15 Apr
2015
15 Apr
'15
12:32 a.m.
Hey,
I got a directory listing of the FE disk...
.dir 40fe:[*,*,*,*,*]
1,1 1 <555> 8-Sep-95 40FE: [1,1]
1,4 1 <755> 8-Sep-95
3,3 0 <700> 8-Sep-95
1,2 1 <754> 8-Sep-95
3,6 0 <766> 8-Sep-95
3,11 0 <700> 8-Sep-95
3,7 0 <700> 8-Sep-95
1,340 1 <754> 31-Mar-97
Total of 4 blocks in 8 files on 40FE: [1,1]
SAT SYS 109 <555> 8-Sep-95 [1,4]
HOME SYS 19 <555> 8-Sep-95
BADBLK SYS 4 <557> 8-Sep-95
MARSFE SYS 5002 <057> 30-Jul-97
Total of 5134 blocks in 4 files on 40FE: [1,4]
%DRTIDE Error reading 40FE:[1,2]RESTOR.EXE; I/O status = 400014 (Improper
mode)
RESTOR EXE 84 <057> 2-Nov-94 3A(52) [1,2]
%DRTIDE Error reading 40FE:[1,2]FILSAV.EXE; I/O status = 400014 (Improper
mode)
FILSAV EXE 128 <666> 12-Sep-88
%DRTIDE Error reading 40FE:[1,2]MSFILE.EXE; I/O status = 400014 (Improper
mode)
MSFILE EXE 64 <057> 7-Mar-94 12(24)
Total of 276 blocks in 3 files on 40FE: [1,2]
A OUT 506 <057> 29-Jan-96 [1,340]
NCP MCS 217 <057> 13-Jan-95
SX BIN 73 <057> 30-Aug-94
SX MCS 27 <057> 12-Dec-93
FX OLD 51 <057> 21-Oct-94
N1LX 609 501 <057> 2-Mar-94
N1LX REL 20 <057> 1-Mar-94
N1LX ULD 502 <057> 30-Sep-94
%DRTIDE Error reading 40FE:[1,340]BOOT40.EXE; I/O status = 400014
(Improper mode
)
BOOT40 EXE 24 <057> 10-Nov-94 25B(161)
%DRTIDE Error reading 40FE:[1,340]DEBKVB.EXE; I/O status = 400014
(Improper mode
)
DEBKVB EXE 96 <057> 10-Nov-94
CPYFE COM 3 <057> 1-Apr-96
PINI40 CMD 1 <057> 2-Mar-94
%DRTIDE Error reading 40FE:[1,340]DFKAA.EXE; I/O status = 400014 (Improper
mode)
DFKAA EXE 176 <057> 27-Mar-85
%DRTIDE Error reading 40FE:[1,340]DFKAB.EXE; I/O status = 400014 (Improper
mode)
DFKAB EXE 104 <057> 29-Jan-85
%DRTIDE Error reading 40FE:[1,340]DFKAC.EXE; I/O status = 400014 (Improper
mode)
DFKAC EXE 140 <057> 17-Aug-88
%DRTIDE Error reading 40FE:[1,340]DFKAD.EXE; I/O status = 400014 (Improper
mode)
DFKAD EXE 80 <057> 29-Jan-85
%DRTIDE Error reading 40FE:[1,340]DFKBA.EXE; I/O status = 400014 (Improper
mode)
DFKBA EXE 176 <057> 3-Apr-85
%DRTIDE Error reading 40FE:[1,340]DFKBB.EXE; I/O status = 400014 (Improper
mode)
DFKBB EXE 56 <057> 3-Apr-85
%DRTIDE Error reading 40FE:[1,340]DFKCA.EXE; I/O status = 400014 (Improper
mode)
DFKCA EXE 212 <057> 29-Jan-85
%DRTIDE Error reading 40FE:[1,340]DFKCB.EXE; I/O status = 400014 (Improper
mode)
DFKCB EXE 100 <057> 29-Jan-85
%DRTIDE Error reading 40FE:[1,340]DFKCC.EXE; I/O status = 400014 (Improper
mode)
DFKCC EXE 96 <057> 4-Jun-85
%DRTIDE Error reading 40FE:[1,340]DFKDA.EXE; I/O status = 400014 (Improper
mode)
DFKDA EXE 164 <057> 3-Apr-85
%DRTIDE Error reading 40FE:[1,340]DFKEA.EXE; I/O status = 400014 (Improper
mode)
DFKEA EXE 76 <057> 18-Apr-85
%DRTIDE Error reading 40FE:[1,340]DFKEB.EXE; I/O status = 400014 (Improper
mode)
DFKEB EXE 60 <057> 3-Apr-85
%DRTIDE Error reading 40FE:[1,340]DFKEC.EXE; I/O status = 400014 (Improper
mode)
DFKEC EXE 92 <057> 2-May-85
%DRTIDE Error reading 40FE:[1,340]DFKED.EXE; I/O status = 400014 (Improper
mode)
DFKED EXE 100 <057> 3-May-85
%DRTIDE Error reading 40FE:[1,340]DFKFB.EXE; I/O status = 400014 (Improper
mode)
DFKFB EXE 56 <057> 29-Jan-85
ACPT40 CMD 2 <057> 30-Mar-94
PM CMD 1 <057> 24-Mar-93
PMDTE CMD 1 <057> 18-Jun-92
SYSDTE CMD 1 <057> 24-Mar-93
%DRTIDE Error reading 40FE:[1,340]SYSEX.EXE; I/O status = 400014 (Improper
mode)
SYSEX EXE 136 <057> 30-Oct-94
FX BIN 51 <055> 21-Feb-97
Total of 3901 blocks in 33 files on 40FE: [1,340]
Grand total of 9315 blocks in 48 files
Unfortunately...no files are accessible and I get a BUGCHK whenever I boot
TOPS-10 in KLH10...but this is finally some progress!
.type 40fe:[1,340]pm.cmd
?Input device 40FE: file PM.CMD
Status bits 400001
(Device write-locked or 7-9 punch not found on binary card)
.copy pm.cmd=40fe:[1,340]pm.cmd
?Input device 40FE: file PM.CMD
Status bits 400001
(Device write-locked or 7-9 punch not found on binary card)
.copy dskb:[1,2]pm.cmd=40fe:[1,340]pm.cmd
?Input device 40FE: file PM.CMD
Status bits 400001
(Device write-locked or 7-9 punch not found on binary card)
--
Cory Smelosky
http://gewt.net Personal stuff
http://gimme-sympathy.org Projects
15 Apr
15 Apr
6:12 p.m.
From: Cory Smelosky
Sent: Tuesday, April 14, 2015 5:32 PM
I got a directory listing of the FE disk...
.dir 40fe:[*,*,*,*,*]
1,1 1 <555> 8-Sep-95 40FE:
[1,1]
1,4 1 <755> 8-Sep-95
3,3 0 <700> 8-Sep-95
1,2 1 <754> 8-Sep-95
3,6 0 <766> 8-Sep-95
3,11 0 <700> 8-Sep-95
3,7 0 <700> 8-Sep-95
1,340 1 <754> 31-Mar-97
Total of 4 blocks in 8 files on 40FE: [1,1]
[snip snip snip]
Unfortunately...no files are accessible and I get a
BUGCHK whenever I boot
TOPS-10 in KLH10...but this is finally some progress!
.type 40fe:[1,340]pm.cmd
?Input device 40FE: file PM.CMD
Status bits 400001
(Device write-locked or 7-9 punch not found on binary card)
.copy pm.cmd=40fe:[1,340]pm.cmd
?Input device 40FE: file PM.CMD
Status bits 400001
(Device write-locked or 7-9 punch not found on binary card)
.copy dskb:[1,2]pm.cmd=40fe:[1,340]pm.cmd
?Input device 40FE: file PM.CMD
Status bits 400001
(Device write-locked or 7-9 punch not found on binary card)
Cory,
It may be that CI$ defined some bits differently in their monitor. I strongly
suggest that you examine the (emulated?) drive using FILDDT. Start by locating
the HOM block (which might not be where DEC would put it; I vaguely remember a
difference between Stanford and Mike&Stewart vis-a-vis TOPS-20 file systems).
You can that with
$"/HOM /$w
or 505755,,0$w
(equivalent invocations of the word-search function. "$" is altmode = escape,
not dollar)
Use the Tops-10 Monitor Calls Reference Manual vol. 2 from Bitsavers, to see
the layout of a DEC HOM block (in the tables portion of the manual). Vol. 1
has a good discussion of going from [1,1] to a file in a directory, and the
HOM block contains a pointer to [1,1].
What do you mean by "I get a BUGCHK whenever I boot TOPS-10 in KLH10"?
I've
done that any number of times, and never had a BUGCHK. What specifically is
it doing?
If you like, we can move the discussion to the SimH list (to include Tim Litt)
or alt.sys.pdp10 (to include lots of other folks).
Rich
P. S. OBTW, congratulations!!!
Rich Alderson
Vintage Computing Sr. Systems Engineer
Living Computer Museum
2245 1st Avenue S
Seattle, WA 98134
mailto:RichA at LivingComputerMuseum.org
http://www.LivingComputerMuseum.org/
6:31 p.m.
On Wed, 15 Apr 2015, Rich Alderson wrote:
Cory,
It may be that CI$ defined some bits differently in their monitor. I strongly
suggest that you examine the (emulated?) drive using FILDDT. Start by locating
the HOM block (which might not be where DEC would put it; I vaguely remember a
difference between Stanford and Mike&Stewart vis-a-vis TOPS-20 file systems).
You can that with
Could be, will look in a bit.
Could also be an error in http://abuse.mooli.org.uk/compuserve/ (what a
friend used to convert the 584-byte-sector drive to something usable in
KLH10)
I can copy all files in the first 132 blocks (not counting any metadata
blocks) fine. That's HOM.SYS, BATBLK.SYS, and MARSFE.SYS. I'm not the
greatest with the mathematics and whatnot - better at installing the OSes
and getting everything wired together. ;)
$"/HOM /$w
or 505755,,0$w
(equivalent invocations of the word-search function. "$" is altmode = escape,
not dollar)
Thanks.
Use the Tops-10 Monitor Calls Reference Manual vol. 2 from Bitsavers, to see
the layout of a DEC HOM block (in the tables portion of the manual). Vol. 1
has a good discussion of going from [1,1] to a file in a directory, and the
HOM block contains a pointer to [1,1].
Hmmm. [1,1] is the ...what's the term... UFD? that I can access files
from.
What do you mean by "I get a BUGCHK whenever I boot TOPS-10 in KLH10"?
I've
done that any number of times, and never had a BUGCHK. What specifically is
it doing?
I figured out what that was, it's an issue with the file being larger than
an actual rp06 disk image (truncating it, setting it to an rm05,
If you like, we can move the discussion to the SimH list (to include Tim Litt)
or alt.sys.pdp10 (to include lots of other folks).
That would get a bit offtopic for SIMH as I'm using KLH10 for this (I've
only gotten the image to be happy with fmt=dbd9, unsure if SIMH can do the
same conversion but I will try shortly)
No responses on alt.sys.pdp10, perhaps you can wake some people up? ;)
Rich
P. S. OBTW, congratulations!!!
Thanks!
Oh, a heads up: the SC-40s you have can all run the newer supervisor (1.08
instead of 1.01. I found mine passed all diags after I imaged the newer
drive...aside from the SC-40 Exerciser of course, that's still unhappy
with my SCSI bus.)
Rich Alderson
Vintage Computing Sr. Systems Engineer
Living Computer Museum
2245 1st Avenue S
Seattle, WA 98134
mailto:RichA at LivingComputerMuseum.org
http://www.LivingComputerMuseum.org/
--
Cory Smelosky
http://gewt.net Personal stuff
http://gimme-sympathy.org Projects
17 Apr
17 Apr
12:02 a.m.
From: Cory Smelosky
Sent: Wednesday, April 15, 2015 11:31 AM
On Wed, 15 Apr 2015, Rich Alderson wrote:
> Use the Tops-10 Monitor Calls Reference Manual
vol. 2 from Bitsavers, to see
> the layout of a DEC HOM block (in the tables portion of the manual). Vol. 1
> has a good discussion of going from [1,1] to a file in a directory, and the
> HOM block contains a pointer to [1,1].
Hmmm. [1,1] is the ...what's the term... UFD? that
I can access files
from.
MFD (Master File Directory). It's not quite the same internally as a User
File Directory. Also found in the tables, come to think of it.
I figured out what that was, it's an issue with
the file being larger than
an actual rp06 disk image (truncating it, setting it to an rm05,
Umm, isn't an RM05 300MB vs. 200MB for an RP06 (real unformatted capacities)?
> If you like, we can move the discussion to the
SimH list (to include Tim
> Litt) or alt.sys.pdp10 (to include lots of other folks).
That would get a bit offtopic for SIMH as I'm
using KLH10 for this (I've
only gotten the image to be happy with fmt=dbd9, unsure if SIMH can do the
same conversion but I will try shortly)
SimH only knows one disk format, the one that KLH10 calls "dlw8" (little-
endian, 1 word in 8 bytes).
No responses on alt.sys.pdp10, perhaps you can wake
some people up? ;)
I'll rattle the cage.
Oh, a heads up: the SC-40s you have can all run the
newer supervisor (1.08
instead of 1.01. I found mine passed all diags after I imaged the newer
drive...aside from the SC-40 Exerciser of course, that's still unhappy
with my SCSI bus.)
OK, thanks!
Rich
Rich Alderson
Vintage Computing Sr. Systems Engineer
Living Computer Museum
2245 1st Avenue S
Seattle, WA 98134
mailto:RichA at LivingComputerMuseum.org
http://www.LivingComputerMuseum.org/
12:11 a.m.
On Fri, 17 Apr 2015, Rich Alderson wrote:
Thanks.
MFD (Master File Directory). It's not quite the same internally as a User
File Directory. Also found in the tables, come to think of it.
Ahh. Thanks.
I assume you want me to look at FILDDT on the images copied to a TOPS-10
system, correct, or is there a quick shortcut to FILDDT for a device?
Umm, isn't an RM05 300MB vs. 200MB for an RP06 (real unformatted capacities)?
Yes, the disk image was 245M, identifies as an rp06 to the monitor
(discovered through RECOGNIZE in OPR) which explains the BUGHLT. According
to du -sh it seems not much beyond the first 20M or so is anything but
blank.
SimH only knows one disk format, the one that KLH10 calls "dlw8" (little-
endian, 1 word in 8 bytes).
Thanks - that's a useful pointer.
No responses
on alt.sys.pdp10, perhaps you can wake some people up? ;)
I'll rattle the cage.
OK, thanks!
No problem.
Happen to have any idea how to boot one from tape? Copy a DEC bootstrap
to the MSP disk and pray it considers one of the SCSI drives as a
supported drive?
Rich
Rich Alderson
Vintage Computing Sr. Systems Engineer
Living Computer Museum
2245 1st Avenue S
Seattle, WA 98134
mailto:RichA at LivingComputerMuseum.org
http://www.LivingComputerMuseum.org/
--
Cory Smelosky
http://gewt.net Personal stuff
http://gimme-sympathy.org Projects
18 Apr
18 Apr
12:19 a.m.
From: Cory Smelosky
Sent: Thursday, April 16, 2015 5:11 PM
On Fri, 17 Apr 2015, Rich Alderson wrote:
> MFD (Master File Directory). It's not quite
the same internally as a User
> File Directory. Also found in the tables, come to think of it.
I assume you want me to look at FILDDT on the images
copied to a TOPS-10
system, correct, or is there a quick shortcut to FILDDT for a device?
Device-direct I/O is available under FILDDT. Do it from the console login so
that you're properly 1,2. If you run FILDDT and type /H to its prompt, you
will see what the options are. Basically, you want something like RPA0:/U to
start, and remember to multiply every sector number by 200 (octal) to get the
disk address right. The HOM blocks are sectors 1 and 12, so their addresses
are 200 and 2400 respectively.
Happen to have any idea how to boot one from tape?
Copy a DEC bootstrap
to the MSP disk and pray it considers one of the SCSI drives as a
supported drive?
Since DEC never supported SCSI hardware (that was done independently by SC and
XKL at different times for different hardware), that's never going to work.
I don't have an SC install manual, so I can't begin to guess how to boot from
tape. Sorry.
Rich
Rich Alderson
Vintage Computing Sr. Systems Engineer
Living Computer Museum
2245 1st Avenue S
Seattle, WA 98134
mailto:RichA at LivingComputerMuseum.org
http://www.LivingComputerMuseum.org/
12:23 a.m.
On Sat, 18 Apr 2015, Rich Alderson wrote:
Ahhhhh, thanks a lot! That's a MAJOR help!
I've heard (from Peter Lthberg that they're emulated (in certain
situations?) as massbus disks.
I assume you
want me to look at FILDDT on the images copied to a TOPS-10
system, correct, or is there a quick shortcut to FILDDT for a device?
Device-direct I/O is available under FILDDT. Do it from the console login so
that you're properly 1,2. If you run FILDDT and type /H to its prompt, you
will see what the options are. Basically, you want something like RPA0:/U to
start, and remember to multiply every sector number by 200 (octal) to get the
disk address right. The HOM blocks are sectors 1 and 12, so their addresses
are 200 and 2400 respectively.
Happen to have
any idea how to boot one from tape? Copy a DEC bootstrap
to the MSP disk and pray it considers one of the SCSI drives as a
supported drive?
Since DEC never supported SCSI hardware (that was done independently by SC and
XKL at different times for different hardware), that's never going to work.
I don't have an SC install manual, so I can't
begin to guess how to boot from
tape. Sorry.
Alright, thanks.
I have something much more helpful right now. ;)
CompuServe KHK296 (built 2:19:37 PM Wednesday, January 22, 2003 in
[340,105]
Let's hope there's sources in [340,105]!
Rich
Rich Alderson
Vintage Computing Sr. Systems Engineer
Living Computer Museum
2245 1st Avenue S
Seattle, WA 98134
mailto:RichA at LivingComputerMuseum.org
http://www.LivingComputerMuseum.org/
--
Cory Smelosky
http://gewt.net Personal stuff
http://gimme-sympathy.org Projects
1:36 a.m.
From: Cory Smelosky
Sent: Friday, April 17, 2015 5:24 PM
On Sat, 18 Apr 2015, Rich Alderson wrote:
>> Happen to have any idea how to boot one from
tape? Copy a DEC bootstrap
>> to the MSP disk and pray it considers one of the SCSI drives as a
>> supported drive?
> Since DEC never supported SCSI hardware (that was
done independently by SC and
> XKL at different times for different hardware), that's never going to work.
I've heard (from Peter Lthberg that they're
emulated (in certain situations?)
as massbus disks.
I was wrong about SC, BTW. That work was done internally at CI$. (I was told
this by the gent who oversaw the conversion from KLs to 40s.) Whether they
emulate Massbus at some point, I cannot say.
If Peter is talking about XKL, I'm sorry but he's dead wrong. I can say that
with complete certainty since I worked for XKL when the Toad-1 was built, did
some of the monitor development myself, and have managed Toad systems as part
of my daily living for the last 20 years. The SCSI interface created by XKL
(specifically by Dr. Wayne Lichtenberger, of Illiac and AlohaNet and Cisco's
CSC-3 processor board fame) is sui generis, and the code for it in TOPS-20 is
likewise.
Rich
P.S. Peter is an old friend. Say hello for me next time you talk to him.
Rich Alderson
Vintage Computing Sr. Systems Engineer
Living Computer Museum
2245 1st Avenue S
Seattle, WA 98134
mailto:RichA at LivingComputerMuseum.org
http://www.LivingComputerMuseum.org/
1:42 a.m.
On Sat, 18 Apr 2015, Rich Alderson wrote:
Ahhhh.
I see "RH" all over the place...so it's plausible.
I've heard
(from Peter Lthberg that they're emulated (in certain situations?)
as massbus disks.
I was wrong about SC, BTW. That work was done internally at CI$. (I was told
this by the gent who oversaw the conversion from KLs to 40s.) Whether they
emulate Massbus at some point, I cannot say.
If Peter is talking about XKL, I'm sorry but
he's dead wrong. I can say that
with complete certainty since I worked for XKL when the Toad-1 was built, did
some of the monitor development myself, and have managed Toad systems as part
of my daily living for the last 20 years. The SCSI interface created by XKL
(specifically by Dr. Wayne Lichtenberger, of Illiac and AlohaNet and Cisco's
CSC-3 processor board fame) is sui generis, and the code for it in TOPS-20 is
likewise.
He was talking about SC.
Rich
P.S. Peter is an old friend. Say hello for me next time you talk to him.
Will do - he's the only one I know who understands the SC-40. ;)
Rich Alderson
Vintage Computing Sr. Systems Engineer
Living Computer Museum
2245 1st Avenue S
Seattle, WA 98134
mailto:RichA at LivingComputerMuseum.org
http://www.LivingComputerMuseum.org/
--
Cory Smelosky
http://gewt.net Personal stuff
http://gimme-sympathy.org Projects
3614
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