16 Jun
1999
16 Jun
'99
8:30 p.m.
I've gotten my hands on a touchscreen GRiDpad. I don't recall the
model number, but its just an LCD panel with some buttons along the side,
and a stylus. I found a keyboard port pinout for it and build a power
adapter, and can get it to ask me to abort, retry, or fail, but I cannot
get it to do anything remotely useful.
The appeal of this system is that I am a religious GEOS user for
MSDOS pc's, and the idea of having touchscreen-GEOS is pretty cool (GEOS
has built in support for the GRiD's goofy video resolution, I believe, as
well as support for its touchscreen-mouse driver).
My question is this: What do I put on a hard drive to get it to
boot? It seems reluctant to boot off of a conventional micro-IDE drive
that has MS-DOS on it, and if I don't have a drive plugged in it says GRiD
Bios v. something.something.
When I first got it it had no HD in it at all, just two PCMCIA
looking slots, which I would assume to be PCMCIA sockets. One of these
sockets is on a daughter board adjacent to a micro-IDE connector. I am
stuck. I've had this in my basement for quite some time, but I can't
figure out how to get it to boot anything.
On a side note, I've also picked up a 1958 Tektronix O-scope (the
school I go to was tossing it). It works fine, aside from the fact that
the CRT on it scans so far to the left as to be almost off the screen.
Does anyone out there have experience with this vintage of oscilloscope?
Thanks!
Greg
17 Jun
17 Jun
3:23 a.m.
Upon the date 12:30 AM 6/17/99 -0500, Greg Linder said something like:
I've gotten my hands on a touchscreen GRiDpad. I
don't recall the
-- snip --
I can't really help with the GRIDpad Greg but what model is the Tek 'scope?
On a side note, I've also picked up a 1958
Tektronix O-scope (the
school I go to was tossing it). It works fine, aside from the fact that
the CRT on it scans so far to the left as to be almost off the screen.
Does anyone out there have experience with this vintage of oscilloscope?
Thanks!
Greg
Regards, Chris
-- --
Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian
Jamestown, NY USA cfandt(a)netsync.net
Member of Antique Wireless Association
Check our redesigned website!
URL: http://www.antiquewireless.org/
11:24 a.m.
The Tek scope is a model 451. It's a single trace scope. I also
need to figure out how to make a properly configured test probe for this
thing. It's got big RG-58/u type connectors on it.
The GRiD has no accessable CMOS setup that I can find, and the
abort retry fail comes after it says there is an error on drive C. (It
does this when no drive is plugged in. If I hook a drive up, it says GRiD
bios version something.something and hangs).
Thanks!
Greg Linder
1:08 p.m.
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2:21 p.m.
The plug is a PL259, the socket an SO239 IIRC. You can
get adapters from
them to BNC plugs/sockets so you can use normal 'scope probes.
To the U.S. Army Signal Corps, they are indeed known as the PL-259 and
SO-239 pair, and to the U.S. Navy, they are known as 49194 and 49195. I
do not know which came first - my guess is the Navy term. I do not think
they ever received a U or UG prefix, as most post 1945 military
electronics designs went with the N connector.
William Donzelli
aw288(a)osfn.org
3:44 p.m.
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2:47 p.m.
New subject: HP 9000/840 UPDATE
Received a package today from HP. The FREE HPUX 9.00 -> 10.20 software
upgrade had finally arrived. The package contains: The the core OS,
Diagnostics, Patches and extensions, HP-UX recovery, LaserRom
documentation, Instant information, HP-UX install, HP-UX applications,
Hardware extensions, and Upgrade tool. A total of 16 CDs and a handful
of installation instructions.
Very Impressive!
Now the problem :-(
I don't have a CD ROM with a HPIB interface and from what I understand
thay aren't that easy to come by. So... If anyone knows where I could
beg, borrow, or steal one, I'd be forever indebted.
The computer also has a SCSI card in it. It looks like a standard 50 pin
flat cable connector will work here so, it might be possible to use a
"regular" SCSI CD ROM. Is there any reason that this wouldn't work? Can
I boot the computer from a SCSI device?
Steve Robertson <steverob(a)hotoffice.com>
4:39 p.m.
New subject: HP 9000/840 UPDATE
At 19:47 17-06-1999 -0400, you wrote:
<snip>
The computer also has a SCSI card in it. It looks like
a standard 50 pin
flat cable connector will work here so, it might be possible to use a
"regular" SCSI CD ROM. Is there any reason that this wouldn't work? Can
I boot the computer from a SCSI device?
I don't see why not. I was looking at a 9000 today, and it had what looked
like a standard Toshiba XM-3401B SCSI CD-ROM installed.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies
http://www.bluefeathertech.com
Amateur Radio:(WD6EOS) E-mail: kyrrin(a)bluefeathertech.com
SysOp: The Dragon's Cave (Fido 1:343/272, 253-639-9905)
"Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own
human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..."
4:46 p.m.
New subject: HP 9000/840 UPDATE
On Thu, 17 Jun 1999, Bruce Lane wrote:
I don't see why not. I was looking at a 9000
today, and it had
what looked like a standard Toshiba XM-3401B SCSI CD-ROM installed.
I believe the only issue is that HP/UX requires a CD-ROM device which uses
512-byte blocks, not the standard 2048-byte block size of a standard
CD-ROM.
The reason I believe this to be an HP/UX issue and not a boot ROM issue is
that I was able to use a Toshiba CD-ROM drive with a 2048-byte block size
to boot my 9000/715 boxes and install NEXTSTEP that way. As I understand
it this would not have worked to install HP/UX (I have no HP/UX media to
try with).
ok
r.
5:20 p.m.
New subject: HP 9000/840 UPDATE
Re:
I believe the only issue is that HP/UX requires a
CD-ROM device which uses
512-byte blocks, not the standard 2048-byte block size of a standard
CD-ROM.
That sounds right. I've used a Toshiba successfully, and I've also
had a Texel fail to work (old 2-speed drive)
SS
3:42 p.m.
Upon the date 03:24 PM 6/17/99 -0500, Greg Linder said something like:
The Tek scope is a model 451. It's a single trace
scope. I also
need to figure out how to make a properly configured test probe for this
thing. It's got big RG-58/u type connectors on it.
Hmmm, I've got no manual for this exact model but I could give you some
rough guesses as to possible causes. I recommend that you search out a
manual for this machine as it will give you the "road map" you will need to
travel to the solution. Sorta sounds like a simple problem. Maybe one of
the leads to a horizontal deflection plate is broken or that part of the
horiz. driver has failed.
I can help you with suggestions where to hunt for a manual if you like.
Test probes could be a simple hunk of stiff wire if you're not at all
concerned with looking at short pulses or high frequencies (above, say, 200
kHz or so) or low level circuits which could be overloaded by the typical 1
megohm input impedance of the 'scope or by high voltages. But I recommend
you invest in a reasonable probe for your scope. You'll be happy with the
results. $40-$50 for some lo-cost units I've seen advertised plus several $
for a BNC-to-PL259 adaptor. Virtually all probes sold today have BNC
connectors. Contact me off-list about these issues if you like.
The connector type on those earlier Tek scopes like yours is called SO-239.
A PL-259 connector mounted on a coaxial cable plugs into it. Later on, I
can't recall exactly when (mid-60's?), BNC type connectors came into use on
most 'scopes. Lower losses at high frequencies, lower impedance and,
therefore, less rounding of leading/trailing edges of waveforms with BNC conns.
RG-58 and other RG-numbers are coaxial cable type designators. The
RG-numbering system was created by the military over 50 years ago to
standardize coax cable specs for consistent manufacture.
Regards, Chris
-- --
Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian
Jamestown, NY USA cfandt(a)netsync.net
Member of Antique Wireless Association
Check our redesigned website!
URL: http://www.antiquewireless.org/
7:29 a.m.
New subject: GRiD and misc
On Thu, 17 Jun 1999, Greg Linder wrote:
adapter, and can get it to ask me to abort, retry, or
fail, but I cannot
IF the message "Abort, Retry, Fail" came from MS-DOS, not some wannabe
program, then it is the SECOND line of a TWO LINE message. The FIRST line
of that message is the part that has information! The second line is
merely asking what you want to do about it. What does that first line
say?
My question is this: What do I put on a hard drive to
get it to
boot? It seems reluctant to boot off of a conventional micro-IDE drive
that has MS-DOS on it, and if I don't have a drive plugged in it says GRiD
Bios v. something.something.
It might be expecting a hard drive of some specific geometry (cylinders
and heads). Then when it sees something else, it's going to the wrong
location looking for the boot files. Sorry, but I don't know what to do.
Is there an accessible C-MOS editor to set the parameters?
Good luck.
On Thu, 17 Jun 1999, Marvin wrote:
I didn't realize a DOS 1.25 was issued; I only
have DOS 1.1 (1.01?)
There was an MS-DOS 1.25, but not a PC-DOS. The second released version of
PC-DOS was 1.10 Note that the part after the PERIOD was stored
internally as ten, and the part after the period was then ALWAYS displayed
as a 2 digit decimal number. MS-DOS was released to other OEMs, who could
even change the NAME! (Z-DOS, etc.) Most of them (Compaq, etc.) called
that version 1.25 Note that the part after the PERIOD was stored
internally as twenty five.
If you compare 1.10 and 1.25, you will find some differences in the
chrome, trim, and emblems. (like the Toyotas and Geos produced in the
NUMI plant) MOST of the real differences will be in the MODE.COM program,
although there can be changes in IO.SYS to reflect any serious hardware
differences. And MS-DOS v 1.25 from two different computer manufacturers
are different!!! The changes in IO.SYS and MODE.COM were made to fit a
specific weirdity, each one is different!!!!
Likewise, PC-DOS had a V 2.10 (that's "two period ten"), and OEMs had
MS-DOS 2.11 ("two period eleven"), some of which had major changes in
IO.SYS for things like 3.5" drives (which didn't hit PC-DOS until 3.20).
However, MS-DOS 3.31 had a MAJOR internal difference from PC-DOS 3.30 (IBM
never released 3.31 until they renamed 3.40 into 4.00). That was support
of drives larger than 32 Megabytes. (a Megabyte is 1048576 bytes)
--
Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin(a)xenosoft.com
8:24 a.m.
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ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk -
aw288＠osfn.org -
cfandt＠netsync.net -
cisin＠xenosoft.com -
fluke＠mcs.net -
kyrrin＠bluefeathertech.com -
red＠bears.org -
ss＠allegro.com -
steverob＠hotoffice.com