6 Apr
2005
6 Apr
'05
2:12 a.m.
A set of manuals?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5181524752
No, guess again. There's a reserve on those.
Another example of where the Christie's auction helped to make people
think that things are worth *way* more than they really are.
Sigh. I usually wouldn't post something like this to the list, but I
just can't believe that someone would try to sell *manuals* that look
like they're not even in great shape for that sort of price..
And my favorite quote from his auction:
"most of these system were destroyed due to the nature/technology of the
system and fear of them getting into the wrong hands"
DONT LET THE TERRISTS GET THER HANDS ON TEH BIG COMPOOTERS!!!
I'd love to see these people do a little bit of research on stuff
they're listing on ebay, instead of just pulling info out of their ass,
or what they heard on some cable news network. At the very least, they
could say "I don't know anything about this" instead of making stuff
up....
Ok, I'm done ranting for tonight. :)
Pat
--
Purdue University ITAP/RCS --- http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/
The Computer Refuge --- http://computer-refuge.org
6 Apr
6 Apr
10:01 a.m.
On Wed, 6 Apr 2005, Patrick Finnegan wrote:
A set of manuals?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5181524752
No, guess again. There's a reserve on those.
Another example of where the Christie's auction helped to make people
think that things are worth *way* more than they really are.
I don't know that we can go blaming Christie's for every over-priced eBay
manual we see from now on (though it may make us feel better to do so ;)
And my favorite quote from his auction:
"most of these system were destroyed due to the nature/technology of the
system and fear of them getting into the wrong hands"
DONT LET THE TERRISTS GET THER HANDS ON TEH BIG COMPOOTERS!!!
I'd love to see these people do a little bit of research on stuff
they're listing on ebay, instead of just pulling info out of their ass,
or what they heard on some cable news network. At the very least, they
could say "I don't know anything about this" instead of making stuff
up....
I think these are the same people that were trying to sell the actual
computer a few weeks ago and were asking for an unlikely sum for that too.
Even though I explained to them a couple times they should be happy if
someone offers to take it away without charging them, they still insisted
on finding a buyer. Duh.
--
Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org
[ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ]
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10:10 a.m.
On Wednesday 06 April 2005 09:01, Vintage Computer Festival wrote:
I wonder if that quote I pasted above (assuming the same seller, which
seems likely) indicates that they finally ended up scrapping the
system. It'd be sad, but with some people, it seems sanity is quite a
ways off...
Pat
--
Purdue University ITAP/RCS --- http://www.itap.purdue.edu/rcs/
The Computer Refuge --- http://computer-refuge.org
On Wed, 6 Apr 2005, Patrick Finnegan wrote:
Well, they mentioned Christie's in the auction, which is why I
associated the two together...
A set of manuals?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5181524752
No, guess again. There's a reserve on those.
Another example of where the Christie's auction helped to make
people think that things are worth *way* more than they really are.
I don't know that we can go blaming Christie's for every over-priced
eBay manual we see from now on (though it may make us feel better to
do so ;) And my
favorite quote from his auction:
"most of these system were destroyed due to the nature/technology
of the system and fear of them getting into the wrong hands"
DONT LET THE TERRISTS GET THER HANDS ON TEH BIG COMPOOTERS!!!
I'd love to see these people do a little bit of research on stuff
they're listing on ebay, instead of just pulling info out of their
ass, or what they heard on some cable news network. At the very
least, they could say "I don't know anything about this" instead of
making stuff up....
I think these are the same people that were trying to sell the actual
computer a few weeks ago and were asking for an unlikely sum for that
too. Even though I explained to them a couple times they should be
happy if someone offers to take it away without charging them, they
still insisted on finding a buyer. Duh. 
12:26 p.m.
The "front end" which seems to be a PC with a syquest drive and an
Archive QIC drive is only worth $59.00 starting price.
clueless from the rest of the prices on their auctions.
Jim
Patrick Finnegan wrote:
On Wednesday 06 April 2005 09:01, Vintage Computer
Festival wrote:
? On Wed, 6 Apr 2005, Patrick Finnegan wrote:
? ? A set of manuals?
? ? http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem?item=5181524752
? ?
? ? No, guess again. There's a reserve on those.
? ?
7:59 p.m.
On Wed, 6 Apr 2005, Patrick Finnegan wrote:
I only skimmed the auction listing. In this case, this is one data point
so far to prove my thesis that the Christie's auction was going to be a
bad thing :/
I don't
know that we can go blaming Christie's for every over-priced
eBay manual we see from now on (though it may make us feel better to
do so ;)
Well, they mentioned Christie's in the auction, which is why I
associated the two together... I wonder if that quote I pasted above (assuming the
same seller, which
seems likely) indicates that they finally ended up scrapping the
system. It'd be sad, but with some people, it seems sanity is quite a
ways off...
They probably did, but only because they were too stupid or indifferent to
at least let someone just take it. And then of course they use that to
create an impetus to sell the manuals for a ridiculous sum (buy these
manuals or we'll shred them!)
--
Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org
[ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ]
[ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ]
8:29 p.m.
I never show the original email what is the item number you are talking
about?
----- Original Message -----
From: "Vintage Computer Festival" <vcf at siconic.com>
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"
<cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Sent: Wednesday, April 06, 2005 6:59 PM
Subject: Re: And $500 gets you...
On Wed, 6 Apr 2005, Patrick Finnegan wrote:
I only skimmed the auction listing. In this case, this is one data point
so far to prove my thesis that the Christie's auction was going to be a
bad thing :/
I
don't know that we can go blaming Christie's for every over-priced
eBay manual we see from now on (though it may make us feel better to
do so ;)
Well, they mentioned Christie's in the auction, which is why I
associated the two together... I wonder if that quote I pasted above (assuming
the same seller, which
seems likely) indicates that they finally ended up scrapping the
system. It'd be sad, but with some people, it seems sanity is quite a
ways off...
They probably did, but only because they were too stupid or indifferent to
at least let someone just take it. And then of course they use that to
create an impetus to sell the manuals for a ridiculous sum (buy these
manuals or we'll shred them!)
--
Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer
Festival
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
International Man of Intrigue and Danger
http://www.vintage.org
[ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage
mputers ]
[ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at
http://marketplace.vintage.org ]
10:23 a.m.
At 09:01 AM 4/6/2005, Vintage Computer Festival wrote:
I think these are the same people that were trying to
sell the actual
computer a few weeks ago and were asking for an unlikely sum for that too.
Even though I explained to them a couple times they should be happy if
someone offers to take it away without charging them, they still insisted
on finding a buyer. Duh.
And that's their right, of course. It's one thing for dupes / dopes
to list the near-worthless items at high starting prices. eBay wins
again - come on, Dad, buy three more balls for $5, I'm sure you can
hit it this time.
It's another for what collectors might regard as near-worthless items to
sell for high prices. The latter is more interesting to me. What,
people are opposed to more recognition and more preservation
when it comes along with higher prices? When will we get an episode
of Antiques Roadshow with old computers? Invite them to the VCF.
- John
"The only way to comprehend what mathematicians mean by Infinity is to contemplate
the extent of human stupidity." -- Voltaire
"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure
about the universe." -- Albert Einstein
"The two most common things in the universe are hydrogen and stupidity." --
Harlan Ellison
"There is more stupidity than hydrogen in the universe, and it has a longer shelf
life." -- Frank Zappa
"There are more fools in the world than there are people." -- Heinrich Heine
"Never underestimate the power of human stupidity." -- Robert Heinlein
10:32 a.m.
And thusly John Foust spake:
It's another for what collectors might regard as near-worthless items to
sell for high prices. The latter is more interesting to me. What,
people are opposed to more recognition and more preservation
when it comes along with higher prices? When will we get an episode
of Antiques Roadshow with old computers? Invite them to the VCF.
It already been done - a few years ago the Atari 2600 and a bunch of rare
games were featured on the Antiques Roadshow...
Cheers,
Bryan Pope
11:36 a.m.
Bryan Pope wrote:
It already been done - a few years ago the Atari 2600
and a bunch of rare
games were featured on the Antiques Roadshow...
What games and how much did they fetch? Average price of a typical "rare"
videogame item at auction (real auction, not ebay), like a game cartridge or
prototype, is around $150-$200. I'm curious how close the AR person estimated
the value was (and how old he was!)
--
Jim Leonard (trixter at oldskool.org) http://www.oldskool.org/
Want to help an ambitious games project? http://www.mobygames.com/
Or check out some trippy MindCandy at http://www.mindcandydvd.com/
2:21 p.m.
And thusly Jim Leonard spake:
What games and how much did they fetch? Average price
of a typical "rare"
videogame item at auction (real auction, not ebay), like a game cartridge or
prototype, is around $150-$200. I'm curious how close the AR person estimated
the value was (and how old he was!)
Chase the Chuckwagon, Tooth Protectors ($100 - $200) and Quadrun ($500 -
$1000)...
For more info goto:
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/roadshow/appraiseit/game52
Cheers,
Bryan Pope
8:02 p.m.
On Wed, 6 Apr 2005, Bryan Pope wrote:
And thusly John Foust spake:
And what was the value given?
(I can't wait to hear this... :)
--
Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org
[ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ]
[ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ]
It's another for what collectors might regard as near-worthless items to
sell for high prices. The latter is more interesting to me. What,
people are opposed to more recognition and more preservation
when it comes along with higher prices? When will we get an episode
of Antiques Roadshow with old computers? Invite them to the VCF.
It already been done - a few years ago the Atari 2600 and a bunch of rare
games were featured on the Antiques Roadshow...
7 Apr
7 Apr
9:08 p.m.
On Wed, 6 Apr 2005, John Foust wrote:
At 07:02 PM 4/6/2005, Vintage Computer Festival
wrote:
That would've been my second. As it was, a Baseball card collector
appraised it(!?) Even though, he still came up with reasonably accurate
values.
--
Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org
[ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ]
[ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ]
And what was the value given?
(I can't wait to hear this... :)
I would've thought your first question would've been
"Who did the valuation?"
3:13 p.m.
New subject: Looking for item number Was Re: And $500 gets you...
Did anyone get the item number for this? Thanks
----- Original Message -----
From: "Vintage Computer Festival" <vcf at siconic.com>
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"
<cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Sent: Wednesday, April 06, 2005 7:02 PM
Subject: Re: And $500 gets you...
On Wed, 6 Apr 2005, Bryan Pope wrote:
> And thusly John Foust spake:
> >
> > It's another for what collectors might regard as near-worthless items
> > to
> > sell for high prices. The latter is more interesting to me. What,
> > people are opposed to more recognition and more preservation
> > when it comes along with higher prices? When will we get an episode
> > of Antiques Roadshow with old computers? Invite them to the VCF.
> >
6 Apr
6 Apr
12:07 p.m.
On Wed, 2005-04-06 at 01:12 -0500, Patrick Finnegan wrote:
Another example of where the Christie's auction
helped to make people
think that things are worth *way* more than they really are.
A while ago I was discussing EBay-like prices with people (for old
computer stuff). Their argument was that EBay prices reflect the true
state of the market and the true worth of classic computer items.
I can see their side of it I suppose; I was just amazed that - coming
from a buying point of view - they just didn't
believe that a world
existed outside of EBay. Which is fine by me if they want to
keep on
paying EBay prices for things (whether they believe they're being ripped
off or not) - I'll just carry on using my brain and getting hold of
things via other routes.
The notion of over-inflated EBay (& co) prices doesn't bother me *that*
much, because in my view the things that turn up on EBay and the like
*aren't* the things that have much interest from a preservation /
coolness / hacker perspective.
*usually* things like service manuals, documentation sets or custom bits
of hardware never make it to EBay etc. because the current owner either
is clued-up and knows that their 'value' isn't in monetary terms, or
they've come by this stuff from elsewhere and deem it such junk that
they can't be bothered to list it in the first place.
In the former case, it tends to pass from collector to collector for
free / trade / peanuts anyway. The latter case is a little more tricky
and the only way items that someone (wrongly) might consider to be junk
get saved is through museums or word of mouth / visibility of the
'target' collector.
So, much of what ends up on EBay are things that the resourceful amongst
us can find anyway - the really rare/useful stuff tends to have a habit
of looking after itself and ending up in good hands.
There are exceptions of course and that's a shame... but providing
someone's stupid enough to keep on paying huge prices at least the
things aren't ending up as landfill.
cheers
Jules
12:20 p.m.
On the other hand, sometimes people post real bargains on eBay, either not
knowing what something's worth or just happy to get rid of it. I found some
great deals this way.
-----Original Message-----
From: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org]
On Behalf Of Jules Richardson
Sent: Wednesday, April 06, 2005 12:08 PM
To: cctalk at classiccmp.org
Subject: Re: And $500 gets you...
On Wed, 2005-04-06 at 01:12 -0500, Patrick Finnegan wrote:
Another example of where the Christie's auction
helped to make people
think that things are worth *way* more than they really are.
A while ago I was discussing EBay-like prices with people (for old computer
stuff). Their argument was that EBay prices reflect the true state of the
market and the true worth of classic computer items.
I can see their side of it I suppose; I was just amazed that - coming from a
buying point of view - they just didn't believe that a world existed outside
of EBay. Which is fine by me if they want to keep on paying EBay prices for
things (whether they believe they're being ripped off or not) - I'll just
carry on using my brain and getting hold of things via other routes.
The notion of over-inflated EBay (& co) prices doesn't bother me *that*
much, because in my view the things that turn up on EBay and the like
*aren't* the things that have much interest from a preservation / coolness /
hacker perspective.
*usually* things like service manuals, documentation sets or custom bits of
hardware never make it to EBay etc. because the current owner either is
clued-up and knows that their 'value' isn't in monetary terms, or they've
come by this stuff from elsewhere and deem it such junk that they can't be
bothered to list it in the first place.
In the former case, it tends to pass from collector to collector for free /
trade / peanuts anyway. The latter case is a little more tricky and the only
way items that someone (wrongly) might consider to be junk get saved is
through museums or word of mouth / visibility of the 'target' collector.
So, much of what ends up on EBay are things that the resourceful amongst us
can find anyway - the really rare/useful stuff tends to have a habit of
looking after itself and ending up in good hands.
There are exceptions of course and that's a shame... but providing someone's
stupid enough to keep on paying huge prices at least the things aren't
ending up as landfill.
cheers
Jules
5:16 p.m.
Jules Richardson wrote:
So, much of what ends up on EBay are things that the
resourceful amongst us can find anyway - the really
rare/useful stuff tends to have a habit of looking after
itself and ending up in good hands.
I do see the occasional interesting item crop up. There
were some "internal" Atari 400/800 design docs (specs,
schematics etc) on there a little while ago. They looked
real and I've not seen their like before (although I'm
not interested enough in such things to have a clue
as to their provenance ... I would be interested enough
to pick them up for nowt if someone hasn't already scanned
them though :-)).
So some stuff does crop up.
The (often but not always) high(ish) prices do not cause
me a problem though. I doubt that local scrapyards have
noticed in general (the car ones I've visited lately
certainly have not ...), I've not found ridiculous
prices at car boot sales, and fellow collectors generally
trade or sell for shipping (or give away).
So the only effect of high prices that I can envision is
that
a) more stuff comes out of the closet and appears in
the bright lights of ebay
and
b) if someone has paid ?50 for some books, there is a
chance that they'll keep them in decent condition or
at least remember that there is a chance of getting
some of their money back when they tire of the item.
As for rare/good stuff looking after itself, I've heard
of too much good stuff heading for the tip before now
just because noone thought it was of any use. I know of
three accumulations of UK electronics mags from the 1970s
(and maybe a bit before) heading for the tip without
being mentioned to me. I still don't think not knowing me
at the time is a reasonable excuse :-) No great loss and
I'm not going to scour ebay looking for such gems, but it
would have been nice to read through them.
Reminds me that car-boot season starts again soon. Must
see if I can pick up some of those R at RE Spectrums or
such like !!
--
---------------
Antonio Carlini arcarlini at iee.org
7 Apr
7 Apr
1:43 p.m.
On Wed, 2005-04-06 at 01:12 -0500, Patrick Finnegan
wrote:
I was discussing this on another mailing list, this time for Citroen XMs
(you don't get them in the US, so a bit of background - they are a big,
weird French luxury car that cost a fortune when new). You'd be amazed
how many people try to sell their "Immaculate R at RE Meteor grey 2.0Si Auto"
with a starting bid of ?500 - for possibly the most common and least
desirable model. Then they get all snotty when you point out that better,
newer and more sellable ones are going for less than ?100. "Oh well if I
can't sell it for ?500 then I'm just going to scrap it" - Well, that's a
shame, you could have got a ton for it, but now you're going to have to
pay to have it taken away.
Gordon.
Another example of where the Christie's
auction helped to make people
think that things are worth *way* more than they really are.
A while ago I was discussing EBay-like prices with people (for old
computer stuff). Their argument was that EBay prices reflect the true
state of the market and the true worth of classic computer items.
3:13 p.m.
On Wed, 6 Apr 2005, Jules Richardson wrote:
On Wed, 2005-04-06 at 01:12 -0500, Patrick Finnegan
wrote:
I've posted pretty lengthy essays on this subject before. Suffice it to
say, eBay is certainly *NOT* the "market value", but only one data point.
--
Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org
[ Old computing resources for business || Buy/Sell/Trade Vintage Computers ]
[ and academia at www.VintageTech.com || at http://marketplace.vintage.org ]
Another example of where the Christie's
auction helped to make people
think that things are worth *way* more than they really are.
A while ago I was discussing EBay-like prices with people (for old
computer stuff). Their argument was that EBay prices reflect the true
state of the market and the true worth of classic computer items.
7073
days inactive
7074
days old
18 comments
11 participants
participants (11)
-
a.carlini＠ntlworld.com -
bpope＠wordstock.com -
gordonjcp＠gjcp.net -
jfoust＠threedee.com -
jrkeys＠concentric.net -
julesrichardsonuk＠yahoo.co.uk -
jwstephens＠msm.umr.edu -
news＠computercollector.com -
pat＠computer-refuge.org -
trixter＠oldskool.org -
vcf＠siconic.com