27 Jul
2000
27 Jul
'00
1:12 a.m.
As you can see, there's ample opportunity for lots
of work.
When you're done, however, you still have a fixed-frequency monitor,
though a nice one, and need another monitor and an A/B switch box
to switch the signal to the multisync monitor for text and other uses.
Like I said . . . it's a pain in the gluteus maximus.
A pretty decent 20" Sylvania multisync monitor with
really bright and sharp, as well as linear, image costs $279
at Costco.
Thanks for that, but TBH it's not worth the effort. I've got schematics for
an SVGA-5 BNC box that I might build sometime, but before I even do that
I've got to sort the monitor itself out.
a
27 Jul
27 Jul
7:36 a.m.
You'll find that MANY of the 19" monitors are optimized for odd formats.
This is particularly true of DEC monitors. In fact, DEC seemingly made
certain their monitors would be totally useless for anything other than
their intended application by choosing some odd geometries e.g. 1152x831,
and the like, and by using very strange sync combinations and wierd
front-porch/back-porch timing.
I have invested a great deal of effort into attempting to adapt various
surplus fixed-frequency monitors to PC-use, and, under the best of
circumstances, found only one, out of the dozen or so combinations of
adapter card and monitor that I tried out, could be made to work adequately.
The card was a Photon board with a customized BIOS ROM that made it work OK
with a SONY GDM 1950, which is a very common and popular model, but some of
their other attempts at setting the BIOS parameters to work as a
general-purpose monitor tended to interfere with other functions, e.g. tape
drive, mouse, etc.
I've concluded that the best thing to do with a fixed-frequency monitor
that's not made for your particular application is to give it away or toss
it.
Dick
----- Original Message -----
From: Adrian Graham <agraham(a)ccat.co.uk>
To: <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org>
Sent: Thursday, July 27, 2000 4:12 AM
Subject: RE: Back to the A1097C monitor again
for
As you can
see, there's ample opportunity for lots of work.
When you're done, however, you still have a fixed-frequency monitor,
though a nice one, and need another monitor and an A/B switch box
to switch the signal to the multisync monitor for text and other uses.
Like I said . . . it's a pain in the gluteus maximus.
A pretty decent 20" Sylvania multisync monitor with
really bright and sharp, as well as linear, image costs $279
at Costco.
Thanks for that, but TBH it's not worth the effort. I've got schematics
an SVGA-5 BNC box that I might build sometime, but
before I even do that
I've got to sort the monitor itself out.
a
9:46 a.m.
You'll find that MANY of the 19" monitors are
optimized for odd formats.
This is particularly true of DEC monitors. In fact, DEC seemingly made
certain their monitors would be totally useless for anything other than
their intended application by choosing some odd geometries e.g. 1152x831,
The idea is that you have to use a REAL DEC monitor on DEC, not that you
can't use it on other stuff (which they could give a rat's rear about).
The card was a Photon board with a customized BIOS ROM
that made it work OK
Macs are way easier to get working with the weird monitors. For the PC I
have heard good things about the Matrox Mellenium G200 cards, which I
"think" are highly programmable. The real catch with the PC is supporting
the DOS startup modes at some faked variation of 640x480.
9:46 a.m.
What I always used as a guage of whether or not it was worth "investing" in
a given monitor was the combined cost of a card capable of driving them in
the desired mode and the cost of the monitor and whatever other equipment
A/B-switch, extra cables, extra monitor, extra desk space, etc. ) came in
at less than half what the cost of a then-current comparable PC-compatible
monitor would cost, taking into consideration that the source workstation or
VAX was being discarded because it didn't meet some other need.
At the time I did most of this stuff, a NEC 5D (the typical PC-compatible
19" monitor) cost about $2k so that left some wiggle room. Nowadays, the
combined cost and nuissance of making this type of mod would require that
one get $2k along with the monitor just for hauling it away. I've yet to
see an adapter that will adapt the random fixed-frequency monitor to a PC in
all the commonly used modes, yet doesn't cost nearly a K-$. There are a few
that "sorta" work, but I don't want that kind of trouble.
As for the MAC being easier to adapt to the random fixed-frequency monitor,
that may be easier, but since, at the time this was of some economic
interest, there was no software at all offered for the MAC that would do
what I figured I wanted at the time, and since the typical mac was
MONOCHROME only, It wouldn't have helped to have one. Aside from that, the
typical mono MAC cost more than a fully loaded PC with a beautiful new 19"
Multisync monitor.
Dick
----- Original Message -----
From: Mike Ford <mikeford(a)socal.rr.com>
To: <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org>
Sent: Thursday, July 27, 2000 12:46 PM
Subject: Re: Back to the A1097C monitor again
OK
You'll find
that MANY of the 19" monitors are optimized for odd formats.
This is particularly true of DEC monitors. In fact, DEC seemingly made
certain their monitors would be totally useless for anything other than
their intended application by choosing some odd geometries e.g. 1152x831,
The idea is that you have to use a REAL DEC monitor on DEC, not that you
can't use it on other stuff (which they could give a rat's rear about).
>The card was a Photon board with a customized BIOS ROM that made it work
Macs are way easier to get working with the weird monitors. For the PC I
have heard good things about the Matrox Mellenium G200 cards, which I
"think" are highly programmable. The real catch with the PC is supporting
the DOS startup modes at some faked variation of 640x480.
1:35 p.m.
>You'll find that MANY of the 19" monitors
are optimized for odd formats.
>This is particularly true of DEC monitors. In fact, DEC seemingly made
>certain their monitors would be totally useless for anything other than
>their intended application by choosing some odd geometries e.g. 1152x831,
Sun's like 1152x864 so it is probably about the same sync rate.
Bill
--
bpechter(a)monmouth.com | Microsoft: Where do you want to go today?
| Linux: Where do you want to go tomorrow?
| BSD: Are you guys coming, or what?
2:18 p.m.
My experience with adapting DEC monitors has shown that, unlike their SUN,
Appollo, or even HP, comparables, they tend to insist on features not
documented clearly, and not obvious to the casual onlooker, even with 'scope
in hand, such as ongoing inverted horizontal sync (like the NTSC-standard
"serrations" ) during vertical sync. Most PC video adapters could but
don't
produce this signalling option. Odd front and back porch timings are
another hazard in using DEC monitors for non-DEC applications.
I gave away three monitors from DEC equipment I was forced to bring in house
for DEC-related work, which were no longer needed. This didn't bother me
since I was paid for them, but it still irritates me that these otherwise
nice monitors were useless in a now-preferable environment.
I still have two of the once-popular Vectrix "PEPE" video adapters, dating
back to the days when fixed-frequency mmonitors were the only ones capable
of serving up the high-density formats now commonly used.
These were WELL over $1k when on the market. Though they were designed,
together with a specific set of drivers, for use with a particular PHILIPS
monitor actually designed for DEC, due to the fact that there were
differences between similar models of DEC monitors that were subtle, but
significant enough that two apparently identical (from the outside)
monitors, intended for the same application, and working fine in that
application, didn't both work on the same PC adapter. That's VERY
frustrating. I don't have any DEC equipment any more, and, God be thanked,
I'll not have to deal with such oddities again.
Dick
----- Original Message -----
From: Bill Pechter <pechter(a)pechter.dyndns.org>
To: <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org>
Sent: Thursday, July 27, 2000 4:35 PM
Subject: Re: Back to the A1097C monitor again
> >You'll find that MANY of the 19"
monitors are optimized for odd
formats.
> >This is particularly true of DEC monitors.
In fact, DEC seemingly made
> >certain their monitors would be totally useless for anything other than
> >their intended application by choosing some odd geometries e.g.
1152x831,
Sun's like 1152x864 so it is probably about the same sync rate.
Bill
--
bpechter(a)monmouth.com | Microsoft: Where do you want to go today?
| Linux: Where do you want to go
tomorrow?
| BSD: Are you
guys coming, or what?
8762
days inactive
8762
days old
5 comments
4 participants
participants (4)
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agraham＠ccat.co.uk -
mikeford＠socal.rr.com -
pechter＠pechter.dyndns.org -
richard＠idcomm.com