21 Oct
2001
21 Oct
'01
8:49 a.m.
Hello to all VAXenfolks,
i do have a problem with a VAX-11/730 that i have reconstructed
(cleaned,
resoldered, replaced cable, everything. Pictures on www.vaxcluster.de.
Yes,
i am a bit proud of it... But sorry for the bad web-page design!) over
the
last few months.
It is now willing to boot and tries to load it's microcode tape from the
TU-58 drives. I even have a microcode tape which looks like it could be
still readable.
But the TU-58's are so battered that i have not been able to read the
tape.
I have repaced the rubber rollers, but the read/write-heads look, ummm,
bad!
I have found somewhere some TU-58 simulator software for DOS which looks
like a promising alternative; i would place a mini-DOS-computer inside a
VT-102 and route some additional cables to the VAX and bee fine.
BUT: How do i get the contents of the microcode tape of the tape, into a
DOS file without access to a working TU-58?
Is someone on this list able to read the tape?
Has someone already made a tape image i could just use? I mean, i have
a original DEC tape, with serial number and all. I might even come up
with a license document, if i search long enough...
Any help would be greatly welcomed. This old lady is just to beautifull
to use it as an electric heater only...
Thank you
ms
--
Michael Schneider email: ms(a)silke.rt.schwaben.de
Germany http://www.vaxcluster.de
People disagree with me. I just ignore them.
(Linus Torvalds)
22 Oct
22 Oct
4:12 p.m.
Hi Michael,
I have a TU58 drive and could read the tape for you, but I am in
the USA so shipping could be an issue. You might try cleaning the
head with a cotton swab (Q-Tip) and rubbing alcohol (isopropyl
alcohol). I had a tape in the drive when a rubber roller went that
wouldn't read. I cleaned the head, read the tape, cleaned the head,
read the tape, cleaned the head, read the tape, until it read
without errors! Then I cleaned the head and threw the tape away...
Good luck!
clint
PS If you do get a dump, I'd appreciate a copy. I'm archiving all the
TU58s I can find to CD-Rs...
On Sun, 21 Oct 2001, Michael Schneider wrote:
Hello to all VAXenfolks,
i do have a problem with a VAX-11/730 that i have reconstructed
(cleaned,
resoldered, replaced cable, everything. Pictures on www.vaxcluster.de.
Yes,
i am a bit proud of it... But sorry for the bad web-page design!) over
the
last few months.
It is now willing to boot and tries to load it's microcode tape from the
TU-58 drives. I even have a microcode tape which looks like it could be
still readable.
But the TU-58's are so battered that i have not been able to read the
tape.
I have repaced the rubber rollers, but the read/write-heads look, ummm,
bad!
I have found somewhere some TU-58 simulator software for DOS which looks
like a promising alternative; i would place a mini-DOS-computer inside a
VT-102 and route some additional cables to the VAX and bee fine.
BUT: How do i get the contents of the microcode tape of the tape, into a
DOS file without access to a working TU-58?
Is someone on this list able to read the tape?
Has someone already made a tape image i could just use? I mean, i have
a original DEC tape, with serial number and all. I might even come up
with a license document, if i search long enough...
Any help would be greatly welcomed. This old lady is just to beautifull
to use it as an electric heater only...
Thank you
ms
--
Michael Schneider email: ms(a)silke.rt.schwaben.de
Germany http://www.vaxcluster.de
People disagree with me. I just ignore them.
(Linus Torvalds)
6:20 p.m.
Clint,
thank you for your offer. I'm into the "cleaning, reading, cleaning..."
cylce now (since Sunday, actually), but unfortunately it does not look
good; the tape drives report errors for every tape i have, but still i
don't know whether the tapes are bad or the drives. I'm kinda stuck with
that: without a booting '730, i can't test the tape drives. Without tape
or drive, the '730 does not boot.
So, could you send me (privately) your shipping address, just in case?
(Which means: i practically gave up....)
But, of course, if i get a dump, i'll send you a copy. No problem.
I'm even think about placing it on my Website for download. My
local Compaq "authorities" said they would not give a damn...
Haven't asked HP yet, though 8-)
ms
"Clint Wolff (VAX collector)" wrote:
Hi Michael,
I have a TU58 drive and could read the tape for you, but I am in
the USA so shipping could be an issue. You might try cleaning the
head with a cotton swab (Q-Tip) and rubbing alcohol (isopropyl
alcohol). I had a tape in the drive when a rubber roller went that
wouldn't read. I cleaned the head, read the tape, cleaned the head,
read the tape, cleaned the head, read the tape, until it read
without errors! Then I cleaned the head and threw the tape away...
Good luck!
clint
PS If you do get a dump, I'd appreciate a copy. I'm archiving all the
TU58s I can find to CD-Rs...
On Sun, 21 Oct 2001, Michael Schneider wrote:
> Hello to all VAXenfolks,
>
> i do have a problem with a VAX-11/730 that i have reconstructed
[snip]
--
Michael Schneider email: ms(a)silke.rt.schwaben.de
Germany http://www.vaxcluster.de
People disagree with me. I just ignore them.
(Linus Torvalds)
23 Oct
23 Oct
3:50 a.m.
Hi Michael,
My shipping address is:
Clint Wolff
11000 Chase Way
Westminster, CO 80020-3285
USA
Regards,
clint
On Tue, 23 Oct 2001, Michael Schneider wrote:
Clint,
thank you for your offer. I'm into the "cleaning, reading, cleaning..."
cylce now (since Sunday, actually), but unfortunately it does not look
good; the tape drives report errors for every tape i have, but still i
don't know whether the tapes are bad or the drives. I'm kinda stuck with
that: without a booting '730, i can't test the tape drives. Without tape
or drive, the '730 does not boot.
So, could you send me (privately) your shipping address, just in case?
(Which means: i practically gave up....)
But, of course, if i get a dump, i'll send you a copy. No problem.
I'm even think about placing it on my Website for download. My
local Compaq "authorities" said they would not give a damn...
Haven't asked HP yet, though 8-)
ms
"Clint Wolff (VAX collector)" wrote:
Hi Michael,
I have a TU58 drive and could read the tape for you, but I am in
the USA so shipping could be an issue. You might try cleaning the
head with a cotton swab (Q-Tip) and rubbing alcohol (isopropyl
alcohol). I had a tape in the drive when a rubber roller went that
wouldn't read. I cleaned the head, read the tape, cleaned the head,
read the tape, cleaned the head, read the tape, until it read
without errors! Then I cleaned the head and threw the tape away...
Good luck!
clint
PS If you do get a dump, I'd appreciate a copy. I'm archiving all the
TU58s I can find to CD-Rs...
On Sun, 21 Oct 2001, Michael Schneider wrote:
> Hello to all VAXenfolks,
>
> i do have a problem with a VAX-11/730 that i have reconstructed
[snip]
--
Michael Schneider email: ms(a)silke.rt.schwaben.de
Germany http://www.vaxcluster.de
People disagree with me. I just ignore them.
(Linus Torvalds)
15 Jan
15 Jan
9:22 a.m.
New subject: TU-58 dumps (was Re: VAX 11/730 Problem)
--- "Clint Wolff (VAX collector)" <vaxman(a)qwest.net> wrote:
PS If you do get a dump, I'd appreciate a copy.
I'm archiving all the
TU58s I can find to CD-Rs...
I'm doing the same thing. So far, I have about 20 tapes read in. :-(
The ones that have no read errors are fine. Most of the tapes take a
bit of work (lots of head cleaning and retrying). I have a quantity of
11/750 diagnostic tapes as well as boot tapes/standalone backup tapes.
Probably nothing horribly rare (except for partial VMS 3.x upgrade sets),
but you never know. We should trade tape titles sometime.
On Sun, 21 Oct 2001, Michael Schneider wrote:
> Hello to all VAXenfolks,
>
> i do have a problem with a VAX-11/730...
> It is now willing to boot and tries to load it's microcode tape from
> the TU-58 drives...
> But the TU-58's are so battered that i have not been able to read the
> tape.
>
> I have repaced the rubber rollers, but the read/write-heads look, ummm,
> bad!
>
> I have found somewhere some TU-58 simulator software for DOS which
> looks like a promising alternative; i would place a mini-DOS-computer
> inside a VT-102 and route some additional cables to the VAX and be
fine.
That's one way to do it. You could also mount the "mini-DOS" computer in
the 11/730 where you extracted the TU-58 from (depending on which style
of VAX you have, it might or might not be easy. If I were going to do
this (and I just might someday), I'd consider a Linux-based TU-58
emulator, and stick a tiny 486 in the base of the rack with a serial
cable going into the VAX (11/730 or 11/750), a spare serial cable
going to either a port on the VAX or a terminal server or the like, as
well as an ethernet connection to my LAN, so I could run a shell to
monitor the TU-58 tape images - manipulate file names, create "blanks"
for writing, that sort of thing. I'd also consider attaching a 4x20 LCD
display to the parallel port or a spare serial port, a-la LCDproc, with
a menu and a switch or two for easy "tape swapping". An old and slow
laptop might also be a good option. Don't need much horsepower to
flood a 38400 bps cable with bytes.
> BUT: How do i get the contents of the microcode
tape of the tape, into
> a DOS file without access to a working TU-58?
As you say... either someone reads it for you or you get an image from
someone else of something that's close.
> Is someone on this list able to read the tape?
Yes.
> Has someone already made a tape image i could
just use?
No. I could make one, but I don't have one at present, just real
11/730 console tapes.
> I mean, i have
> a original DEC tape, with serial number and all. I might even come up
> with a license document, if i search long enough...
Do you have access to another VAX? I used to cut console tapes all the
time for our 11/730 (k-panda when it was in the UUCP maps) - I still
have it (and the tapes).
The tape from DEC was sub-optimized. I wrote a quick DCL script to
write the files in optimal order and sped up boot time to under 3
minutes. It was not an original idea, but it did work *great* (the
microprocessor in the TU-58 caches the directory AFAIK, so if you ask
for the next sequential file on the tape, it doesn't have to seek back
to the front to locate it - you just spin the tape to read it).
> Any help would be greatly welcomed. This old lady
is just to beautifull
> to use it as an electric heater only...
Did you ever get a tape for your machine (this is an old message, after
all)? If not, this past weekend, I happened to run across the box with
my old console tapes (which is why I'm writing now). Let me know the
numbers off of your tape (since there are different revs of the stuff
on the tape, and something on there might or might not be VMS-version
dependent).
If you ever did get things running, I know it's possible to build new
tapes from a running machine. I'd have to find my program on a backup
tape; I know I don't have it handy, and that 11/730 is in storage.
-ethan
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10:14 a.m.
New subject: TU-58 dumps (was Re: VAX 11/730 Problem)
See below...
On Wed, 2002-01-16 at 00:22, Ethan Dicks wrote:
Yes, but only newer ones, nothing with a tu58.
No, no tapes up to now.
My console tape reads:
BE-T173I-ME
TU58:34 VAX 11725/739 CONSOLE
(c) 1982,84
an was cut Jun21/84.
Unfortunately i do not know the exact VMS version installed on my
machine, because the only time got it booting i was so exited that
i spoiled my notes. Very un-scientific, i know.
But i think it is VMS 3.2, IIRC. Or 3.6, that's the label on my
"standalon backup"-tape.
--- "Clint Wolff (VAX collector)"
<vaxman(a)qwest.net> wrote:
[snip]
PS If you do get a dump, I'd appreciate a
copy. I'm archiving all the
TU58s I can find to CD-Rs...
That's one way to do it. You could also mount the "mini-DOS" computer in
the 11/730 where you extracted the TU-58 from (depending on which style
of VAX you have, it might or might not be easy. If I were going to do
this (and I just might someday), I'd consider a Linux-based TU-58
emulator, and stick a tiny 486 in the base of the rack with a serial
cable going into the VAX (11/730 or 11/750), a spare serial cable
going to either a port on the VAX or a terminal server or the like, as
well as an ethernet connection to my LAN, so I could run a shell to
monitor the TU-58 tape images - manipulate file names, create "blanks"
for writing, that sort of thing. I'd also consider attaching a 4x20 LCD
display to the parallel port or a spare serial port, a-la LCDproc, with
a menu and a switch or two for easy "tape swapping". An old and slow
laptop might also be a good option. Don't need much horsepower to
flood a 38400 bps cable with bytes.
That's more or less what i have in mind. Especially since i now have a
spare old Compaq Contura, nice and small.
> > BUT: How do i get the contents of the microcode tape of the tape, into
[snip]
> I mean, i
have
> a original DEC tape, with serial number and all. I might even come up
> with a license document, if i search long enough...
Do you have access to another VAX? I used to cut console tapes all the
time for our 11/730 (k-panda when it was in the UUCP maps) - I still
have it (and the tapes).
The tape from DEC was sub-optimized. I wrote a quick DCL script to
write the files in optimal order and sped up boot time to under 3
minutes. It was not an original idea, but it did work *great* (the
microprocessor in the TU-58 caches the directory AFAIK, so if you ask
for the next sequential file on the tape, it doesn't have to seek back
to the front to locate it - you just spin the tape to read it).
Oh, yes, the original tape is just bloated. But under 3 Minutes? That
sounds impressing.
> Any help would be greatly welcomed. This old
lady is just to beautifull
> to use it as an electric heater only...
Did you ever get a tape for your machine (this is an old message, after
all)? If not, this past weekend, I happened to run across the box with
my old console tapes (which is why I'm writing now). Let me know the
numbers off of your tape (since there are different revs of the stuff
on the tape, and something on there might or might not be VMS-version
dependent).
If you ever did get things running, I know it's possible to build new
tapes from a running machine. I'd have to find my program on a backup
tape; I know I don't have it handy, and that 11/730 is in storage.
Hmm, yes, i think i even have some documentation about this. I'll have
to look.
-ethan
Again: Any help would be more than appreciated!
And, tell me what i can do for you!
cheers
ms
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--
Michael Schneider email: ms(a)vaxcluster.de
Germany http://www.vaxcluster.de
People disagree with me. I just ignore them.
(Linus Torvalds)
16 Jan
16 Jan
2:53 a.m.
New subject: TU-58 dumps (was Re: VAX 11/730 Problem)
--- Michael Schneider <ms(a)silke.rt.schwaben.de> wrote:
OK... if you had a newer VAX with the right version on it, you could,
theoretically, get the files you need from that new VAX and run a
serial line to that emulator PC (at a slower baud rate, probably) and
"write" the emulated tape image to your emulator box from the working
VAX, then move the cable, up the speed to 38400, and have the 11/730
feed off of that. The rub is that I don't recall how much of the console
data files are available in the regular SYS$SYSTEM directory structure
and how many I may or may not have pulled from a working tape. The
boot files are just text, short and easy to recreate, even with EDT.
The binary files are the problem.
The reason for using the other VAX is to use it to easily create the
filesystem on the emulated tape. If you had a way to read the tape
that you do have, you could just put the image on the PC, run the
TU-58 emulator and go.
It's not so much bloated as poorly sorted. An optimized tape has the heads
right over the next block to be read, so there's no end-to-end seeking
to find the next file - it's *right there*
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See below...
Do you have
access to another VAX? I used to cut console tapes all the
time for our 11/730 (k-panda when it was in the UUCP maps) - I still
have it (and the tapes).
Yes, but only newer ones, nothing with a tu58. The tape from
DEC was sub-optimized...
Oh, yes, the original tape is just bloated. But under 3 Minutes? That
sounds impressing. > Did you ever get a tape for your machine...
No, no tapes up to now.
OK.
My console tape reads:
BE-T173I-ME
TU58:34 VAX 11725/739 CONSOLE
(c) 1982,84
OK. Sounds standard.
an was cut Jun21/84.
Somewhat old - probably the very original tape that shipped with
the CPU.
Unfortunately i do not know the exact VMS version
installed on my
machine, because the only time got it booting i was so exited that
i spoiled my notes. Very un-scientific, i know.
Ah, well.
But i think it is VMS 3.2, IIRC. Or 3.6, that's
the label on my
"standalon backup"-tape.
Hmm... my memory of those days is hazy... I played with 3.6, but that
was as a novice user on an 11/750. We did get an early model 11/730
(order the week they were announced) - that's the one I have in storage.
By the time I touched it, it was running VMS 4.x. I installed Ultrix 1.1
on it at one point (and hooked it to Usenet before the Great Renaming,
but that's another story), and it spent its last years as a linker box
for our product, running 5.x (we fed the objects and asm source to it
via 56K DECnet link, let it chew on the files, then transferred the
binaries back to our VMS 4.6 general-use 11/750 and put them in the tape
build area for making distribution tapes)
I think all I am going to have for it is VMS 4.x and VMS 5.x console
media. I am fairly certain I had my customized tape for booting VMS 4.4
in my hands on Sunday. I know exactly where it is. If that will work
for you, I may be able to help. I honestly do not recall how sensitive
the machine is to console tape version vs VMS version mismatch. I know
we didn't have to change the tapes on minor revs, but I do not recall
if we were forced to change for major revs.
-ethan
If you ever did get things running, I know it's possible to build new
tapes from a running machine. I'd have to find my program on a backup
tape; I know I don't have it handy, and that 11/730 is in storage.
Hmm, yes, i think i even have some documentation about this. I'll have
to look.
-ethan
Again: Any help would be more than appreciated!
And, tell me what i can do for you!
cheers
ms
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--
Michael Schneider email: ms(a)vaxcluster.de
Germany http://www.vaxcluster.de
People disagree with me. I just ignore them.
(Linus Torvalds)
3:53 a.m.
New subject: TU-58 dumps (was Re: VAX 11/730 Problem)
On Wed, 16 Jan 2002, Ethan Dicks wrote:
The reason for using the other VAX is to use it to easily create the
filesystem on the emulated tape. If you had a way to read the tape
that you do have, you could just put the image on the PC, run the
TU-58 emulator and go.
OK, the reason I haven't joined this thread before is that I'm almost
entirely ignorant wrt console tapes. Plus, up to this point an emulated
TU-58 wouldn't get data off the orphan tapes, so an emulator wouldn't
help much.
My question is, why go the small-PC route instead of using something
like the TU-58 emulator at
http://www.sparetimegizmos.com/Hardware/TU58_Emulator.htm ?
It is really a question, not a suggestion. I think I'm missing a
point somewhere....
Doc
7:34 a.m.
New subject: TU-58 dumps (was Re: VAX 11/730 Problem)
Because i have a spare, small laptop. That's why.
The emulator-board from http://www.sparetimegizmos.com/ is a very good
way to implement a TU-58 emulator, but i do not have one.
Yet. 8-)
ms
On Wed, 2002-01-16 at 18:53, Doc wrote:
On Wed, 16 Jan 2002, Ethan Dicks wrote:
--
Michael Schneider email: ms(a)vaxcluster.de
Germany http://www.vaxcluster.de
People disagree with me. I just ignore them.
(Linus Torvalds)
The reason for using the other VAX is to use it to easily create the
filesystem on the emulated tape. If you had a way to read the tape
that you do have, you could just put the image on the PC, run the
TU-58 emulator and go.
OK, the reason I haven't joined this thread before is that I'm almost
entirely ignorant wrt console tapes. Plus, up to this point an emulated
TU-58 wouldn't get data off the orphan tapes, so an emulator wouldn't
help much.
My question is, why go the small-PC route instead of using something
like the TU-58 emulator at
http://www.sparetimegizmos.com/Hardware/TU58_Emulator.htm ?
It is really a question, not a suggestion. I think I'm missing a
point somewhere....
Doc
2:30 p.m.
New subject: TU-58 dumps (was Re: VAX 11/730 Problem)
--- Doc <doc(a)mdrconsult.com> wrote:
On Wed, 16 Jan 2002, Ethan Dicks wrote:
Not if you were starting from absolute scratch. One idea I had was that
if you had another VAX, one that has the binary files that the console
tape needs (the text files can be fairly easily created - they are less
than a page of text each), there might be a way to squirt the files into
the TU-58 emulator that could be pulled back out by the target 11/730.
The reason for using the other VAX is to use it to easily create the
filesystem on the emulated tape. If you had a way to read the tape
that you do have, you could just put the image on the PC, run the
TU-58 emulator and go.
OK, the reason I haven't joined this thread before is that I'm almost
entirely ignorant wrt console tapes. Plus, up to this point an emulated
TU-58 wouldn't get data off the orphan tapes, so an emulator wouldn't
help much. My question is, why go the small-PC route instead of
using something
like the TU-58 emulator at
http://www.sparetimegizmos.com/Hardware/TU58_Emulator.htm ?
It is really a question, not a suggestion. I think I'm missing a
point somewhere....
The point, at least for me, is that, while the hardware emulator is
cool, the software/PC emulator is cheaper by loads - more power draw,
but it doesn't have to be on full-time. Personally, I would probably
throw a 16Mb box w/multiple serial ports and an ethernet port, all
Linux-friendly. That way, I could log in remotely from another point
on my network, and play with the files used by the emulator. DOS would
not allow that. Hey... you could even throw up Apache and put the
emulator data files in a place that could be inspected by a cgi-script
for "web-u-lation". :-)
I think the hardware-based TU-58 emulator is really cool, but I'm more
likely to throw together something in a $10 PeeCee-oid box.
-ethan
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17 Jan
17 Jan
10:32 a.m.
New subject: TU-58 dumps (was Re: VAX 11/730 Problem)
I've been looking for a cheap laptop with a decent display that I can
put a dual serial PCMCIA card and a network interface into.
/dev/tty1 - 11/750 console
/dev/tty2 - TU58 emulator to 11/750
/dev/tty3 - 11/750 emulator <grin> to TU58
That way I can read/write/load TU58s, back them up to/from the network,
and also have a console terminal. By running FreeBSD (or equiv), I can
have PDF files etc available for reference if required.
My final goal is to design and build a SMD drive emulator that plugs
into the PCI bus, and serve disks to the 11/750 (and 11/780) from
files on the local hard drive of a full blown PC. The power draw
of a modern PC is a LOT less than a single 14" Fujitsu drive, and
the disks are more reliable...
Clint
On Wed, 16 Jan 2002, Ethan Dicks wrote:
--- Doc <doc(a)mdrconsult.com> wrote:
On Wed, 16 Jan 2002, Ethan Dicks wrote:
Not if you were starting from absolute scratch. One idea I had was that
if you had another VAX, one that has the binary files that the console
tape needs (the text files can be fairly easily created - they are less
than a page of text each), there might be a way to squirt the files into
the TU-58 emulator that could be pulled back out by the target 11/730.
The reason for using the other VAX is to use it to easily create the
filesystem on the emulated tape. If you had a way to read the tape
that you do have, you could just put the image on the PC, run the
TU-58 emulator and go.
OK, the reason I haven't joined this thread before is that I'm almost
entirely ignorant wrt console tapes. Plus, up to this point an emulated
TU-58 wouldn't get data off the orphan tapes, so an emulator wouldn't
help much. My question is, why go the small-PC route
instead of using something
like the TU-58 emulator at
http://www.sparetimegizmos.com/Hardware/TU58_Emulator.htm ?
It is really a question, not a suggestion. I think I'm missing a
point somewhere....
The point, at least for me, is that, while the hardware emulator is
cool, the software/PC emulator is cheaper by loads - more power draw,
but it doesn't have to be on full-time. Personally, I would probably
throw a 16Mb box w/multiple serial ports and an ethernet port, all
Linux-friendly. That way, I could log in remotely from another point
on my network, and play with the files used by the emulator. DOS would
not allow that. Hey... you could even throw up Apache and put the
emulator data files in a place that could be inspected by a cgi-script
for "web-u-lation". :-)
I think the hardware-based TU-58 emulator is really cool, but I'm more
likely to throw together something in a $10 PeeCee-oid box.
-ethan
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16 Jan
16 Jan
7:29 a.m.
New subject: TU-58 dumps (was Re: VAX 11/730 Problem)
On Wed, 2002-01-16 at 17:53, Ethan Dicks wrote:
I think so. The machine comes from a measurement installation of one of
our local gouvernment agencies. They validated beer-keg-volumes
(obviously a very important thing to do in Germany 8-).
So, it was just set up, fired up and left running 'till it has been
replaced in the '90s.
Well, the bean-counters obviously never upgraded VMS on this one, so, my
guess is that the version of VMS installed is the one that has been
deliverede back then.
--- Michael Schneider <ms(a)silke.rt.schwaben.de> wrote:
OK... if you had a newer VAX with the right version on it, you could,
theoretically, get the files you need from that new VAX and run a
serial line to that emulator PC (at a slower baud rate, probably) and
"write" the emulated tape image to your emulator box from the working
VAX, then move the cable, up the speed to 38400, and have the 11/730
feed off of that. The rub is that I don't recall how much of the console
data files are available in the regular SYS$SYSTEM directory structure
and how many I may or may not have pulled from a working tape. The
boot files are just text, short and easy to recreate, even with EDT.
The binary files are the problem.
Especially the file(s) with the CPU's microcode. They are definitively
not part of a standard VMS installation. The VMS tape, i mean.
Otherwise, your method would work, i think.
See below...
Do you
have access to another VAX? I used to cut console tapes all the
time for our 11/730 (k-panda when it was in the UUCP maps) - I still
have it (and the tapes).
Yes, but only newer ones, nothing with a tu58.
The reason for using the other VAX is to use it to easily create the
filesystem on the emulated tape. If you had a way to read the tape
that you do have, you could just put the image on the PC, run the
TU-58 emulator and go.
How true! You see the Catch-22 i'm in? If i had a working tape, i could
make me a working tape-image, so i would not need a working tape
anymore.
> > The tape from DEC was sub-optimized...
>
[snip]
an was cut Jun21/84.
Somewhat old - probably the very original tape that shipped with
the CPU. Unfortunately i do not know the exact VMS version
installed on my
machine, because the only time got it booting i was so exited that
i spoiled my notes. Very un-scientific, i know.
Ah, well.
But i think it is VMS 3.2, IIRC. Or 3.6,
that's the label on my
"standalon backup"-tape.
Hmm... my memory of those days is hazy... I played with 3.6, but that
was as a novice user on an 11/750. We did get an early model 11/730
(order the week they were announced) - that's the one I have in storage.
By the time I touched it, it was running VMS 4.x. I installed Ultrix 1.1
on it at one point (and hooked it to Usenet before the Great Renaming,
but that's another story), and it spent its last years as a linker box
for our product, running 5.x (we fed the objects and asm source to it
via 56K DECnet link, let it chew on the files, then transferred the
binaries back to our VMS 4.6 general-use 11/750 and put them in the tape
build area for making distribution tapes)
I think all I am going to have for it is VMS 4.x and VMS 5.x console
media. I am fairly certain I had my customized tape for booting VMS 4.4
in my hands on Sunday. I know exactly where it is. If that will work
for you, I may be able to help. I honestly do not recall how sensitive
the machine is to console tape version vs VMS version mismatch. I know
we didn't have to change the tapes on minor revs, but I do not recall
if we were forced to change for major revs.
This, i don't know either. I would have to try this.
[snip]
regards
ms
--
Michael Schneider email: ms(a)vaxcluster.de
Germany http://www.vaxcluster.de
People disagree with me. I just ignore them.
(Linus Torvalds)
1:08 p.m.
New subject: TU-58 dumps (was Re: VAX 11/730 Problem)
Quothe Ethan Dicks, from writings of Tue, Jan 15, 2002 at 03:22:12PM -0800:
--- "Clint Wolff (VAX collector)"
<vaxman(a)qwest.net> wrote:
Here's a listing of the tapes that I have; are any of the following of
particular interest? Alas, I've not gotten my tape drive to work yet,
so I don't know definitely what is or isn't on these tapes, but if I
can get it to work, I'll copy the data. I created the following list
several years ago:
Console:
BE-T204A-DE TU58#41 VAX/750 Local Console (for V3.0, 1982). 2
VMS V3.2 LOCAL CONSOLE. 2
VAX/VMS 4.0 Console Boot, 11-84 -- March 10. 1
VAX 11/750 CONSOLE VMS 4.1A 2
VAX/VMS 4.4 11/750 Console 7/3/86. 1
CONSOLE VAX/VMS V4.4 CI REV7 TU58 2
VAX/VMS V4.5 Console(c) TU58 REV 7 11-750 12/8/86. 2
VAX/VMS V4.5 CONSOLE TU58 11750 (1986) 2
V5.3 CONSOLE 2
BE-T173J-DE VERSION 58 TU58#34 VAX 11/730 CONSOLE (1982) 2
BE-T173D-DE TU58#34 VAX 11730 CONSOLE (1983). 2
1984 CONSOLE. 2
BE-T204H-ME 021205 TU58#41 VAX11750 CONSOLE (1985). 2
Console DEC Standard (1985/1986, J-series?). 2
BSD:
4.2 BSD VAX UNIX System 8/23/83 Dist'n cassette: NOT a boot cassette.
Contains standalone disk format. Copied 2/24/87. 1
VMS:
Standalone backup VAX/VMS Patched MMDRIVER 1/2. 1
Standalone backup VAX/VMS Patched MMDRIVER 2/2. 1
VMS 4.2 W/SI upgrade. 1
BE-J298C-SE VS11-VAX DRVR V2.1 SRC TU58 (1982). 2
BE-K438D-BE VAX 2780/3780 PE V1.4 BIN TU58 (1983). 2
BE-K438D-BE VAX 2780/3780 PE V1.4 BIN TU58 (1983). 2
VAX-11 2780/3780 PROTOCOL EMULATOR 1/1. 2
Custom 750 boot GETVUB FP VEXSIM Jan. 31, 1986. 2
BE-S202M-DE TU58#9 CR/DISK USER MODE (1983). 2
BE-T538E-ME 021279 TU58#3 VAX 11750 MICRO PATCH (1984). 2
PCS 750 ECSAA E+E 6.15 EVSBA E+E 7.3 2
BE-S200I-DE TU58#7 VAX 11 HARDCORE INSTR (1980,84) 2
BE-S200G-DE TU58#7 VAX 11 HARDCORE INSTR EVKAB (1980,83) 2
BE-T538E-ME 029566 TU58#3 VAX 11750 MICRO PATCH (1984,84) 2
Curiosities:
Unlabeled. 1
Unlabeled. 1
Unlabeled. 1
Unlabeled. 1
#16. 1
Unlabeled. 1
Unlabeled. 1
Unlabeled. 1
Unlabeled. 1
Unlabeled. 1
M # 2. 1
Unlabeled. 2
BAD. 2
M # 1. 2
? 2
? 2
? 2
VMS:
BE-N204A-BE VAX/VMS MANDATORY BIN TU58 (VMS MAND FOR V3.0, 1982). 2
BE-N470A-BE VAX/VMS V3.1 RTL FIX BIN TU58 (1982). 1
BE-N466A-BE VAX/VMS V3.1 BIN T58 1/4 (1982). 1
BE-N467A-BE VAX/VMS V3.1 BIN T58 2/4 (1982). 1
BE-N468A-BE VAX/VMS V3.1 BIN T58 3/4 (1982). 1
BE-N469A-BE VAX/VMS V3.1 BIN T58 4/4 (1982). 1
BE-P758A-BE VAX/VMS V3.2 BIN T58 1/4 (Update, 1983). 2
BE-P760A-BE VAX/VMS V3.2 BIN T58 3/4 (Update, 1983). 2
BE-P761A-BE VAX/VMS V3.2 BIN T58 4/4 (1983). 2
VAX/VMS Installation Package 9900-8741 SI303 REV:A V3.2 April 25, 1983. 1
BE-W590A-BE VAX/VMS V3.3 MAN UPD T58 (1983). 1
BE-U405A-BE VAX/VMS V3.3 BIN T58 1/4 (1983). 1
BE-U406A-BE VAX/VMS V3.3 BIN T58 2/4 (1983). 1
BE-U406A-BE VAX/VMS V3.3 BIN T58 2/4 (1983). 2
BE-U407A-BE VAX/VMS V3.3 BIN T58 3/4 (1983). 1
BE-V547A-BE VAX/VMS V3.3 BIN T58 4/4 (1983). 1
BE-W590A-BE VAX/VMS V3.3 MAN UPD T58 (1983). 2
BE-W733A-BE VAX/VMS V3.4 BIN T58 3/5 (1983). 2
BE-W735A-BE VAX/VMS V3.4 BIN T58 5/5 (1983). 2
BE-W735A-BE VAX/VMS V3.4 BIN T58 5/5 (1983). 1
BE-Z280A-BE VAX/VMS V3.5 BIN T58 2/4 (1983). 2
BE-BL76A-BE VAX/VMS V3.6 BIN T58, 1984. 1
BE-CJ32A-BE VAX/VMS V3.7 BIN T58 (1984). 1
BE-CJ32A-BE VAX/VMS V3.7 BIN T58 (1984). 2
BE-EF47A-BE 089320 VAX/VMS V4.1 UPD BIN TU58 1/4 (1985). 2
BE-EF49A-BE 021053 VAX/VMS V4.1 UPD BIN TU58 3/4 (1985). 2
BE-EF50A-BE 021040 VAX/VMS V4.1 UPD BIN TU58 4/4 (1985). 2
BE-EF50A-BE 021028 VAX/VMS V4.1 UPD BIN TU58 4/4 (1985). 2
BE-FY82A-E 038705 VAX/VMS V4.2 BIN TU58 MANDATORY UPDATE (1985). 2
BE-GZ54A-VE 049516 VAX/VMS V4.3 IN TU58 2/4 (1985). 2
BE-GZ55A-BE 049513 VAX/VMS V4.3 BIN TU58 3/4 (1985). 2
BE-GZ56A-BE 049511 VAX/VMS V4.3 BIN TU58 4/4 (1985). 2
Standalone Backup System_2 VMS 4.4 2/4. 1
Standalone Backup System_3 VMS 4.4 3/4. 1
Standalone Backup Backup VMS 4.4 4/4. 1
STABACKUP 2/4 SYSTEM_2 V4.5 12/86. 2
STABACKUP SYSTEM_3 3/4 V4.5 12/86. 2
BE-CT98D-E 0MUN0S2047 VMS 5.0 S/A BKUP TU58 2/5 (1988). 2
BE-CT97E-BE 000MUB6955 VMS 5.2 S/A BKUP TU58 1/5 (1989). 2
BE-CT99E-BE 000MUB6572 VMS V5.2 S/A BKUP TU58 3/5 (1989). 2
BE-LT91B-BE 000MUB6845 VMS V5.2 S/A BKUP TU58 5/5 (1989). 2
V5.2 7 bad blocks. 2
VAX 1 BOOT DUA1 DISK 6-22-90. 1
BE-HP51C-BE 0MUN0S2061 VMS S/A BKUP TU58 4/5 (1988). 2
BE-Z281A-BE VAX/VMS V3.5 BIN T58 3/4 (1983). 2
BE-W732A-BE VAX/VMS V3.4 BIN T58 2/5 (1983). 2
STABACKUP BACKUP 4/4 V4.5 12/86. 2
BE-HP51D-BE 000MUB7467 VMS V5.2 S/A BKUP TU58 4/5 (1989). 2
BE-EF48A-BE 089341 VAX/VMS V4.1 UPD BIN TU58 2/4 (1985). 2
BE-M758A-BE VAX/VMS V3.2 S/A BKUP T58 2/2 (1982). 2
BE-W735A-BE VAX/VMS V3.4 BIN T58 5/5 (1983). 2
BE-EF48A-BE 089344 VAX/VMS V4.1 UPD BIN TU58 2/4 (1985). 2
4.4 SABCKUP 3/4. 2
STABACKUP 1/4 SYSTEM-1 V4.5 12/86 2
BE-CT97D-BE 0MUN0S2041 VMS V5.0 S/A BKUP TU58 1/5 (1988) 2
BE-W733A-BE VAX/VMS V3.4 BIN T58 3/5 (1983) 2
BE-U450A-BE VAX/VMS V3.3 BIN T58 1/4 (1983) 2
BE-CT98E-BE 000MUB6958 VMS 5.2 S/A BKUP TU58 2/5 (1989) 2
BE-FY82B-BE 057012 VAX/VMS V4.4 BIN TU58 MANDATORY UPDATE (1986) 2
BE-LT91A-BE 0MUN0S2071 VMS V5.0 S/A BKUP TU58 5/5 (1988) 2
BE-Z279A-BE VAX/VMS V3.5 BIN T58 1/4 (1983) 2
VMS 4.4 18MAY87 SYSTEM #1 2
BE-W731A-BE VAX/VMS V3.4 BIN T58 1/5 (1983) 2
BE-U407A-BE VAX/VMS V3.3 BIN T58 3/4 (1983) 2
VMS 4.4 SYSTEM#3 18MAY87 2
BE-V547A-BE VAX/VMS V3.3 BIN T58 4/4 (1983) 2
4.4 SABCKUP 2/4 2
BE-CT99D-BE 0MUN0S2265 VMS V5.0 S/A BKUP TU58 3/5 (1988) 2
BE-EF47A-BE 089323 VAX/VMS V4.1 UPD BIN TU58 1/4 (1985) 2
BE-Z282A-BE VAX/VMS V3.5 BIN T58 4/4 (1983) 2
BE-Z236A-BE 179511 VAX/VMS 4.0 MAN/UPD T58 (1984) 2
BE-W734A-BE VAX/VMS V3.4 BIN T58 4/5 (1983) 2
BE-P759A-BE VAX/VMS V3.2 BIN T58 2/4 (1983) 2
BE-GZ53A-BE 049518 VAX/VMS V4.3 BIN TU58 1/4 (1985) 2
BE-BL76A-BE VAX/VMS V3.6 BIN T58 (1984) 2
BE-EF49A-BE 057471 VAX/VMS V4.1 UPD BIN TU58 3/4 (1985) 2
4.4 SABCKUP 1/4 2
V5 BOOT TAPE - NG 2
Diagnostics/Hardware:
UDA 50/RA81 DIAGS. 1
BE-S200G-DE TU58#7 VAX 11 HARDCORE INSTR (1983). 1
BE-S405E-DE TU58#20 VAX SYS EXR/BUS INIT (1982). 1
BE-S202K-DE TU58#9 CR/DISK USER MODE (1982). 1
BE-T285A-DE TU58#43 VAX BUS TEST DIAG (1982). 1
BE-T538A-DE TU58#3 VAX 11750 MICRODIAG (1983). 2
BE-S198I-DE TU58#5 VAX750 CACHETB/MEM EXR (1992). 2
BE-T177C-DE TU58#37 VAX 11730 LOAD PATH (1982). 2
BE-T536E-DE 015222 TU58#51 VAX AUTOSIZER DIAG (1985). 2
BE-S405E-DE TU58#20 VAX SYS EXR/BUS INIT (1982). 2
BE-S402P-AE TU58#17 VAX 11750 RD DIAG (1983). 2
BE-U011-DE 045764 TU58#71 VAX TU81 DIAG (1984). 2
BE-T142C-DE TU58#33 VAX BUS DIAGNOSTICS EVDAA ECCBA (1983). 2
BE-T174B-DE TU58#39 VAX 11730 IDC DIAG (1982). 2
BE-S205C-DE TU58#12 RK611 DIAG #2 EVREC EVRED EVREE (1982). 2
BE-S208I-DE TU58#15 TS11/TE16/TU45/77DIAG (1982). 2
BE-S405F-DE TU58#20 VAX SYS EXR/BUS INIT (1983). 2
BE-T176-DE TU58#26 VAX 11730 MICRODIAG (1982) 2
BE-S207C-DE TU58#14 RM03/RM05 (1980,81) 2
BE-S199P-DE TU58#6 VAX 11750 DIAG SUPER DS7 (1981,83) 2
BE-S200E-DE TU58#7 VAX 11 HARDCORE INSTR (1980,82) 2
BE-S199M-DE TU58#6 VAX 11750 DIAG SUPER (1980,82) 2
BE-S202K-DE TU58#9 CR/DISK USER MODE (1980,82) 2
BE-S0290-DE ECKAA V8.05 TU51#1 11750 MICRO DPM V9.01 (1981,83) 2
BE-T285B-DE TU58#43 VAX BUS TEST DIAG (1982) 2
BE-S198K-DE TU58#5 VAX750 CACHETB/MEM/EXR ECKAM ECKAL (1981,83) 2
BE-S402S-AE TU58#17 VAX 11750 RD DIAG (1981,84) 2
BE-T300B-DE TU58#44 VAX UDA50/RA80-1 DIAG (1982) 2
BE-S199W-DE 015225 TU58#6 VAX 11750 DIAG SUPER (1981,85) 2
3rd Party - System Industries
System Industries - SI LINK TAPE 9904-8701-9 REV. A1 V1.6A Date: 7/27/88. 1
3rd Party - Emulex
EMULEX VD9960401 REV D VAX/VMS DEVICE DRIVERS VERSION 2.0. 1
EMULEX VD9960401 REV E VAX/VMS DEVICE DRIVERS. 1
3rd Party - DISC
DISC-Digital Information Systems Corp.
DBL V3.1 for use under VMS -DEMO-
May 10, 1983. Expires 5/30/83. 2
HSC
HSC50 Utilities V2.50 12/18/85. 2
BE-FN04B-BK 092482 HSC SOFTWARE UTL TU58 (1987). 2
BE-T492C-DE HSC50 SYSTEM DISPLAYED VERSION V110 (1984). 2
BE-T49211-ME HSC50 SYSTEM V2.50. 2
HSC50 UTILITIES V2.50 12/18/85 2
BE-T788C-DE HSC50 UTILITY DISPLAYED VERSION V110 (1984) 2
BE-T788D-DE 071994 HSC50 UTILITY TAPE V200 (1983,84) 2
HSC001 SYSTEM TAPE V2.5 2
FORTRAN
BE-M873F-BE 016335 VAX FORTRAN V4.3 BIN TU58 2/2 FORT043 FORT02 (1985). 2
BE-J844L-BE VAX FORTRN V3.5 BIN TU58 1/2 FORT035 FORT01 (1984). 2
BE-M873C-BE VAX FOR V4.0 2/2 FORT040 FORT02. 2
BE-CJ51D-BE 016191 VAX FORTRAN V4.3 BIN TU58 1/1 FHLP043 FHLP01 (1985). 2
BE-CJ51C-BE 027377 VAX FORTRAN V4.2 BIN TU58 1/1 FHLP042 FHLP01 (1985). 2
BE-M873F-BE 016334 VAX FORTRAN V4.3 BIN TU58 2/2 FORT043 FORT02 (1985) 2
VAX-11 FORTRAN V3.0 2/2 2
BE-M873E-BE 016075 VAX FORTRAN V4.2 BIN TU58 2/2 FORT042 FORT02 (1985) 2
BE-CJ51E-BE 061773 VAX FORTRAN V4.4 BIN TU58 1/1 FHLP044 FHLP01 (1985) 2
BE-J844K-BE VAXFORTV3 V3.4 BIN TU58 1/2 (1983) 2
BE-J844Q-BE 061768 VAX FORTRAN V4.4 BIN TU58 1/2 FORT044 FORT01 2
BE-M873G-BE 061762 VAX FORTRAN V4.4 BIN TU58 2/2 FORT044 FORT02 2
BE-J844M-BE FORTRAN V4.0 FORT040 FORT01 1/2 2
BE-J8440-BE 015134 VAX FORTRAN V4.2 BIN TU58 1/2 FORT042 FORT01 (1985) 2
BE-J844P-BE 016181 VAX FORTRAN V4.3 BIN TU58 1/2 FORT043 FORT01 (1985) 2
BE-M873E-BE 015082 VAX FORTRAN V4.2 BIN TU58 2/2 FORT042 FORT02 (1985) 2
BE-M873I-BE 091879 VAX FORTRAN V4.6 BIN TU58 2/2 FORT046 FORT02 (1987) 2
BE-CJ51A-BE FORTRAN V4.0 1/1 FHLP040 FHLP01 2
BE-M873B-BE VAX FORTRAN BIN TU58 2/2 FORT035 FORT02 (1984) 2
VAX-11 FORTRAN V3.1 1/2 VAXFORTV3 2
DECnet
BE-DL08A-BE 029660 DECNET-VAX V4 FULL FUNC TU58 (1984). 2
--
Copyright (C) 2001 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals:
All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature &
rdd(a)rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such
http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty.
PS If you do get a dump, I'd appreciate a
copy. I'm archiving all the
TU58s I can find to CD-Rs...
I'm doing the same thing. So far, I have about 20 tapes read in. :-(
2:48 p.m.
New subject: TU-58 dumps (was Re: VAX 11/730 Problem)
--- "R. D. Davis" <rdd(a)rddavis.org> wrote:
Quothe Ethan Dicks, from writings of Tue, Jan 15, 2002
at 03:22:12PM
-0800:
Yes... a cursory search of the list shows me a few items that may fill
in some gaps in my collection of VMS 3.x tapes. I have read in what I
can; some tapes just plain would _not_ read in completely (I could
probably read some blocks) and at least one was recycled by a cow-orker
15 years ago.
--- "Clint Wolff (VAX collector)"
<vaxman(a)qwest.net> wrote:
Here's a listing of the tapes that I have; are any of the following of
particular interest? PS If you do get a dump, I'd appreciate a
copy. I'm archiving all the
TU58s I can find to CD-Rs...
I'm doing the same thing. So far, I have about 20 tapes read in. :-( Alas, I've not gotten my tape drive to work yet...
Can I help? To get my tapes read, I took a TU-58 drive assembly that
came out of an 11/725 or 11/730 _years_ ago when we bought them to strip
for parts (cheaper than paying DEC for maintenance), and set it on top
of a Windows PC. For power, I rigged up a PC-drive-power-to-TU-58-PCB
cable (I had a connector that would fit the inside of the tape drive; I
didn't have one for the outside connector). For data, I took a DLV11J
bulkhead panel from my DataRAM Qbus box (faster than building a cable
from scratch), and used my box of RJ-45 serial
connectors and cables
to match up the back of the PC with the DataRAM breakout
panel. I
have used several pieces of software, some from list members here, to
pull the data from the TU-58 and build images.
If I can help with specific problem you might be having, please feel
free to ask.
-ethan
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27 Jul
27 Jul
3:55 p.m.
New subject: TU-58 dumps (was Re: VAX 11/730 Problem)
I have managed to read in all 58+ of my TU58 tapes, using a little Linux
program to play the host side: VAX 11/750 console, 11/750 microcode and
diagnostics FE and it looks like customer (CDD01 - CDD04). Also
VMS updates (3.6, 3.7, 4.1, 4.2 4.4), and VMS stand alone backup programs
(3.3, 4.0, 4.1 and 5.0). Finally, a couple of FORTRAN related tapes.
Thanks to Allison for the tip on using rubber hose to replace rubber
rollers gone to "glue". Worked great. I didn't glue mine to the hub,
though I suppose I should -- one did start slipping some after reading in
30 tapes -- the aluminum hub got pretty hot. I also found I could be quite
aggressive with isopropyl alcohol cleaning the heads.
Is there someone who is maintaining an archive of TU58 tape images? If so,
I may have a few to donate... 8^)
Jay Jaeger
At 03:22 PM 1/15/2002 -0800, Ethan Dicks wrote:
--- "Clint Wolff (VAX collector)"
<vaxman(a)qwest.net> wrote:
---
Jay R. Jaeger The Computer Collection
cube1(a)charter.net
PS If you do get a dump, I'd appreciate a
copy. I'm archiving all the
TU58s I can find to CD-Rs...
I'm doing the same thing. So far, I have about 20 tapes read in. :-(
The ones that have no read errors are fine. Most of the tapes take a
bit of work (lots of head cleaning and retrying). I have a quantity of
11/750 diagnostic tapes as well as boot tapes/standalone backup tapes.
Probably nothing horribly rare (except for partial VMS 3.x upgrade sets),
but you never know. We should trade tape titles sometime.
On Sun, 21 Oct 2001, Michael Schneider wrote:
> Hello to all VAXenfolks,
>
> i do have a problem with a VAX-11/730...
> It is now willing to boot and tries to load it's microcode tape from
> the TU-58 drives...
> But the TU-58's are so battered that i have not been able to read the
> tape.
>
> I have repaced the rubber rollers, but the read/write-heads look, ummm,
> bad!
>
> I have found somewhere some TU-58 simulator software for DOS which
> looks like a promising alternative; i would place a mini-DOS-computer
> inside a VT-102 and route some additional cables to the VAX and be
fine.
That's one way to do it. You could also mount the "mini-DOS" computer in
the 11/730 where you extracted the TU-58 from (depending on which style
of VAX you have, it might or might not be easy. If I were going to do
this (and I just might someday), I'd consider a Linux-based TU-58
emulator, and stick a tiny 486 in the base of the rack with a serial
cable going into the VAX (11/730 or 11/750), a spare serial cable
going to either a port on the VAX or a terminal server or the like, as
well as an ethernet connection to my LAN, so I could run a shell to
monitor the TU-58 tape images - manipulate file names, create "blanks"
for writing, that sort of thing. I'd also consider attaching a 4x20 LCD
display to the parallel port or a spare serial port, a-la LCDproc, with
a menu and a switch or two for easy "tape swapping". An old and slow
laptop might also be a good option. Don't need much horsepower to
flood a 38400 bps cable with bytes.
> BUT: How do i get the contents of the
microcode tape of the tape, into
> a DOS file without access to a working TU-58?
As you say... either someone reads it for you or you get an image from
someone else of something that's close.
> Is someone on this list able to read the
tape?
Yes.
> Has someone already made a tape image i
could just use?
No. I could make one, but I don't have one at present, just real
11/730 console tapes.
> I mean, i have
> a original DEC tape, with serial number and all. I might even come up
> with a license document, if i search long enough...
Do you have access to another VAX? I used to cut console tapes all the
time for our 11/730 (k-panda when it was in the UUCP maps) - I still
have it (and the tapes).
The tape from DEC was sub-optimized. I wrote a quick DCL script to
write the files in optimal order and sped up boot time to under 3
minutes. It was not an original idea, but it did work *great* (the
microprocessor in the TU-58 caches the directory AFAIK, so if you ask
for the next sequential file on the tape, it doesn't have to seek back
to the front to locate it - you just spin the tape to read it).
> Any help would be greatly welcomed. This old
lady is just to beautifull
> to use it as an electric heater only...
Did you ever get a tape for your machine (this is an old message, after
all)? If not, this past weekend, I happened to run across the box with
my old console tapes (which is why I'm writing now). Let me know the
numbers off of your tape (since there are different revs of the stuff
on the tape, and something on there might or might not be VMS-version
dependent).
If you ever did get things running, I know it's possible to build new
tapes from a running machine. I'd have to find my program on a backup
tape; I know I don't have it handy, and that 11/730 is in storage.
-ethan
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4:21 p.m.
New subject: TU-58 dumps (was Re: VAX 11/730 Problem)
I have managed to read in all 58+ of my TU58 tapes,
using a little
Linux program to play the host side: VAX 11/750 console, 11/750
microcode and diagnostics FE and it looks like customer (CDD01 -
CDD04).
Cool! If you don't mind sharing the program, I could probably dump
some TU58s also.
Anyone got a tape of the HSC50 software (CRONIC)?
9:05 p.m.
New subject: TU-58 dumps (was Re: VAX 11/730 Problem)
And no '730 console tape? **SIGH** I still have none (Ok, i did not have
too much time to look into this lately)...
As for an archive of tape images: I would be able and willing to provide
WEB/FTP-space for an archive. If you can wait 2-3 weeks; i'm going on
vacation tomorrow..
ms
On Sun, 2002-07-28 at 05:41, Jay Jaeger wrote:
I have managed to read in all 58+ of my TU58 tapes,
using a little Linux
program to play the host side: VAX 11/750 console, 11/750 microcode and
diagnostics FE and it looks like customer (CDD01 - CDD04). Also
VMS updates (3.6, 3.7, 4.1, 4.2 4.4), and VMS stand alone backup programs
(3.3, 4.0, 4.1 and 5.0). Finally, a couple of FORTRAN related tapes.
Thanks to Allison for the tip on using rubber hose to replace rubber
rollers gone to "glue". Worked great. I didn't glue mine to the hub,
though I suppose I should -- one did start slipping some after reading in
30 tapes -- the aluminum hub got pretty hot. I also found I could be quite
aggressive with isopropyl alcohol cleaning the heads.
Is there someone who is maintaining an archive of TU58 tape images? If so,
I may have a few to donate... 8^)
Jay Jaeger
At 03:22 PM 1/15/2002 -0800, Ethan Dicks wrote:
--
Michael Schneider email: ms(a)vaxcluster.de
Germany http://www.vaxcluster.de
Sieben auf einen Streich
--- "Clint Wolff (VAX collector)"
<vaxman(a)qwest.net> wrote:
---
Jay R. Jaeger The Computer Collection
cube1(a)charter.net
PS If you do get a dump, I'd appreciate a
copy. I'm archiving all the
TU58s I can find to CD-Rs...
I'm doing the same thing. So far, I have about 20 tapes read in. :-(
The ones that have no read errors are fine. Most of the tapes take a
bit of work (lots of head cleaning and retrying). I have a quantity of
11/750 diagnostic tapes as well as boot tapes/standalone backup tapes.
Probably nothing horribly rare (except for partial VMS 3.x upgrade sets),
but you never know. We should trade tape titles sometime.
On Sun, 21 Oct 2001, Michael Schneider wrote:
> Hello to all VAXenfolks,
>
> i do have a problem with a VAX-11/730...
> It is now willing to boot and tries to load it's microcode tape from
> the TU-58 drives...
> But the TU-58's are so battered that i have not been able to read the
> tape.
>
> I have repaced the rubber rollers, but the read/write-heads look, ummm,
> bad!
>
> I have found somewhere some TU-58 simulator software for DOS which
> looks like a promising alternative; i would place a mini-DOS-computer
> inside a VT-102 and route some additional cables to the VAX and be
fine.
That's one way to do it. You could also mount the "mini-DOS" computer in
the 11/730 where you extracted the TU-58 from (depending on which style
of VAX you have, it might or might not be easy. If I were going to do
this (and I just might someday), I'd consider a Linux-based TU-58
emulator, and stick a tiny 486 in the base of the rack with a serial
cable going into the VAX (11/730 or 11/750), a spare serial cable
going to either a port on the VAX or a terminal server or the like, as
well as an ethernet connection to my LAN, so I could run a shell to
monitor the TU-58 tape images - manipulate file names, create "blanks"
for writing, that sort of thing. I'd also consider attaching a 4x20 LCD
display to the parallel port or a spare serial port, a-la LCDproc, with
a menu and a switch or two for easy "tape swapping". An old and slow
laptop might also be a good option. Don't need much horsepower to
flood a 38400 bps cable with bytes.
> BUT: How do i get the contents of the
microcode tape of the tape, into
> a DOS file without access to a working TU-58?
As you say... either someone reads it for you or you get an image from
someone else of something that's close.
> Is someone on this list able to read the
tape?
Yes.
> Has someone already made a tape image i
could just use?
No. I could make one, but I don't have one at present, just real
11/730 console tapes.
> I mean, i have
> a original DEC tape, with serial number and all. I might even come up
> with a license document, if i search long enough...
Do you have access to another VAX? I used to cut console tapes all the
time for our 11/730 (k-panda when it was in the UUCP maps) - I still
have it (and the tapes).
The tape from DEC was sub-optimized. I wrote a quick DCL script to
write the files in optimal order and sped up boot time to under 3
minutes. It was not an original idea, but it did work *great* (the
microprocessor in the TU-58 caches the directory AFAIK, so if you ask
for the next sequential file on the tape, it doesn't have to seek back
to the front to locate it - you just spin the tape to read it).
> Any help would be greatly welcomed. This old
lady is just to beautifull
> to use it as an electric heater only...
Did you ever get a tape for your machine (this is an old message, after
all)? If not, this past weekend, I happened to run across the box with
my old console tapes (which is why I'm writing now). Let me know the
numbers off of your tape (since there are different revs of the stuff
on the tape, and something on there might or might not be VMS-version
dependent).
If you ever did get things running, I know it's possible to build new
tapes from a running machine. I'd have to find my program on a backup
tape; I know I don't have it handy, and that 11/730 is in storage.
-ethan
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28 Jul
28 Jul
3:54 a.m.
New subject: TU-58 dumps (was Re: VAX 11/730 Problem)
--- Jay Jaeger <cube1(a)charter.net> wrote:
I have managed to read in all 58+ of my TU58 tapes,
using a little Linux
program to play the host side: VAX 11/750 console, 11/750 microcode and
diagnostics FE and it looks like customer (CDD01 - CDD04). Also
VMS updates (3.6, 3.7, 4.1, 4.2 4.4), and VMS stand alone backup
programs
(3.3, 4.0, 4.1 and 5.0). Finally, a couple of FORTRAN related tapes.
Cool. Care to share the program? I was using a DOS program to similar
effect. It was kind of tedious.
Is there someone who is maintaining an archive of TU58
tape images? If
so, I may have a few to donate... 8^)
Jay Jaeger
I haven't read in any tapes lately, but I could start an archive from
my website at penguincentral. If you don't get a better offer, write
me offline and we'll see what it takes to get your stuff and my stuff
in the same place.
-ethan
At 03:22 PM 1/15/2002 -0800, Ethan Dicks wrote:
>--- "Clint Wolff (VAX collector)" <vaxman(a)qwest.net> wrote:
> > PS If you do get a dump, I'd appreciate a copy. I'm archiving all the
> > TU58s I can find to CD-Rs...
>
>I'm doing the same thing. So far, I have about 20 tapes read in. :-(
>...I have a quantity of 11/750 diagnostic tapes as well as boot
>tapes/standalone backup tapes... (...partial VMS 3.x upgrade sets)
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30 Jul
30 Jul
8:45 p.m.
New subject: Wangtek tape drive rollers (was: Re: TU-58 dumps ...)
On Sat, 27 Jul 2002, Jay Jaeger wrote:
Thanks to Allison for the tip on using rubber hose to
replace rubber
rollers gone to "glue". Worked great. I didn't glue mine to the hub,
though I suppose I should -- one did start slipping some after reading
in 30 tapes -- the aluminum hub got pretty hot. I also found I could be
quite aggressive with isopropyl alcohol cleaning the heads.
Has anyone tried replacing the rollers of old Wangtek drives with bits of
rubber hose? Ideally, I'd like to find an inexpensive source for original
rollers, but I don't currently know of one.
-Toth
22 Oct
22 Oct
7:51 p.m.
On 21 Oct, Michael Schneider wrote:
But the TU-58's are so battered that i have not
been able to read the
tape.
I have repaced the rubber rollers, but the read/write-heads look, ummm,
bad!
Perhaps a friend is willing to sell his TU58 he rescued from a ded VAX.
I'll forward your mail to him...
--
tsch??,
Jochen
Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/
23 Oct
23 Oct
8:11 a.m.
Thank You!!!
I mean:
DANKE!
ms
jkunz(a)unixag-kl.fh-kl.de wrote:
On 21 Oct, Michael Schneider wrote:
--
Michael Schneider email: ms(a)silke.rt.schwaben.de
Germany http://www.vaxcluster.de
People disagree with me. I just ignore them.
(Linus Torvalds)
But the TU-58's are so battered that i have
not been able to read the
tape.
I have repaced the rubber rollers, but the read/write-heads look, ummm,
bad!
Perhaps a friend is willing to sell his TU58 he rescued from a ded VAX.
I'll forward your mail to him...
--
tsch??,
Jochen
Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/
7933
days inactive
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20 comments
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participants (10)
-
cube1＠charter.net -
doc＠mdrconsult.com -
erd_6502＠yahoo.com -
eric＠brouhaha.com -
jkunz＠unixag-kl.fh-kl.de -
ms＠silke.rt.schwaben.de -
rdd＠rddavis.org -
tothwolf＠concentric.net -
vaxman＠earthlink.net -
vaxman＠qwest.net