Those of you on cbm-hackers will have already seen this message. Some preamble: Commodore, just yesterday (see www.commodoreworld.com) was reintroduced by trademark holder Tulip as an electronics subsidiary. Most of their current and envisioned product line is fairly unimpressive me-too products including an iPod/iTunes ripoff and they're actually trying to resell the old Epyx Commodore 64 titles to which they have acquired the rights. One thing that has not endeared Tulip to the Commodore community was an attempt to grind down on trademark enforcement. First it was the Commodore name and logo, and then the system ROMs, and there is also some argument over the IP of the 64 itself. Apparently a collabourator called Ironstone is developing a new 64 of their own, separate from the C-1 being created by Jeri Ellsworth, which is nearing completion. There is worry that Ironstone/Tulip will clamp down on new hardware development as a result. What appears below is a note about the new policies by Ruud Baltissen, who was one of the speakers at Commodore's "relaunch" yesterday and a long time member of the Commodore community who was asked to speak at their launch likely as an attempt to bridge the (at the moment) contentious gulf between the classic community and the new corporate environment. Anyone have any comments? This seems like the C64 community is going to get stomped on. (None of this affects the Amiga, AFAIK, which is not owned by Tulip.) ----- Forwarded message from Baltissen, GJPAA ----- From: "Baltissen, GJPAA (Ruud)" <--> To: "'cbm-hackers@..'" Date: Fri, 18 Jun 2004 11:29:19 +0200 Subject: CommodoreWorld Hallo allemaal, As some of you already know, yesterday the new Commodore presented itself to the world. I was invited as well to speak to the community as one of the users. I felt awfull when on stage :( Most important thing: I have spoken with the top of Tulip and Commodore, four men. One thing we have discussed are the sites like FUNET and ARNOLD, sites that archive ROMs and games. Regarding the games, utilities and other non-system-ROMs they were clear: they considered that as there legal property and as they wanted to make money with it, they would protect these rights. And with reason, see later. Personal point of view: I understand completely and accept it. (But I cannot say I like it). The system-ROMs are another matter. They realise that the C= community is as it is nowadays, thanks to you guys and the information that is available worldwide. Three of the four agree that there has to be made an arrangement or whatever where both parties, Commodore and we developers, could live with. I spoke with the fourth guy, one of the original Tulip-guys and merely money orientated, and showed him things the community had developed on their own the last ten years: Retro Replay, X1541, IDE64, 64HDD and.... Marko's CD. He was impressed and would think things over. But don't blame him as a person, he is a nice guy IMHO, but one that has to run a bussines. A small problem is that they want to sell or include an emulator with one of their products. But they realise that the community as it is now probably is not waiting for their emulator as there are some very good ones available for free. With this emulator they have a reason to forbid publishing systemROMs as wel but..... I spoke with Darren Melbourne, the man behind Ironstone, as well. Ironstone is responsible for the C64-joystick C= will start to sell around october/november. I, of course, asked him about the hardware. The bad news: it will a single chip ASIC. I only forgot to ask him if the ROM with OS and games were inside the ASIC or apart. The good news: I know about who is behind the development of this C64 and therefor we can expect quite some suprises: - The new C64 will have at least 265 colours - It will have higher resolutions - It will have two SID's onboard - The ASIC runs on 27 MHz. I hardly can imagine it needs 27 cycles to emulate one of the original C64. - I asked Darren if there are plans to produce a big C64 based on this print. So he revealed that, although it resembles a joystick, all connections of the normal ports are available in the form of pads. So one could solder his own expansionport, userport or whatever to this stick. - Regarding the extra features: they want to publish the memorymap and other technical details so programmers are able to develop new games etc. for this new C64. The disclaimer: The above info is given by me as it was told me. I'm only human and I could have understood some things wrong. Etc., etc., etc. About the person: Darren doesn't mind to tell me who it is but the person self does because of a personal reason. This C64-joystick is the reason they want to protect their legal rights about the games. But they also want to stimulate the old community to develop programs for this new C64, the community that has thrived on the availability of ROMs and other information. And you won't be making friends by taking away that where those friends are thriving on :) Another point is the makers of hardware like Maurice Randall but also people like Markus Brenner and the Czechs who produce the IDE64. Particulary those who produce hardware that is to be connected to the userport or expansionport. I didn't realise it but these ports are intellectual properties of Commodore as well. So actually anyone building hardware for these ports has to pay C= a fee as well. Regarding Maurice, he bought the stuff from CMD and Tulip/Commodore doesn't know what agreement CMD had with the original C=. Regarding others: three of the four agreed that as long as no big money is involved, they leave the situation as it is. I mentioned the above in my speach and the fourth guy told me he started to realise that actions against these people would loose them a lot of sympathy of the old community as well. The fact is: Commodore/Tulip thrives on the fact that the name Commodore is know worlwide and on the sympathy created (merely) by the C64. So they want to avoid any action that will loose this precious sympathy. But they have a bussiness to run so some things are unavoidable. So: - sites publishing games and related software owned by Commodore have to remove it. - sites publishing kernals/systemROMs are tolerated for the moment [1]. - producers of hardware are tolerated as long as there is not really big money involved for the moment [1]. Rereading the above I may sound a bit pro-Tulip but it is a fact that they have the law on their side. Yesterday I used this example: imagine you inherit a fruitgarden with apples and pears, which has been left alone for ten years. Because nobody cared, the neighbouhood got used to pick their own fruit every autumn. You as the new owner, are only interested in the apples as the pears have no real commercial value for you. So you can leave them hanging to rot or.... tell the neighbourhood generously to help themself with the pears as you don't have a really need for them for the moment [1]. As you have the law on your side, most people will accept the situation. But what are you going to do with people that still pick (thus steal) your apples as well? [1] notice the "for the moment". Lets face it, things can change in the future. But I have been there and I left with a good feeling. And now you can shoot..... -- ___ / __|__ / / |_/ Groetjes, Ruud \ \__|_\ \___| URL: Ruud.C64.org =====DISCLAIMER================================================================= De informatie in dit e-mailbericht is vertrouwelijk en uitsluitend bestemd voor de geadresseerde. Wanneer u dit bericht per abuis ontvangt, verzoeken wij u contact op te nemen met de afzender per kerende e-mail. Verder verzoeken wij u in dat geval dit e-mailbericht te vernietigen en de inhoud ervan aan niemand openbaar te maken. Wij aanvaarden geen aansprakelijkheid voor onjuiste, onvolledige dan wel ontijdige overbrenging van de inhoud van een verzonden e-mailbericht, noch voor daarbij overgebrachte virussen. The information contained in this e-mail is confidential and may be privileged. It may be read, copied and used only by the intended recipient. 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