with the truth; that is left to
philosophers and theologians: the prime concern of an engineer is
the utility of the final product."
Lectures on the Electrical Properties of Materials, L.Solymar, D.Walsh
A few
weeks
ago I bought a few USB serial port adapters, and they work fine on a
variety of PCs running various versions of Windows. Not, though, on a
Mac, which doesn't even see them.
Did they 'just work' or was a driver downloaded off the net to make them
work? 
4:19 p.m.
Did they
'just work' or was a driver downloaded off the net to make them
work?
Under Windows XP, "just worked". IIRC for older versions, there's a
driver. Haven't found one that works for Mac OS X yet. 
4:50 a.m.
Fred Cisin wrote:
the phrase "just worked" has two different
meanings. It can mean
"worked", or it can mean "barely worked"
If it is the PC remember -- barely worked.
I still love how crappy the PC I/O is -- you trade a serial port
for a USB hub if I remember how it first came out.
$99 for the cable from the pcb to AT slot. I still don't see any
improvement since the PC is crappy with interupts.
PS. I have digital camera -- too small and too many icons to figure out.
5:20 p.m.
On 10 May 2007 at 5:50, woodelf wrote:
If it is the PC remember -- barely worked.
I still love how crappy the PC I/O is -- you trade a serial port
for a USB hub if I remember how it first came out.
Well, you could also trade the same serial port for IrDA. Now, if
you wanted a serial port, USB and IrDA, you had a problem. :)
Cheers,
Chuck
5:35 a.m.
Chuck Guzis wrote:
On 10 May 2007 at 5:50, woodelf wrote:
Well, you could also trade the same serial port for
IrDA. Now, if
you wanted a serial port, USB and IrDA, you had a problem. :)
I'm I the only one?
Cheers,
Chuck
I also want old DOS for schematic capture
and PCB software - the *NEW* windows stuff is too much $$$.
5:46 p.m.
New subject: Schematic capture. Was:Re: USB drivers
I also want old DOS for schematic capture
and PCB software - the *NEW* windows stuff is too much $$$.
What do you want? Old war3z or something new and free?
- Diptrace seems to me the BEST el-cheapo schematic/pcb program. With a
very active developer (there is a maillist on yahoogroups where Stanislaw
Ruev not only fixes bugs but also adds features) and a nice interface, for
me is the winner. Very worthy of a nice and calm look.
- Eagle is nice if you can stand its UI. And the price is quite high if
you want to go above 100 x 80 mm. But it is free up there. Has a linux
version!!!
- CIRCAD hasn't autorouter, but I use it for ages. Fast as a bullet.
- KiCAD is a nice free program, also has a linux version.
With all this stuff, are you still looking for smartdraw and tango
DOS?!?
Greetz,
Alexandre
PS: No. Smartdraw, orcad and tango DOS aren't "abandonware" since there
is no such thing anyways.
7:19 a.m.
New subject: Schematic capture. Was:Re: USB drivers
Alexandre Souza wrote:
PS: No. Smartdraw, orcad and tango DOS aren't "abandonware" since
there is no such thing anyways.
But you can't *buy* tango anymore! The big problem I have with the *free*
stuff I have is that you have no 'fingers' for card edge connectors.
The lack of a 84 pin PLCC socket and a windows upgrade have kept me from
doing CPLD stuff. The fact I am still *hacking*1 on a tube amp has limited
my $$$ for a nice computer design, but I did get my PDP-8 clone going
so I can't say I don't have a classic machine.:)
*1 The improved design went *POOF* with lots of smoke ...
I found out later a diode was shorted for some reason in a full wave bridge.
So that is all I have to say on this list about abandonware.
Now to download the CPLD software --- now legacy software for what I need.
8:49 p.m.
New subject: Schematic capture. Was:Re: USB drivers
How offtopic can I go? :o)
But you can't *buy* tango anymore! The big problem
I have with the *free*
stuff I have is that you have no 'fingers' for card edge connectors.
The lack of a 84 pin PLCC socket and a windows upgrade have kept me from
doing CPLD stuff. The fact I am still *hacking*1 on a tube amp has limited
my $$$ for a nice computer design, but I did get my PDP-8 clone going
so I can't say I don't have a classic machine.:)
Love God for that ;o) You **have** fingers for card edge. If you don't
have, it is real easy to do, take a look in eagle as an example: You need to
do a 0.100" card edge connector. Setup the grid for 0.100", put a SMD pad
with the dimensions of the finger you want, cut it, paste how much you want
in the next grid positions. Do the same on the solder layer (assuming you
were in top layer). Presto, your card edge connector! ;o) I've done lots of
it here. About the 84pin PLCC socket, you have that in eagle. BTW eagle is -
at this moment - the most library-full program you can find, but diptrace is
coming closer, since it can import eagle's libraries, and there is a LOT of
them floating on the net, take a look at www.cadsoft.de. If you cannot find,
drop me a mail and I'll help you. I **don't** like eagle and the clunky UI,
but when you learn how to use that, it becomes easy. I created a component
(a PLCC-44 ZIF socket) and a board in less than 10 minutes, for a PLCC to
DIP adapter.
*1 The improved design went *POOF* with lots of smoke
...
I found out later a diode was shorted for some reason in a full wave
bridge.
So that is all I have to say on this list about abandonware.
Now to download the CPLD software --- now legacy software for what I need.
Dunno why legacy...are you wanting to mess with PAL/GAL? Later softwares
can do that.
9:24 a.m.
New subject: Schematic capture. Was:Re: USB drivers
Alexandre Souza wrote:
Umm 600 meg vs 41 meg on dial up. Three 64 CLB CPLD's and 6 2901's would
make a nice 12/24 bit slice. A few more CPLD's and you have your control
logic. That gets me a nice 3 MHZ cpu if my timing guess is right.
Using LS-TTL the same system is lucky to be in the 1 MHZ clock speed.
Love God for that ;o) You **have** fingers for card
edge. If you
don't have, it is real easy to do, take a look in eagle as an example:
You need to do a 0.100" card edge connector. Setup the grid for 0.100",
put a SMD pad with the dimensions of the finger you want, cut it, paste
how much you want in the next grid positions. Do the same on the solder
layer (assuming you were in top layer). Presto, your card edge
connector! ;o)
But just what are the dimensions?
I've done lots of it here. About the 84pin PLCC socket,
you have that in eagle. BTW eagle is - at this moment
- the most
library-full program you can find, but diptrace is coming closer, since
it can import eagle's libraries, and there is a LOT of them floating on
the net, take a look at www.cadsoft.de. If you cannot find, drop me a
mail and I'll help you. I **don't** like eagle and the clunky UI, but
when you learn how to use that, it becomes easy. I created a component
(a PLCC-44 ZIF socket) and a board in less than 10 minutes, for a PLCC
to DIP adapter.
It is the pin numbering I looking at here - a little odd in the corners.
*1 The
improved design went *POOF* with lots of smoke ...
I found out later a diode was shorted for some reason in a full wave
bridge.
So that is all I have to say on this list about abandonware.
Now to download the CPLD software --- now legacy software for what I
need.
Dunno why legacy...are you wanting to mess with PAL/GAL? Later
softwares can do that.
9:32 p.m.
New subject: Schematic capture. Was:Re: USB drivers
But just what are the dimensions?
I don't have it at my head. But in the AMP databook you can find all of
them!
It is the pin numbering I looking at here - a little
odd in the corners.
There are the numberings on datasheets! ;o)
Umm 600 meg vs 41 meg on dial up. Three 64 CLB
CPLD's and 6 2901's would
make a nice 12/24 bit slice. A few more CPLD's and you have your control
logic. That gets me a nice 3 MHZ cpu if my timing guess is right.
Using LS-TTL the same system is lucky to be in the 1 MHZ clock speed.
Why not an entire xlinx or altera FPGA?! There are cypress ENOURMOUS
CPLDs that are blazing fast!!!
10:17 a.m.
New subject: Schematic capture. Was:Re: USB drivers
Alexandre Souza wrote:
Arg! I am downloading the wrong software ... I want atmel winCUPL .
( Stops download -- since I can't get the serial proms for a altera fpga.
I knew I had a reason for not using FPGA's.)
That's what I get for reading email and downloading stuff.
Here is a guess for my system speed using LS parts not counting
timing skew and other design features for 6502 style clock.
Clock buffer 15 ns
74LS161 30 ns
74LS158 25 ns
74S472(prom) 60 ns
74LS173 20 ns
------------------
Total 150 ns for 1/4 phase. 600 ns memory cycle max speed.
But just what
are the dimensions?
I don't have it at my head. But in the AMP databook you can find all
of them!
It is the pin numbering I looking at here - a
little odd in the corners.
There are the numberings on datasheets! ;o)
Umm 600 meg vs 41 meg on dial up. Three 64 CLB
CPLD's and 6 2901's would
make a nice 12/24 bit slice. A few more CPLD's and you have your control
logic. That gets me a nice 3 MHZ cpu if my timing guess is right.
Using LS-TTL the same system is lucky to be in the 1 MHZ clock speed.
Why not an entire xlinx or altera FPGA?! There are cypress ENOURMOUS
CPLDs that are blazing fast!!!
.
11 May
11 May
4:27 a.m.
New subject: Schematic capture. Was:Re: USB drivers
Arg! I am downloading the wrong software ... I want
atmel winCUPL .
( Stops download -- since I can't get the serial proms for a altera fpga.
I knew I had a reason for not using FPGA's.)
Take a good look at cypress CPLDs, they don't need serial proms for
bitstream loading ;o)
2:26 a.m.
New subject: Schematic capture. Was:Re: USB drivers
Alexandre Souza wrote:
I CPLD's I have can be programed with the kit I have. The software
is not the problem. Building a computer is a big problem since
I am doing from scratch. The software/hardware is easy, building it
is hard since I have little PCB experience. Software is hard to since
I need a simple compiler to port ( Tiny C 1.0 I can port, but not later
versions ).
Arg! I am
downloading the wrong software ... I want atmel winCUPL .
( Stops download -- since I can't get the serial proms for a altera fpga.
I knew I had a reason for not using FPGA's.)
Take a good look at cypress CPLDs, they don't need serial proms for
bitstream loading ;o)
. 
12 May
12 May
12:52 a.m.
New subject: Schematic capture. Was:Re: USB drivers
Alexandre Souza said:
Almost no current CPLDs need serial proms at all. You are mixing up CPLDs
and FPGAs, I think. The capacity of CPLDs is by far lower than current
FPGAs.
--
Holger
Arg! I am
downloading the wrong software ... I want atmel winCUPL .
( Stops download -- since I can't get the serial proms for a altera
fpga.
I knew I had a reason for not using FPGA's.)
Take a good look at cypress CPLDs, they don't need serial proms for
bitstream loading ;o)
10 May
10 May
9:42 p.m.
New subject: Schematic capture. Was:Re: USB drivers
I think I've still got a copy of Schema SDT kicking around. Runs on
a floppy-only 5150 with a Herc graphics card and an Epson MX-80
printer. Is that retro enough?
Cheers,
Chuck
6:54 p.m.
New subject: Schematic capture. Was:Re: USB drivers
I use gEDA and PCB, all GPL software. Worry free from being abandoned.
vax, 9000
On 5/10/07, Alexandre Souza <alexandre-listas at e-secure.com.br> wrote:
I also want old DOS for schematic capture
and PCB software - the *NEW* windows stuff is too much $$$.
What do you want? Old war3z or something new and free?
- Diptrace seems to me the BEST el-cheapo schematic/pcb program. With
a
very active developer (there is a maillist on yahoogroups where Stanislaw
Ruev not only fixes bugs but also adds features) and a nice interface, for
me is the winner. Very worthy of a nice and calm look.
- Eagle is nice if you can stand its UI. And the price is quite high
if
you want to go above 100 x 80 mm. But it is free up there. Has a linux
version!!!
- CIRCAD hasn't autorouter, but I use it for ages. Fast as a bullet.
- KiCAD is a nice free program, also has a linux version.
With all this stuff, are you still looking for smartdraw and tango
DOS?!?
Greetz,
Alexandre
PS: No. Smartdraw, orcad and tango DOS aren't "abandonware" since
there
is no such thing anyways.
11 May
11 May
12:47 a.m.
New subject: Schematic capture. Was:Re: USB drivers
On May 10, 2007, at 9:54 PM, 9000 VAX wrote:
I use gEDA and PCB, all GPL software. Worry free from
being abandoned.
Seconded. I've done several commercial products with gEDA/PCB.
It's top-of-the-line stuff, and it runs on modern platforms.
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire
Port Charlotte, FL
10 May
10 May
4:50 p.m.
On 11/05/2007 00:19, Fred Cisin wrote:
the phrase "just worked" has two different meanings. It can mean
"worked", or it can mean "barely worked"
In this case, I meant "worked without fuss" :-)
--
Pete Peter Turnbull
Network Manager
University of York
Did they 'just work' or was a driver
downloaded off the net to make them
work?
Under Windows XP, "just worked". IIRC for older versions,
there's a
driver. Haven't found one that works for Mac OS X yet.
6434
days inactive
6436
days old
19 comments
10 participants
participants (10)
-
aek＠bitsavers.org -
alexandre-listas＠e-secure.com.br -
bfranchuk＠jetnet.ab.ca -
cclist＠sydex.com -
cisin＠xenosoft.com -
fryers＠gmail.com -
holger.veit＠iais.fraunhofer.de -
mcguire＠neurotica.com -
pete＠dunnington.plus.com -
vax9000＠gmail.com