I'm sure many have tried with DEC and Mentec to get a hobbyist license for RT-11. For example, following is an email I sent a couple of years ago to Mentec. (P.S. I _really_ DO want to run BSD on as much of my old -11 hardware as possible, and I have license AU-1 to do it. But, I also have one or two small -11 systems where RT-11 is ideal, and that's probably the more likely case with hobbyists.) To: Chip Charlot/Sales/Mentec Subject: RT-11 Hobbyist License Chip, Thank you for talking to me about the possibility of an RT-11 hobbyist license. There are now many LSI-11, uPDP-11, PDP-11 machines being preserved by dedicated "hobbyist-oriented" users who can't afford, and who don't want to spend, the high cost of an official, commericial license for RT-11. DECUS is now making OpenVMS available to the hobbiest at a reasonable price. (Yes, I know lots of hobbyists who have VAX and uVAX machines at home.) Here is a Web page that summarizes the DECUS arrangement: http://www.montagar.com/hobbyist/ Rather than repeat all the information contained at that Web site, I suggest you take a look at the Proposal, License Terms, Licensing, and Media Kit details at that site for VMS. I hope that DEC and Mentec can work something out. I believe that it would be to the advantage of both companies to preserve the machines and software that otherwise may dwindle to a very small user base over time. Thanks, Dave Jenner djenner(a)halcyon.com Aaron Christopher Finney wrote:

Zane H. Healy wrote: snip Hi Zane: If you look at the _basic_ idea behind FORTH as a language, you will find that it completely bypasses any other OS. I.E. Forth consists of a few hundred bytes of machine code, that implements a _minimal_ FORTH 'kernel'. With this 'kernel' in operation, the rest of the necessary computer (machine) operating system is written _in_FORTH_. Said OS being as complicated, or as simple as desired. The 'minimal few hundred bytes of machine code', is processor specific. The part of the OS written in FORTH is portable, and _NOT_ machine specific. The Forth Interest Group (FIG) home page is at http://www.forth.org/fig.html , which is your best place to start looking for FORTH information. Chuck -- ----------------------------------------------------------- He, who will not reason, is a bigot; William Drumond, he, who cannot, is a fool; Scottish writer and he, who dares not, is a slave. (1585-1649) While he that does, is a free man! Joseph P. 1955- ----------------------------------------------------------- Chuck Davis / Sutherlin Industries FAX # (804) 799-0940 1973 Reeves Mill Road E-Mail -- cad(a)gamewood.net Sutherlin, Virginia 24594 Voice # (804) 799-5803

Here's another resource for FORTH: http://www.forth.org/ If you look through the FTP archives, you'll find the original FIG-FORTH for the PDP-11. The problem is, to make fundamental changes to the basic system, you need to have RT-11 (or RSX,..., something to run MACRO and create a bootable floppy). Once you have that floppy, however, you have a standalone OS/Compiler/Assembler/Editor/runtime that can accomplish quite a bit. What you really want is a system with a "meta-compiler" that runs under FORTH to regenerate the basic system, if you need to do so. I don't recall there being any systems with reasonable licensing (i.e., non-commercial) that do this for the PDP-11. As I said earlier, you should go the way of FORTH only if you are willing to be consumed by it--because you will be. You become the all-powerful creator and maintainer, and it becomes a religion. It does work very well on small systems (like an 11/03 with dual floppies) because that's where it originated. Zane H. Healy wrote: