30 Jan
2021
30 Jan
'21
9:30 a.m.
I'm trying to repair an LSI-11/93 that has a bus timeout problem.?
Unfortunately the BA23 box it normally sits in lives in a cupboard with
printers stowed on top of it and due to my domestic situation (small
condo) I can't get it out to scope or get a scope anywhere near it to
scope the bus.
I'm thinking that the solution would be to get a small QBUS backplane
that I can put on my desk in the middle of my test equipment.
Like a 4-slot ABAB oir even ABCD would do.
Does anybody have one they don't want?? Power supply not needed.
cheers,
Nigel
--
Nigel Johnson, MSc., MIEEE, MCSE VE3ID/G4AJQ/VA3MCU
Amateur Radio, the origin of the open-source concept!
Skype: TILBURY2591 nw.johnson at ieee.org
30 Jan
30 Jan
1:14 p.m.
Hm. I have a 9 slot BA11-S that I have to sell/ebay/something here, but
that's probably way too big for you. I wonder though: Would an 11/93
explode if put in a traditional 18 bit 11/03 chassis? The one with the
memory refresh lines and power for core memory.
Probably.
CZ
On 1/30/2021 12:30 PM, Nigel Johnson via cctalk wrote:
I'm trying to repair an LSI-11/93 that has a bus
timeout problem.
Unfortunately the BA23 box it normally sits in lives in a cupboard with
printers stowed on top of it and due to my domestic situation (small
condo) I can't get it out to scope or get a scope anywhere near it to
scope the bus.
I'm thinking that the solution would be to get a small QBUS backplane
that I can put on my desk in the middle of my test equipment.
Like a 4-slot ABAB oir even ABCD would do.
Does anybody have one they don't want?? Power supply not needed.
cheers,
Nigel
2:20 p.m.
Yes the BA11S would be too big. Can't see why not for the 11/03 chassis.
I used to make a good living upgrading 1/03 chasses with four extra bits
for the 11/23/73? (Hmm, where is my old stock of W933 bus strip!)?
Always works except in the MINC laboratory system, which used those four
pins for module identification.
Since all the memory is on-board with the 11/93 I don't think it would
make a difference unless DMA used, and I don't plan to go that far!? I
could always wire-wrap them.
Can you ship to Toronto, ON?? How much?
cheers,
Nigel
Nigel Johnson, MSc., MIEEE, MCSE VE3ID/G4AJQ/VA3MCU
Amateur Radio, the origin of the open-source concept!
Skype: TILBURY2591 nw.johnson at ieee.org
On 2021-01-30 4:14 p.m., Chris Zach via cctalk wrote:
Hm. I have a 9 slot BA11-S that I have to
sell/ebay/something here,
but that's probably way too big for you. I wonder though: Would an
11/93 explode if put in a traditional 18 bit 11/03 chassis? The one
with the memory refresh lines and power for core memory.
Probably.
CZ
On 1/30/2021 12:30 PM, Nigel Johnson via cctalk wrote:
> I'm trying to repair an LSI-11/93 that has a bus timeout problem.
> Unfortunately the BA23 box it normally sits in lives in a cupboard with
> printers stowed on top of it and due to my domestic situation (small
> condo) I can't get it out to scope or get a scope anywhere near it to
> scope the bus.
>
> I'm thinking that the solution would be to get a small QBUS backplane
> that I can put on my desk in the middle of my test equipment.
>
> Like a 4-slot ABAB oir even ABCD would do.
>
> Does anybody have one they don't want?? Power supply not needed.
>
> cheers,
>
> Nigel
>
3:08 p.m.
On Sat, Jan 30, 2021 at 2:20 PM Nigel Johnson via cctalk
<cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
Yes the BA11S would be too big. Can't see why not for the 11/03 chassis.
I used to make a good living upgrading 1/03 chasses with four extra bits
for the 11/23/73 (Hmm, where is my old stock of W933 bus strip!)
Always works except in the MINC laboratory system, which used those four
pins for module identification.
Since all the memory is on-board with the 11/93 I don't think it would
make a difference unless DMA used, and I don't plan to go that far! I
could always wire-wrap them.
The KDJ11-E 11/93 has PMI signals on the CD connectors, so you need a
Q/CD backplane, such as the 18-bit 4x9 H9273, the 22-bit 4x9 H9276, or
the 22-bit 4x8 H9278 (BA23 backplane).
The 4x4 H9270 is a Q/Q backplane, so that would cause a conflict with
the PMI signals on the CD connectors of the KDJ11-E 11/93.
3:58 p.m.
OK, thanks, Glen, i didn't think of that! Not sure why they would do
that with all memeory on-board!
One thing I though of was just buying some IDC 36-pin card edge
connectors and wiring them together for the work bench!
cheers,
Nigel
Nigel Johnson, MSc., MIEEE, MCSE VE3ID/G4AJQ/VA3MCU
Amateur Radio, the origin of the open-source concept!
Skype: TILBURY2591 nw.johnson at ieee.org
On 2021-01-30 6:08 p.m., Glen Slick via cctalk wrote:
On Sat, Jan 30, 2021 at 2:20 PM Nigel Johnson via
cctalk
<cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
Yes the BA11S would be too big. Can't see why
not for the 11/03 chassis.
I used to make a good living upgrading 1/03 chasses with four extra bits
for the 11/23/73 (Hmm, where is my old stock of W933 bus strip!)
Always works except in the MINC laboratory system, which used those four
pins for module identification.
Since all the memory is on-board with the 11/93 I don't think it would
make a difference unless DMA used, and I don't plan to go that far! I
could always wire-wrap them.
The KDJ11-E 11/93 has PMI signals on the CD
connectors, so you need a
Q/CD backplane, such as the 18-bit 4x9 H9273, the 22-bit 4x9 H9276, or
the 22-bit 4x8 H9278 (BA23 backplane).
The 4x4 H9270 is a Q/Q backplane, so that would cause a conflict with
the PMI signals on the CD connectors of the KDJ11-E 11/93.
4:19 p.m.
On Sat, Jan 30, 2021 at 3:58 PM Nigel Johnson via cctalk
<cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
OK, thanks, Glen, i didn't think of that! Not sure why they would do
that with all memeory on-board!
The PMI interfaces of the KDJ11-B and KDJ11-E modules are used to
interface to the M8191 KTJ11-B UNIBUS adaptor in the PDP-11/84 and
PDP-11/94 systems.
5:41 p.m.
Thanks, Glen.? I got out of direct field work around that time, and set
up a subsidiary of Emulex in Canada - so I was more concerned with sales
figures than buses.? That makes perfect sense, I had forgotten about the
11/94. Funny how all my controllers are now Dilog, Plessey, and Sigma :-)
btw, I found an Exabyte 8200 in a pile of stuff I bought at VCF East
last year (but one :-) )? Does anybody on the list have experience
getting this to work on a Dilog SQ703 under NetBSD?
cheers,
Nigel
Nigel Johnson, MSc., MIEEE, MCSE VE3ID/G4AJQ/VA3MCU
Amateur Radio, the origin of the open-source concept!
Skype: TILBURY2591 nw.johnson at ieee.org
On 2021-01-30 7:19 p.m., Glen Slick via cctalk wrote:
On Sat, Jan 30, 2021 at 3:58 PM Nigel Johnson via
cctalk
<cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
OK, thanks, Glen, i didn't think of that! Not
sure why they would do
that with all memeory on-board!
The PMI interfaces of the KDJ11-B and KDJ11-E modules are used to
interface to the M8191 KTJ11-B UNIBUS adaptor in the PDP-11/84 and
PDP-11/94 systems.
5:52 p.m.
On Sat, Jan 30, 2021 at 5:41 PM Nigel Johnson via cctalk
<cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
btw, I found an Exabyte 8200 in a pile of stuff I bought at VCF East
last year (but one :-) ) Does anybody on the list have experience
getting this to work on a Dilog SQ703 under NetBSD?
I'm not sure if I have tried an EXB-8200 and Dilog SQ703 combination,
I might have.
I know I have used an EXB-8200 and CMD CQD-220/TM combination numerous
times to install 2.11BSD and RSTS/E 10.1 from tape on PDP-11 systems.
That has worked well for me.
I haven't done much with tape on MicroVAX systems.
6:16 p.m.
I can't go very far with the EXB8200 because I don't have a cartridge
for it.? I am now trying the Compaq DLT4000.
Unfortunately there is not a lot the on-board Dilog diagnostics can do.?
I have tried sedning direct commands to it such as unload, but nothing
ha[p[pens.it is my oinly hope to get some tapoe backup!
If I try:
dd if=/dev/mt0
of=/dev/null??????????????????????????????????????????????????
I get dd: /dev/mt0: Input/output error
But if I try another LUN I get e.g.
dd: /dev/mt1: Device not configured???
So it looks like it is recognising the drive.
Maybe Compaq DLTs required something that the controller of NetBSD
driver does no know about.
Since I have lost the MTI TSV05 QIC2 controller
cheers,
Nigel
Nigel Johnson, MSc., MIEEE, MCSE VE3ID/G4AJQ/VA3MCU
Amateur Radio, the origin of the open-source concept!
Skype: TILBURY2591 nw.johnson at ieee.org
On 2021-01-30 8:52 p.m., Glen Slick via cctalk wrote:
On Sat, Jan 30, 2021 at 5:41 PM Nigel Johnson via
cctalk
<cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
btw, I found an Exabyte 8200 in a pile of stuff I
bought at VCF East
last year (but one :-) ) Does anybody on the list have experience
getting this to work on a Dilog SQ703 under NetBSD?
I'm not sure if I have
tried an EXB-8200 and Dilog SQ703 combination,
I might have.
I know I have used an EXB-8200 and CMD CQD-220/TM combination numerous
times to install 2.11BSD and RSTS/E 10.1 from tape on PDP-11 systems.
That has worked well for me.
I haven't done much with tape on MicroVAX systems. 
6:23 p.m.
On 1/30/2021 6:16 PM, Nigel Johnson via cctalk wrote:
I can't go very far with the EXB8200 because I
don't have a cartridge
for it.? I am now trying the Compaq DLT4000.
Off the shelf 8mm tape media works
fine.? Might not be "archival" rated,
but I have stuff that is 30 years old and reads fine off both that media
and the 4mm tape drives.
Only tape I have that won't read is one I marked as one I aborted the
backup on and kept "just in case" and is marked "bad".? All the rest
read.
I don't think any of the 8mm media is manufactured anymore, but NOS
should work fine.
thanks
Jim
9:28 p.m.
On Sat, Jan 30, 2021 at 6:16 PM Nigel Johnson via cctalk
<cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
I can't go very far with the EXB8200 because I don't have a cartridge
for it. I am now trying the Compaq DLT4000.
You can still get boxes of sealed never used EXABYTE 112M 8mm data
tapes cheap. For example a quick search turned up a box of 5 sealed
tapes for $6 including shipping:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/124081752928
I didn't try searching for items located in Canada, I suppose that
might make things a bit more expensive.
31 Jan
31 Jan
6:02 a.m.
Not so lucky n Canada!? They wanted $28 shipping!
So I got a box of 10 for $28 - but delivery end of Feb.
Back burner until then!
Thanks
Nigel
Nigel Johnson, MSc., MIEEE, MCSE VE3ID/G4AJQ/VA3MCU
Amateur Radio, the origin of the open-source concept!
Skype: TILBURY2591 nw.johnson at ieee.org
On 2021-01-31 12:28 a.m., Glen Slick via cctalk wrote:
On Sat, Jan 30, 2021 at 6:16 PM Nigel Johnson via
cctalk
<cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
I can't go very far with the EXB8200 because
I don't have a cartridge
for it. I am now trying the Compaq DLT4000.
You can still get boxes of sealed never used EXABYTE 112M 8mm data
tapes cheap. For example a quick search turned up a box of 5 sealed
tapes for $6 including shipping:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/124081752928
I didn't try searching for items located in Canada, I suppose that
might make things a bit more expensive.
30 Jan
30 Jan
7 p.m.
Thank you Jim, John, and Glen.
I'll see if I can find one to tryout.
Good night,
Nigel
Nigel Johnson, MSc., MIEEE, MCSE VE3ID/G4AJQ/VA3MCU
Amateur Radio, the origin of the open-source concept!
Skype: TILBURY2591 nw.johnson at ieee.org
On 2021-01-30 8:52 p.m., Glen Slick via cctalk wrote:
On Sat, Jan 30, 2021 at 5:41 PM Nigel Johnson via
cctalk
<cctalk at classiccmp.org> wrote:
btw, I found an Exabyte 8200 in a pile of stuff I
bought at VCF East
last year (but one :-) ) Does anybody on the list have experience
getting this to work on a Dilog SQ703 under NetBSD?
I'm not sure if I have
tried an EXB-8200 and Dilog SQ703 combination,
I might have.
I know I have used an EXB-8200 and CMD CQD-220/TM combination numerous
times to install 2.11BSD and RSTS/E 10.1 from tape on PDP-11 systems.
That has worked well for me.
I haven't done much with tape on MicroVAX systems. 
6:25 p.m.
On 01/30/2021 07:41 PM, Nigel Johnson via cctalk wrote:
btw, I found an Exabyte 8200 in a pile of stuff I
bought at VCF East
last year (but one :-) ) Does anybody on the list have experience
getting this to work on a Dilog SQ703 under NetBSD?
Exabytes are pretty classic SCSi tape drives. They come in
single-ended and differential configurations, you need to
check which you have.
The downside is they have a short working life. Back in the
day, there were outfits that would
rebuild them at an affordable price, I think they
cannibalized video drives for parts.
I don't know what failed on them, but it seemed that
whatever it was would fail even if powered-off and sitting
on the shelf.
You should have no trouble running them on anything that
handles SCSI tape drives.
Jon
31 Jan
31 Jan
9:12 a.m.
Interesting. I have a Contemporary Cybernetics 8505 drive that I think
used the Exabyte tape system, will have to dig it out and see what it
looks like. Used them at the IEEE Computer Society for years but finally
went with IBM LTO tape libraries at Science. The LTOs were more reliable.
C
On 1/30/2021 9:25 PM, Jon Elson via cctalk wrote:
On 01/30/2021 07:41 PM, Nigel Johnson via cctalk
wrote:
btw, I found an Exabyte 8200 in a pile of stuff I
bought at VCF East
last year (but one :-) )? Does anybody on the list have experience
getting this to work on a Dilog SQ703 under NetBSD?
Exabytes are pretty classic SCSi tape drives.? They come in single-ended
and differential configurations, you need to check which you have.
The downside is they have a short working life.? Back in the day, there
were outfits that would
rebuild them at an affordable price, I think they cannibalized video
drives for parts.
I don't know what failed on them, but it seemed that whatever it was
would fail even if powered-off and sitting on the shelf.
You should have no trouble running them on anything that handles SCSI
tape drives.
Jon
9:18 a.m.
I only have the S (well, there is a second one in the basement I need to
drag up). I did have one of those little 4 slot dual width boxes that
had a power supply but I sold it. Wouldn't help with quad width modules
anyway.
There's another BA23 down there, I'll probably try to haul it up next
trip. Was going to go over today but snow so next week most likely.
I need to sell some of this stuff. The HP1000 and the BA11-S will go on
Ebay unless someone here wants to make an offer.
C
On 1/30/2021 5:20 PM, Nigel Johnson via cctalk wrote:
Yes the BA11S would be too big. Can't see why not
for the 11/03 chassis.
I used to make a good living upgrading 1/03 chasses with four extra bits
for the 11/23/73? (Hmm, where is my old stock of W933 bus strip!)
Always works except in the MINC laboratory system, which used those four
pins for module identification.
Since all the memory is on-board with the 11/93 I don't think it would
make a difference unless DMA used, and I don't plan to go that far!? I
could always wire-wrap them.
Can you ship to Toronto, ON?? How much?
cheers,
Nigel
Nigel Johnson, MSc., MIEEE, MCSE VE3ID/G4AJQ/VA3MCU
Amateur Radio, the origin of the open-source concept!
Skype: TILBURY2591 nw.johnson at ieee.org
On 2021-01-30 4:14 p.m., Chris Zach via cctalk wrote:
> Hm. I have a 9 slot BA11-S that I have to sell/ebay/something here,
> but that's probably way too big for you. I wonder though: Would an
> 11/93 explode if put in a traditional 18 bit 11/03 chassis? The one
> with the memory refresh lines and power for core memory.
>
> Probably.
>
> CZ
>
> On 1/30/2021 12:30 PM, Nigel Johnson via cctalk wrote:
>> I'm trying to repair an LSI-11/93 that has a bus timeout problem.
>> Unfortunately the BA23 box it normally sits in lives in a cupboard with
>> printers stowed on top of it and due to my domestic situation (small
>> condo) I can't get it out to scope or get a scope anywhere near it to
>> scope the bus.
>>
>> I'm thinking that the solution would be to get a small QBUS backplane
>> that I can put on my desk in the middle of my test equipment.
>>
>> Like a 4-slot ABAB oir even ABCD would do.
>>
>> Does anybody have one they don't want?? Power supply not needed.
>>
>> cheers,
>>
>> Nigel
>>
1188
days inactive
1189
days old
15 comments
5 participants
participants (5)
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cz＠alembic.crystel.com -
elson＠pico-systems.com -
glen.slick＠gmail.com -
jwsmail＠jwsss.com -
nw.johnson＠ieee.org