6 Jan
2014
6 Jan
'14
11:23 a.m.
Hi,
I've been bringing up a PDP-8a system over the past few months. It has 2 x
TU56 (TC08 controller), 3 x RK05J and a 3rd party RX01 dual floppy. The
processor itself is an 8e board set w/EAE and 32K core.
As for media I have 7 RK05 packs, one floppy and about 60-75 dectapes.
My first attempt at booting was with the RK05. It took a ton of cleaning
(and capacitor replacement/reforming) to bring up the 8, followed by
cleaning one of the RK05 drives. (BTW, this stuff apparently was in the
equvalent of a barn for at least 20 years by what I could see).
Anyway I cleaned 2 of the RK05 packs that seemed most likely to be bootable
media but no joy. The drive just seeks to cylinder 0 and sits there,
although I think a data transfer *might* have occured. I suspect that all
of the RK05 packs were for individual user backup. Apparently from the
documentation I have this system at one time had a RL01 attached.
Next I worked on the better looking of the two TU56's. I've got one drive
shuttling okay; the other half has no torque in one direction; I suspect I
need to replace yet another AC motor run capacitor.
The TC08 checked out okay and I replaced all of the das blinken lights with
new bulbs, it looks really cool.
Then the big test. I picked out a tape that had a listing with it
indicating that it was a system tape of some sort (Focal, editor, etc.)
I toggled in the TC08 boot code (since my M8317 has the wrong boot roms for
it) and hit run. The tape wound back to the beginning, reversed, seemed to
transfer many blocks of data and then just spins in a loop.
So the next step would obviously be to run some TC08/TU56 diagnostics but I
don't have any way of loading them.
If I had an RK05 pack with OS8 + diags on it that would work but I don't
see that happening. Perhaps another alternative would be to get the
equivalent on RX01 floppies from someone, but I don't even know if the
floppy system works yet.
So for now I think figuring out how to make a combo terminal emulator/raw
data file thingy might be the best way to go. I'm thinking of putting a
beagleboard to use for this unless anyone out there has a simpler/quicker
solution.
Suggestions anyone?
Thanks,
Marc
6 Jan
6 Jan
12:39 p.m.
-----Original Message-----
From: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-
bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Marc Howard
Sent: Monday, January 06, 2014 11:24 AM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic Posts Only
Subject: Easiest way to get MAINDEC diags onto a PDP-8 (sans paper tape)
Hi,
I've been bringing up a PDP-8a system over the past few months. It has 2 x
TU56 (TC08 controller), 3 x RK05J and a 3rd party RX01 dual floppy. The
processor itself is an 8e board set w/EAE and 32K core.
As for media I have 7 RK05 packs, one floppy and about 60-75 dectapes.
My first attempt at booting was with the RK05. It took a ton of cleaning (and
capacitor replacement/reforming) to bring up the 8, followed by cleaning one
of the RK05 drives. (BTW, this stuff apparently was in the equvalent of a barn
for at least 20 years by what I could see).
Anyway I cleaned 2 of the RK05 packs that seemed most likely to be bootable
media but no joy. The drive just seeks to cylinder 0 and sits there, although I
think a data transfer *might* have occured. I suspect that all of the RK05
packs were for individual user backup. Apparently from the documentation I
have this system at one time had a RL01 attached.
Next I worked on the better looking of the two TU56's. I've got one drive
shuttling okay; the other half has no torque in one direction; I suspect I need
to replace yet another AC motor run capacitor.
The TC08 checked out okay and I replaced all of the das blinken lights with
new bulbs, it looks really cool.
Then the big test. I picked out a tape that had a listing with it indicating that it
was a system tape of some sort (Focal, editor, etc.)
I toggled in the TC08 boot code (since my M8317 has the wrong boot roms for
it) and hit run. The tape wound back to the beginning, reversed, seemed to
transfer many blocks of data and then just spins in a loop.
So the next step would obviously be to run some TC08/TU56 diagnostics but I
don't have any way of loading them.
If I had an RK05 pack with OS8 + diags on it that would work but I don't see
that happening. Perhaps another alternative would be to get the equivalent
on RX01 floppies from someone, but I don't even know if the floppy system
works yet.
So for now I think figuring out how to make a combo terminal emulator/raw
data file thingy might be the best way to go. I'm thinking of putting a
beagleboard to use for this unless anyone out there has a simpler/quicker
solution.
Suggestions anyone?
When I was bringing up our 8/e, the last idea you mentioned is what I did, just from a
laptop with a terminal emulator and use David Gesswein's sendtape program to load
diagnostics from papertape image. The TC08 has several adjustments that can easily get
out of trim, and the standalone diagnostic for it includes several scope loops to make it
easier to adjust those. Of course, you still have to sort your way through a gazillion
wirewrap pins and get the scope probe on the right one.... -- Ian
3 p.m.
I wasn't aware of sendtape; that looks useful.
The real long term goal for the beagleboard is put the pdp8's serial port
on my home network. There is a public domain program called ser2net that I
use at work which maps serial ports on a server to telnet ports. Thus you
can just type something like 'telnet foo 2000' from a host and if port 2000
on machine foo has a ser2net server sitting on it that is connected to
/dev/ttyXX then basically you get that serial port tunneled to your
laptop/pda/whatever.
What I'm thinking of doing is running ser2net on the beagle and modifying
the code so that it not only listens to the serial port but also has access
to the reader flag. Thus when the flag is set output can come from a file
and when it goes low normal terminal operation resumes.
Marc
On Mon, Jan 6, 2014 at 12:39 PM, Ian King <IanK at livingcomputermuseum.org>wrote:
-----Original
Message-----
From: cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-
bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Marc Howard
Sent: Monday, January 06, 2014 11:24 AM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic Posts Only
Subject: Easiest way to get MAINDEC diags onto a PDP-8 (sans paper tape)
Hi,
I've been bringing up a PDP-8a system over the past few months. It has
2 x
TU56 (TC08 controller), 3 x RK05J and a 3rd party
RX01 dual floppy. The
processor itself is an 8e board set w/EAE and 32K core.
As for media I have 7 RK05 packs, one floppy and about 60-75 dectapes.
My first attempt at booting was with the RK05. It took a ton of
cleaning (and
capacitor replacement/reforming) to bring up the
8, followed by cleaning
one
of the RK05 drives. (BTW, this stuff apparently
was in the equvalent of
a barn
for at least 20 years by what I could see).
Anyway I cleaned 2 of the RK05 packs that seemed most likely to be
bootable
media but no joy. The drive just seeks to
cylinder 0 and sits there,
although I
think a data transfer *might* have occured. I
suspect that all of the
RK05
packs were for individual user backup.
Apparently from the
documentation I
have this system at one time had a RL01
attached.
Next I worked on the better looking of the two TU56's. I've got one
drive
shuttling okay; the other half has no torque in
one direction; I suspect
I need
to replace yet another AC motor run capacitor.
The TC08 checked out okay and I replaced all of the das blinken lights
with
new bulbs, it looks really cool.
Then the big test. I picked out a tape that had a listing with it
indicating that
it
was a system tape of some sort (Focal, editor,
etc.)
I toggled in the TC08 boot code (since my M8317 has the wrong boot roms
for
it) and hit run. The tape wound back to the
beginning, reversed, seemed
to
transfer many blocks of data and then just spins
in a loop.
So the next step would obviously be to run some TC08/TU56 diagnostics
but I
don't have any way of loading them.
If I had an RK05 pack with OS8 + diags on it that would work but I don't
see
that happening. Perhaps another alternative
would be to get the
equivalent
on RX01 floppies from someone, but I don't
even know if the floppy system
works yet.
So for now I think figuring out how to make a combo terminal emulator/raw
data file thingy might be the best way to go. I'm thinking of putting a
beagleboard to use for this unless anyone out there has a simpler/quicker
solution.
Suggestions anyone?
When I was bringing up our 8/e, the last idea you mentioned is what I did,
just from a laptop with a terminal emulator and use David Gesswein's
sendtape program to load diagnostics from papertape image. The TC08 has
several adjustments that can easily get out of trim, and the standalone
diagnostic for it includes several scope loops to make it easier to adjust
those. Of course, you still have to sort your way through a gazillion
wirewrap pins and get the scope probe on the right one.... -- Ian
14 Feb
14 Feb
4:58 a.m.
Am 07.01.2014 00:00, schrieb Marc Howard:
What I'm thinking of doing is running ser2net on
the beagle and modifying
the code so that it not only listens to the serial port but also has access
to the reader flag. Thus when the flag is set output can come from a file
and when it goes low normal terminal operation resumes.
You can safely forget the
reader flag. Really.
Start RIM or BIN loader on the 8, send down the tape, and you're done.
19200 is no problem at all. I think I remember that 38400 works as well
- witout any handshake or reader flag.
And on a Linux box cou can use
cat <file> > /dev/ttySn resp. /dev/ttyUSBn
8:50 a.m.
Actually the reason I'm thinking of using the reader flag is so that a file
(say 'foo.pa') can be specified and when the reader flag goes active it can
automatically start sending it over.
Marc
On Fri, Feb 14, 2014 at 4:58 AM, Philipp Hachtmann <hachti at hachti.de> wrote:
Am 07.01.2014 00:00, schrieb Marc Howard:
What I'm thinking of doing is running ser2net on the beagle and modifying
the code so that it not only listens to the
serial port but also has
access
to the reader flag. Thus when the flag is set output can come from a file
and when it goes low normal terminal operation resumes.
You can safely forget the reader flag. Really.
Start RIM or BIN loader on the 8, send down the tape, and you're done.
19200 is no problem at all. I think I remember that 38400 works as well -
witout any handshake or reader flag.
And on a Linux box cou can use
cat <file> > /dev/ttySn resp. /dev/ttyUSBn
6 Jan
6 Jan
12:44 p.m.
On 1/6/2014 11:23 AM, Marc Howard wrote:
Hi,
I've been bringing up a PDP-8a system over the past few months. It has 2 x
TU56 (TC08 controller), 3 x RK05J and a 3rd party RX01 dual floppy. The
processor itself is an 8e board set w/EAE and 32K core.
As for media I have 7 RK05 packs, one floppy and about 60-75 dectapes.
My first attempt at booting was with the RK05. It took a ton of cleaning
(and capacitor replacement/reforming) to bring up the 8, followed by
cleaning one of the RK05 drives. (BTW, this stuff apparently was in the
equvalent of a barn for at least 20 years by what I could see).
Anyway I cleaned 2 of the RK05 packs that seemed most likely to be bootable
media but no joy. The drive just seeks to cylinder 0 and sits there,
although I think a data transfer *might* have occured. I suspect that all
of the RK05 packs were for individual user backup. Apparently from the
documentation I have this system at one time had a RL01 attached.
Next I worked on the better looking of the two TU56's. I've got one drive
shuttling okay; the other half has no torque in one direction; I suspect I
need to replace yet another AC motor run capacitor.
The TC08 checked out okay and I replaced all of the das blinken lights with
new bulbs, it looks really cool.
Then the big test. I picked out a tape that had a listing with it
indicating that it was a system tape of some sort (Focal, editor, etc.)
I toggled in the TC08 boot code (since my M8317 has the wrong boot roms for
it) and hit run. The tape wound back to the beginning, reversed, seemed to
transfer many blocks of data and then just spins in a loop.
So the next step would obviously be to run some TC08/TU56 diagnostics but I
don't have any way of loading them.
If I had an RK05 pack with OS8 + diags on it that would work but I don't
see that happening. Perhaps another alternative would be to get the
equivalent on RX01 floppies from someone, but I don't even know if the
floppy system works yet.
So for now I think figuring out how to make a combo terminal emulator/raw
data file thingy might be the best way to go. I'm thinking of putting a
beagleboard to use for this unless anyone out there has a simpler/quicker
solution.
Suggestions anyone?
Thanks,
Marc
For my PDP-8m which only has serial cards, I load all software thru the
console port via the
RIM and/or BIN loader. I have one of the diode-ROM boot boards setup
with the RIM loader
for the console port, so the boot switch starts the RIM loader
listening. Then I download (using
Teraterm) either RIM format paper tape images, or the RIM format BIN
loader follower by BIN
format paper tape images.
Works just fine, and the process does not take long at 9600baud to load
one or two fields at
most of program image.
I don't know if the PDP-8a has a RIM and/or BIN loader for the console
(or serial PTR) in it's boot
ROM(s), but it would probably be fairly straightforward to
write/adapt/program a new BOOT ROM
if need be. It would most certainly be easier than reprogramming the
diode-ROM boot boards I
used on the 8m ...
Don
3:02 p.m.
On 06/01/2014 19:23, Marc Howard wrote:
So the next step would obviously be to run some
TC08/TU56 diagnostics but I
don't have any way of loading them.
[...]
So for now I think figuring out how to make a combo
terminal emulator/raw
data file thingy might be the best way to go. I'm thinking of putting a
beagleboard to use for this unless anyone out there has a simpler/quicker
solution.
The way I do it is to keep the diagnostics (or other programs) in RIM or
BIN format as files on my desktop (which happens to be an SGI machine
but this works just as well on a laptop running Linux). I have the RIM
loader toggled in to my 8/E; nothing much overwrites it (unless
something runs amok) and I use Kevin McQuiggin's "send" program to send
files over a serial port (generic USB adapter on the laptop) at 4800
baud (it can go faster, though). The RIM loader can load the BIN loader
pretty quickly; that's how it was done back in the day.
There's also a small programs that will convert columns of address/data
pairs -- such as from an assembler listing -- to RIM format if you don't
have something to generate a RIM/BIN file. However, if you're writing
stuff yourself, most assemblers will produce a RIM or BIN file, and most
DEC diagnostics are in BIN format anyway. BTW, the sender program knows
how to strip cruft such as headers from paper tape images so my ptp
images have simulated human-readable headers, as do a lot of others
around the net.
http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/pdp8/
Look about one screenful down the page for the "Software" section.
You might also look at http://www.dunnington.u-net.com/public/PDP-8/
where there are my copies of rsend and manpage (the RIM client), rim and
manpage (convert address/data to RIM format), the palbart
cross-assembler and manpage, and listings of the two RIM loaders you can
toggle in.
--
Pete Peter Turnbull
Network Manager
University of York
5:07 p.m.
On Mon, Jan 06, 2014 at 11:23:53AM -0800, Marc Howard wrote:
So the next step would obviously be to run some
TC08/TU56 diagnostics but I
don't have any way of loading them.
It looks like you have gotten the answer already. Below is the location for
my dump restore which includes a paper tape sending program. No real
advantage for it over the others around. It does also have program for
dumping and restoring your RK05's and possibly TC08 DECtapes. I don't
have a TC08 so it has only been tested with SIMH. If you try it let me
know if it works for you.
http://www.pdp8online.com/ftp/software/dumprest/
I have bootable RK05 and DECtape images which can be written with above.
The ones of interest are under os8
http://www.pdp8online.com/images/index.shtml
13 Feb
13 Feb
1:46 p.m.
David,
I wonder if you could help me again with my TC08/TU56.
First, I've been able to write/readback several TU56 images using
dump/resttc08. After being read back I can do a diff against the original
image and they are exactly the same.
Also, the TC08 passes all of the maindec tests.
However, if I try to boot off of tape many blocks are read in (a hundred or
so) and the processor runs off into never, never land. Once it even
de-selected the drive but left the tape in motion.
I'd like to try reading one of these tapes under OS/8 booting on my RK05.
However all the disk images I've tried are pre-build for TD8E. Most don't
seem to include the TC08 handler, but diagpack2.rk05 appears to have it.
However (going from memory here) if I try:
.RUN SYS BUILD
$IN TC08
I get a message like (I think)
FILE NOT FOUND
I've tried all kinds of variations on this and I can't seem to install the
TC08 handler.
Could you tell me what I'm missing/doing wrong? The diagpack2.rk05 image
has TC08.SY and TC08.HN; isn't that what I need?
Thanks,
Marc
On Mon, Jan 6, 2014 at 5:07 PM, David Gesswein <djg at pdp8online.com> wrote:
On Mon, Jan 06, 2014 at 11:23:53AM -0800, Marc Howard
wrote:
So the next step would obviously be to run some
TC08/TU56 diagnostics
but I
don't have any way of loading them.
It looks like you have gotten the answer already. Below is the location for
my dump restore which includes a paper tape sending program. No real
advantage for it over the others around. It does also have program for
dumping and restoring your RK05's and possibly TC08 DECtapes. I don't
have a TC08 so it has only been tested with SIMH. If you try it let me
know if it works for you.
http://www.pdp8online.com/ftp/software/dumprest/
I have bootable RK05 and DECtape images which can be written with above.
The ones of interest are under os8
http://www.pdp8online.com/images/index.shtml
3924
days inactive
3963
days old
8 comments
6 participants
participants (6)
-
ak6dn＠mindspring.com -
cramcram＠gmail.com -
djg＠pdp8online.com -
hachti＠hachti.de -
IanK＠LivingComputerMuseum.org -
pete＠dunnington.plus.com