In the book Prometheus (sp?) they load a large freighter with Ammonium Nitrade (with the right additives) then stack the deck with tons of Magnesium ingots and then expode the whole thing in the port in the capital of a South American country. The effect is like that of an atomic bomb (anybody remember what happened in Texas City?) PLUS the flaming magnesium fell for miles outside the blast area and created thousands of fires that combine to form a fire storm. (Remember Toyko in early 1945? The fire storms killed more people than both of the atomic bombs.) I'm convinced that our "leaders" always get most of their plans from movies, TV and books. (R. Reagan watched StarWars one too many times!) Joe At 06:06 AM 9/12/02 -0600, you wrote:

Don't forget Reichsmarschall Rumsfeld. g.

There is a similar term used a lot though - "Heartland" that I got so sick of hearing when I lived in Wichita. I have heard references to "Homeland" as well and in Hitler's Germany of the 30's and 40's I believe they used "Motherland" more than "Homeland" -> -----Original Message----- -> From: cctalk-admin(a)classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On -> Behalf Of J.C. Wren -> Sent: Thursday, September 12, 2002 11:24 AM -> To: cctalk(a)classiccmp.org -> Subject: RE: IN BAD TASTE: Putting the blame where it belongs? -> -> -> I always felt that the name "Homeland Security" reeks of -> Nazi Germany. -> "Homeland" is not a term we Americans use much, and it feels wrong. -> "Internal Security" sounds too Russian. They just need to -> retask the IRS. -> They've already got all the spies, informants, SWAT teams and -> databases they -> need to do the job, right? -> -> --John -> -> -----Original Message----- -> From: cctalk-admin(a)classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On -> Behalf Of Gene Buckle -> Sent: Thursday, September 12, 2002 12:20 -> To: cctalk(a)classiccmp.org -> Subject: Re: IN BAD TASTE: Putting the blame where it belongs? -> -> -> > > atomic bomb (anybody remember what happened in Texas City?) PLUS the -> > > flaming magnesium fell for miles outside the blast area and created -> > > thousands of fires that combine to form a fire storm. -> (Remember Toyko in -> > > early 1945? The fire storms killed more people than both of -> the atomic -> > > bombs.) -> > -> > You guys had better be careful discussing all these terror attack -> > scenarios in public. Pretty soon we'll have Asscroft -> breathing down our -> > necks. -> > -> Don't forget Reichsmarschall Rumsfeld. -> -> g. -> -> -> ->

Schultz: "Why do I *always* *lose*?!" Hogan: "It's not you, Schultz, it's the Fatherland!" (from #26 "The Prince from the Phone Company") -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser(a)stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Adore, v.: To venerate expectantly. -- Ambrose Bierce ----------------------

Quothe Joe, from writings of Thu, Sep 12, 2002 at 02:36:11PM +0000: Are you sure? I thought that I heard someone say that "Gestapo" would be a bad name to use, since the Gestapo was considered too gentle, weak and ineffective compared to what the Hillary & Bush administrations want... but remember, they only want to help you! -- Copyright (C) 2002 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd(a)rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty.

----- Original Message ----- From: "Ross Archer" <archer(a)topnow.com> We have always been at war with Oceana. War is Peace I Love Big Brother This message brought to you by the Ministry of Truth.

There's probably a good story here, but one that I personally haven't lived... For those of us who shop at Hamfests, you may have heard that owning and operating certain types of legal radio equipment before WWII apparently became illegal after it started. John A. Freedon and Security are both important to have, but you can't have 100% of both at the same time.

At 11:35 PM 12/09/2002 -0400, you wrote: If I remember correctly, when amateur radio operators were taken off the air during WWII their transmitters had to be rendered "inoperative" so an enemy agent couldn't take them over and use them for his nefarious activities. Cheers Charlie Fox Charles E. Fox Video Production 793 Argyle Rd. Windsor Ontario Canada N8Y 3J8 519-254-4991 foxvideo(a)wincom.net Check out the "Camcorder Kindergarten" at http://chasfoxvideo.com

On Fri, 13 Sep 2002, Alexander Schreiber wrote: Hell, if I ever find something (meaning they did a poor job of hiding it), how do I know it was the 'police' and not some criminal that broke in and installed it? In any matter, it's going to quietly get smashed with a big enough hammer... or maybe just retasked to listening to the exhaust pipe of my car. -- Pat

No no, you find the monitoring van.....or remote recorder setup... Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote:

On Fri, 13 Sep 2002, R. D. Davis wrote: [political opinions removed] R.D.: Have you ever submitted any message to this list that had actual classic computer content? Because I can't remember any. My memory's not great, though, so I just wanted to double check before I get the wrong impression. ok r.

Quothe r. 'bear' stricklin, from writings of Fri, Sep 13, 2002 at 11:34:20PM -0400: Yes. Now for a question for you: are you one of the spooks, and are you attempting to silence dissenting thoughts? Didn't think so, but just wanted to make sure. :-) Now, we return you to your regularly scheduled on-topic programming: In today's eposide of "The Menacing Mr. Mildew Meets Ol' Widder Bitcruncher," The Ol' Widder Bitcruncher has been visited by Mr. Mildew, and she's now beginning to turn pale from the mildew spores that were left behind. Alas, the last time that Lysol Man attempted to rescue her, he damaged some of her plastic parts. In today's eposide, the Widder Bitcruncher is trying to find a way of saving herself from the remaining mildew spores which have reappeared since the cheerfully damp and dreary weather arrived. Can the old Widder Bitcruncher be saved? Tune in next time and find out, but, for now, we give you a hint: someone's attempting to save her by looking into the use of a secret forumula called Disc Doctor---normally used on vinyl LPs, which isn't supposed to harm vinyl records, and may be gentle on various types of plastic. Has anyone tried mixing up a batch of Disc Doctor (the formula used for vinyl LPs) in a spray bottle, and using it inside, or on, mildew-damaged machines? Has anyone tried this on mildewed floppies as well? -- Copyright (C) 2002 R. D. Davis The difference between humans & other animals: All Rights Reserved an unnatural belief that we're above Nature & rdd(a)rddavis.org 410-744-4900 her other creatures, using dogma to justify such http://www.rddavis.org beliefs and to justify much human cruelty.

At 23:35 09/12/2002 -0400, you wrote: Honestly, prolly *less* likely, as the Ooh Ess of Aah has been lightening up on crypto laws, altho Snuffle is still illegal - prolly because it's better than what the No Such Agency has... ;-) Dunno Snuffle? Look up "DJB" & "qmail" -- that should give you more... Bzzzt. Wrong answer. At least for now, it's not illegal to open up what you have (or even what you don't *own*) provided you don't make modifications to it. You can legally own a Colt AR-15 rifle (read: civilian version of the M-16 automatic rifle) and *legally* own the full-auto conversion kit... you are not in violation of any laws until you actually *install* the kit. (Erm... Scheayah, here in the US... those over the Ponds I can't vouch for...) Granted, I don't have a crystal ball... this may not hold to the future... and I'm certainly not saying they're not *actively trying* to amend these laws... (re: DMCA, and it's ilk...) FidoNet & Usenet... here we come! Time to design some "unhackable" crypto that runs on a CoCo! (Or at least a STacy, if you need 16-bit power...) A buddy of mine *still* runs an active Tandy Model 10x/200 BBS! The American people have always prevailed, despite the Gubbermint & it's laws... ;-) Enough OT ramblings borne of foreign & domestic brews... Roger "Merch" Merchberger

The people along the Ohio River in Louisville, Cinncinatti, Evansville, etc have been paranoid of a barge being loaded in a such a manner and docked mear their city since last year - never occurrred to them prior to that. I think last year's tragedy did more than they expected and wanted and they know that fear and paranoia will stay with the masses (for the most part, not everyone) for a long time and give them time to regroup and replan. I'll almost bet that a majority of the people on this list CAN remember when Nagasaki and Hiroshima were nuked, as noted by the demographics of age on the list. My earliest historical memories are watching JFK's burial on TV as a 6 yr old. -> -----Original Message----- -> From: cctalk-admin(a)classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On -> Behalf Of Joe -> Sent: Thursday, September 12, 2002 8:44 AM -> To: cctalk(a)classiccmp.org -> Subject: Re: IN BAD TASTE: Putting the blame where it belongs? -> -> -> In the book Prometheus (sp?) they load a large freighter with -> Ammonium Nitrade (with the right additives) then stack the deck -> with tons of Magnesium ingots and then expode the whole thing in -> the port in the capital of a South American country. The effect -> is like that of an atomic bomb (anybody remember what happened -> in Texas City?) PLUS the flaming magnesium fell for miles -> outside the blast area and created thousands of fires that -> combine to form a fire storm. (Remember Toyko in early 1945? The -> fire storms killed more people than both of the atomic bombs.) -> -> I'm convinced that our "leaders" always get most of their -> plans from movies, TV and books. (R. Reagan watched StarWars one -> too many times!) -> -> Joe -> -> -> At 06:06 AM 9/12/02 -0600, you wrote: -> > -> >One good OT deserves another... In Clive Cussler's latest book, -> >terrorists attempt to sail a supertanker full of propane up to -> >the dock and explode it. In the book Dirk Pitt speculates the -> >WTC towers would not collapse, but the rest of the area would -> >be badly damaged. -> > -> >The printing history: First hardcover edition: August 2001 -> > -> >Regards, -> >Clint -> > -> >On Thu, 12 Sep 2002 Innfogra(a)aol.com wrote: -> > -> >> And here I am contributing to the way way off topic..... I -> understand one of -> >> Tom Clancy's novels deals with the subject, flying large -> airliners into a -> >> building. Written in the mid 1990's. I am trying to find out -> which novel it -> >> is, he is very prolific. -> >> -> >> Paxton -> >> -> >> Who is looking for a novel to take traveling to Fiji and -> wondering where he -> >> will find the internet there? -> >> -> >> Hmm.. When I was last there (1990) the telecom system was run -> on intel -> >> multibus and the airport on a microvax. Does that make this on topic. -> >> -> > -> > -> -> ->

Actually the plane damaged the structure but the redundant supports held it up, the heat of the fire is what killed the redundant supports and they collapsed. It was the combination of the ramming/crash and the fire that did what it did. I don't think the planners of the attack expected the collapse to happen either. -> -----Original Message----- -> From: cctalk-admin(a)classiccmp.org [mailto:cctalk-admin@classiccmp.org]On -> Behalf Of Ben Franchuk -> Sent: Thursday, September 12, 2002 9:42 AM -> To: cctalk(a)classiccmp.org -> Subject: Re: IN BAD TASTE: Putting the blame where it belongs? -> A few years ago I read that a supertanker like that would have the -> power of a small nuke. It is the fire not the explosion that causes -> damage in the cities. Remember that the FIRE not the plane crash -> that damaged the WTC. -> ->