8 Jan
2008
8 Jan
'08
12:54 a.m.
very much strapped for cash. If you're interested,
e-mail an offer off-list. I have to admit it's not
going to go cheaply...snifful
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8 Jan
8 Jan
3:34 p.m.
From: chrism3667 at yahoo.com
very much strapped for cash. If you're interested,
e-mail an offer off-list. I have to admit it's not
going to go cheaply...snifful
Hi
That is too bad. I consider the Cat as one of the machines
I'd be least likely to sell.
Most had considered the CAT to be a closed system. Of course,
this wasn't true. There was actually a development package
one could get that included manuals on how to deal with the
Forth inside.
I'd found a copy of these in the Standford Special Collections
Library. They are real fussy about copying but I spent several
hours making notes.
I've posted much of the information I've gathered on the DigiBarn
site. I was mostly interested in connecting a HP printer to
the machine since I didn't have one of the Canon printers.
Besided the unique editor, the machine had the potential to be
much more than was the final version that Canon released.
Jef Raskin complained that by the time it made it to the market,
it was stripped down. Because the cheap printer they sold with
it didn't have proportional spacing, most believed that it couldn't
handle it. Of course the code was in there ready to use with
the right printer. Other compromises were made as well.
The mother board has spots for another 256K of RAM. Looking at
the disk drive, it seems to be a 400K single sided drive that the
Cat only used 256K of.
The processor is a 68K but the Forth inside is easy to work with
since most any low level words a person could want to access
hardware are all ready there.
One can also write code for it directly in the editor and then
simply compile the code into RAM. Since the machine keeps
an image of the RAM on disk, one can either just save the source
or keep the compiled code for other purposes.
I've spent many hours of enjoyment exploring my Cat. I know
there is much more that I've not dug into.
Dwight
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8:55 p.m.
Hey Dwight, being that I've yet to open mine up, is
there a.n.y proprietary logic on the mobo? Being that
it was released in 1987, I can't imagine there not
being something - even a PAL or whatnot.
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9 Jan
9 Jan
2:13 p.m.
Hi Chris
All of the I/O, Floppy, video, modem and such, are through custom
Canon chips. I'm told that they emulate standard chips because
they originally built the prototypes with standard off the shelf parts.
I don't know if Canon used the same IC's in other machines or
if they were just for the Cat.
I don't recall seeing any PAL's but then I wasn't looking for
such. The reason I opened mine up was to replace the battery
for the CMOS RAM. I just looked around to see what else was there.
I recall noting that most of the memory was 16 bits wide except
for the CMOS that was 8 bit on even addresses.
When I decompiled the code for the CMOS, I noted that it use
an 8 bit instruction that was not used on later versions of the
68K.
Dwight
Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2008 12:55:46 -0800
From: chrism3667 at yahoo.com
To: cctalk at classiccmp.org
Subject: RE: contemplating selling my Canon Cat
Hey Dwight, being that I've yet to open mine up, is
there a.n.y proprietary logic on the mobo? Being that
it was released in 1987, I can't imagine there not
being something - even a PAL or whatnot.
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11:40 p.m.
Hi Chris
All of the I/O, Floppy, video, modem and such, are through custom
Canon chips. I'm told that they emulate standard chips because
they originally built the prototypes with standard off the shelf parts.
Ouch!. Before I read that, the Cat was high uop on my (mental) list of
desirable machines. Now it's at the bottom :-(.
How much is known about these ICs? Software interface (registers, etc)?
Pinouts?
-tony
10 Jan
10 Jan
3:06 a.m.
From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk
Hi Tony
The fail rate on these parts is quite low. I know a fellow in Oregon
that uses around 6 of these daily in his business. The only fails he's
had is one CRT and several disk drives. He has been using them
for years!
The disk drive is hard to find. They have a 20 pin ribbon cable intead
of the more standard cable connector. This cable supplies the power as well.
Like I said, these do emulate standard off the shelf parts, it
is just that I've not dug into the code enough to see what
might be the particular part used. I've seen the low level disk code
and it look familiar. I think it is 765 but don't quoke me on that.
The display is a question. I know there are several value in the init
routine that are sent to it but I have no idea what it might be.
The video is bit mapped in RAM so doing graphics is easy enough.
Anyway, the price is most likely higher than what you might expect.
The last one on ebay went for around $800. Unless your just lucky
( Like another I know on this list ) it may not seem worth getting.
I payed about $250 for mine ( including shipping ) and was happy
( lucky types find them for $25 ).
Dwight
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Hi Chris
All of the I/O, Floppy, video, modem and such, are through custom
Canon chips. I'm told that they emulate standard chips because
they originally built the prototypes with standard off the shelf parts.
Ouch!. Before I read that, the Cat was high uop on my (mental) list of
desirable machines. Now it's at the bottom :-(.
How much is known about these ICs? Software interface (registers, etc)?
Pinouts?
-tony
9:43 p.m.
>> All of the I/O, Floppy, video, modem and
such, are through custom
>> Canon chips. I'm told that they emulate standard chips because
>> they originally built the prototypes with standard off the shelf parts.
>
> Ouch!. Before I read that, the Cat was high uop on my (mental) list of
> desirable machines. Now it's at the bottom :-(.
>
> How much is known about these ICs? Software interface (registers, etc)?
> Pinouts?
The fail rate on these parts is quite low. I know a
fellow in Oregon
that uses around 6 of these daily in his business. The only fails he's
Err, yes, but it still makes the machine a lot less interesting for a
hardware hacker like me.
had is one CRT and several disk drives. He has been
using them
for years!
The disk drive is hard to find. They have a 20 pin ribbon cable intead
of the more standard cable connector. This cable supplies the power as well.
Is it standard signals and data rates? If so, presuamly an adaptor could
be wired up.
Like I said, these do emulate standard off the shelf parts, it
is just that I've not dug into the code enough to see what
might be the particular part used. I've seen the low level disk code
and it look familiar. I think it is 765 but don't quoke me on that.
The display is a question. I know there are several value in the init
routine that are sent to it but I have no idea what it might be.
The video is bit mapped in RAM so doing graphics is easy enough.
Anyway, the price is most likely higher than what you might expect.
The last one on ebay went for around $800. Unless your just lucky
YEs, I realise they're not exactly cheap, and finding one in the UK is
almost impossible (this is not the sort of thing I'd risk having shipped.
I've seen what shipping companies can do to well-packed HP (== built like
a brick outhouse) machines.
Now while I _would_ consider spending that sort of money on a classic
computer, I'd not now sped it on a Cat. The reason is that I couldn't
maintain the Cat, due to all that custom silicon. And if one of those
chips failes, I've essentially lost my money. Whereas if a TTL chip fails
in an old minicomputer, I can probanly get the machine goign again. The
chip in questiuon may well have not been made for many years, but there
are likely to still be soem around and if not, I can get data and kludge
up a substitute. This doesn't apply to the Cat's custom chips.
-tony
8 Jan
8 Jan
6:53 p.m.
New subject: youtube movie of making a vacuum triode.
This is in french but the video is priceless! 17 minutes long.
Worth taking your favorite drink and take a seat.
http://blog.makezine.com/archive/2008/01/make_your_own_vaccum_tube.ht
ml
Cheers, Wizard
9 Jan
9 Jan
12:04 a.m.
New subject: youtube movie of making a vacuum triode.
OMG, that is soooo amazing. Proof positive that you can make anything with
the proper tools. Mesmerizing.
On 1/8/08 1:53 PM, "jpero at sympatico.ca" <jpero at sympatico.ca> wrote:
This is in french but the video is priceless! 17
minutes long.
Worth taking your favorite drink and take a seat.
http://blog.makezine.com/archive/2008/01/make_your_own_vaccum_tube.ht
ml
Cheers, Wizard
Rich
--
Rich Cini
Collector of Classic Computers
Build Master and lead engineer, Altair32 Emulator
http://www.altair32.com
http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp
11 Jan
11 Jan
12:48 a.m.
New subject: youtube movie of making a vacuum triode.
just what is that spot welding contraption? It appears
to work on a principle similar to a *resistance
soldering* unit, that actually uses carbon rods (at
one time you could pull them from batteries, not
anymore though).
Definitely wild, but just how varied are the devices
that could be built w/those simple, though elegant,
methods? All he did was build what appears to be an AM
receiver.
--- "Richard A. Cini" <rcini at optonline.net> wrote:
____________________________________________________________________________________
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OMG, that is soooo amazing. Proof positive that you
can make anything with
the proper tools. Mesmerizing.
On 1/8/08 1:53 PM, "jpero at sympatico.ca"
<jpero at sympatico.ca> wrote:
http://blog.makezine.com/archive/2008/01/make_your_own_vaccum_tube.ht
This is in french but the video is priceless! 17
minutes long.
Worth taking your favorite drink and take a
seat.
ml
Cheers, Wizard
Rich
--
Rich Cini
Collector of Classic Computers
Build Master and lead engineer, Altair32 Emulator
http://www.altair32.com
http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp
3:36 p.m.
New subject: youtube movie of making a vacuum triode.
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 16:48:47 -0800
From: chrism3667 at yahoo.com
To: cctalk at classiccmp.org
Subject: Re: youtube movie of making a vacuum triode.
just what is that spot welding contraption? It appears
to work on a principle similar to a *resistance
soldering* unit, that actually uses carbon rods (at
one time you could pull them from batteries, not
anymore though).
Hi
It is a spot welder. It looks just like all the ones I've seen.
It works as you'd expect. Current flows and makes the junction
hot enough to melt. That is how all such things as connecting
filaments to attaching plates to leads has been done since
the begining. It is standard machine shop equipment.
Although, a side subject, I like Jay, consider tube manufacture
relavent to some of my computing equipment.
Dwight
Definitely wild, but just how varied are the devices
that could be built w/those simple, though elegant,
methods? All he did was build what appears to be an AM
receiver.
--- "Richard A. Cini" wrote:
____________________________________________________________________________________
Looking for last minute shopping deals?
Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.
http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping
_________________________________________________________________
Share life as it happens with the new Windows Live.
http://www.windowslive.com/share.html?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_Wave2_sharelife_012008
OMG, that is soooo amazing. Proof positive that
you
can make anything with
the proper tools. Mesmerizing.
On 1/8/08 1:53 PM, "jpero at sympatico.ca"
wrote:
http://blog.makezine.com/archive/2008/01/make_your_own_vaccum_tube.ht
This is in french but the video is priceless! 17
minutes long.
Worth taking your favorite drink and take a
seat.
ml
Cheers, Wizard
Rich
--
Rich Cini
Collector of Classic Computers
Build Master and lead engineer, Altair32 Emulator
http://www.altair32.com
http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp
16 Jan
16 Jan
1:21 p.m.
New subject: youtube movie of making a vacuum triode.
On Friday 11 January 2008 15:36:05 dwight elvey wrote:
Although, a side subject, I like Jay, consider tube
manufacture
relavent to some of my computing equipment.
Dwight
I wonder how much computing equipment you could make from home-made triodes?
Even a simple (say 4-bit) adder would be pretty impressive.
Gordon
1:51 p.m.
New subject: youtube movie of making a vacuum triode.
I have an old Popular Electronics with instructions on making a one bit
vacuum tube memory using a single tube, connected to the parallel port. Of
limited utility of course, but interesting.
On Jan 16, 2008 8:21 AM, Gordon JC Pearce <gordonjcp at gjcp.net> wrote:
On Friday 11 January 2008 15:36:05 dwight elvey
wrote:
Although, a side subject, I like Jay, consider
tube manufacture
relavent to some of my computing equipment.
Dwight
I wonder how much computing equipment you could make from home-made
triodes?
Even a simple (say 4-bit) adder would be pretty impressive.
Gordon
17 Jan
17 Jan
12:51 a.m.
New subject: youtube movie of making a vacuum triode.
On Wednesday 16 January 2008 08:21, Gordon JC Pearce wrote:
On Friday 11 January 2008 15:36:05 dwight elvey
wrote:
In power as well.
It'd be darn-near EMP-proof, though. :-)
--
Member of the toughest, meanest, deadliest, most unrelenting -- and
ablest -- form of life in this section of space, ?a critter that can
be killed but can't be tamed. ?--Robert A. Heinlein, "The Puppet Masters"
-
Information is more dangerous than cannon to a society ruled by lies. --James
M Dakin
Although, a side subject, I like Jay, consider
tube manufacture
relavent to some of my computing equipment.
Dwight
I wonder how much computing equipment you could make from home-made
triodes?
Even a simple (say 4-bit) adder would be pretty impressive. 
5:55 a.m.
New subject: Datasheet for Sharp LR35902 CPU
Would anyone know where I can get my hands on a copy of the Sharp LR35902
CPU datasheet? It's the processor used in GameBoy consoles. A PDF version
would be great.
TIA.
Douglas Wood
6194
days inactive
6203
days old
14 comments
9 participants
participants (9)
-
ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk -
chrism3667＠yahoo.com -
dbwood＠kc.rr.com -
dkelvey＠hotmail.com -
gordonjcp＠gjcp.net -
jbmcb1＠gmail.com -
jpero＠sympatico.ca -
rcini＠optonline.net -
rtellason＠verizon.net