One odd thing about these attitudes we have, is that we're almost all male and the folks who did and understood the work and improved the techniques were almost exclusively female. It's sort of like the boatanchor radio groups where we have men lecturing other men as to how to lace cables or properly wrap a wire around a lug before soldering. The women who actually did the work would laugh at all of us :-). I know they laughed at me and other male techies (anywhere from undergrads to professional machinists to full professors!) who sometimes attempted these sorts of tasks! Tim.