17 Feb
2007
17 Feb
'07
8:04 p.m.
All this talk of Kennedy's reminds me...
any chance of connecting old--recent old to old old--Kennedy 9tracks to
a PC?
Or has anyone taken any surplus 9tracks and run them on PC's?
Or, how about a 9track with GPIB/HPIB interface--any with Amigo or SS80
command set?
(I really would like to see what I've forgotten on my tapes...)
mata
jd
"I shot an arrow into the air, and it stuck."
-- Graffito in Los Angeles
17 Feb
17 Feb
10 p.m.
On Sat, 17 Feb 2007, jd wrote:
Or has anyone taken any surplus 9tracks and run them
on PC's?
Find a HP 7980S or 88780S, or an IBM 9348-012 with a single-ended SCSI
interface. Easy connection, works good under Linux.
Mike Loewen mloewen at cpumagic.scol.pa.us
Old Technology http://ripsaw.cac.psu.edu/~mloewen/Oldtech/
18 Feb
18 Feb
3:15 a.m.
On 2/17/07, jd <onymouse at garlic.com> wrote:
All this talk of Kennedy's reminds me...
any chance of connecting old--recent old to old old--Kennedy 9tracks to
a PC?
Probably, but I don't know specifics on ISA interfaces.
Or has anyone taken any surplus 9tracks and run them
on PC's?
Yes - a DEC TSZ07 SCSI 9-track on a Pentium laptop w/AHA1640 SCSI
card. Dunno who made the transport, but there's a good chance it's a
Kennedy under the hood.
Or, how about a 9track with GPIB/HPIB interface--any
with Amigo or SS80
command set?
I have a GPIB 9-track, but I have no docs and don't know what command
set it uses. Never fired it up. So I know such things were made, but
not what will talk to them.
-ethan
8:22 a.m.
Ethan Dicks wrote:
I don't think you really mean an AHA1640. The AHA1640 is a Microchannel
card.
Peace... Sridhar
Or has anyone
taken any surplus 9tracks and run them on PC's?
Yes - a DEC TSZ07 SCSI 9-track on a Pentium laptop w/AHA1640 SCSI
card. Dunno who made the transport, but there's a good chance it's a
Kennedy under the hood. 
1:18 p.m.
>> Or has anyone taken any surplus 9tracks and
run them on PC's?
You can get Pertec interface cards for both 8 and 16 bit ISA bus, MCA
bus and I bet the PCI bus. I have know several people that ran large
tape drives on PCs using a pertec interface card.
Of course SCSI tape drives will run off a SCSI card in a PC also. The
Kennedy 9610 SCSI front loader was sometimes mated with a PC this way.
We had a person in Oregon in the 1990s that got the Department of
Motor Vehicles registration list on reel tape and converted it to CDs
and sold it on a quarterly basis untill it was made illegal because of
identity theft. He worked it uout using a pertec interface in a IBM
PC. I think he used a Qualstor tape Drive with a pertec interface. At
that time DMV would only sell the data on Reel to Reel tapes.
Paxton
--
Paxton Hoag
Astoria, OR
USA
2:11 p.m.
On 2/18/07, Sridhar Ayengar <ploopster at gmail.com> wrote:
Ethan Dicks wrote:
I don't think you really mean an AHA1640. The AHA1640 is a Microchannel
card.
Typo... that should have been 1460.
-ethan
Or has
anyone taken any surplus 9tracks and run them on PC's?
Yes - a DEC TSZ07 SCSI 9-track on a Pentium laptop w/AHA1640 SCSI
card. Dunno who made the transport, but there's a good chance it's a
Kennedy under the hood. 
10:11 a.m.
On 2/18/07, Ethan Dicks <ethan.dicks at gmail.com> wrote:
On 2/17/07, jd <onymouse at garlic.com> wrote:
I have an HP 7980A 9-track with a GPIB interface. The CS/80 docs on
bitsavers include tape commands. I haven't had a reason yet to try to
write any code to talk to it from a PC.
-Glen
Or, how about a 9track with GPIB/HPIB
interface--any with Amigo or SS80
command set?
I have a GPIB 9-track, but I have no docs and don't know what command
set it uses. Never fired it up. So I know such things were made, but
not what will talk to them.
8:39 p.m.
Glen Slick wrote:
I have an HP 7980A 9-track with a GPIB interface. The CS/80 docs on
bitsavers include tape commands. I haven't had a reason yet to try to
write any code to talk to it from a PC.
A! That's what I should get then.
And there really are CS/80 docs? I was told by Greeley in 1988 that they
had ceased to exist. Not even HP Europe had any left. Not even any
Greeley retirees... All I could get were the SS/80 and Amigo manuals.
A quick look @ bitsavers (again) failed to turn them up. If they're
there, I'll find them...
--
jd
Misfortune, n.:
The kind of fortune that never misses.
-- Ambrose Bierce, "The Devil's Dictionary"
19 Feb
19 Feb
4:54 a.m.
On Sun, 18 Feb 2007, jd wrote:
Glen Slick wrote:
I think you're looking for HP7974A,HP7978A/B,HP7979A,HP7980A,HP7980XC
HP-IB Interface Protocol Specifications from Greeley Storage Division,
I have revision 6.55 from May 8, 1989 as a PDF document.
(Al: Do you need this document?)
Christian
I have an HP 7980A 9-track with a GPIB interface. The CS/80 docs on
bitsavers include tape commands. I haven't had a reason yet to try to
write any code to talk to it from a PC.
A! That's what I should get then.
And there really are CS/80 docs? I was told by Greeley in 1988 that they had
ceased to exist. Not even HP Europe had any left. Not even any Greeley
retirees... All I could get were the SS/80 and Amigo manuals.
A quick look @ bitsavers (again) failed to turn them up. If they're there,
I'll find them...
9:06 a.m.
Christian Corti wrote:
I think you're looking for
HP7974A,HP7978A/B,HP7979A,HP7980A,HP7980XC
HP-IB Interface Protocol Specifications from Greeley Storage Division,
I have revision 6.55 from May 8, 1989 as a PDF document.
(Al: Do you need this document?)
That sounds familiar too...
I have IEEE-488.1 1978(?) and a later rev & part of 488.2 plus the SS/80
manual and an Amigo draft manual.
I think I have the CS/80 manual part number somewhere.
...just have to figure out which terabyte of data it's in...
--
jd
I've not lost my mind.
It's backed up on card, tape, disc and CDROM.
Somewhere--I just can't find it.
25 Feb
25 Feb
2:39 p.m.
jd wrote:
I think I have the CS/80 manual part number somewhere.
...just have to figure out which terabyte of data it's in...
Found it: 5955-3442--what a coincidence; it's on bitsavers!
(Wow... whodathunk.)
Thanks anonymous-whoever-posted-it-person.
My life is now complete. (^_^)
O... Wait. Theres' more stuff to do... Nevermind.
--
jd
There's an old proverb that says just about whatever you want it to.
19 Feb
19 Feb
10:35 a.m.
On 2/19/07, Christian Corti <cc at corti-net.de> wrote:
I think you're looking for HP7974A,HP7978A/B,HP7979A,HP7980A,HP7980XC
HP-IB Interface Protocol Specifications from Greeley Storage Division,
I have revision 6.55 from May 8, 1989 as a PDF document.
(Al: Do you need this document?)
Christian
I don't remember stumbling across that document yet. If it's not on
bitsavers and Al doesn't have a copy I'd appreciate if you could make
a copy available for him to post.
-Glen
12:35 p.m.
I think you're looking for HP7974A,HP7978A/B,HP7979A,HP7980A,HP7980XC
HP-IB Interface Protocol Specifications from Greeley
Storage Division,
I have revision 6.55 from May 8, 1989 as a PDF document.
(Al: Do you need this document?)
Christian
Cool... I'd really like a copy of that doc. Please let me know the URL when
it gets posted.
NOTE: Most of the 9000/800 series boxes, including the small ones (IE F20),
had HPIB ports installed from the factory. If you can find one of those
systems, you'll have an ideal machine not only for accessing your 9-track
but for talking to all kinds of HPIB devices. The last couple of machines I
got off Bay went for < $50 each.
See Ya, SteveRob
18 Feb
18 Feb
9:13 p.m.
NOTE: Most of the 9000/800 series boxes, including the
small ones (IE F20),
Why that series particularly? Many older HP9000s have HPIB ports as
standard too.
I must admit I am partial to the HP9000/200 machines. THey're old enough
to be classics, they use mostly standard chips with the odd ROM and PAL
dotted about, and the mechanicak sontruction, although different in all
the models I own (9816, 9836, 9817) is in all cases beautiful. Very easy
to work on, and with a good range of (DIO) expansion cards including
further HPIB ports, serial ports GPIO (16 bit parallel) ports, etc.
I have an HP9000/340 somewhere, but I took one look at the mainboard,
notices the several square ASICs, and put the case back on. It doesn't
really excite me at all..
-tony
19 Feb
19 Feb
6:29 p.m.
> NOTE: Most of the 9000/800 series boxes,
including the small ones (IE
F20),
Why that series particularly? Many older HP9000s have HPIB ports as
standard too.
Because it seems to be the easiest path to making practical use of the tape
drive. I'm not saying it can't be done your way, it's just a matter of
what's easiest and most practical (for the rest of us). For that matter, I
have read data off HPIB disks and tapes using a HPIB bus analyzer one byte
at a time. Sure it can be done but, it ain't for the faint of heart!
OK... Quick survey. How many people on the list own a HPIB bus analyzer and
have ever made "real" use of it?
So... Assuming you had a HPIB tape drive, 9816, and a PC. Exactly what steps
would be required to transfer data between the PC and 9-track?
I can tell you what's required to accomplish the same task with an
inexpensive, readily available, HPUX box.
1.) FTP the file from PC to HPUX box - Networking is included in the base
HPUX install.
2.) Copy the data to the TAPE drive - HPIB and TAPE drivers are also
included in the base install. Hmm... Question: Can a 9 track tape drive be
set up as a NFS mount? If so, skip step one ;-)
3.) Have a cold beer while Tony solders together a serial cable to link his
9816 to the PC.
4.) Have another beer while Tony writes (both ends) of a kermit-like program
to transfer the data.
NOTE: Surely the easiest way would be to find a 9-Track with SCSI interface
and hook it directly to the PC. Does Windows and/or Linux provide support
for the drives?
I'd gladly trade a spare 7980 HPIB drive for a SCSI one.
See ya, SteveRob
20 Feb
20 Feb
4:21 p.m.
> NOTE: Most of the 9000/800 series boxes,
including the small ones (IE
F20),
Why that series particularly? Many older HP9000s have HPIB ports as
standard too.
Because it seems to be the easiest path to making practical use of the tape
drive. I'm not saying it can't be done your way, it's just a matter of
what's easiest and most practical (for the rest of
us). For that matter, I
have read data off HPIB disks and tapes using a HPIB bus analyzer one byte
at a time. Sure it can be done but, it ain't for the faint of heart!
OK... Quick survey. How many people on the list own a HPIB bus analyzer and
have ever made "real" use of it?
I've used a logic analyser to grab data off an HPIB interface....
Now has anoone else ever used the monitor function of the HPIL
development ROM in an HP41 to grab data off an HPIL loop? I did -- once!
So... Assuming you had a HPIB tape drive, 9816, and a PC. Exactly what steps
would be required to transfer data between the PC and 9-track?
I can tell you what's required to accomplish the same task with an
inexpensive, readily available, HPUX box.
1.) FTP the file from PC to HPUX box - Networking is included in the base
HPUX install.
Assumeing your PC also has TCP/IP netwoking installed, and an ethernet
interface?
2.) Copy the data to the TAPE drive - HPIB and TAPE
drivers are also
included in the base install. Hmm... Question: Can a 9 track tape drive be
set up as a NFS mount? If so, skip step one ;-)
3.) Have a cold beer while Tony solders together a serial cable to link his
9816 to the PC.
Why do you assume I won't have that cable already made up? When I do some
work on the 9816 system, I can assure you that one of the things I'll
make will be a cable from the 50 pin microribbon connector (why on earth
did HP used that for an RS232 port?) to a DB25.
4.) Have another beer while Tony writes (both ends) of
a kermit-like program
to transfer the data.
I have kermit on my PC, I am pretty sure there is a kermit for HP9000/200
machines written in HP-BASIC.
Incidentally, I don't have an HP 9-track drive, so all this is academic
anyhow. As I said at the sart I was asking a genuine question as to your
choice...
-tony
5:35 p.m.
New subject: HPIB [was Re: Kennedy to PC interface...]
OK... Quick
survey. How many people on the list own a HPIB bus
analyzer and have ever made "real" use of it?
I've used a logic
analyser to grab data off an HPIB interface....
9:25 p.m.
New subject: HPIB [was Re: Kennedy to PC interface...]
OK...
Quick survey. How many people on the list own a HPIB bus
analyzer and have ever made "real" use of it?
I've used a logic
analyser to grab data off an HPIB interface.... enough that I can patch on a substitute (if necessary
by stealing a
driver chip from other hardware - for example, I've got a dead HPIB
disk drive which I could raid for chips at need)?
There aren't that many HPIB buffer chips in common use. There's the TI
set (75160/75161/75162), the HP custom one, the various Motorola ones (I
forget the numbers), the Intel one (8293), and that's about it. Oh,
there's the kludge way, using open-collector TTL as drivers (or before
that, discrete transistors), and 7414's as receivers.
-tony
10:15 p.m.
New subject: HPIB [was Re: Kennedy to PC interface...]
Is there
anyone here who knows enough about typical HPIB hardware of
the hp300 era to be able to take a list of chip markings and tell me
which one is probably the relevant driver?
What I would do is trace back from the
data pins of the HPIB
connector (IIRC that's pins 1-4 and 13-16 of the 24 pin Microribbon
connector). On most modern-ish machines (anything since the 9830
:-)), there is only one chip connected to those lines, and that's the
HPIN data buffer. One common type is the 75160, which comes in a 20 pin
DIL package, or
I guess some kind of SMD thing.
This hardware is entirely through-hole DIP. Not a suface-mount part in
sight. Fairly low-density through-hole DIP, too - on a board measuring
17x14 cm, there are only 31 chips: one of 48 pins, three of 20 pins,
fourteen of 16 pins, and and thirteen of 14 pins (well, thirteen 14-pin
DIP packages; I think two are resistor packs rather than logic), plus
two ten-pin SIP resistor packs, a two-switch DIP switch bank, a
five-switch DIP switch bank, a small pot, four discrete resistors,
seventeen discrete capacitors, and a crystal oscillator. Oh, and
card-edge fingers on one side and a back panel with an HPIB connector
on the other.
/~\ The ASCII der Mouse
\ / Ribbon Campaign
X Against HTML mouse at rodents.montreal.qc.ca
/ \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B
21 Feb
21 Feb
7:07 p.m.
New subject: HPIB [was Re: Kennedy to PC interface...]
Is there
anyone here who knows enough about typical HPIB hardware of
the hp300 era to be able to take a list of chip markings and tell me
which one is probably the relevant driver?
What I would do is trace back from the
data pins of the HPIB
connector (IIRC that's pins 1-4 and 13-16 of the 24 pin Microribbon
connector). On most modern-ish machines (anything since the 9830
:-)), there is only one chip connected to those lines, and that's the
HPIN data buffer. One common
type is the 75160, which comes in a 20 pin DIL package, or
I guess some kind of SMD thing.
This hardware is entirely through-hole DIP. Not a suface-mount part in
sight. Fairly low-density through-hole DIP, too - on a board measuring
17x14 cm, there are only 31 chips: one of 48 pins, three of 20 pins, 
12:47 a.m.
New subject: HPIB [was Re: Kennedy to PC interface...]
On 21 Feb 2007 at 2:25, Tony Duell wrote:
There aren't that many HPIB buffer chips in common
use. There's the TI
set (75160/75161/75162), the HP custom one, the various Motorola ones (I
forget the numbers), the Intel one (8293), and that's about it. Oh,
there's the kludge way, using open-collector TTL as drivers (or before
that, discrete transistors), and 7414's as receivers.
If you're communicating to a single device, it's possible to use a PC
paralell port (particularly a bidirectional one) to do the job. A
very long time ago, I needed to draw a color pie chart. I had a copy
of Supercalc and a friend loaned me an HP 5-pen (IIRC) plotter that
he'd picked up at the going-out-of-business sale of the Control Data
retail stores. I had a PC XT at the time. The problem was that the
plotter was GPIB only.
I hacked the parallel port on the IBM MDA to do bidirectional I/O
(easy--just a cut and a jumper). I wrote a TSR that hooked the
parallel port BIOS interrupt and translated the codes intended for a
parallel-interface plotter to GPIB strings. I told Supercalc that it
was driving the parallel-port version of the plotter and bingo--I had
my charts.
You can probably still find the code in one of the SIMTEL archives,
but I can't remember what I called it--something like LPTHPIB, IIRC.
Cheers,
Chuck
7:19 p.m.
New subject: HPIB [was Re: Kennedy to PC interface...]
You can probably still find the code in one of the
SIMTEL archives,
but I can't remember what I called it--something like LPTHPIB, IIRC.
I beleive I have this program somewhere, so if it's otherwise lost let me
know and I'll see what I can dig out.
-tony
6355
days inactive
6362
days old
21 comments
11 participants
participants (11)
-
ard＠p850ug1.demon.co.uk -
cc＠corti-net.de -
cclist＠sydex.com -
ethan.dicks＠gmail.com -
glen.slick＠gmail.com -
innfoclassics＠gmail.com -
mloewen＠cpumagic.scol.pa.us -
mouse＠Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA -
onymouse＠garlic.com -
ploopster＠gmail.com -
steerex＠mindspring.com