15 Mar
1998
15 Mar
'98
4:26 a.m.
And I just learned that it was safe to tuch motherboard/cards when your
computers on! (BTW, any one know aout DIMM stuff?)
Ciao,
Tim D. Hotze
Actually, I find most precautions such as anti-static and so forth to
be baloney. I must have done every illegal thing in the book, and the
only things I haven't gotten away with was plugging chips in
backwards (by accident). When I was upgrading RAM in the machines in
my school's MacLab, the person in charge of it constantly looked over
my shoulder and bleated, "Touch the case again, Max. I want to SEE you
touch the case. OK, now gently, gently, now. Oooh! Yeesh! DON'T touch
those chips!",etc.etc. I didn't damage anything, but he thinks there
is a problem even with touching the actual plastic case of the chip.
I don't discharge static all over chips, mind you, I just think most
precautions are waay overblown. Or have I just been lucky?
Also, have chips gotten more static-sensitive, or less? Should I be
more careful with a 64 MB DIMM or a 16K chip (cost aside)?
>Same here but some of the kids may never have heard
of a propane
torch!
I'm insulted...
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15 Mar
15 Mar
4:09 a.m.
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8:54 a.m.
Tim Shoppa wrote:
I've seen sites where the admnistration decided that every user must ground
themselves on a special several-hundred-dollar anti-static discharge pad
before they would be allowed to even touch a computer keyboard. I think
the anti-static-equipment salesman did a really, really, good job on these
folks
Any of the static prevention steps apply to prevent accidental discharge, but
not everyone has a natural capacitance that allows them to store and discharge
static electricity. I work with all types of components that could be damaged
and have never even seen a spark or a damaged item. My wife touches anything
and kills it. Of course the humidity factor is also important. In a heated
house in the middle of winter there is a great chance of ESD where summer after
heavy rains with 99% relative humidity lowers all of these factors by a number
of times.
The whole idea of all of this (other than someone making a buck on antistatic
items) is to prevent the POSSIBLE discharge of electrostatic electricity into a
device that could be damaged by such a jolt.
Now when I was changing electrical initiators/igniters on 2000 Short Range
Attack Missile electro-explosive devices, I didn't even try to see if I was
prone to static discharge - I just wore the straps and did the proceedures. The
end result of being wrong was a bit more than a dead semiconductor.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Russ Blakeman
RB Custom Services / Rt. 1 Box 62E / Harned, KY USA 40144
Phone: (502) 756-1749 / Data/Fax:(502) 756-6991
Email: rhblake(a)bbtel.com or rhblake(a)bigfoot.com
Website: http://members.tripod.com/~RHBLAKE/
* Parts/Service/Upgrades and more for MOST Computers*
--------------------------------------------------------------------
And I just learned that it was safe to tuch
motherboard/cards when your
computers on! (BTW, any one know aout DIMM stuff?)
Actually, I find most
precautions such as anti-static and so forth to
be baloney. I must have done every illegal thing in the book, and the
only things I haven't gotten away with was plugging chips in
backwards (by accident). When I was upgrading RAM in the machines in
my school's MacLab, the person in charge of it constantly looked over
my shoulder and bleated, "Touch the case again, Max. I want to SEE you
touch the case. OK, now gently, gently, now. Oooh! Yeesh! DON'T touch
those chips!",etc.etc. I didn't damage anything, but he thinks there
is a problem even with touching the actual plastic case of the chip. 
9:24 a.m.
Max Eskin wrote:
Actually, I find most precautions such as anti-static
and so forth to
be baloney. I must have done every illegal thing in the book, and the
only things I haven't gotten away with was plugging chips in
backwards (by accident). When I was upgrading RAM in the machines in
Not to send out a major flame, but your comments about most precautions
being baloney merely show a lack of familiarity with the problem. As Tony
pointed out (thankfully!), many problems do not show up immeadiately. We
have a number of defense contractors (Delco, Raytheon, SBRC, etc.) here in
Santa Barbara and the steps they go through during circuit board assembly
are rigorous to say the least. In talking to the instructors and others who
are in charge of and actually do the assembly consider static precautions to
be important. If reliability is at all important, don't take the matter of
static protection lightly.
2:46 p.m.
At 07:26 15.03.1998 PST, Max Eskin wrote:
Actually, I find most precautions such as anti-static
and so forth to
be baloney.......
No, unfortunately this can be a real problem, some years ago when working
as test engineer for DNG Electronics, we suddenly had skyrocketing failure
rates in assembly of equipment containing CMOS logic. Everybody involved
was grounded with a 1Mohm wrist strap so this was quite a mystery until we
noticed that when carrying the boards from the test bench to the final
assembly, the lead from the strap was too short and the carrier had to
disconnect it for the 6 feet trip across the floor, this zapped approx. 30%
of the boards. His shoes must have been something!!
...................... When I was upgrading RAM in the
machines in
my school's MacLab, the person in charge of it constantly looked over
my shoulder and bleated, "Touch the case again, Max. I want to SEE you
touch the case. OK, now gently, gently, now. Oooh! Yeesh! DON'T touch
those chips!",etc.etc. I didn't damage anything, ......
Well, we have no way of knowing that. Static damage may just weaken the
chips so they fail later.
.............. but he thinks there
is a problem even with touching the actual plastic case of the chip.
That may also be a problem, the _voltages_ involved can be very high, in
fact several kV, so the sparks jump easily 1/4-1/2" across insulated
surfaces. When handling small items like SIMM?s or DIMM?s the _current_ in
the discharge is way below what we normally can feel or see, so one tends
to think no harm is done, but we have no way of knowing.
I don't discharge static all over chips, mind you,
I just think most
precautions are waay overblown. Or have I just been lucky?
Yes, I hope we are lucky. I do not normally wear an antistatic wrist strap,
I just try to wear cotton clothes, "touch the case" often and avoid rubbing
against all those synthetic surfaces (table, chair, carpet etc.).
When dealing with old equipment I try to be even more careful as it may be
more static sensitive and spares harder to find.
??rhallur.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Thorhallur Ragnarsson Electronics Technician
Bjarmastig 1 Verkmenntaskolinn Akureyri
IS-600 AKUREYRI Box 280
Iceland IS-602 AKUREYRI
E-Mail: thorh(a)ismennt.is Iceland
--------------------------------------------------------------------
3:54 p.m.
On Sun, 15 Mar 1998 07:26:11 PST, you said:
And I just learned that it was safe to touch
motherboard/cards when your
computers on!
I've replaced components (R's, C's, tube sockets, to name a few) in a
ground-based radar system with power applied. (150-300 volts was
common) All that was really needed was another person, (in case of
electrocution) an isolated-from-ground soldering iron, and isolated
tools (e.g. rubber-handled needle-nosed pliers).
We needed to be able to return the equipment to service quickly,
without waiting for reheat times and such. (Don't try this at home :^)
_______________
Barry Peterson bmpete(a)swbell.net
Husband to Diane, Father to Doug,
Grandfather to Zoe and Tegan.
16 Mar
16 Mar
7:48 a.m.
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9626
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9627
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7 comments
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participants (7)
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ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk -
bmpete＠swbell.net -
marvin＠rain.org -
maxeskin＠hotmail.com -
rhblake＠bbtel.com -
shoppa＠alph02.triumf.ca -
thorh＠ismennt.is