14 Feb
2002
14 Feb
'02
3:08 a.m.
I have here a book titled _Programmeren can de 6502_ by Rodnay Zaks. It's
just what it sounds like: a book on programming the 6502 in Dutch. What
it was doing in a local charity shop is a mystery.
From the back:
Dit boek is zo' geschreven dat men het programmeren in assemblertaal
van hef begin aan leren kan.
De eerste engelstalige editie was reeds een bestseller op het gebied
van programmeren en deze herziene en uitgebreide editie bevat nog meer
recente informatie en illustraties.
De versheidenheid der programmeringen en technieken richt zich naar de
interessen van elke programmator of hij nu een beginneling of een expert
is.
(I understand enough of this to know that it should give you a description
of the book ;)
(I think :)
I'll send it to any native Dutch speaker that wants it. In the case of
more than one interested party, I'll give it to the person who could most
use it, so please include a short description of why you want the book and
what you would use it for.
Please reply to me directly off-list.
--
Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org
* Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com *
14 Feb
14 Feb
8:36 p.m.
Look nice to see you produce some dutch Selam!
?ven if I was to go into 6502 assembly again I would propably
not read it in dutch. They have a strange way of translating
too much. So "indirect indexed addressing" would translate
to something like: "indirect verwezen adresseringsmethode"
or worse! Some singleword english techterms could easely
result in 5 or 6 dutch words Argggghhh ;=)
Regards,
Sipke de Wal
---------------------------------------------------
http://xgistor.ath.cx
---------------------------------------------------
----- Original Message -----
From: Vintage Computer Festival <vcf(a)vintage.org>
To: Classic Computers Mailing List <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org>
Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2002 3:08 PM
Subject: Programmeren van de 6502
I have here a book titled _Programmeren can de 6502_ by Rodnay Zaks. It's
just what it sounds like: a book on programming the 6502 in Dutch. What
it was doing in a local charity shop is a mystery.
From the back:
Dit boek is zo' geschreven dat men het programmeren in assemblertaal
van hef begin aan leren kan.
De eerste engelstalige editie was reeds een bestseller op het gebied
van programmeren en deze herziene en uitgebreide editie bevat nog meer
recente informatie en illustraties.
De versheidenheid der programmeringen en technieken richt zich naar de
interessen van elke programmator of hij nu een beginneling of een expert
is.
(I understand enough of this to know that it should give you a description
of the book ;)
(I think :)
I'll send it to any native Dutch speaker that wants it. In the case of
more than one interested party, I'll give it to the person who could most
use it, so please include a short description of why you want the book and
what you would use it for.
Please reply to me directly off-list.
--
Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org
* Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com *
15 Feb
15 Feb
11:03 a.m.
On Fri, 15 Feb 2002, Sipke de Wal wrote:
Look nice to see you produce some dutch Selam!
Éven if I was to go into 6502 assembly again I would propably
not read it in dutch. They have a strange way of translating
too much. So "indirect indexed addressing" would translate
to something like: "indirect verwezen adresseringsmethode"
or worse! Some singleword english techterms could easely
result in 5 or 6 dutch words Argggghhh ;=)
Well, all that aside, I thought for sure I'd get at least one interested
response, but so far nothing.
There's got to be SOMEONE in The Netherlands who wants this book! I
certainly can't do anything with it other than stick it in my archive as
an oddity :)
Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org
* Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com *
9:02 p.m.
Although I am in the Netherlands I am not a native
speaker. I will begin my Dutch language course in
April but doubt I will be reading Nederlands
very proficiently too soon. :)
On Fri, Feb 15, 2002 at 10:03:55PM +0000, Sellam Ismail wrote:
On Fri, 15 Feb 2002, Sipke de Wal wrote:
<<snip>>
--
Bill
Amsterdam, NL
Look nice to see you produce some dutch Selam!
?ven if I was to go into 6502 assembly again I would propably
not read it in dutch. They have a strange way of translating
too much. So "indirect indexed addressing" would translate
to something like: "indirect verwezen adresseringsmethode"
or worse! Some singleword english techterms could easely
result in 5 or 6 dutch words Argggghhh ;=)
Well, all that aside, I thought for sure I'd get at least one interested
response, but so far nothing.
There's got to be SOMEONE in The Netherlands who wants this book! I
certainly can't do anything with it other than stick it in my archive as
an oddity :)
2:01 p.m.
On Sat, 16 Feb 2002, William S. wrote:
Although I am in the Netherlands I am not a native
speaker. I will begin my Dutch language course in
April but doubt I will be reading Nederlands
very proficiently too soon. :)
Where else do they speak Dutch besides some rural parts of Pennsylvania
where they generally shun technology? :)
Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org
* Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com *
8:46 a.m.
Sellam Ismail schrieb:
On Sat, 16 Feb 2002, William S. wrote:
Netherlands , The flemish part of Belgium and SouthAfrika ( Sort of ).
As fas as i know this list is complete.
Very few people there rely on Dutch language technical books.
So Sellam, use the book and your 6502 knowledge to pick up a bit of
Dutch ...
regards, Jos ( native dutch speaker )
Although I am in the Netherlands I am not a
native
speaker. I will begin my Dutch language course in
April but doubt I will be reading Nederlands
very proficiently too soon. :)
Where else do they speak Dutch besides some rural parts of Pennsylvania
where they generally shun technology? :)
16 Feb
16 Feb
12:40 a.m.
On Fri, 15 Feb 2002, Jos Dreesen wrote:
So Sellam, use the book and your 6502 knowledge to
pick up a bit of
Dutch ...
That's actually a cool idea. I can borrow from my German lessons. I see
Dutch as almost in between German and English anyway :)
Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org
* Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com *
2:23 p.m.
Try to pronounce "Scheveningen"
Gnaaahhhh ;=)
Many a German failed during WWII and got shot
by the resistance ... ;=)
But your welcome to try Sellam.............
Sipke de Wal
-------------------------------------------------
http://xgistor.ath.cx
-------------------------------------------------
----- Original Message -----
From: Sellam Ismail <foo(a)siconic.com>
To: <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org>
Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2002 12:40 PM
Subject: Re: Programmeren van de 6502
On Fri, 15 Feb 2002, Jos Dreesen wrote:
So Sellam, use the book and your 6502 knowledge
to pick up a bit of
Dutch ...
That's actually a cool idea. I can borrow from my German lessons. I see
Dutch as almost in between German and English anyway :)
Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org
* Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com *
2:16 a.m.
To name a few ............
Indonesia, Papua New Guinea (Irian Jaya), South Africa,
Surinam, Northern France, Flemish Belgium, Aruba,
Curacao and a lot of far out spacecolonies.
Sipke de Wal
------------------------------------------------------
http://xgistor.ath.cx
------------------------------------------------------
----- Original Message -----
From: Sellam Ismail <foo(a)siconic.com>
To: <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org>
Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2002 2:01 AM
Subject: Re: Programmeren van de 6502
On Sat, 16 Feb 2002, William S. wrote:
Although I am in the Netherlands I am not a
native
speaker. I will begin my Dutch language course in
April but doubt I will be reading Nederlands
very proficiently too soon. :)
Where else do they speak Dutch besides some rural parts of Pennsylvania
where they generally shun technology? :)
Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org
* Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com *
15 Feb
15 Feb
8:13 p.m.
On Sat, 16 Feb 2002, Sipke de Wal wrote:
Indonesia, Papua New Guinea (Irian Jaya), South
Africa,
Surinam, Northern France, Flemish Belgium, Aruba,
Curacao and a lot of far out spacecolonies.
Wow, I'm ignorant. I was aware they spoke Dutch in South Africa but not
in all those other far off places.
You Dutch got around back in the day :)
Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org
* Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com *
16 Feb
16 Feb
8:03 a.m.
Goes to show that we were a major colonial power once ...
Sipke de Wal
-----------------------------------------------
http://xgistor.ath.cx
-----------------------------------------------
----- Original Message -----
From: Sellam Ismail <foo(a)siconic.com>
To: <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org>
Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2002 8:13 AM
Subject: Re: Programmeren van de 6502
On Sat, 16 Feb 2002, Sipke de Wal wrote:
Indonesia, Papua New Guinea (Irian Jaya), South
Africa,
Surinam, Northern France, Flemish Belgium, Aruba,
Curacao and a lot of far out spacecolonies.
Wow, I'm ignorant. I was aware they spoke Dutch in South Africa but not
in all those other far off places.
You Dutch got around back in the day :)
Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org
* Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com *
9:20 a.m.
On Sat, 16 Feb 2002, Sellam Ismail wrote:
Many of Upstate New York's old money families are dutch-speakers.
Peace... Sridhar
Indonesia,
Papua New Guinea (Irian Jaya), South Africa,
Surinam, Northern France, Flemish Belgium, Aruba,
Curacao and a lot of far out spacecolonies.
Wow, I'm ignorant. I was aware they spoke Dutch in South Africa but not
in all those other far off places.
You Dutch got around back in the day :) 
17 Feb
17 Feb
2:26 a.m.
New subject: eR
I had an interesting day yesterday. We were given an Ardent, and had to
go up to Harvard to pick it up. While we were there, we were taken
across the street and shown Aiken's Mark I!
9:02 a.m.
New subject: Mark I
Speaking of the Mark I, you might want to check this out:
http://www.earlytech.com/common/show_item.phtml?Id=2016820850
This is an original copy of a Mark I manual. It's pricey and probably
belongs in a museum. Do you know if Harvard has a manual for its Mark I,
Merle?
--Mike
Michael Nadeau
Editor/Publisher
Classic Tech, the Vintage Computing Resource
www.classictechpub.com
603-893-2379
----- Original Message -----
From: "Merle K. Peirce" <at258(a)osfn.org>
To: <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org>
Cc: <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org>
Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2002 8:26 AM
Subject: Re:eR
I had an interesting day yesterday. We were given an Ardent, and had to
go up to Harvard to pick it up. While we were there, we were taken
across the street and shown Aiken's Mark I!
5:13 p.m.
New subject: Mark I
No, i don't, but from the display of photographs and memorabilia on
display with the Mark I, I would assume they have one squirrelled away
somewhere.
On Sun, 17 Feb 2002, Michael Nadeau wrote:
Speaking of the Mark I, you might want to check this
out:
http://www.earlytech.com/common/show_item.phtml?Id=2016820850
This is an original copy of a Mark I manual. It's pricey and probably
belongs in a museum. Do you know if Harvard has a manual for its Mark I,
Merle?
--Mike
Michael Nadeau
Editor/Publisher
Classic Tech, the Vintage Computing Resource
www.classictechpub.com
603-893-2379
----- Original Message -----
From: "Merle K. Peirce" <at258(a)osfn.org>
To: <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org>
Cc: <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org>
Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2002 8:26 AM
Subject: Re:eR
M. K. Peirce
Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc.
Shady Lea, Rhode Island
"Casta est quam nemo rogavit."
- Ovid
I had an interesting day yesterday. We were given an Ardent, and had to
go up to Harvard to pick it up. While we were there, we were taken
across the street and shown Aiken's Mark I!
8:43 p.m.
The Dutch were a major naval power at one time and wrestled the Dutch
East Indies territory from the Portugese. Sumatra was also a colonial
posession of Holland, and the South African presence was for a halfway
point between The Indies and Holland. A friend of mine who was of
Indonesian descent spoke Dutch and gravitated to Holland as a teenager,
much like many British colonists who still view the UK as the mother country
tho they were born in Africa, India, or the West Indies. Surinam, previously
known as Dutch Guiana was the fruits of an abortive attempt at a West
Indies Trading company. The architecture is very Dutch, as is the language.
Lawrence
To name a few ............
Indonesia, Papua New Guinea (Irian Jaya), South Africa,
Surinam, Northern France, Flemish Belgium, Aruba,
Curacao and a lot of far out spacecolonies.
Sipke de Wal
> > Although I am in the Netherlands I am not a
native
> > speaker. I will begin my Dutch language course in
> > April but doubt I will be reading Nederlands
> > very proficiently too soon. :)
>
> Where else do they speak Dutch besides some rural parts of Pennsylvania
> where they generally shun technology? :)
>
> Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival
Reply to:
lgwalker(a)mts.net
16 Feb
16 Feb
3:16 a.m.
At 01:01 AM 2/16/02 +0000, you wrote:
On Sat, 16 Feb 2002, William S. wrote:
The "Pennsylvania dutch" are actually german, for all I know.
Seems that like a case of one person saying "deutsche" and
another hearing "dutch". At least that's the explanation
that I heard from a native. This native was born in a farm,
then went to Drexel university, and now he's a phd and a top
programmer of web applications for research purposes. So
not all "Pennsylvania dutch" are technology averse. His
dad, still a farmer, uses a Mac. So they even have taste
in technology.
carlos.
--------------------------------------------------------------
Carlos E. Murillo-Sanchez carlos_murillo(a)nospammers.ieee.org
Although I am in the Netherlands I am not a
native
speaker. I will begin my Dutch language course in
April but doubt I will be reading Nederlands
very proficiently too soon. :)
Where else do they speak Dutch besides some rural parts of Pennsylvania
where they generally shun technology? :)
15 Feb
15 Feb
8:15 p.m.
On Sat, 16 Feb 2002, Carlos Murillo wrote:
Wow, I'm doubly ignorant. You are, of course, correct :)
Where else do
they speak Dutch besides some rural parts of Pennsylvania
where they generally shun technology? :)
The "Pennsylvania dutch" are actually german, for all I know.
Seems that like a case of one person saying "deutsche" and
another hearing "dutch". At least that's the explanation that I heard from a native. This native was born in a
farm,
then went to Drexel university, and now he's a phd and a top
programmer of web applications for research purposes. So
not all "Pennsylvania dutch" are technology averse. His
dad, still a farmer, uses a Mac. So they even have taste
in technology.
That would probably make a terrific story for Christine Finn. Would you
mind passing along his contact information in private e-mail?
Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org
* Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com *
16 Feb
16 Feb
4:07 a.m.
There are a fair number of Dutch and Dutch speakers in Holland, Michigan and
around those areas. Also Grand Rapids, MI.
--John
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org
[mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Carlos Murillo
Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2002 9:17 AM
To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org
Subject: Re: Programmeren van de 6502
At 01:01 AM 2/16/02 +0000, you wrote:
On Sat, 16 Feb 2002, William S. wrote:
The "Pennsylvania dutch" are actually german, for all I know.
Seems that like a case of one person saying "deutsche" and
another hearing "dutch". At least that's the explanation
that I heard from a native. This native was born in a farm,
then went to Drexel university, and now he's a phd and a top
programmer of web applications for research purposes. So
not all "Pennsylvania dutch" are technology averse. His
dad, still a farmer, uses a Mac. So they even have taste
in technology.
carlos.
--------------------------------------------------------------
Carlos E. Murillo-Sanchez carlos_murillo(a)nospammers.ieee.org
Although I am in the Netherlands I am not a
native
speaker. I will begin my Dutch language course in
April but doubt I will be reading Nederlands
very proficiently too soon. :)
Where else do they speak Dutch besides some rural parts of Pennsylvania
where they generally shun technology? :) 
4:15 a.m.
At 01:01 AM 2/16/2002 +0000, you wrote:
Where else do they speak Dutch besides some rural parts
of Pennsylvania
where they generally shun technology? :)
Amish are German, not Dutch. There's Amish and Mennonites in
many states, including here in southern Wisconsin. They're
allowed to live where they like as far as I know. As for
technology, they will use modern milking equipment, sometimes
powered in alternative ways. Some families attend the local
antique tractor shows. They'll go to a modern doctor
without compunction. As always, there's a FAQ:
http://www.800padutch.com/atafaq.shtml
- John
6:38 a.m.
On Sat, 16 Feb 2002, Sellam Ismail wrote:
Lots of places. The Dutch were well traveled long ago.
Since you didn't get a taker from "native-speakers", why not offer it up
to those trying to LEARN the language?
(I used to have a copy of McCracken FORTRAN (THE classic text) in
Spanish. It was an ideal "rosetta stone" for a friend who was trying to
learn Spanish and was fluent in FORTRAN)
Although I am
in the Netherlands I am not a native
speaker. I will begin my Dutch language course in
April but doubt I will be reading Nederlands
very proficiently too soon. :)
Where else do they speak Dutch besides some rural
parts of Pennsylvania
where they generally shun technology? :) 
17 Feb
17 Feb
8:46 a.m.
New subject: Pennsylvania tech (was Re: Programmeren van de 6502)
On Saturday, February 16, 2002, Sellam Ismail, wrote:
Where else do they speak Dutch besides some rural parts
of Pennsylvania
where they generally shun technology? :)
As noted, the heritage is German, not Dutch.
To say that the Pennsylvania Dutch shun technology, though, is wholly
inaccurate. The Pennsylvania Dutch have no more reason to shun
technology than any other rural community. You're thinking of the Amish,
Mennonite, and Dunkard churches, all of which, in Pennsylvania, are of
Pennsylvania Dutch heritage, and which, to different degrees, reject
materialism, connection with the 'outside' world, and consequently,
computers. Their objections to technology are religious and moral. It
has nothing to do with location nor language.
The close social ties in Amish communities, though, have made it possible
for them to sustain use of the dialect much longer than their more wordly
neighbors, making them easy to idenitfy as "Pennsylvania Dutch". I would
estimate that most of the non-Plain Pennsylvania Germans are Lutheran or
Methodist.
On Saturday, February 16, 2002, Carlos Murillo, wrote:
Seems like a case of one person saying
"deutsche" and
another hearing "dutch".
Pretty much. Mainly, though, it was a case of the Germans saying
"deutsche" and the _English_ hearing "Dutch". :)
Many Pennsylvania 'Deutsche' sailed from Dutch ports, which didn't help
clarify matters, either.
On Saturday, February 16, 2002, ceby2(a)csc.com, wrote:
Please allow me to second this emotion. I'm
originally from York, PA --
about as Pennsylvania Dutch as anyplace. While I intensely disliked it
growing up -- 'technological backwater' would be wrong. Backwater would be
right. Don't think of it as picturesque farms with no electric. Think of it
as aging trailer parks with abuntdant rent-to-own electronics, and plaques
above the toilets reading 'If you sprinkle when you tinkle, be sweetie --
wipe the seatie'. It the sort of place where the peeling paint from
bent-over farm-girl lawn ornaments blend nicely with the recycled tire
flowerbeds and crab grass.
I don't know about taste, but the Pennsylvania Dutch are as technologically
adept as poor white trash anywhere in America.
Colin Eby
(escapee living on the Massachussets coast)
That many of the more adademic and scornful youth move away, shun their
culture, and embrace anglicization does exacerbate matters.
You must have lived much closer to the city than I do, though. In most
of York County, trailer parks are few and far between, while the ever-
encroaching suburbs pose a much greater threat to Pennsylvania Dutch
farming culture.
York County, though, is becoming very industrialized and culturally
"American". Today, one could probably get a much better grasp on
Pennsylvania culture by looking at Northampton or Berks counties. The
"picturesque farms" you can find in any region with Pennsylvania Dutch
heritage - they were farmers, after all. For the "no electric" bit,
you're best off looking in Lancaster County, but there are Amish
throughout the region.
Tom Owad
Applefritter
www.applefritter.com
16 Feb
16 Feb
4:02 a.m.
I've got the English translation of this book, and, frankly, I can't recommend
it. Now, I haven't looked at it since back in the very early '80's when it
was a new publication, but that's because what I saw wasn't terribly good or
useful.
That may explain why there's such limited interest.
Dick
----- Original Message -----
From: "Sellam Ismail" <foo(a)siconic.com>
To: <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org>
Sent: Friday, February 15, 2002 3:03 PM
Subject: Re: Programmeren van de 6502
On Fri, 15 Feb 2002, Sipke de Wal wrote:
Festival
Look nice to see you produce some dutch Selam!
?ven if I was to go into 6502 assembly again I would propably
not read it in dutch. They have a strange way of translating
too much. So "indirect indexed addressing" would translate
to something like: "indirect verwezen adresseringsmethode"
or worse! Some singleword english techterms could easely
result in 5 or 6 dutch words Argggghhh ;=)
Well, all that aside, I thought for sure I'd get at least one interested
response, but so far nothing.
There's got to be SOMEONE in The Netherlands who wants this book! I
certainly can't do anything with it other than stick it in my archive as
an oddity :)
Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
International Man of Intrigue and Danger
http://www.vintage.org
* Old computing resources for business and academia at www.VintageTech.com
*
18 Feb
18 Feb
10:05 a.m.
--- Richard Erlacher <edick(a)idcomm.com> wrote:
I've got the English translation of this book,
and, frankly, I can't
recommend it. Now, I haven't looked at it since back in the very
early '80's when it was a new publication, but that's because what I saw
wasn't terribly good or useful.
That may explain why there's such limited interest.
I remember wanting a copy back in the old days. Having since gotten
one, I would tend to agree. I would never consider giving it and no
other resource to a 6502 newbie and telling them that they'll be fine
(unlike, say, a copy of K&R to learn C by).
It's interesting to me more for its historical context than as an
actively useful book. It was an interesting read for me only because
I could compare what was in there with what I learned hands-on with
the PET and VIC-20 and C-64 and Apple ][, et al.
To reiterate: OK to add to an existing 6502 documentation collection,
not OK to rely on as a primary source of information.
-ethan
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Games
http://sports.yahoo.com
15 Feb
15 Feb
5:24 a.m.
At 02:08 PM 2/14/02 +0000, you wrote:
I have here a book titled _Programmeren can de 6502_ by
Rodnay Zaks. It's
just what it sounds like: a book on programming the 6502 in Dutch. What
it was doing in a local charity shop is a mystery.
I have a Sybex book here entitled _Commodore 64 / Daten, Fakten, Tips_ by
Heiko Schroder that is entirely in German except for a note at the bottom of
the title page that says "Printed in Germany, Copyright (c) 1987 by
Sybex-Verlag
GmbH, Dusseldorf." I bought it at a local thrift shop.
Chapter titles include: Bits & Bytes, Die Musikprogrammierung, Fakten zur
Grafikprogrammierung, Bewegliche Grafiken ganz einfach, Interessantes uber
Interrupts, Fakten uber das Ein-/Ausgabe-Konzept, and so on.
I'll make the same offer as Sellam: if you're a native German speaker who'd
like this book, or you'd like more details, contact me off-list.
Cheers,
Dan
www.decodesystems.com/wanted.html
8185
days inactive
8189
days old
26 comments
18 participants
participants (18)
-
at258＠osfn.org -
cisin＠xenosoft.com -
cmurillo＠emtelsa.multi.net.co -
dan＠ekoan.com -
edick＠idcomm.com -
erd_6502＠yahoo.com -
foo＠siconic.com -
hansp＠aconit.org -
jcwren＠jcwren.com -
jfoust＠threedee.com -
jos.mar＠bluewin.ch -
lgwalker＠mts.net -
menadeau＠mediaone.net -
owad＠applefritter.com -
sipke＠wxs.nl -
vance＠ikickass.org -
vcf＠vintage.org -
wilby98＠yahoo.com