27 Nov
2015
27 Nov
'15
11:38 a.m.
This self-satirizing flow diagram reflecting my experiences testing
computers in my collection may (or may not) amuse some on this forum. I'm
sure at least some can relate to the scenarios though...
http://www.classic-computers.org.nz/blog/2015-11-28-computer-collectors-tes…
Terry (Tez)
27 Nov
27 Nov
12:57 p.m.
On Nov 27, 2015, at 2:38 PM, Terry Stewart <terry at webweavers.co.nz> wrote:
This self-satirizing flow diagram reflecting my experiences testing
computers in my collection may (or may not) amuse some on this forum. I'm
sure at least some can relate to the scenarios though...
http://www.classic-computers.org.nz/blog/2015-11-28-computer-collectors-tes…
Terry (Tez)
I?m pretty sure I?ve taken all of these paths at least once!
2:56 p.m.
-----Original Message-----
From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Peter
Cetinski
Sent: 27 November 2015 20:57
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: Re: A stored collection piece is a Schrodinger's cat
On Nov 27, 2015, at 2:38 PM, Terry Stewart <terry at webweavers.co.nz> wrote:
I see a big problem with this flowchart, the path on the far right does not exist, please
delete it and then the flowchart will be believable.
Regards
Rob
This self-satirizing flow diagram reflecting my experiences testing
computers in my collection may (or may not) amuse some on this forum.
I'm sure at least some can relate to the scenarios though...
http://www.classic-computers.org.nz/blog/2015-11-28-computer-collector
s-testing-flowchart.htm
Terry (Tez)
I?m pretty sure I?ve taken all of these paths at least once!= 
3:04 p.m.
That's a great flow diagram Tez - however, I do think there are not nearly
enough arrows pointing upwards ?
On 27 November 2015 at 22:56, Robert Jarratt <robert.jarratt at ntlworld.com>
wrote:
I see a big problem with this flowchart, the path on the far right does
not exist, please delete it and then the flowchart will be believable.
Regards
Rob
-----Original Message-----
From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Peter
Cetinski
Sent: 27 November 2015 20:57
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: Re: A stored collection piece is a Schrodinger's cat
On Nov 27, 2015, at 2:38 PM, Terry Stewart <terry at webweavers.co.nz>
wrote:
This self-satirizing flow diagram reflecting my experiences testing
computers in my collection may (or may not) amuse some on this forum.
I'm sure at least some can relate to the scenarios though...
http://www.classic-computers.org.nz/blog/2015-11-28-computer-collector
s-testing-flowchart.htm
Terry (Tez)
I?m pretty sure I?ve taken all of these paths at least once!= 
28 Nov
28 Nov
2:58 a.m.
On 27/11/2015 19:38, "Terry Stewart" <terry at webweavers.co.nz> wrote:
This self-satirizing flow diagram reflecting my
experiences testing
computers in my collection may (or may not) amuse some on this forum. I'm
sure at least some can relate to the scenarios though...
http://www.classic-computers.org.nz/blog/2015-11-28-computer-collectors-tes…
g-flowchart.htm
That's what I've been doing for the last 2 months, all centred around fixing
a PET4032. What started out as a 'well this hasn't worked since I got it in
2000, let's have a go' has turned into my living room and kitchen covered in
electronic bits as I find things I'd forgotten about while looking for
widget X or doofer Y and sources for missing/broken component Z. Add one
tick for finding a Mac Plus with leaky caps and a soon-to-explode mains
filter cap.
Then I discovered I could use a ZX Spectrum board as a 4116 RAM tester with
suitable mods for dual-boot ROMs etc so I've spent 2 weeks finding every
Spectrum I have and fixing/cleaning up the ones that have bit-rotted away
while discovering an awful lot I didn't know about these comparatively
simple playthings.
Today it's all going to come together and hopefully the outcome will be a
fully working PET4032 and an extra diagnostic tool to add to the collection.
Of course we all know something ELSE unexpected will happen.
--
Adrian/Witchy
Binary Dinosaurs creator/curator
Www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the UK's biggest private home computer
collection?
12:05 p.m.
I see a big problem with this flowchart, the path on
the far right does
not exist, please delete it and then the flowchart will be
believable.
..
I do think there are not nearly enough arrows pointing
upwards
LOL Rob, Mark.
Today it's all going to come together and hopefully
the outcome will be a
fully working PET4032 and an extra diagnostic tool to add to the
collection.
Of course we all know something ELSE unexpected will
happen.
Yes, I love the case design of the PET. It looks just so retro and '80s
futuristic if you get my meaning...
I designed that tounge-in-cheek flowchart as a kind of catharsis having
just spent the last three weeks, firstly fixing my Apple II+ which was a
non-starter on checking (a faulty F8 ROM in that case) then followed by the
next unit I tested, whose 74LS500 in the video circuit failed after about 5
mins. I'm almost afraid to turn on any more...but then...Schrodinger's cat
and all that. I need to know!
Terry (Tez)
1:09 p.m.
-----Original Message-----
From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Terry
Stewart
Sent: 28 November 2015 20:05
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: Re: A stored collection piece is a Schrodinger's cat
I agree with Mark, needs more upwards arrows, more cycles (some without an exit at the
bottom). :-)
I see a big problem with this flowchart, the path
on the far right does
not exist, please delete it and then the flowchart will be
believable.
..
I do think there are not nearly enough arrows
pointing upwards
LOL Rob, Mark. Today it's all going to come together and
hopefully the outcome will be
a fully working PET4032 and an extra diagnostic tool to add to the
collection.
Of course we all know something ELSE unexpected
will happen.
Yes, I love the case design of the PET. It looks just so retro and '80s futuristic
if
you get my meaning...
I designed that tounge-in-cheek flowchart as a kind of catharsis having just
spent the last three weeks, firstly fixing my Apple II+ which was a non-starter
on checking (a faulty F8 ROM in that case) then followed by the next unit I
tested, whose 74LS500 in the video circuit failed after about 5 mins. I'm almost
afraid to turn on any more...but then...Schrodinger's cat
and all that. I need to know!
Terry (Tez) 
2:24 p.m.
Hi
I had the exact same fault on my VAX.
I took one look at the PSU and ordered up another one pronto.
Trouble shoot in that small space no thank you.
It works just fine. One day a VAX PSU guru will tell us how to fix it.
Rod Smallwood
On 28/11/15 21:09, Robert Jarratt wrote:
I had my own episode last week when I turned on my VAX 4000-500 after
a few months of not running it. It ran for a few minutes and then powered off. Now it
won't power on for more than a few seconds before cutting out. This is the second PSU
to do this to me (the first actually failed outright) and I am wondering if the fault is
with something in the machine itself rather than the PSU. Although, now, even with
different combinations of boards removed (so there is at least some load), the PSU
won't stay on for long, so I don't think it can be one of the boards, but perhaps
something in the machine has caused a fault which has now damaged the PSU. I have another
spare PSU but I am not going to risk it yet until I have had time to investigate.
Regards
Rob
-----Original Message-----
From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Terry
Stewart
Sent: 28 November 2015 20:05
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: Re: A stored collection piece is a Schrodinger's cat
I agree with Mark, needs more upwards
arrows, more cycles (some without an exit at the bottom). :-)
I see a big problem with this flowchart, the path
on the far right does
not exist, please delete it and then the flowchart will be
believable.
..
I do think there are not nearly enough arrows
pointing upwards
LOL Rob, Mark. Today
it's all going to come together and hopefully the outcome will be
a fully working PET4032 and an extra diagnostic tool to add to the
collection.
Of course we all know something ELSE unexpected
will happen.
Yes, I love the case design of the PET. It looks just so retro and
'80s futuristic if
you get my meaning...
I designed that tounge-in-cheek flowchart as a kind of catharsis having just
spent the last three weeks, firstly fixing my Apple II+ which was a non-starter
on checking (a faulty F8 ROM in that case) then followed by the next unit I
tested, whose 74LS500 in the video circuit failed after about 5 mins. I'm almost
afraid to turn on any more...but then...Schrodinger's cat
and all that. I need to know!
Terry (Tez) 
3:03 p.m.
New subject: Future technicians will know how to fix it - Re: A stored collection piece is a Schrodinger's cat
On 2015-11-28 5:24 PM, rod wrote:
Hi
I had the exact same fault on my VAX.
I took one look at the PSU and ordered up another one pronto.
Trouble shoot in that small space no thank you.
It works just fine. One day a VAX PSU guru will tell us how to fix it.
Indeed, one day we will have the technology! Cryofreeze it until then.
--T
Rod Smallwood
On 28/11/15 21:09, Robert Jarratt wrote:
I had my own episode last week when I turned on my VAX 4000-500 after
a few months of not running it. It ran for a few minutes and then
powered off. Now it won't power on for more than a few seconds before
cutting out. This is the second PSU to do this to me (the first
actually failed outright) and I am wondering if the fault is with
something in the machine itself rather than the PSU. Although, now,
even with different combinations of boards removed (so there is at
least some load), the PSU won't stay on for long, so I don't think it
can be one of the boards, but perhaps something in the machine has
caused a fault which has now damaged the PSU. I have another spare PSU
but I am not going to risk it yet until I have had time to investigate.
Regards
Rob
-----Original Message-----
From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Terry
Stewart
Sent: 28 November 2015 20:05
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: Re: A stored collection piece is a Schrodinger's cat
I agree with Mark, needs more upwards
arrows, more cycles (some
without an exit at the bottom). :-)
I see a big problem with this flowchart, the path
on the far right does
not exist, please delete it and then the flowchart will be
believable.
..
I do think there are not nearly enough arrows
pointing upwards
LOL Rob, Mark. Today
it's all going to come together and hopefully the outcome will be
a fully working PET4032 and an extra diagnostic tool to add to the
collection.
Of course we all know something ELSE unexpected
will happen.
Yes, I love the case design of the PET. It looks just so retro and
'80s futuristic if
you get my meaning...
I designed that tounge-in-cheek flowchart as a kind of catharsis
having just
spent the last three weeks, firstly fixing my Apple II+ which was a
non-starter
on checking (a faulty F8 ROM in that case) then followed by the next
unit I
tested, whose 74LS500 in the video circuit failed after about 5
mins. I'm almost
afraid to turn on any more...but then...Schrodinger's cat
and all that. I need to know!
Terry (Tez)
3:13 p.m.
-----Original Message-----
From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of rod
Sent: 28 November 2015 22:25
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: Re: A stored collection piece is a Schrodinger's cat
Hi
I had the exact same fault on my VAX.
I took one look at the PSU and ordered up another one pronto.
Trouble shoot in that small space no thank you.
It works just fine. One day a VAX PSU guru will tell us how to fix it.
Rod Smallwood
It *is* a fiendishly complex looking thing. The failure mode this time is slightly
different to last time though, I intend to see what happens if I give it a completely
dummy load, to see if it really is anything to do with the machine or not, there could be
a short somewhere that is causing the PSU to shutdown.
Regards
Rob
29 Nov
29 Nov
11:08 a.m.
When I joined DEC our field service guys would go out armed with a 745
Tektronix scope (wonderful piece of kit), tools, spare TTL, soldering
iron and so on. If you look at the boards from those days you could get
the components out and change them.
Flip - Chip Modules I love 'em.
At that time DEC only hired engineers and then we got trained in sales.
So you could normally hold your own with the field service guys. On day
I took in a board I had wired up myself and asked if I could use the
bench where they did board repairs. Usual comment 'OK which customer
are you doing a favour for this time'
So I owend up said I wired it. The answer came back oh if its a
personal job it gets top prioriy.
You can use what ever equipment you want and take whatever components
you need.
I often borrowed a scope ove the week end.
I gathered that a number of DEC products were the result of engineers
having an idea and putting it together at home from scrounged parts.
Rod
On 28/11/2015 23:13, Robert Jarratt wrote:
-----Original Message-----
From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-bounces at classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of rod
Sent: 28 November 2015 22:25
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: Re: A stored collection piece is a Schrodinger's cat
Hi
I had the exact same fault on my VAX.
I took one look at the PSU and ordered up another one pronto.
Trouble shoot in that small space no thank you.
It works just fine. One day a VAX PSU guru will tell us how to fix it.
Rod Smallwood
It *is* a fiendishly complex looking thing. The failure mode this time is slightly
different to last time though, I intend to see what happens if I give it a completely
dummy load, to see if it really is anything to do with the machine or not, there could be
a short somewhere that is causing the PSU to shutdown.
Regards
Rob
11:21 a.m.
So I owend up said I wired it. The answer came back oh if its a
personal job it gets top prioriy.
You can use what ever equipment you want and take whatever components
you need.
I often borrowed a scope ove the week end.
I know a chap who runs a small electronics company. He actively encourages
his employee(s) to take sensible quatities of small components (resistors,
capacitors, 2N3904s, common ICs, etc) for private jobs. His arguement is that
if they are doing electronics they must be learning something (or at least
keeping their hand in) and might have ideas or solve problems that will help
the company.
But then he's an engineer not an accountant...
-tony
30 Nov
30 Nov
8:14 a.m.
On 28 November 2015 at 11:58, Adrian Graham
<witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk> wrote:
That's what I've been doing for the last 2
months, all centred around fixing
a PET4032.
Is Sir aware of Tynemouth Software?
http://blog.tynemouthsoftware.co.uk/2015/09/commodore-pet-8032-repair-overc…
http://blog.tynemouthsoftware.co.uk/2015/05/commodore-pet-romram-replacemen…
--
Liam Proven ? Profile: http://lproven.livejournal.com/profile
Email: lproven at cix.co.uk ? GMail/G+/Twitter/Flickr/Facebook: lproven
MSN: lproven at hotmail.com ? Skype/AIM/Yahoo/LinkedIn: liamproven
Cell/Mobiles: +44 7939-087884 (UK) ? +420 702 829 053 (?R)
8:35 a.m.
Wonderful fun...Note you need an arrow to the mental institution someplace,
especially if you are trying to load programs from Teletype.
--
Bill
9:43 a.m.
On 30/11/2015 16:14, "Liam Proven" <lproven at gmail.com> wrote:
On 28 November 2015 at 11:58, Adrian Graham
<witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk> wrote:
All of this fixing I'm currently doing is all Dave's fault, so yes :)
--
Adrian/Witchy
Binary Dinosaurs creator/curator
Www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the UK's biggest private home computer
collection?
That's what I've been doing for the last
2 months, all centred around fixing
a PET4032.
Is Sir aware of Tynemouth Software?
2:30 p.m.
On 30 November 2015 at 18:43, Adrian Graham
<witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk> wrote:
All of this fixing I'm currently doing is all
Dave's fault, so yes :)
[Actual LOL]
--
Liam Proven ? Profile: http://lproven.livejournal.com/profile
Email: lproven at cix.co.uk ? GMail/G+/Twitter/Flickr/Facebook: lproven
MSN: lproven at hotmail.com ? Skype/AIM/Yahoo/LinkedIn: liamproven
Cell/Mobiles: +44 7939-087884 (UK) ? +420 702 829 053 (?R)
4:12 p.m.
On 30/11/2015 22:30, "Liam Proven" <lproven at gmail.com> wrote:
On 30 November 2015 at 18:43, Adrian Graham
<witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk> wrote:
When I say 'his fault' I mean his blog has inspired me to get down and dirty
with all the dead PETs I appear to have accumulated over the years. The
ROM/RAM replacement board he sells is an excellent 40 pin toolkit to help
tracing faults in the vast majority of PETs so with the help of Dave and the
good folk here I've got life back into my most dead 4032.
It's also meant I've read a lot of datasheets to understand various chip
behaviours and now I realise why the teachers at school in the late 70s
wouldn't let me take electronics back then since I wasn't too hot at
maths...
--
Adrian/Witchy
Binary Dinosaurs creator/curator
Www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the UK's biggest private home computer
collection?
All of this fixing I'm currently doing is all
Dave's fault, so yes :)
[Actual LOL]
1 Dec
1 Dec
6:29 a.m.
On 1 December 2015 at 01:12, Adrian Graham <witchy at binarydinosaurs.co.uk> wrote:
The
ROM/RAM replacement board he sells is an excellent 40 pin toolkit to help
tracing faults in the vast majority of PETs so with the help of Dave and the
good folk here I've got life back into my most dead 4032.
He's a smart and very helpful chap.
He built a Raspberry Pi 2 into my old LMT 68FX2 ZX Spectrum
replacement keyboard. The snag is, a Spectrum keyboard layout is
really very little use with anything else (e.g. Linux or RISC OS.)
Shame, as it has a good action and feel -- individual sprung keys.
--
Liam Proven ? Profile: http://lproven.livejournal.com/profile
Email: lproven at cix.co.uk ? GMail/G+/Twitter/Flickr/Facebook: lproven
MSN: lproven at hotmail.com ? Skype/AIM/Yahoo/LinkedIn: liamproven
Cell/Mobiles: +44 7939-087884 (UK) ? +420 702 829 053 (?R)
3075
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17 comments
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participants (10)
-
ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk -
billdegnan＠gmail.com -
lproven＠gmail.com -
mark＠wickensonline.co.uk -
pete＠pski.net -
robert.jarratt＠ntlworld.com -
rodsmallwood52＠btinternet.com -
terry＠webweavers.co.nz -
toby＠telegraphics.com.au -
witchy＠binarydinosaurs.co.uk