13 Jun
2009
13 Jun
'09
1:22 p.m.
To my knowledge Amiga's went all the way!
I think the CD32 had one of the embedded chip CPU's (eg. 68ECxxxx), but I know
Amiga's definately went to the 68040.
Some did use the 68050 and 68060, but I don't know whether they were added later by
users or whether they were added at the factory.
Of course Natima is going to run the 68070, but don't quote me on that as I
haven't been following the project that closely.
Regards,
Andrew B
aliensrcooluk at yahoo.co.uk
--- On Sat, 13/6/09, blstuart at bellsouth.net <blstuart at bellsouth.net> wrote:
From: blstuart at bellsouth.net <blstuart at bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: All this talk of Unix and other OSes...
To: cctalk at classiccmp.org
Date: Saturday, 13 June, 2009, 5:56 PM
... has given me an itch to do some bare-metal work on
a classic, maybe
a standalone Forth or something.
Trouble is, I now have no "simple" classics.? I don't fancy starting off
doing this on an Amiga ;-)
Assuming you have at least 1M of memory in the Amiga,
a native Inferno port could be fun.? If your Amiga is
re-68020 (I can't remember how far Amigas went in
the family), you'll have to do a little work on the compiler
to keep it from assuming a 680x0, x>=2.
BLS
13 Jun
13 Jun
1:41 p.m.
To my knowledge Amiga's went all the way!
I think the CD32 had one of the embedded chip CPU's (eg. 68ECxxxx), but I know
Amiga's definately went to the 68040.
Cool. In that case, the Inferno 68020 compiler should
work in principle. However, it has received much less
attention and exercise in recent years. It was originally
used in building Plan9 on the NeXT and some other
machines (including, I think, the Gnot), and was used
in an attempt to port Inferno to the dragonball on some
Palms. So it may still need some attention, but should
basically be there.
BLS
2:52 p.m.
I think the CD32 had one of the embedded chip
CPU's (eg. 68ECxxxx), but I know Amiga's definately went to the 68040.
Some did use the 68050 and 68060, but I don't know whether they were added later by
users or whether they were added at the factory.
Of course Natima is going to run the 68070, but don't quote me on that as I
haven't been following the project that closely.
There was no such thing as a 68050 :)
And Commodore only ever sold Amiga's with maximum 68040s (on a plugin
board, as a sortoff 'upgrade directly from the factory'), 68060's are
entirely aftermarket, some very late A4000T's where sold with 68060's
but this was on a 3rd party Accelerator board.
Ofcourse, porting Inferno to Amiga would require quite a bit more
effort to also support graphics etc, the Amiga doesnt have character
modes, so you will have to implement a whole framebuffer and run a
console on top of that (linux fb originates from the m68k port for
exactly this reason).
Also, Natami will not use the '68070' (which was a 68000 based SOC),
but their own rather wonky idea of a improved 060.
3:35 p.m.
Ofcourse, porting Inferno to Amiga would require quite
a bit more
effort to also support graphics etc, the Amiga doesnt have character
modes, so you will have to implement a whole framebuffer and run a
console on top of that (linux fb originates from the m68k port for
exactly this reason).
That does complicate things a bit. However, if there's
an RS-232 port on the machine, then you could use
that for a console at least during initial development.
And in principle, osinit.dis could initialize the graphics
hardware and fire off the window manager, and you
wouldn't need to write the emulation of a character
mode.
BLS
6:58 p.m.
On Sat, 2009-06-13 at 14:35 -0500, blstuart at bellsouth.net wrote:
Window manager? It handles windows in hardware? Because that doesn't
sound like something available on bare metal to me...
Gordon
Ofcourse,
porting Inferno to Amiga would require quite a bit more
effort to also support graphics etc, the Amiga doesnt have character
modes, so you will have to implement a whole framebuffer and run a
console on top of that (linux fb originates from the m68k port for
exactly this reason).
That does complicate things a bit. However, if there's
an RS-232 port on the machine, then you could use
that for a console at least during initial development.
And in principle, osinit.dis could initialize the graphics
hardware and fire off the window manager, and you
wouldn't need to write the emulation of a character
mode.
7:27 p.m.
Window manager? It handles windows in hardware?
Because that doesn't
sound like something available on bare metal to me...
Gordon
No ofcourse it does not :)
And the Amiga doesnt have chunky graphics (ie, bitmap, '1 byte is a
pixel') so you will still need to implement a framebuffer on top of
the planar graphics, not that hard, but fairly serious work.
And yeah, there is serial which is driven by the CIA chips.
Another thing to mind is that most Amiga's came with CPU's with no
PMMU, many 68030 boards came with EC030's as a MMU was not used by
AmigaOS (only some 3rd party software used it for debugging
purposes).
11:23 p.m.
Another thing to mind is that most Amiga's came
with CPU's with no
PMMU, many 68030 boards came with EC030's as a MMU was not used by
AmigaOS (only some 3rd party software used it for debugging
purposes).
That wouldn't be a problem. Inferno doesn't use an MMU.
All applications execute on the Dis virtual machine (or are
JIT compiled). Seperation among processes and the kernel
are maintained there, rather than in hardware.
BLS
11:20 p.m.
And in
principle, osinit.dis could initialize the graphics
hardware and fire off the window manager, and you
wouldn't need to write the emulation of a character
mode.
Window manager? It handles windows in hardware? Because that doesn't
sound like something available on bare metal to me... 
3:09 p.m.
Andrew Burton wrote:
To my knowledge Amiga's went all the way!
I think the CD32 had one of the embedded chip CPU's (eg. 68ECxxxx), but I know
Amiga's definately went to the 68040.
Some did use the 68050 and 68060,
Using a 68050 in an Amiga would be a neat trick.
but I don't know whether they were added later by
users or whether they were added at the factory.
Of course Natima is going to run the 68070, but don't quote me on that as I
haven't been following the project that closely.
The 68070 is basically a slightly improved 68000 core (does not have
68020 or later instructions) with a bunch of on-chip I/O.
11:31 p.m.
New subject: Natima (was: All this talk of Unix and other OSes...)
At 5:22 PM +0000 6/13/09, Andrew Burton wrote:
Of course Natima is going to run the 68070, but
don't quote me on
that as I haven't been following the project that closely.
Natima? Google didn't pull up anything useful. What is this?
Zane
--
| Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator |
| healyzh at aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast |
| MONK::HEALYZH (DECnet) | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
| Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, |
| PDP-10 Emulation and Zane's Computer Museum. |
| http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ |
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9 comments
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aliensrcooluk＠yahoo.co.uk -
blstuart＠bellsouth.net -
eric＠brouhaha.com -
gordonjcp＠gjcp.net -
healyzh＠aracnet.com -
locutus＠puscii.nl