14 Apr
2002
14 Apr
'02
11:16 a.m.
From: Ben Franchuk <bfranchuk(a)jetnet.ab.ca>
I've done this with other similar packaged devices and it flies.
> If you buy a moderately cheap CPLD, e.g. the
XILINX 95108, in a
PLCC84, it
> costs about $20-30 U.S. at DigiKey. Combine that
with a socket, ($4
tops) and
> a few wirewrap socket pins, ($.10 each) that's
another $8.40. Now
find a
cheap wirewrap
board to which you can solder ... and then use the free
software and build the ~$5 ISP adapter.
Has anybody done that? I have a nice FPGA prototype kit, (altera) but I am
having problems
getting A PROM for it. I may go to using smaller chips like the XC-9572
(72 macro cells) ? $12 canadian. They don't make wire wrap PLCC sockets
What prom are you looking for?
I'm still playing with some 2064s and 3030s and 3050s, yes they are old
but
the tools were free, the parts cheap and easy to load up with a 2816/64.
Allison
14 Apr
14 Apr
12:05 p.m.
ajp166 wrote:
I've done this with other similar packaged devices
and it flies.
Got any more details?
What prom are you looking for?
I'm still playing with some 2064s and 3030s and 3050s, yes they are old
but
the tools were free, the parts cheap and easy to load up with a 2816/64.
Allison
I am useing Altera. Altera EPC1141LC20,EPC1LC20 or ATMEL
AT17C512A,AT17C010A.
--
Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu *
www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html
8:32 p.m.
Won't these parts work with ordinary EPROMS? That's what we used back when I
was routinely using XILINX parts. It's possible to build a PAL (though the
equations may no longer be on their website) that takes your clock and the
data from a parallel EPROM and makes it into a serial stream compatible with
the XILINX parts. I can't imagine that it's impossible to do that with Altera
and Atmel parts as well.
It's likely that the evaluation boards won't like parallel EPROMs, since the
mfg's want to promote their serieal EEPROMs, but you have tools, right?
Dick
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ben Franchuk" <bfranchuk(a)jetnet.ab.ca>
To: <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org>
Sent: Sunday, April 14, 2002 11:05 AM
Subject: Re: TTL computing
ajp166 wrote:
I've done this with other similar packaged
devices and it flies.
Got any more details?
What prom are you looking for?
I'm still playing with some 2064s and 3030s and 3050s, yes they are old
but
the tools were free, the parts cheap and easy to load up with a 2816/64.
Allison
I am using Altera. Altera EPC1141LC20,EPC1LC20 or ATMEL
AT17C512A,AT17C010A.
--
Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu *
www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html
15 Apr
15 Apr
6:56 p.m.
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9:37 p.m.
There's a pin on those old-timers that enables the EPROM during download, then
disables the EPROM when the download is complete, so you then recover the use
of the pins. If you had a problem with the EPROM connections, as I said, the
XILINX folks provided an app-note that illustrated a circuit which took the
data from the EPROM and serialized it, thereby minimizing the connections to
the FPGA. It wasn't necessary, except on the smaller devices, since most of
their pins would be used in the EPROM hookup.
With the smaller devices, it wasn't unusual to share an EPROM between a local
microcontroller and the FPGA, and have the microcontroller feed the FPGA, as
you say, pretending to be one of the serial EEPROMs.
Dick
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tony Duell" <ard(a)p850ug1.demon.co.uk>
To: <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org>
Sent: Monday, April 15, 2002 5:56 PM
Subject: Re: TTL computing
>
> Won't these parts work with ordinary EPROMS? That's what we used back
when I
> was routinely using XILINX parts. It's
possible to build a PAL (though
the
For the Xilinx RAM-based FPGAs (3000 and 4000 series) that I used some 5
years ago, the actual method of getting the configuration data into the
device was documented in the data sheet. The meaning of that data wasn't,
of course (meaning you had to use their design tools :-(), but you could
load the device from any logic circuit you wanted.
IIRC, at least with the 3000 series you could connect up a normal
parallel EPROM (like a 27256 or something). It took a fair number of I/O
pins to do this (which is a good reason for not doing it!), but it was
possible. AFAIK you didn't need any other parts, just the FPGA and the
EPROM.
Or you could use a microcontroller to read out a normal EPROM (or E2PROM,
or...) and turn it into the right type of serial bitstream. And pretend
to be one of the special serial PROMs. Again, the timing for the
bitstream was documented in the datasheet, even if the meaning of the
bits wasn't.
-tony
14 Apr
14 Apr
8:27 p.m.
Which tools are you referring to, Allison?
I've found that the tools I once used with the old (pre-1990) 2064's, don't
work with the 3000-series, and, though I have some 3000-series parts (which,
back when I bought them, cost about $200 each) I've not figured out a way to
program them using the old XACT or the more recent "Foundation" software.
They clearly are no longer supported with current software.
Dick
----- Original Message -----
From: "ajp166" <ajp166(a)bellatlantic.net>
To: <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org>
Sent: Sunday, April 14, 2002 10:16 AM
Subject: Re: TTL computing
From: Ben Franchuk <bfranchuk(a)jetnet.ab.ca>
I've done this with other similar packaged devices and it flies.
> If you buy a moderately cheap CPLD, e.g. the
XILINX 95108, in a
PLCC84, it
> costs about $20-30 U.S. at DigiKey. Combine
that with a socket, ($4
tops) and
> a few wirewrap socket pins, ($.10 each)
that's another $8.40. Now
find a
cheap
wirewrap board to which you can solder ... and then use the free
software and build the ~$5 ISP adapter.
Has anybody done that? I have a nice FPGA prototype kit, (altera) but I
am having problems
getting A PROM for it. I may go to using smaller chips like the XC-9572
(72 macro cells) ? $12 canadian. They don't make wire wrap PLCC sockets
What prom are you looking for?
I'm still playing with some 2064s and 3030s and 3050s, yes they are old
but
the tools were free, the parts cheap and easy to load up with a 2816/64.
Allison
8307
days inactive
8308
days old
5 comments
4 participants
participants (4)
-
ajp166＠bellatlantic.net -
ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk -
bfranchuk＠jetnet.ab.ca -
edick＠idcomm.com