Oops! sorry for the spam (again) QihZ014QQc ategoryZ11209QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem Of course, they've pulled all disks. regards, Dan

Hello everyone, I've been hoping to get an Apple Lisa for years now. Recently I had an Apple Lisa 1 and an Apple Lisa 2 donated to me. The Lisa 1 needs some restoration work but I think it has a good chance of booting again. The kind gentleman also donated a few Profile drives for the Lisas along with documentation, still shrink-wrapped. I've taken the Lisa 1 apart to examine the damage from the battery acid. Here are pictures (tons of them) of the Lisa 1: http://entertainment.webshots.com/album/563938145wklDTp I'm open to suggestions on how to revive the Lisa 1. Regards, david. ------ David W. Erhart david at daviderhart.com daviderhart at oldzonian.com http://www.sageandstride.org

John Honniball wrote: There's a lot of corrosion there you have to clean first before you ever turn this on. The KOH electrolyte which leaks out is akaline--and it's easier to clean at this stage. You can to brush it off with a white vinegar(acidic) to neutralize the pH balance, then brush it all off with isopropyl alcohol to remove any other residue and blow dry it. *But*, this has gone way past the leakage stage, the bluish-green corrosion indicates that it's already oxidizing--on the copper traces, components, and even solder. This makes it very tough to clean with just a tooth brush, as the corrosion actually creeps under the green mask., and under the chips where there's plenty of traces. And it becomes very hard to resolder anything. Usually the only method is to: 1. Desolder all the components in that area --remove every bit of corrosion with mini wire brush, 320grit sandpaper, and/or a dremel wire wheel). --if any corrosion remains, it will just grow again and spread. 2. Flux all the feedthrough holes -these will be very stubborn --you'll have to flux them several times to make the solder adhere properly to avoid further cold solder connections--and then desolder them again. 3. Inspect all the component leads for tension before soldering them back on --bend them a little-- as the corrosion creates microscopic cracks. --since you have the chips out, use IC sockets in there place. This may sound like hard work but it's the only recourse and it pays off. Don't expect the circuit board to look as pretty as before--you can always buy green mask refills--it's recommended. Your computer will be happy to work afterwards. =Dan -- [ Pittsburgh 250th --- http://www2.applegate.org/~ragooman/ ]

Tinned wire. I'm sorry I don't have photos online - will look for that tonight - but the routine is: - clean everything with (white!) vinegar - Clean the vinegar with isoprophil alchool - Clean the mess with scratch pad or dremel with wire disc - Reconnect the traces with tinned wire Always works? :oD

Vinegar! Vinegar! Vinegar! The common household type! It cleans the mess and neutralize the alkali! Wash in isopropyl alchool after cleaning :o)

On Mon, 30 Jun 2008, Jules Richardson wrote: But you don't use that for your salads, do you? :-) Normal vinegar is usually some kind of wine vinegar, with or without herbs, or balsamico. I wouldn't use that to clean a PCB. Malt vinegar is (almost) completely unknown in Germany and France, I think. I use vinegar essence (25% vinegar) from Surig in such cases. I used that for my Amiga 3000 which had the same symptoms (NiCD "leaked", corroded traces etc.) some time ago. Christian

That's what I sue too. I am told it's used in homebrewing (beer, etc), but a solution of it is great for cleaning up NiCd corrosion. Incidentally, I found some acetic acid (fairly concentrated too), in the 'Kosher' section of the local supermarket. I have no idea what the intended application of it is, but it's quite useful for cleaning up NiCd corrosion too. As a stop bath? -tony

Yes, I am well aware of that :-) Well, it's certainly not pure acetic acid, since it's a solution in water :-). But yes, there's nothing else added. Why you'd use that in Kosher food is something I don't know. But of course it has other applications for the likes of us :-) Indeed. This is particularly important with sulphuric acid, which reacts quite violently with water. Adding water to concentracted sulphuric acid is not something to try! I don't think you meant 'preferably' here. I certianly would prefer it if the acid did not end up in my face. But murphey's law says it will :-( Right, I'll give that a go. All it needs to do, of course, is neutralise (or slightly acidify) the alkali in the developer to stop the latter from working. I discovered many years ago that something sold for photographic use was always a lot mroe expensive than the same thing sold for other purposes :-). It's also got a lot of sugar and other gunk in it, which I'd rather not have all over my PCBs. -tony

On Tue, Jul 1, 2008 at 1:27 AM, Alexander Schreiber <als at thangorodrim.de> wrote: Sugar, properly treated, can form a hard insulating coating. I'm sure I once saw MyGuyver fix arcing high tension lines with nothing more than a creme brule and a soda straw.

On Jun 29, 2008, at 6:35 PM, Tony Duell wrote: Vinegar is acetic acid (4% to 18%, typically), plus other flavorings. My guess is that it's intended for pickling, as white vinegar typically has some salt in it. If you wanted to carefully measure the salt content of your pickle, you wouldn't want to have to try to keep track of any "extra" salt contained in your vinegar. Same principle with unsalted butter used for baking. ok bear

Sridhar Ayengar wrote: I thought the red wine stuff was for the German PCB's and rice wine for the Chinese imports. :)

DAvid It is a amazing .. I as curator of computer museum in Brazil, never saw a Apple Lisa1.. Believe it or not. I hope you do it. preserve the history. Keep that historical computer alive.. Jose carlos Valle htt://computermuseumbrazil.blogspot.com PS: Someone knows How make a project to raise found to my Museum in USA? Thanks 2008/6/29 David W. Erhart <daviderhart at oldzonian.com>: -- Jos? Carlos Valle ? Presidente curador www.museudocomputador.com.br Blog do curador:--HTTP://museudocomputador.blogspot.com Tel office: 011 4666-7545 - celular prov: 8794-6730 Tel skype 3013-3946 - "Tudo posso naquele que fortalece, Felipenses 1:13"