5 Jul
2009
5 Jul
'09
10:43 a.m.
I only got to use this service a few times back in my younger days, and
even then, only with the demo accounts, and that at 300 baud (yes, baud,
not just BPS.)
I really couldn't afford their insane prices, but from what I saw back
in the day, it was a huge, vast place with lots of goodies.
http://www.boingboing.net/2009/07/03/compuserve-shuts-dow.html
http://www.basexblog.com/2009/07/03/compuserve-requiem/
5 Jul
5 Jul
noon
On 5 Jul 2009 at 10:43, Ray Arachelian wrote:
I only got to use this service a few times back in my
younger days,
and even then, only with the demo accounts, and that at 300 baud (yes,
baud, not just BPS.) I really couldn't afford their insane prices, but
from what I saw back in the day, it was a huge, vast place with lots
of goodies.
For me, (76130, 1400, if memory serves), CIS was a mainstay. Lots of
companies used it to communicate to their customers. Need to get a
registration number for your 16-bit Windows device driver? You could
submit the request online on CIS, for example. I was a heavy user of
the $8.95/month text-only service and it was a bargain particularly
in that I coiuld send and receive Usenet email in addition to CIS's
own.
--Chuck
1:30 p.m.
On Sun, Jul 5, 2009 at 10:43 AM, Ray Arachelian<ray at arachelian.com> wrote:
I only got to use this service a few times back in my
younger days, and
even then, only with the demo accounts, and that at 300 baud (yes, baud,
not just BPS.)
I still have my VIC Modem I used with my first C-64. I didn't like
the terminal program that came with the modem, so I wrote my own. I
don't recall the precise steps, but somehow from that, I was a beta
tester for Vidtex for the C-64 (a CompuServe-written enhanced terminal
emulator that added file transfer and mostly-platform-independent
color block graphics). Many years later, when I worked there, I was
showing off my old copy of the Vidtex terminal program to my new
co-workers, and one of them (who is one of the few still employed
there as of the shutdown) was especially astounded that anyone still
had a copy of the software that he had worked on.
I really couldn't afford their insane prices, but
from what I saw back
in the day, it was a huge, vast place with lots of goodies.
It was a lot of fun in the early 80s, but it was expensive. I
remember $5-$6/hour in the evenings at 300 baud (I never owned a 1200
baud modem while I was using CompuServe, but even if I had, I really
couldn't have afforded the on-line charges). I didn't get into CB
much. I think I spent most of my time playing Colossal Cave and the
Scott Adams adventures.
A few years later, CompuServe installed a node into COSI, the local
science museum where I was a student volunteer. I want to say it was
a KS-10 but I could be wrong on that. It was called the CIVIC
project. It lived in a fishbowl room on the corner of the second
floor, and besides just showing off a cool computer at a museum, it
was meant to be used for running projects for non-profit grantees who
needed computer time (and especially line-printer-time, it seems).
One of the fun bits of that exhibit was a set of wee kiosks covered in
various informatory placards that each held a C-64 attached up to "The
Service", as it was called. You couldn't navigate to certain parts
(like anything where you could order real-world stuff or incur extra
time charges), but you could at least get a feel for what CompuServe
was offering by walking up and using it for free. They used to have
to shoo the student volunteers away from that area during visitor
hours. Too tempting.
-ethan
74505,1677
1:47 p.m.
On Sun, Jul 5, 2009 at 10:30 AM, Ethan Dicks<ethan.dicks at gmail.com> wrote:
On Sun, Jul 5, 2009 at 10:43 AM, Ray Arachelian<ray
at arachelian.com> wrote:
Oh man... 72330,756... I spent WAY too much money on this service, but
I had a blast while doing so. I had a stint where I was working 2nd
shift and did both development and system administration for 2
companies. I was pretty much by myself while working these hours, so
I had a modem and a terminal set up for CIS usage. It kept me from
losing my mind... :)
Mark
I only got to use this service a few times back
in my younger days, and
even then, only with the demo accounts, and that at 300 baud (yes, baud,
not just BPS.)
I still have my VIC Modem I used with my first C-64. ?I didn't like
the terminal program that came with the modem, so I wrote my own. ?I
don't recall the precise steps, but somehow from that, I was a beta
tester for Vidtex for the C-64 (a CompuServe-written enhanced terminal
emulator that added file transfer and mostly-platform-independent
color block graphics). ?Many years later, when I worked there, I was
showing off my old copy of the Vidtex terminal program to my new
co-workers, and one of them (who is one of the few still employed
there as of the shutdown) was especially astounded that anyone still
had a copy of the software that he had worked on.
I really couldn't afford their insane prices,
but from what I saw back
in the day, it was a huge, vast place with lots of goodies.
It was a lot of fun in the early 80s, but it was expensive. ?I
remember $5-$6/hour in the evenings at 300 baud (I never owned a 1200
baud modem while I was using CompuServe, but even if I had, I really
couldn't have afforded the on-line charges). ?I didn't get into CB
much. ?I think I spent most of my time playing Colossal Cave and the
Scott Adams adventures.
A few years later, CompuServe installed a node into COSI, the local
science museum where I was a student volunteer. ?I want to say it was
a KS-10 but I could be wrong on that. ?It was called the CIVIC
project. ?It lived in a fishbowl room on the corner of the second
floor, and besides just showing off a cool computer at a museum, it
was meant to be used for running projects for non-profit grantees who
needed computer time (and especially line-printer-time, it seems).
One of the fun bits of that exhibit was a set of wee kiosks covered in
various informatory placards that each held a C-64 attached up to "The
Service", as it was called. ?You couldn't navigate to certain parts
(like anything where you could order real-world stuff or incur extra
time charges), but you could at least get a feel for what CompuServe
was offering by walking up and using it for free. ?They used to have
to shoo the student volunteers away from that area during visitor
hours. ?Too tempting.
?-ethan
74505,1677
2:36 p.m.
a couple posters comments from the boingboing article
One of the largest collections of DECsystem-10 architecture systems ever
assembled was at CompuServe, which at its peak operated over 200
loosely-coupled systems in three data centers in Columbus, Ohio. CompuServe
used these systems as 'hosts', providing access to commercial applications
as well as the CompuServe Information Service. While the first such systems
were purchased from DEC, when DEC abandoned the PDP-10 architecture in favor
the VAX, CompuServe and other PDP-10 customers began purchasing
plug-compatible computers from Systems Concepts. As of January 2007,
CompuServe continues to operate a small number of PDP-10 architecture
machines to perform some billing and routing functions.
Compuserve used to put their servers/routers/whatever the hell they were in
the basements of local H & R Block offices. Telco would bring dozens of
rotary POTS lines up to those machines for inbound connections from local
citizens/customers, then hi-cap lines would go out to the interweb. Clever &
definitely a cheap-o way of doing things, wish I'd have thought of it. A
drawback was when there was trouble at the location: if it wasn't tax season
the lines & machines were hard to get access to, outages would go for days.
Also, H & R Block was notorious to telco for really poor phone systems &
computer networks, so if their communications folks had anything to do with
Compuserve, it was bound to be clunky.
On 7/5/09, Mark Davidson <mdavidson1963 at gmail.com> wrote:
On Sun, Jul 5, 2009 at 10:30 AM, Ethan Dicks<ethan.dicks at gmail.com> wrote:
Oh man... 72330,756... I spent WAY too much money on this service, but
I had a blast while doing so. I had a stint where I was working 2nd
shift and did both development and system administration for 2
companies. I was pretty much by myself while working these hours, so
I had a modem and a terminal set up for CIS usage. It kept me from
losing my mind... :)
Mark
On Sun, Jul 5, 2009 at 10:43 AM, Ray
Arachelian<ray at arachelian.com>
wrote:
I only
got to use this service a few times back in my younger days, and
even then, only with the demo accounts, and that at 300 baud (yes, baud,
not just BPS.)
I still have my VIC Modem I used with my first C-64. I didn't like
the terminal program that came with the modem, so I wrote my own. I
don't recall the precise steps, but somehow from that, I was a beta
tester for Vidtex for the C-64 (a CompuServe-written enhanced terminal
emulator that added file transfer and mostly-platform-independent
color block graphics). Many years later, when I worked there, I was
showing off my old copy of the Vidtex terminal program to my new
co-workers, and one of them (who is one of the few still employed
there as of the shutdown) was especially astounded that anyone still
had a copy of the software that he had worked on.
I really couldn't afford their insane prices,
but from what I saw back
in the day, it was a huge, vast place with lots of goodies.
It was a lot of fun in the early 80s, but it was expensive. I
remember $5-$6/hour in the evenings at 300 baud (I never owned a 1200
baud modem while I was using CompuServe, but even if I had, I really
couldn't have afforded the on-line charges). I didn't get into CB
much. I think I spent most of my time playing Colossal Cave and the
Scott Adams adventures.
A few years later, CompuServe installed a node into COSI, the local
science museum where I was a student volunteer. I want to say it was
a KS-10 but I could be wrong on that. It was called the CIVIC
project. It lived in a fishbowl room on the corner of the second
floor, and besides just showing off a cool computer at a museum, it
was meant to be used for running projects for non-profit grantees who
needed computer time (and especially line-printer-time, it seems).
One of the fun bits of that exhibit was a set of wee kiosks covered in
various informatory placards that each held a C-64 attached up to "The
Service", as it was called. You couldn't navigate to certain parts
(like anything where you could order real-world stuff or incur extra
time charges), but you could at least get a feel for what CompuServe
was offering by walking up and using it for free. They used to have
to shoo the student volunteers away from that area during visitor
hours. Too tempting.
-ethan
74505,1677
3:01 p.m.
Ray Arachelian wrote:
I really couldn't afford their insane prices, but
from what I saw back
in the day, it was a huge, vast place with lots of goodies.
There were very many files that only lived on Compuserve, discovered as
desirable by me long after the file areas were gone. This is especially
tragic since all of compuserve's file areas would fit onto a single
cheap hard drive nowadays. I wish there was an archive of those files
somewhere.
6 Jul
6 Jul
12:24 p.m.
Jim Leonard wrote:
There were very many files that only lived on
Compuserve, discovered as
desirable by me long after the file areas were gone. This is especially
tragic since all of compuserve's file areas would fit onto a single
cheap hard drive nowadays. I wish there was an archive of those files
somewhere.
Jim,
Yes, that would be a loss indeed if that stuff wasn't somehow preserved.
It's interesting, that even with my personal stuff, that the importance
of the data seems to increase w/ the length of time since last access.
Data that I considered worthless at the time seems invaluable now.
Absence makes the heart grow fonder. or something.
My parents encouraged me to sell my CoCo II to upgrade. Made $25.
Maybe $20. With it, I can't help but feel I sold many childhood
memories along with it. I'd certainly really like to take a peak into
my mind of 24 years ago.
Ahhh well.
Keith
5 Jul
5 Jul
6:25 p.m.
On Sun, 5 Jul 2009, Ray Arachelian wrote:
I only got to use this service a few times back in my
younger days, and
even then, only with the demo accounts, and that at 300 baud (yes, baud,
not just BPS.)
I really couldn't afford their insane prices, but from what I saw back
in the day, it was a huge, vast place with lots of goodies.
http://www.boingboing.net/2009/07/03/compuserve-shuts-dow.html
http://www.basexblog.com/2009/07/03/compuserve-requiem/
I was under the impression that the classic Compuserve was discontinued at
least ten years ago.
--
David Griffith
dgriffi at cs.csubak.edu
A: Because it fouls the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
A: Top-posting.
Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail?
7:17 p.m.
David Griffith wrote:
On Sun, 5 Jul 2009, Ray Arachelian wrote:
Same here. The other factor back then too, often your nearest data
centre, was still a goodly
sum long distance call.
Ben.
I only got to use this service a few times back
in my younger days, and
even then, only with the demo accounts, and that at 300 baud (yes, baud,
not just BPS.)
I really couldn't afford their insane prices, but from what I saw back
in the day, it was a huge, vast place with lots of goodies.
http://www.boingboing.net/2009/07/03/compuserve-shuts-dow.html
http://www.basexblog.com/2009/07/03/compuserve-requiem/
I was under the impression that the classic Compuserve was
discontinued at least ten years ago.
9:46 p.m.
On 7/5/09, Ben <bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca> wrote:
The other factor back then too, often your nearest
data centre,
was still a goodly sum long distance call.
Maybe in some parts (like the complaint on the discussion thread on
Slashdot about the PA customer who only had two numbers to call in
their area code, and both were long-distance from their house), but
since I grew up a few miles from the main building, we never had a
problem in Central Ohio with free access numbers. There was great
coverage close to home. I never even used to get busy signals, not
even when the service was at the peak of its popularity 25 years ago.
Of course, paying per hour meant that people got on, did their thing,
then got off. BBSes were another thing entirely - those were hard to
get into back then, except when Star Trek was on TV. Mysteriously,
the modems were easier to reach at that time of the evening.
-ethan
10:08 p.m.
Does anyone have any idea what they are going to do with all those old machines?
Mark
On Sun, Jul 5, 2009 at 6:46 PM, Ethan Dicks<ethan.dicks at gmail.com> wrote:
On 7/5/09, Ben <bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca>
wrote:
The other factor back then too, often your
nearest data centre,
was still a goodly sum long distance call.
Maybe in some parts (like the complaint on the discussion thread on
Slashdot about the PA customer who only had two numbers to call in
their area code, and both were long-distance from their house), but
since I grew up a few miles from the main building, we never had a
problem in Central Ohio with free access numbers. ?There was great
coverage close to home. I never even used to get busy signals, not
even when the service was at the peak of its popularity 25 years ago.
Of course, paying per hour meant that people got on, did their thing,
then got off. ?BBSes were another thing entirely - those were hard to
get into back then, except when Star Trek was on TV. ?Mysteriously,
the modems were easier to reach at that time of the evening.
-ethan
10:28 p.m.
On 7/5/09, Mark Davidson <mdavidson1963 at gmail.com> wrote:
Does anyone have any idea what they are going to do
with all those old machines?
If I had a good answer, I'd have already rented a truck. ;-)
I _think_ they will end up either as spares for the ones at WorldCom
(since there are still machines from before the split running a few
miles away) or end up somewhere else. At no time have I heard a
breath of a hint that they were tossing them out, damn the luck.
-ethan
6 Jul
6 Jul
4:34 a.m.
hello everyone,all that reminds me my beginning in on line
connections.Before the only connections I did were point to point with
modem to exchange data with my pdp11 .Real online connections were with
Compuserve,at that time ,I do not remember precisely but it was between 1985
and 1990 ,I did not have a peecee , 'only' tektronix 4052
,and a pdp11/23,and some terminals,to connect here in France I had to use
transpac,a bridge with x25 mode ,for that I first began with a 1200 bauds
modem,a Tektro 4010 and a hard copy unit (4631?) to 'save' programs and data
,the silver paper
was so expensive that I soon used a vt220 an a printer and normal paper
,still no computer...after I connected my pdp .It was at Compuserve that I
found the first freeware programs for my pdp ,had lots of
discussions ,met lots of kind peoples
I still have all those machines,I think I still have listings obtained at
that time from the 4631 tektro hcu,but they are becomming white ,I do not
remember my id :-((((...thanks to all ,and thanks very much Compuserve
Alain Nierveze in France
----- Message d'origine -----
De : "Ethan Dicks" <ethan.dicks at gmail.com>
? : "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"
<cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Envoy? : lundi 6 juillet 2009 04:28
Objet : Re: Goodbye Compuserve
On 7/5/09, Mark Davidson <mdavidson1963 at
gmail.com> wrote:
> Does anyone have any idea what they are going to do with all those old
machines?
If I had a good answer, I'd have already rented a truck. ;-)
I _think_ they will end up either as spares for the ones at WorldCom
(since there are still machines from before the split running a few
miles away) or end up somewhere else. At no time have I heard a
breath of a hint that they were tossing them out, damn the luck.
-ethan
11:51 p.m.
On Jul 5, 2009, at 11:11 PM, Sridhar Ayengar wrote:
Scrap value, for a pile of SC40s? More like "first born".
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire
Port Charlotte, FL
Does anyone
have any idea what they are going to do with all those
old machines?
Yeah. I'd definitely go pay scrap value if they'd be willing. 
11:56 p.m.
Dave McGuire wrote:
On Jul 5, 2009, at 11:11 PM, Sridhar Ayengar wrote:
Scrap value, for a pile of SC40s? More like "first born".
No, once machine, of course. 8-)
Peace... Sridhar
Does
anyone have any idea what they are going to do with all those
old machines?
Yeah. I'd definitely go pay scrap value if they'd be willing.
11:47 p.m.
An acquaintance of mine in Maryland is somehow involved in that.
I believe he is getting at least one. I'm going to ping him about it
and try to find out what's up.
-Dave
On Jul 5, 2009, at 10:08 PM, Mark Davidson wrote:
Does anyone have any idea what they are going to do
with all those
old machines?
Mark
On Sun, Jul 5, 2009 at 6:46 PM, Ethan Dicks<ethan.dicks at gmail.com>
wrote:
> On 7/5/09, Ben <bfranchuk at jetnet.ab.ca> wrote:
>> The other factor back then too, often your nearest data centre,
>> was still a goodly sum long distance call.
>
> Maybe in some parts (like the complaint on the discussion thread on
> Slashdot about the PA customer who only had two numbers to call in
> their area code, and both were long-distance from their house), but
> since I grew up a few miles from the main building, we never had a
> problem in Central Ohio with free access numbers. There was great
> coverage close to home. I never even used to get busy signals, not
> even when the service was at the peak of its popularity 25 years ago.
> Of course, paying per hour meant that people got on, did their thing,
> then got off. BBSes were another thing entirely - those were hard to
> get into back then, except when Star Trek was on TV. Mysteriously,
> the modems were easier to reach at that time of the evening.
>
> -ethan
>
--
Dave McGuire
Port Charlotte, FL
9:39 p.m.
On 7/5/09, David Griffith <dgriffi at cs.csubak.edu> wrote:
I was under the impression that the classic
Compuserve was discontinued at
least ten years ago.
Nearly all the old menu-based content probably did vanish 10 years
ago. The dial-up networking, the octal PPNs, the e-mail addresses,
the custom apps like the airline flight crew housing and city check-in
system - those have been working perfectly the whole time. The 36-bit
Systems Concepts machines in Upper Arlington, Ohio (the former
CompuServe headquarters) that kept it all going were what was shut
down last week.
-ethan
6 Jul
6 Jul
12:14 p.m.
Ray Arachelian wrote:
I only got to use this service a few times back in my
younger days, and
even then, only with the demo accounts, and that at 300 baud (yes, baud,
not just BPS.)
I really couldn't afford their insane prices, but from what I saw back
in the day, it was a huge, vast place with lots of goodies.
I discovered compuserve from a flyer that was included with my Radio
Shack direct connect 300 baud modem. It was "in-line", no acoustic
coupler required. :) Set the switch to answer/originate, and then press
the big red button on the right to connect. Literally turned the
carrier on and off. The only phone that my parents could spare was a
pulse-only phone. Thank god for the redial button. Made he** for
trying to get into busy BBS's.
I used endless numbers of CIS demo accounts to get access. The price
was absurd, even at 300 baud. As others mentioned, the price scaled
with the baud rate. Want 1200 baud, or 9600 baud? You'd pay through
the nose. I always wondered who actually paid those prices.
Good stuff though. I downloaded Pittsburgh BBS lists from there which
really put me in contact with other TRS-80 COCO users (I had a CoCo II)
and as they say, the rest is history. They had download sections. And
was it access to usenet? and/or fidonet? Wasn't the form "GO _____?" I
think they had online whitepages, and reverse phone number lookup.
Once I discovered the internet, I completely forgot about CIS. I
accessed CIS through the telenet dialups (as I assume everyone did?) As
a kid, I wondered what other systems I could connect to using similar
numbers. The numbers (did someone else call them PPNs?) were so dense,
and security almost nonexistent for many of the systems, that I had a
lot of fun times poking around.
Keith
18 Jul
18 Jul
3:48 p.m.
Gee I'm sorry I missed this thread when it was alive...
I was a Wizop (76702,1654) on CompuServe for about 10 years beginning in
1990 when we opened the FUSE Forum at the annual conference held in
Boston that year. [FOCUS users will remember FUSE. Explaining FOCUS is
too much digression. I'm listed in the book "CompuServe A to Z" with my
original account number.] Having a legitimate reason to be on CIS just
fueled my addiction that began in 1985 shortly after installing a modem
in my still new IBM XT. The IBM PC Forum taught me enough about the IBM
PC to be regarded as an expert at work. I had a boss who recognized a
cheap training opportunity when he saw one and subsidized my online habit.
One of the things I didn't see in the thread was how CIS created its own
third-party industry. Specialized programs were written for just about
every platform that automated using the CompuServe Fora. Tapcis was my
personal favorite. Most of the program worked in a similar manner that
handled the entire online session to minimize connect time. Once you
joined a forum and added it to Tapcis, the next time you connected, the
program would capture all of the message headers in the forum and save
them to disk. You could them browse the headers (thread topics) at your
leisure and select the ones of interest. When you were ready, a second
logon session would capture all of the messages in those threads you
just marked along with any from previous sessions. Offline, you could
read and reply without that ticking clock. The program handled email as
well. With Tapcis and similar programs for the Mac, OS/2, Amiga, etc.,
you could use the service more while spending less. At first CompuServe
resisted these programs; but over time realized that they drew in more
avid users. By the early-nineties, CIS was consulting the authors of
these programs before making changes and helping the authors incorporate
sysop tools for managing the fora into the programs.
Compuserve was in the middle of implementing new forum software that ran
on Windows NT in about 1997 and realized that what they were doing was
not going to work with the Internet. They changed direction and
developed the truly excellent web-based forums that existed for several
years. Unfortunately the web-based forums gradually killed the old ASCII
interface and the forums died.
Within the company, the end began when AOL decided that CompuServe would
be their "price brand". The CompuServe fora were so totally superior to
whatever AOL called their bulletin boards, that spending money to
develop CompuServe became a political embarrassment for AOL management.
Another big factor was Microsoft's decision to move their support fora
to the Internet. At their peak they had at least 15 for everything from
DOS to SQL Server.
Jim
Keith M wrote:
Ray Arachelian wrote:
I only got to use this service a few times back
in my younger days, and
even then, only with the demo accounts, and that at 300 baud (yes, baud,
not just BPS.)
I really couldn't afford their insane prices, but from what I saw back
in the day, it was a huge, vast place with lots of goodies.
I discovered compuserve from a flyer that was included with my Radio
Shack direct connect 300 baud modem. It was "in-line", no acoustic
coupler required. :) Set the switch to answer/originate, and then press
the big red button on the right to connect. Literally turned the
carrier on and off. The only phone that my parents could spare was a
pulse-only phone. Thank god for the redial button. Made he** for
trying to get into busy BBS's.
I used endless numbers of CIS demo accounts to get access. The price
was absurd, even at 300 baud. As others mentioned, the price scaled
with the baud rate. Want 1200 baud, or 9600 baud? You'd pay through
the nose. I always wondered who actually paid those prices.
Good stuff though. I downloaded Pittsburgh BBS lists from there which
really put me in contact with other TRS-80 COCO users (I had a CoCo II)
and as they say, the rest is history. They had download sections. And
was it access to usenet? and/or fidonet? Wasn't the form "GO _____?" I
think they had online whitepages, and reverse phone number lookup.
Once I discovered the internet, I completely forgot about CIS. I
accessed CIS through the telenet dialups (as I assume everyone did?) As
a kid, I wondered what other systems I could connect to using similar
numbers. The numbers (did someone else call them PPNs?) were so dense,
and security almost nonexistent for many of the systems, that I had a
lot of fun times poking around.
Keith 
22 Jul
22 Jul
11:01 p.m.
At 02:48 PM 7/18/2009, Jim Scheef wrote:
Gee I'm sorry I missed this thread when it was
alive...
I'm sure someone's whined about this before, but it's unfortunate that
Compuserve didn't archive its message bases and file libraries.
I think we're long past the time when the trove of archive tapes
would've been found and restored. Maybe it didn't makes sense from
a backup/storage/archive/cost perspective.
In all my years of Compuserve-ing, I did save my entire session
as a file capture. I did edit them afterwards, cutting out the junk
forum messages that didn't interest me at the time. Then I'd compress
them and store them on floppies. Perhaps other digital packrats did
the same and some old messages could be recovered from stores like mine.
- John
5483
days inactive
5501
days old
20 comments
14 participants
participants (14)
-
bfranchuk＠jetnet.ab.ca -
cclist＠sydex.com -
dgriffi＠cs.csubak.edu -
ethan.dicks＠gmail.com -
halarewich＠gmail.com -
jfoust＠threedee.com -
keithvz＠verizon.net -
mcguire＠neurotica.com -
mdavidson1963＠gmail.com -
nierveze＠radio-astronomie.com -
ploopster＠gmail.com -
ray＠arachelian.com -
scheefj＠netscape.net -
trixter＠oldskool.org