26 Apr
2010
26 Apr
'10
8:51 a.m.
Hi folks,
I'm currently dealing with some RK8E Omnibus RK05 controller board sets.
I was unable to assemble even one stable RK8E from the stuff. I assume a
high failure rate. But I also assume that I have board revision
problems. I've been told that several revisions existed. And that there
were compatibility issues and some kind of paper (which I do not have)
telling what fits what.
I don't even know if the revisions are PCB revisions like "M7104 B2"
written in the etch or if there are also FCOs or alike that make boards
with same etch incompatible to other boards.
My personal RK8E passes all tests. It consists of:
M7104 B2
M7105 B1
M7106 C
But I have other boards flying around here as well.
Do stamps like "310 D" on the backside of the boards have any meaning
with respect to board revision or FCO level?
Another question is how to get different board revisions associated with
the right schematics.
I strongly appreciate any piece of enlightenment since I'm currently
getting depressed by that stuff. Even if I have bad boards - it won't
make sense to try to repair something if the whole is inconsistent in
itself.
Many thanks,
Philipp
26 Apr
26 Apr
10:32 a.m.
I'm currently dealing with some RK8E Omnibus RK05
controller board sets.
I was unable to assemble even one stable RK8E from the stuff. I assume a
high failure rate. But I also assume that I have board revision
problems. I've been told that several revisions existed. And that there
were compatibility issues and some kind of paper (which I do not have)
telling what fits what.
I don't even know if the revisions are PCB revisions like "M7104 B2"
written in the etch or if there are also FCOs or alike that make boards
with same etch incompatible to other boards.
It is possible that some of your boards are actually for an RK8F instead
of an RK8E. I understand there were some blue-wire differences, and I'd
certainly not expect RK8F stuff to work anywhere but in the DW8E (and
with the rest of an RK8F).
But I have other boards flying around here as well.
Do stamps like "310 D" on the backside of the boards have any meaning
with respect to board revision or FCO level?
Another question is how to get different board revisions associated
with the right schematics.
I strongly appreciate any piece of enlightenment since I'm currently
getting depressed by that stuff. Even if I have bad boards - it won't
make sense to try to repair something if the whole is inconsistent in
itself.
I'd also be interested to see some kind of write-up about how to
distinguish these boards in the field.
Vince
11:39 a.m.
It is possible that some of your boards are actually
for an RK8F instead
of an RK8E. I understand there were some blue-wire differences, and I'd
certainly not expect RK8F stuff to work anywhere but in the DW8E (and
with the rest of an RK8F).
Oh.. What is DW8E? What is RK8F? What is a blue-wire?
I'd also be interested to see some kind of
write-up about how to
distinguish these boards in the field.
I've been told that it exists. But I
have no idea how to access the
information.
- Philipp
1:11 p.m.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Philipp Hachtmann" <hachti at hachti.de>
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"
<cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Sent: Monday, April 26, 2010 8:39 AM
DW8E-P Lets omnibus periphs run on posibus machines.
Does not fully support data-break. Supports
RK8F, DB8E, KL8E & KL8F.
RK8-F RK8-E RK05 controller that works on a DW8E.
I have RK8E and RK8F controllers in the basement. I suppose if
all else fails I could dig them out and compare them. My understanding
is that the DW8E does something funky about data break, and that the
RK8F has changes (presumably implemented with blue wires) that make it
work in that environment, rather than with proper Omnibus data break.
I do remember noticing that the engineering drawings are slightly
different, but I don't believe I ever made a list of the differences.
Vince
I understand
there were some blue-wire differences, and I'd certainly not
expect RK8F stuff to work anywhere but in the DW8E (and
with the rest of an RK8F).
Oh.. What is DW8E? What is RK8F? What is a blue-wire?
2:51 p.m.
Hi Philipp,
The B2, B1, and C are the etch levels of the boards. The 310D means the
board was made in 1973 or maybe 1983 during the 10th week. The D is the
eco/fco rev of the board.
I still have some other thing to go over with you off list, and will try to
get to them this week.
Paul
On Mon, Apr 26, 2010 at 7:51 AM, Philipp Hachtmann <hachti at hachti.de> wrote:
Hi folks,
I'm currently dealing with some RK8E Omnibus RK05 controller board sets.
I was unable to assemble even one stable RK8E from the stuff. I assume a
high failure rate. But I also assume that I have board revision problems.
I've been told that several revisions existed. And that there were
compatibility issues and some kind of paper (which I do not have) telling
what fits what.
I don't even know if the revisions are PCB revisions like "M7104 B2"
written in the etch or if there are also FCOs or alike that make boards with
same etch incompatible to other boards.
My personal RK8E passes all tests. It consists of:
M7104 B2
M7105 B1
M7106 C
But I have other boards flying around here as well.
Do stamps like "310 D" on the backside of the boards have any meaning with
respect to board revision or FCO level?
Another question is how to get different board revisions associated with
the right schematics.
I strongly appreciate any piece of enlightenment since I'm currently
getting depressed by that stuff. Even if I have bad boards - it won't make
sense to try to repair something if the whole is inconsistent in itself.
Many thanks,
Philipp
3:02 p.m.
Hi,
The B2, B1, and C are the etch levels of the boards.
The 310D means the
board was made in 1973 or maybe 1983 during the 10th week. The D is the
eco/fco rev of the board.
Ok, etch level is somewhat clear to me - it's marked
in copper. And the
eco/fco stuff - how to keep track of that? And what stands the D really
for? A combination of board revision and eco level?
I'd like to know how to get the right schematic etc.
In the RK8E schematics for example I read "revision a" for the board.
Does that refer to the etch revision or the overall version of the board
including ecos and probably applied fcos?
Is there some kind of straightforward record of eco and fco levels?
What about the relationship between factory installed ecos and fcos? Are
they equivalent?
To me it's all not that clear...
Regards,
Philipp
I still have some other thing to go over with you off list, and will try to
get to them this week.
Paul
On Mon, Apr 26, 2010 at 7:51 AM, Philipp Hachtmann <hachti at hachti.de> wrote:
> Hi folks,
>
> I'm currently dealing with some RK8E Omnibus RK05 controller board sets.
>
> I was unable to assemble even one stable RK8E from the stuff. I assume a
> high failure rate. But I also assume that I have board revision problems.
> I've been told that several revisions existed. And that there were
> compatibility issues and some kind of paper (which I do not have) telling
> what fits what.
> I don't even know if the revisions are PCB revisions like "M7104 B2"
> written in the etch or if there are also FCOs or alike that make boards with
> same etch incompatible to other boards.
>
> My personal RK8E passes all tests. It consists of:
>
> M7104 B2
> M7105 B1
> M7106 C
>
> But I have other boards flying around here as well.
>
> Do stamps like "310 D" on the backside of the boards have any meaning with
> respect to board revision or FCO level?
>
> Another question is how to get different board revisions associated with
> the right schematics.
>
> I strongly appreciate any piece of enlightenment since I'm currently
> getting depressed by that stuff. Even if I have bad boards - it won't make
> sense to try to repair something if the whole is inconsistent in itself.
>
> Many thanks,
>
> Philipp
>
4:03 p.m.
Check out the PDP-8e ECO log document on bitsavers.org:
http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/dec/pdp8/pdp8e/PDP-8E_ECO_LOG_Dec74.pdf
Pages 313-315 have details on the M7104-6 modules
Don
On 4/26/2010 12:02 PM, Philipp Hachtmann wrote:
Hi,
The B2, B1, and C are the etch levels of the
boards. The 310D means the
board was made in 1973 or maybe 1983 during the 10th week. The D is the
eco/fco rev of the board.
Ok, etch level is somewhat clear to me - it's marked
in copper. And
the eco/fco stuff - how to keep track of that? And what stands the D
really for? A combination of board revision and eco level?
I'd like to know how to get the right schematic etc.
In the RK8E schematics for example I read "revision a" for the board.
Does that refer to the etch revision or the overall version of the
board including ecos and probably applied fcos?
Is there some kind of straightforward record of eco and fco levels?
What about the relationship between factory installed ecos and fcos?
Are they equivalent?
To me it's all not that clear...
Regards,
Philipp
I still have some other thing to go over with you off list, and will
try to
get to them this week.
Paul
On Mon, Apr 26, 2010 at 7:51 AM, Philipp Hachtmann <hachti at hachti.de>
wrote:
> Hi folks,
>
> I'm currently dealing with some RK8E Omnibus RK05 controller board
> sets.
>
> I was unable to assemble even one stable RK8E from the stuff. I
> assume a
> high failure rate. But I also assume that I have board revision
> problems.
> I've been told that several revisions existed. And that there were
> compatibility issues and some kind of paper (which I do not have)
> telling
> what fits what.
> I don't even know if the revisions are PCB revisions like "M7104 B2"
> written in the etch or if there are also FCOs or alike that make
> boards with
> same etch incompatible to other boards.
>
> My personal RK8E passes all tests. It consists of:
>
> M7104 B2
> M7105 B1
> M7106 C
>
> But I have other boards flying around here as well.
>
> Do stamps like "310 D" on the backside of the boards have any
> meaning with
> respect to board revision or FCO level?
>
> Another question is how to get different board revisions associated
> with
> the right schematics.
>
> I strongly appreciate any piece of enlightenment since I'm currently
> getting depressed by that stuff. Even if I have bad boards - it
> won't make
> sense to try to repair something if the whole is inconsistent in
> itself.
>
> Many thanks,
>
> Philipp
>
5:23 p.m.
Don North wrote:
Check out the PDP-8e ECO log document on
bitsavers.org:
http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/dec/pdp8/pdp8e/PDP-8E_ECO_LOG_Dec74.pdf
Wow! That looks like what I've asked for. Cool! I did not notice that
document before. Thank you for the hint!
Regards,
Philipp
Pages 313-315 have details on the M7104-6 modules
Don
On 4/26/2010 12:02 PM, Philipp Hachtmann wrote:
> Hi,
>
>> The B2, B1, and C are the etch levels of the boards. The 310D means the
>> board was made in 1973 or maybe 1983 during the 10th week. The D is the
>> eco/fco rev of the board.
> Ok, etch level is somewhat clear to me - it's marked in copper. And
> the eco/fco stuff - how to keep track of that? And what stands the D
> really for? A combination of board revision and eco level?
> I'd like to know how to get the right schematic etc.
> In the RK8E schematics for example I read "revision a" for the board.
> Does that refer to the etch revision or the overall version of the
> board including ecos and probably applied fcos?
> Is there some kind of straightforward record of eco and fco levels?
> What about the relationship between factory installed ecos and fcos?
> Are they equivalent?
>
> To me it's all not that clear...
>
> Regards,
>
> Philipp
>
>
>>
>> I still have some other thing to go over with you off list, and will
>> try to
>> get to them this week.
>>
>> Paul
>> On Mon, Apr 26, 2010 at 7:51 AM, Philipp Hachtmann <hachti at hachti.de>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi folks,
>>>
>>> I'm currently dealing with some RK8E Omnibus RK05 controller board
>>> sets.
>>>
>>> I was unable to assemble even one stable RK8E from the stuff. I
>>> assume a
>>> high failure rate. But I also assume that I have board revision
>>> problems.
>>> I've been told that several revisions existed. And that there were
>>> compatibility issues and some kind of paper (which I do not have)
>>> telling
>>> what fits what.
>>> I don't even know if the revisions are PCB revisions like "M7104
B2"
>>> written in the etch or if there are also FCOs or alike that make
>>> boards with
>>> same etch incompatible to other boards.
>>>
>>> My personal RK8E passes all tests. It consists of:
>>>
>>> M7104 B2
>>> M7105 B1
>>> M7106 C
>>>
>>> But I have other boards flying around here as well.
>>>
>>> Do stamps like "310 D" on the backside of the boards have any
>>> meaning with
>>> respect to board revision or FCO level?
>>>
>>> Another question is how to get different board revisions associated
>>> with
>>> the right schematics.
>>>
>>> I strongly appreciate any piece of enlightenment since I'm currently
>>> getting depressed by that stuff. Even if I have bad boards - it
>>> won't make
>>> sense to try to repair something if the whole is inconsistent in
>>> itself.
>>>
>>> Many thanks,
>>>
>>> Philipp
>>>
>
>
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days inactive
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7 comments
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participants (4)
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ak6dn＠mindspring.com -
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