What Classic Computer are All About - A Lovers View - test-drb@ccmp.vtda.org

10 Jul 1997

Actually, I collect for the sake of collecting, I make no money off it, ask
my wife :)  I collect so in 10 more years, I can play with toys I played
with 20 years ago. That and to watch everyone freak when they see my
dinosaurs alive and feeding on a daily basis.

On a subnote, you all are intelligent people, but man, I think some folks
need to lighten up and enjoy the water.  But I guess, one part of me just
can't relate to, is the "cost of downloading" mail, but I suppose there are
situations where that is a problem, me, I have a cablemodem, so im spoiled
rotten.

As far as knowing what we all have, maybe we should add to our rescue list,
a non fancy, listing of what everyone has, not for trading, but just as a
reference. Then when I'm at my next flea market...etc. I can say, "Hey, I
know John dosn't have a Coco1, maybe he'd like one, it's 2 bucks, Heck, I
just grab it."  

Cya in the funny papers.
Bill G.

----------
...
  From: Brett &lt;danjo(a)xnet.com&gt;
 To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers
&lt;classiccmp(a)u.washington.edu&gt;
...
  Subject: What Classic Computer are All About - A
Lovers View
 Date: Thursday, July 10, 1997 8:34 PM

 First - if you don't want to hear my opinion - stop now! I am going to
 get pretty detailed about what the list is/should be about. I may hurt
 some feelings - but well hell - that's life!

 First from Enrico -

  On the contrary, I think that people are
unsubscribing because in this
 mailing list about collecting Classic icons there is NOT ENOUGH
 discussion about the history of the computing boom and the hows and
 whys that led to it. To just limit the discussion to the mere hardware
 is narrow minded and shows the kind of attitude which leads to consider
 "the other" (the one which begs to differ) as an enemy or at least as
 an intruder. The "dont' bother us as we know what we should be talking
 about" attitude might be legal and understandable but is it wise?  
 No it is NOT wise! However - it is *as you said* understandable. Each
 person is a collection of feelings and memories, sometimes refered to
 as a *pile of the past*. Each of us has had different experiences in
 EVERYTHING we do. No two people view life the EXACT same way.

 Currently, this list is set on the aquistion of hardware. One reason
 is to get it before it's GONE. Another, is the ECONOMY of collecting.
 (I buy it for 10 and sell it for 15 Sam 8-) The point being, in two
 years, if we did nothing - you may NEVER be able to buy it because
 someone junked it! Nothing wrong with making hay while the sun shines.

 The history of computing doesn't lend itself to the IMMEDIACY of hardware.
...
  The history of computing IS. There is no cost in
learning it,
 understanding it, and aquiring it.

 Now, if everybody on the list had an Apple, an Amiga, an Altair, an Imsai,
...
  a DEC 11/24, an IBM 360, two Commodore 64s, a BBC,
etc,etc,etc THEN we
 might sit down and discuss the history. We can discuss it now - but I
 would rather be gathering all the hardware I can get my hands on NOW and
 think about the history.

 I would probably die if someone wanted to give me the Intellec MDS that
 Gary wrote CPM on. That is too much to hope for in this world 8-)

  As already said here several times, computers are
bits of metal and
 plastic. They are important for the sentiments and the feelings they
 managed to raise in each and everybody (and soul) of us. You keep your
 hardware (and I will keep mine so that I can leave it to future
 generations) but I will keep my principles and if this will mean I
 will have to do without you, then (I will be sorry but) be it.  
 As said before, we are all different. I will gladly discuss the history
 of computing. However, if I stray from why I think Turing was a genius
 to WOW I JUST GOT MY RL02 TO BOOT MY 11/23 - you will have to forgive me.
 I'm just that kind of guy.

 On the other hand tho - WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT??? I have seen
...
  the messages from you in the last two weeks and you
have not mentioned
 *history* at all! You have mentioned the social and psychological impact
 of why we collect individual machines - it the same with cars - it the
 same with ANY collectable. But it is NOT what I call - History. Nobody
 NEEDS a twenty year old computer! Not in the USE sense - they NEED them to
...
  remind them of the good times in the past. That spark
of WONDER or GLORY
 or FULLFILLMENT they got from that item. The same as ANY collectable. If
 you have no sense of wonder or glory or fulfillment - you don't collect
 for the sake of collecting - you are collecting for the ECONOMICS of
 collecting.

 On Thu, 10 Jul 1997, Kai Kaltenbach wrote:

 > You're absolutely, terribly correct.  In our benighted shortsightedness
 > we have been ignoring the core, the soul, nay, the very existentialism
 > of the historical man-machine interface and the personal hygiene of Gary
...
   Kildall. 
These bits of metal and plastic have become a zen-like cyborg  [snipped but saved]
  becoming no more than Waldos while Charles
Babbage's heart is ripped
 from his chest by ravens dark as toner, eight claws upon each talon.

 Kai  
 Beautiful! I have not (except for Bill's bathroom story) been so
 wonderfully entertained and amused by posts to the list than this!
 You've gone up a notch in my book.

 Glenn Roberts wrote:

 I for one certainly support Bill's efforts to keep this list on target.  
 Enrico replied

 Yes, agreed, BUT the pint being made here is WHICH is the target? Just
 hardware OR history of the machines as well?

 Pint! Oh point 8-(
 I think Bill summed it up - go ahead - but don't *expect* anyone to
 discuss it with you. The list hasn't been around long enough to develop
 a *personality*. (Did I speak to late!?!?)

 The list doesn't HAVE a POINT. But the people on it do.

 We gather here and there in the faint glow of Cathode Ray Tubes connected
 throughout the world by the wonder of modern man - The Internet - and
 discuss computers that are older than 10 years. Some will never again
 be seen as useful. As some say - "They can have my DEC, when they pry it
 from my cold dead hands!" Some will use them, some will sell them, some
 will lurk in the dark corners, some will boil to the surface with an
 explosion of estatic joy and/or humor, some will solder little
 thingmajiggies together, some will droll on and on about some favorite
 piece of hardware or software, some will leave and others will come. It's
 called "community" - the one thing man has over all other animals. It
 isn't easy, and it isn't hard. There is give and take. Those who give
 constantly will be consumed, Those that only take - will eventually be
 bored. 

 The problem - currently - is Enrico. You have not either explained what
 you want (I certainly don't understand) or what you want isn't here. If
 you can explain - in terms we can understand - I am sure that your desires
...
  can be fullfilled by this list as well as Sam's
(sorry Sam - I see you as
 a hardware mogul - more more more 8-) It is usually best, I have found, to
...
  walk into a group and listen to what is being said. If
an opportunity
 presents itself, interject a question. (I remember that you did this very
 well Enrico) Then if the current discussion recognizes your question, in
 a positive way, you should then be permitted to state your case. This did
 not happen! You should then wait for another opportunity. There is no
 rule that if someone shows interest, you can not start you OWN
 conversation. Just don't keep it on the list - take it to EMail. If
 something important is discussed in private EMail, by all means, if all
 concerned agree - put it on the list. This then becomes more than a
 single observation and then the impact upon the group has more weight.

 I also get a little perturbed when people state "This Weekends Haul".
 I really don't have the time or inclination to read about all the neat
 stuff I DID NOT get. I understand the joy and amazement of those of you
 who do make great deals (Sam Grrrrrr....) but it only makes me feel more
 or less - left out! I usually get one machine (my biggest haul was 12
 clone motherboards - not even NEAR on topic!) and then gather all the
 info I can to get it to work the way it was supposed to. Then every six
 months I get antsy and fire them all up - just to make sure - and then
 spend another month getting them all to work right again. And two months
 paying off the electric bill. BUT - I DO want to know what everybody has!
 If I need help - I will know who to go to! Right now - I just fire out a
 question and get the responses. That is because this is a community.

 Things to remember - every community has a town drunk, a town clown,
 a town cop, and a town fool. It wouldn'tbe a community without them.

 BC 