Bryan Pope skrev: Don't the people involved in software development see the senselessness in this? 128 MB RAM for a bloody operating system!? -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. A liberal is someone too poor to be conservative, and too rich to be a communist.

On Thu, 29 Mar 2001, Mike Ford wrote: Does it make sense to pave 1000 acres of earth for no good reason just because it would only cost $25 per acre? Very stupid analogy, bet you get my drift. I don't understand what the hell would be going on in 128MB of RAM. It sickens, saddens, and depresses me. I think I'm gonna go drink myself into a stupor now. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org

Don't give up hope, I'm still working on my Commodore web browser that fits into 31K of RAM (the rest is the hi-res screen, page buffer and swap space) :-) As long as it's Mr Pibb :-P -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser(a)stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Who are you going to believe, me or your own eyes? -- Groucho Marx ---------

Ah, metronidazole, no doubt! Good stuff, makes you almost as sick as the parasites it's supposed to be killing. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser(a)stockholm.ptloma.edu -- This message will self-destruct in five seconds. Good luck, Jim. -- M:I ----

Jim Strickland skrev: What a hog. =? My Amiga crashes a whole lot. I don't think stability is imperative. Regard my lorry analogy. While I'm impressed by BeOS, I've been lacking both the proper hardware (it's too thirsty!), and I'm not impressed by its constant change of platforms. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. Die Malerei ist stumme Poesie, die Poesie blinde Malerei. --- Leonardo da Vinci

Take a look on any price search engine, ie http://www.pricewatch.com/ and you will find plenty of sources of lifetime warranty PC133 256 MB modules for less than $50.

IMHO the only classics that would use more power would be the VAXs etc. C64s, Apple IIs, Atari 2600s would take a lot less power then a PC with 128 MB RAM, PIII-500, hard drives, CD-Writers, 3D graphics card (with its own cooling fan and 64 MB RAM)... Bryan

John Foust skrev: Then they should learn to keep things neatly apart. And what would require 128 megs of RAM? Simulations of a glaxy or two? I want to run the computer I like. Besides, the 128 MB demand is akin to a newer computer suddenly requiring three-pjhase power for no apparent reason. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. I installed 7.6.1 on my Color Classic too. It has 6mb ram now, and no FPU yet. Things really slowed down when I installed the Appearance extention and control panel. But now the GUI is OS8ish! ;) That little creep is so cute, I'll probably leave instructions to have it made my urn. It'll hold my ashes, and still continue to function as a computer ;) iVan

John Foust skrev: I'm not talking about a microcontroller or DOS 3.0 either! Could you keep this at a civil level? I'm talking about a windowing OS, and why would that require 128 MB? But then that's another thing. Apps are not the same as the OS and may be chosen according to requirements. Exactly. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. Fernsehen ist das einzige Schlafmittel, das mit den Augen genommen wird. --- Vittorio de Sica

At 01:20 AM 3/31/01 +0100, Iggy Drougge wrote: OK, not galaxy collision simulation - how about a scanner? If you're not adept, it's easy to mistakenly scan at twice the resolution, eating gobs of RAM. If 128M is indeed the recommendation, it's not just for the OS, it's a recommended amount - and nothing more. It may be there just to sell memory. If we want to talk about something truly controversial, let's hash out that "rinse, lather, repeat" recursion on the shampoo bottles. - John

No no... wasn't it, if this OS min 128MB is required, count on it to work best at 256M or more, that is my experience on this. Snort, Correct, But behind that, M$ hopes they could snare hapless buyers with their crap and amirably succeeded. That's very minimum specs, I find Pentium 100 or 486DX4 w/ 48MB is about right for win95 to run software apps acceptably, best chipset and cache is a must. That was same specs I had on mine for 2 years before I moved up to PII 350 /w 64MB couple yr ago, now retired very recently for duron 800, new GeForce2 MX and win98, this time wasn't OS, it was one of my game demanded that move and prices was right. Btw: that minimum specs for win95 is also not enough for win311, it likes 8 or 16MB, 386DX 25 w/ good cache required or so even better 486, external cache optional. 386sx is a bogus!! Yet it works but bogus would-be 386dx shackled to a updated 286 design chipsets. Very rare 386sx boards has cache that made all the difference but still, that memory bandwidth plus 386sx was designed around slow memory timings, both took serious hits on overall performance. I tried to do this on a 386sx notebook has 2 way 4K cache, 10MB ram running X on linux couple of years ago and 486slc2 50 (cyrix) on win95. Both crawled and would crash n' burn often, everything solved upgrading to real straight and through 32bitness designs like 386dx or 486 and up. This is not only ones, many makers of all kinds including sun, apple turned out few weirdo boxens with too many corners cut. Examples: Apple's 6100 series and few of their models as well. When I throught having ppc motherboard to swap that 610's board with this is ultra cool and on the cheap till I found out having video card is required to get good performance on 6100's. Bah!! Bad news I have couple 610's none other motherboards is designed to fit in those cases other than 6100 or 610 boards. Cheers, Wizard

The only bad points about the 6100 are that it uses the HDI-45 video connector designed for use with their 14" AV monitor, as well as the AAUI connector for the ethernet. A lot of people don't like the fact that you have to find the various adapters for whichever video and ethernet standards you wish to use. Otherwise it's quite flexible. Last year I traded some parts for a G3 upgrade for mine and it has a CD-ROM and 1gig HD internally. If I didn't have the G3 upgrade installed (early Sonnett board not compatible with PDS cards) I could install either NUBUS of PPC-PDS cards into it, including Pentium-based PC compatibility cards. It's a very solid machine though. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757

Oh yes...I forgot about that point. It would've been nice if it had the VRAM upgrade of other PPC machines. The PowerCurve came standard with 1meg VRAM and was upgradable to 4meg. I have a NUBUS video board (Radius PrecisionColor 24x) but have never used it because it won't work with the Sonnet CPU upgrade. The Apple AV PDS card is supposed to but it's not faster than the onboard video, just offers more output options. Yes, 256k was the standard cache DIMM size. 1MB was the maximum that could be used. The cache was optional on the 6100/60. Not sure if it was optional or standard on the 6100/66. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757

Jeff Hellige skrev: That's odd, I found Win95 to be quite usable on the IBM 486/66 at my father's house. I wouldn't really want to surf the web on it, but it was fine for running Paintshop pro, Word and a lot of 8-bit console emulators. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6a. optimus@dec:foo$ make love make: don't know how to make love. Stop

For a while I had a parallel port webcam running of a 386sx20 with 4MB of RAM and it ran Windows 95. While it was slow it did get the job done. The machine has since been upgraded to a 486DX25 . The 386 would manage to grab a frame every 30 seconds, compress it into a JPG and upload it to a webserver. The 486 manages every 10 seconds. Still for a while the 386 was just about being useful. A note to anyone else trying this, use the first release of Windows 95, don't event think about Windows 98. Matthew Buckett Webcam: http://freeside.dcs.hull.ac.uk/webcam.shtml

In all fairness, win95, when equipped with *all* 32 bit, well behaved drivers and then never touched software wise is stable enough to stay up a day or two without problems. Start doing things that touch the registry, and you WILL be reinstalling soon. -- Jim Strickland jim(a)DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- BeOS Powered! -----------------------------------------------------------------------

The catch with using w95 regardless of speed, it that for many cases its the only game in town if you want network services, ie winsocket etc.

I'm not sure about happily. I think 12-16mb is more realistic if you want good response. Also, 16mb is the MINIMUM with networking... I've got a laptop IBM 486/75 which will soon run either WarpConnect or Warp4... but it's limited to 24 mb of memory. WfW 3.11 works pretty well in it with TCP/IP networking enabled, but the newer Warp4 may be a bit slow with the load and less than 32mb... especially if you need to run Netscape Communicator or IE under it. Bill -- bpechter(a)monmouth.com | FreeBSD since 1.0.2, Linux since 0.99.10 Brainbench MVP | Unix Sys Admin since Sys V/BSD 4.2 Unix Sys.Admin. | Windows System Administration: "Magical Misery Tour"

Warp 3 (not Warp Connect) runs fine on 8MB of RAM on the P70. I've never actually tried Warp Connect or Warp 4. I plan on trying to load Connect on it in the next couple of weeks to see how it works. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757

I can confirm that it will boot... I did tech support for this person who had just such a beast. It took about 10 minutes to boot. The poor hard drive just kept grinding away the whole time. And this machine was used to take care of their accounting. Bryan

With the people I work with, who range from photographers, graphics artists and other publishing types, 256MB RAM is more the norm running Photoshop, Pagemaker, Dreamweaver, and such. That's on both Macs and PC's. Adobe makes some nice products, but they certainly aren't lighweight when it comes to resource requirements. When you're talking a full page spread in either Photoshop or Pagemaker, that's quite a large amount of RAM being used. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757

Machines that use 72 pin simms are obsolete. Couple months ago I bought 10 lbs of 72 pin simms, nothing bigger than 8 MB, 99% 4 MB, and those are likely the last I will EVER buy. The low price of new memory vs the still very high price of older memory has really killed my interest in memory upgrades for the old hardware. 64 MB DIMMs for my Starmax are $150 each, and for $300 I can buy 512 MB of PC133 ram, a nice motherboard, and a Tbird cpu that will clock easily over 1 Ghz. Same goes for SCSI drives, except the weird old workstation stuff I pick up cheap. Of course I will continue to use a lot of my old hardware, but the OS etc. has got to live with a memory diet. Fortunately a lot of it is very happy with a 4 mb simm in each slot.